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Is God Just One Person

I am oneness and have a trinitarian friend. What are some good arguments for oneness? How do I show him that there is not three persons, God is just one.

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Our Father is Spirit.
---duke on 12/16/07


1st cliff. PS. "there's three persons but no they are one person, but not exactly one but three distinct and seprate but really only one!" Thats not the correct interperation of it!.
---Ramon on 8/1/07


God is one in Three persons, just as an egg is one with three parts (shell, yoke, white). There are NO good arguments for oneness, it IS AGAINST the Bible!
---Leslie on 12/31/06


Cliff I know I have asked you questions about Believers being in Heaven and you came back with your "That is Symbolic" answer on more than one occasion.
Are you now saying you believe the Bible or do you still reject the most part of it?
Now here you go again adding to Scripture.
John 15:16 is speaking of bringing forth fruit not being co-rulers.
This is God choosing for service.
Now you put your twist on what "fruit" means.
---Elder on 2/28/06


Elder ;You know very well I never said NO Christians go to heaven. Jesus "chooses" who goes with Him.(JN.15.16) "You did not choose me, I chose you" Dan.7.10 says there are 100 million angels already in heaven, He did not create earth for the purpose of populating heaven! The "chosen" ones are there for a specific purpose.To co-rule as kings and priests Rev.20.6&7.
---1st_cliff on 2/27/06




Thanks Elder, so WHO are the meek that will inherit the earth?
---M.A. on 2/27/06


MA, Cliff has said there is no Heaven for the believer at death. He states only God is in Heaven and the meek will inherit the earth, which they will. From Acts 2 till the Rapture WE are the Church. The Church is the Bride of Christ. Rev 21:9 introduces the Bride, the Lamb's wife.
In Rev 22:17 the Spirit and the Bride invite others to the water of life. We are the Bride. Where the Bridegroom is we shall be. He abides with the Father in Heaven so shall we the Church/Bride.
---Elder on 2/27/06


Mikefl."I must admit I still believe in One God.). :)". They is ONE God, but in 3 distinct persons or spirits. In the bible we know that the "father" is God, and the "Son" is God, and the "Holy spirit" is God. However we also notice that the bible tells us that all 3 are Distinct from each other.
---Ramon on 2/26/06


1stCliff, thanks for the scripture. It gives me something to think on an study further. I appreciate sharing and learning here from all who participate. (I must admit I still believe in One God.). :)
---mikefl on 2/26/06


I started a couple blogs, one about John 3:16 a new heaven and new earth, and the other about the grave and hell.
---Ulrika on 2/26/06




Elder do you not believe that you will inherit the new earth. Isn't this what Revelation 21 is telling us about? I'm not certain that I have understood what you have been saying to Cliff on this subject.
---M.A. on 2/26/06


Elder; When God purposes to do something He dosen't change His mind! Rituals change. Maybe you can fill us in on who the 2nd class "Meek" are? Kik satan out of heaven and you have a "new heavens" Rid the earth of wickedness and you have a "new earth" You don't need to be a bible scholer to figure that out! There's nothing wrong with this planet that a little enviromental adjustment won't fix,and He can do that!
---1st_cliff on 2/26/06


Cliff must everything you say have the cliffie twist put on it. First New Testaments Believers are the Church not the Meek. We are the Bride of Christ. Next if your posted comment of God never changing means exactly what you say then why are we not going to the Priest and offering animal sacrifices.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 2/26/06


Cond #2-->
If He never changes as you say is there going to be a new heaven and earth or not? It is His Holiness and attributes that never change. The dispensations do and have changed. You cannot understand the whole without understanding the parts. You reject so many parts of Scripture that you cannot understand the whole. You must realize that you have not arrived yet. Your refusel to learn proves that.
---Elder on 2/26/06


Elder; Too bad if I am?? No I love this planet and everything in it that God created for man. He "loved it so much that He gave His only begotten Son...that we might not perrish" (Jn.3.16) You're wrong if you think God has changed His mind about Eden. Mal.3.6 "I the Lord do not change". Isa.55.11."So is My word that goes out from My mouth; it will not return to me empty,but will accomplish that which I desire, and achieve the purpose for which I sent it".
---1st_cliff on 2/25/06


1st cliff. P.S. Ramon "So when he talks about rapture...I "personally" have doubts" What are you having doubts. The concept of the Rapture is clearly taught in Scriptures. Now where is the doubts? Are you saying that you dont know wither to believe scriptures or not? Again you say you follow YHWH, but you in doubt in some area of the bible. Where the doubts? why you dont believe it, its in scriptures.
---Ramon on 2/25/06


