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Christ Against Organized Churches

If Christ was against the organized church of his day, and we know he was, would Christ be against the organized denominational churches of this day?

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 ---mima on 2/16/06
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//---aka on 5/5/12//

Wow...Understood-

Amen Brother.
---char on 5/6/12

aka....char you both said well. You two bring me some peace through your careful study and thought.
Reminded me of another careful selection of stones.
1 Samuel 17:40
And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in a shepherd's bag which he had, even in a scrip, and his sling was in his hand: and he drew near to the Philistine.
---trav on 5/25/12


Can a person be a christian without belonging to a worldly denominational church?
---Steveng on 4/25/12
My master is not billy g or creflo $$$, or a aging Kiwi racer. Here is hoping your's is not either.
I personally want to just attain being a forgiven christian worthy of the work tag.
I do not a$pire to be a denom worthy of the denom. Which gain$ me member$hip but, nothing else. Wa$te of work time.
A worthy working Christian on the other hand....
---Trav on 5/25/12


//---aka on 5/5/12//

Wow...Understood-

Amen Brother.
---char on 5/6/12


Someone else said this:

But too often I hear people (in every Christian tradition) say "This church isn't _____ enough for me." Are you looking for _____, or are you looking for the Risen Lord?

Seek the Lord, and you will find what you are looking for. It may be that God will grant you eyes to see where you are in a new light, or it may be that God will lead you elsewhere.

And the Church is filled with humans, fallible, mistaken, arrogant, beautiful, and glorious.
---Cluny on 5/5/12


that Rock was Christ
---char on 5/5/12

Amen
---michaei_e on 5/5/12

the "Rock" denied the Christ three times after Peter declared, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Peter was eating with the Gentiles and hiding it from the Jews after the Holy Spirit came upon him.

Jesus, the Son of the living God, put God's church upon a fallible man's shoulders.

pick your rock wisely.
---aka on 5/5/12




that Rock was Christ
---char on 5/5/12

Amen
---michaei_e on 5/5/12


Something Elder Sophrony once said:

"There are three things I cannot take in: nondogmatic faith, nonecclesiological Christianity and nonascetic Christianity. These three - the church, dogma, and asceticism - constitute one single life for me."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/12


//The foundation, THE ROCK, of the church is Christ the son of God who was crucified for us.
---ginger on 5/5/12//

I stand in agreement-Amen.

Still rejected by many.
Matt 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Acts 4:11
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

1 Cor 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ
---char on 5/5/12


Ruben, I understand BUT
If Peter and Paul are telling us that CHRIST is the ROCK that the church is built upon, then I believe them, not the pope, or someone else. Peter was there.
I believe what he says and he never says he is the rock the church is built upon. He says CHRIST IS.
He obviously knew what Christ was telling him. HE KNEW, and told so why do you ignore it?
You try to make one scripture fit, when it does not.
The foundation, THE ROCK, of the church is Christ the son of God who was crucified for us.
---ginger on 5/5/12


Ruben, are you catholic?
---Rob on 5/5/12




1 CORINTHIAINS - NOW I beseech you, brethren by the name of our LORD Jesus Christ, that ye speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you,but that ye be perfectly joined together in same mind and in the same judgment.
---RICHARDC on 5/5/12


Samuel* The Bible is written in Greek and does use the word Cephas but not in the passage being quoted. About the church being built on the Rock.

Did Jesus change Simon name to Cephas? (1:42) Y or N? Does Cephas mean Rock y Or N?

Yet, that is the type of desperate attempt that non-Catholics must make to somehow diregard Jesus words of builting his Church on the Rock of Peter!

Samuel* We are not saved by Peter we are saved by JESUS CHRIST.
He is the one who counts.

Never said anything about being saved by Peter, you are getting desperate:)

Samuel* I have also read where those not from Rome opposed this

Perhaps you can give me the sources!
---Ruben on 5/5/12


Ruben: 'Why would Jesus give Peter this supremacy during his life, but not pass it on to successors?'

Here you bring a difficult question.

The keys to Heaven will only be used when the dead are raised - so no successor needs the keys now, I would say.
---Peter on 5/4/12

During Peter time were the dead raise already?
---Ruben on 5/5/12


Ruben: 'Why would Jesus give Peter this supremacy during his life, but not pass it on to successors?'

Here you bring a difficult question.

The keys to Heaven will only be used when the dead are raised - so no successor needs the keys now, I would say.
---Peter on 5/4/12


The Bible is written in Greek and does use the word Cephas but not in the passage being quoted. About the church being built on the Rock. It is used here.

1Cr 1:12,13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

We are not saved by Peter we are saved by JESUS CHRIST.
He is the one who counts.

I have read Church Fathers on the church being founded on Peter. I have also read where those not from Rome opposed this for the use that Popes made of it to make themselves rulers over others. This helped lead to the great schism.
---Samuel on 5/4/12


Ginger and Reuben: It is not important.

Yes, Petros was given the term as the rock upon which the church was to built, but also clearly Jesus had SET HIM as that rock.

So who did what is unimportant - Jesus was the motive force anyway
---Peter on 5/3/12

Peter,

But what is important, if Jesus call Peter the Rock which he will built his Church and gave Peter and only he the 'Keys' to the kingdom of Heaven, and hell will not prevail over it which he did that Church is still around today. Why would Jesus give Peter this supremacy during his life, but