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1st cliff. God cast adam/eve out. So they abtain a lifespan. where they at now?. My question is why the bible contradict your beliefs? You dont belive in the Trininty. You reject that believers go to heaven, and that unsave people will burn in hell. You say you follow YHWH, but then again you reject the teachings of the bible. You in doubt about the rapture, how? IS in the bible. You say you follow YHWH?
---Ramon on 2/25/06


Cliff with your much learning, knowledge and intellect I would have thought you already knew these things.
Now all you have to figure out is who is the US?
You are right I am not one of the Meek that inherits the Earth. You might be. Time will tell. Too bad if you are.
It all goes back to believing the Bible but it doesn't make much sence to say that to you does it?
---Elder on 2/25/06


Mike; You need to read Matt.12.31. "Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven but blasphemy against the Spirit will not...32.Anyone who speaks a word aginst the Son of man WILL be forgiven, BUT anyone who speaks aginst the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come".
---1st_cliff on 2/25/06


1stCliff, what says you can blaspheme Part one and two but not part three. Since I believe there is but One God, I see only one. There is no separation. IF God was in three parts then each part would have to be 100% equal, anything less would not be God. Anything more would be THE God. Then to be equal but separate would absolutely mean three equal Gods. Read John 14:16 & 18. Jesus IS the H.G. vs 9 Jesus IS the Father.
---mikefl on 2/25/06


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Elder; Your consistency is "inconsistent". If all 3 are the same then blasphemy against any one of them would be against all 3! "Jesus cannot forgive this sin?" (scripture please). The earth will not be inhabited by US? wow who do we think we are? Of course there will be "much people in heaven" but not everyone! You're obviously not one of the "meek"Psl.37.29 "the righteous will inherit the LAND and dwell therein forever".You follow Paul,I'll follow YHWH.
---1st_cliff on 2/24/06


Ramon; When Adam was created the only mention of death was "if" he disobeyed. Had he not disobeyed he would/could still be alive!There was no reason to die exept for that sin. Every day we loose millions of body cells,millions of new ones are made.So over the course of 7 years the body is completely renewed! Losing more than we gain causes old age and death. Not so when the "curse" is lifted!Rev.21.4.
---1st_cliff on 2/24/06


1st Cliff, Why don't you start at blog about is the grave hell?
---Ulrika on 2/24/06


People, Cliff rejects half of the New Testament. Is it any wonder that he doesn't understand?
Point.. Using Cliff's "figure it out for yourself format."
Cliff asked, "If all 3 are the same person, why is it that blasphemy against the Father and Son are forgivable but against the holy Spirit is not? (You said Jesus is the Comforter,Holy Spirit) Where's the consistancy?"
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 2/23/06


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Cond #2-->
Here is the consistency!
Jesus died to forgive sin but He cannot forgive this sin. If He were separate He could. As one Blasphemes the Holy Spirit he also does the Father and Son. The reason it is this way is because it is the Holy Spirit that calls the sinner to repentance.
Next, this earth will be inhabited but it will not be by us.
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 2/23/06


Cond #3--->
Who is that MUCH PEOPLE in Heaven in Rev 19:1?
Who is the one adorned as a Bride for her Bridegroom that comes.
Who is that Bride in Rev 19?
Someone else will have to answer these question because Cliff can't. He doesn't accept the Scriptures by his own admission.
---Elder on 2/23/06


1st cliff. Answer me this. If you say that the believers don't go to heaven, why then the bible contradict your belief?
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff.1. Some demons are bound.
2. Others are free, as Matthew 12:22; 17:14-18; and Acts 16:16-18 show.
3. Some demons were free, but were afraid of being bound by Jesus words in Luke 8:28-32
---Ramon on 2/23/06


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1st cliff. The clear teaching of the Bible is that all people whether they are saved or lost will spend eternity someplace whether it be heaven or hell. So if we go to either heaven or hell after we die, would that make of soul immortal? Of course!.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff. Tell me this. Didnt God know we will die? We cant live on earth all our life, we will die soon. If earth will be the "only" place we will live, would we ever die? But we do. All of us will soon die. What happends afterwards its our choice. If the earth (right now) be the "only" place God wanted to us to live, then we never die. But we have choice after death. Either go to Heaven or be burn in the lake of fire. Thats what we must decide here on earth.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


..#2 here's a little test for you. Find a scripture with the word "grave" in it,then look up the Heb. or Gr.word it's translated from..may surprise you! When Jesus died they laid Him in the tomb (grave -hell) Act.2.27.
---1st_cliff on 2/23/06


Ramon;Think about this..fundamentalists (for want of a better term) like to paint a picture of hell burning with people screaming in pain and the devil with his pichfork stoking the fires etc..but you know what? the devil and his angels go to a different "hell"2Pet.2.4 says they go to "tartarus" (hell) a place of dense darkness!Have you ever seen dense darkness where there's a fire? It's not hades or sheol!..cont
---1st_cliff on 2/23/06


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Mike; Can you answer me one question? If all 3 are the same person, why is it that blasphemy against the Father and Son are forgivable but against the holy Spirit is not? (You said Jesus is the Comforter,Holy Spirit) Where's the consistancy?
---1st_cliff on 2/23/06


Ramon; I never suggested that hell (hades,sheol) dosen't exist.it does,it's the common grave of mankind. The fire is in gehenna, used figuratively by Jesus.It was litteraly a garbage dump outside Jerusalem kept burning with sulfur. The trash that didn't make it to the fire was eaten by worms on the ledges. Criminals who were thought not to have a resurrection were also dumped there! Giving this a "literal" interpretation defames God!
---1st_cliff on 2/23/06


Ramon,Ulrika; Are they God's words or something I dreamed up? (there are many more) Ramon; not one of those scriptures you cited says the soul is immortal! (do you know the difference between soul and spirit?)
---1st_cliff on 2/23/06


Ulrika &Ramon;Let's just suppose you're right (for the sake of argument) The saved go to heaven the dammed go to hell; What purpose does the earth serve? Isa.45.18 "God formed the earth to be inhabited"Eccl.1.4 generations come and generations go and the earth remains forever"Isa .66.1. Heaven is My throne the earth is My footstool" Psl.24.1 "the earth is the Lord's and everything in it"Mat.5.5."blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth"
---1st_cliff on 2/23/06


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1st cliff. But like ulrika said ruling with christ is a different subject. But i cant understand why will you reject that we go to heaven? the bible said so. ITS CLEAR.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff. The bible makes it clear that belivers go to heaven. Non-believers go to hell. Thats the real deal. No 'what if' or buts. There no 'soul sleep'. Also you cant reject what paul saids. Its in the bible. Our souls dont die, it either go to heaven or to hell. God is not curel God. He give us many chances, but we choose not to listen to God. We make the ERROR in not believing. Hell exists. The lake of fire exist.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st Cliff, You said, people do not go to heaven. I gave you verses to show, believers do go to heaven. Ruling with Christ, is a different subject. Paul's books do not contradict the Gospels and Jesus' words. You contradict the Gospels and Jesus' words, when you try to prove Paul's writings wrong, like when you said people do not go to heaven.
---Ulrika on 2/23/06


Lisa, etc. Oneness Pentecostalism denies the essential Christian doctrine & Bible model of the Trinity. The belief in one God, but manifested at different stages/times in "three" different ways, i.e., the Father in creation, the Son in redemption & the Holy Spirit in regeneration, is a view called modalism. Modalism is heresy!

The Bible shows God (the Godhead) -- to believers -- as three distinct persons, God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit, aka The Trinity.
---Leon on 2/23/06


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1st cliff.The word paradise is used as a synonym for Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7). What we do know for sure is that there has always been a separation of believers and unbelievers (Luke 16:19-31). The righteous have always gone to paradise, the wicked have always gone to Hell (Hades). Believers go to heaven, and unbelievers go to hell!. No there soemthing else that need to be told. But i wait till you respond to my post And Ulrika. Ulrika made a good point. God bless.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff. The last of the righteous are raised to reign with Christ a thousand years (Revelation 20:4), but the rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished (Revelation 20:5).
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff.The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus teaching of the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).he event which divides the first and second resurrections seems to be the millennial kingdom.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff.Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God prior to being cast into the lake of fire.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


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1st cliff.
Revelation 20:4-6 mentions a first resurrection and identifies those involved as blessed and holy. The second death (the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus teaching of the resurrection of the just (Luke 14:14) and the resurrection of life (John 5:29).
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff. At some point after death, unbelievers will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people - based entirely on whether a person had trusted Jesus Christ alone for the salvation of their sins.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff.the Bible tells us that after the moment of death, a person is taken to Heaven or Hell based on whether he or she had received Christ as his or her Savior. For believers, after death is to be absent from the body and present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, after death means everlasting punishment in Hell (Luke 16:22-23).
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff.The clear teaching of the Bible is that all people whether they are saved or lost will spend eternity someplace whether it be heaven or hell.True life or spiritual life does not cease when our fleshly bodies pass away in death. Our souls will live forever either in the presence of God in heaven if we are saved or in punishment in hell if we reject Gods gift of salvation. HELL EXIST. And peoplewill go there.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


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1st cliff. Also Daniel 12:2 says that those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. Jesus Himself even said that the wicked will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:46).
---Ramon on 2/23/06


1st cliff.Without a doubt the human soul is immortal. This is clearly seen in countless verses in both the Old and New Testaments including Psalm 22:26; Psalm 23:6; Psalm 49:7-9; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Daniel 12:2-3; Matthew 25:46; 1 Corinthians 15:12-19 and many other verses. One such verse is Ecclesiastes 12:7, which declares, Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
---Ramon on 2/23/06


Ulrika; If it was God's plan from the beginning,a place would have already been "prepared" but as in Jn.14.2. He had to go and prepare it! A Kingdom is a king and subjects. Whether one lives in heaven or on earth they are still part of that kingdom. It is ruled from heaven.If you are "chosen" to rule with Him it's His choice not yours.Mat. 22.14 Rev.17.14.Mk.13.27.
---1st_cliff on 2/23/06


beeeeeep. May I interupt to answer question. Understanding who God is takes personal revelation. Trinity is an easy answer. I don't know how it works "it's a mystery". I believe Jesus=God in the flesh. God is spirit. Jesus is our Comforter (Holy Ghost). The spirit of God/Jesus/H.G. is in you. All these are scripture. I believe in 1 God using 3 offices. The Father of the O.T.=the Jesus of the N.T.=the Holy Ghost today. The same yesterday and today and forever. Amen.
---mikefl on 2/22/06


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Cliff I only go by what you say and don't say.
If you reject Paul do you accept those such as Luke and John who accepted him? Which cult teaching are you bringing in this time the Jws or Mormons? The parts you "accept" you prevert and twist.
---Elder on 2/22/06


1st cliff. What? What? What? You got to be joking right? Ok let me explain to you what scripture saids.See if you can explain these verses.
---Ramon on 2/22/06


1st Cliff, If the saved do not go to heaven, as you say, explain these verses. John 14:2 Matthew 5:3,10,12,19,20 \ 7:21 \ 18:3,4 John 14:2
I realize there will be the millennium (thousand years reign of Christ).
---Ulrika on 2/22/06


#3. God spent thousands of years preparing this beautiful planet as home for humans,everything is condusive to long life here,but the curse of death spoiled it . that's why it was necessary for Christ to come and die and buy back life (eternal) for us. Heaven is not your "home" earth is! The promise is for the dead to resurrect back to life. Death need not be permanent! That's salvation!Thanks to our Lord Jesus.
---1st_cliff on 2/22/06


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cont#2 Paul was a Pharisee,top of his class, any bible dictionary (even the NIV footnotes) say that Parisees believed in immortality of the soul. Ez.18.4 is only one of many scriptures that says "definately" the soul dies! So when he talks about rapture...I "personally" have doubts. Hab.2.14 says theEarth" will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord,as the waters cover the seas Psl. 115.16 The heavens belong to the Lord the "earth" He has given to man"..cont.
---1st_cliff on 2/22/06


Ramon; Soul is mentioned more than 800 times in the bible,not once does it say "immortal,deathless or never dieing!" Rev.20.6.Says some Christians will rule with Christ, as kings and priests, but blessed are the meek for they will inherit "the earth". The lake of fire is "figurative" for God to literally burn humans in a fire would make Him a Cruel God not one of Mercy! cont.
---1st_cliff on 2/22/06


1st cliff.CONT. Questions im going to ask you in belief of heaven. 1. Do you believe "Christian" who go to heaven? 2. Do you believe that a person who is unsave will burn in the lake of fire? 3. Do you believe our second home after we died is heaven? 4. Do you believe in the sound doctrine of the Rapture of the Church? You said "God made it plain that the earth was to be man's home,fill it subdue it, etc.. no promise of a heavenly life." Thats why im asking.
---Ramon on 2/21/06


1st cliff. No problem. "They believe the soul is immortal and the only "scripture" that says so is in the Book of Morman Alma 42.9." Why are you talking about the Book of Mormen for? You don't believe in the sound doctrine that our soul is immortal? Why you say "only" they are countless verses that said so.
---Ramon on 2/21/06


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Cliff ... you still don't stick YOUR colours to the mast!! What DO you believe?
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/21/06


Ramon; Sorry, will you ask it again. I've been so busy fending off these firey missles that I lost track. Elder; Paul didn't write the whole bible. So I question 12/13 out of 66 . Actually people didn't have "access" to scripture. If you had a question you had to ask a Rabbi! The common people were illiterate! Bibles didn't become available 'till the invention of the printing press! Hadwritten copies were Few! Illiteracy is still a problem!
---1st_cliff on 2/21/06


1st cliff. Why have you not answer the questions i ask you before?
---Ramon on 2/21/06


Cliff the idea that you reject the Bible is from your own statements. You have said you reject the writings of Paul were you lying then or now? You have posted continually doubt on the Scriptures. You say when Jesus sent out His disciples the Scriptures were rolled up somewhere else. Copies may have been but the Bible does not teach they had no access to them. Your refusal to debate any group but Bible believers betrays you. But then again you embrace so much of cultic teaching why would you?
---Elder on 2/21/06


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So Cliff, the original plan of God is fantastic. What do you reckon that original plan was? How was Jesus part of it?
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/21/06


Yah Cliff when you fly 1 degree off course and broadcast Mayday, Mayday, Mayday instead of Pan, Pan, Pan, Pan someone is going to correct you some where. At least you have admitted you are tearing down. What are you going to rebuild with since you don't believe the Bible? What are you compairing truth to?
---Elder on 2/20/06


Elder; Where do you get the idea that I "reject" the bible? I stated a fact (you can't deny) that in 33 AD Jesus sent the evangelists into "all nations" without the NT. (fact) In fact they never had "bibles'(fact) How is that translated into "rejecting the bible?" How did the truth survive thousands of years without "bibles?" The scriptures were rolled up in scrolls in Synagogues. (fact) The answer lies in the parable of the rich man and Lazerus! Surprised?
---1st_cliff on 2/20/06


Readers how can anyone reject the New Testament and then tell you what you should do? If the NT is wrong where is the authority to change you? What will cause your life to be Christ like if the Bible is rejected?
---Elder on 2/20/06


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Alan; You make a good point here, as I've said before, (as a construction contractor) that sometimes one has to tear down the old before he can re-build. I have a hard time getting past the "tear down". The original plan of God is fantastic, easy to understand and most of all "logical" You know logos and logic share the same root word. If you fly 1 degree off course for a thousand miles , at your eta you will be hopelessly lost.
---1st_cliff on 2/20/06


Cliff so all of those who "go with the flow" of the Bible should come running to you for Truth when you have indicated and said you don't believe Paul and most of the New Testament. Do you know what the Church is? In your words please tell us. The thing is I do know what you are about. You can't distinguish between the human side and Deity of Jesus and refuse to try. You have rolled about 7 different cult beliefs into one so that even you don't know what you are.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 2/20/06


Cond #2-->
Tell me if you are so concerned about what people believe what have you taught them?
One thing you have tried hard to do is to teach the Bible cannot be trusted.
Tell us do you trust Paul's writing?
Satan runs around and is concerned what people believe also.
You have defended the Cults and condemned the Church. Why? You have never answered that question.
---Elder on 2/20/06


Cliff ... you have challenging approach to ingrained beliefs, and that is right to do that, because even "bible-believing" Christians have some human traditions, and also to be challenged about our faith will strengthen it.
But the fact that they are ingrained does not mean they are wrong, as you seem to imply. You do come across as destructive, because you offer nothing in place of the things you deny.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/20/06


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#2 So what looks like negativism and christian bashing is really an attempt to get you to take notice of the direction you're headed. It's not where you think! Jesus didn't say the path is narrow and FEW there be that find it for nothing.(Mat.7.14) He knew they would stray! Also to others (Mat.7.22,23)Who say "what wonderful things they've done in His name..get away from me I don't know you at all" If you think the church is on the stright and narrow you have your head on the sand.
---1st_cliff on 2/20/06


Elder; It's surprising that after all this time you still don't know what I'm about. Let me simplify it. Before Christ left the earth he was more concerned about the "flock" than He was about cults and pagans. The warnings were for His disciples IE "watch out!" Since you "gomwith the flow" you don't see how far off the mark the "church " has strayed!
---1st_cliff on 2/20/06


Ann do not take an attitude with this thing. I do not mind being questioned or corrected about any of my statements.
Your comments are always welcomed along with anyone else's. But don't forget I will respond to my position as well.
You will find that I don't make statements about the Bible that I am not sure of.
---Elder on 2/20/06


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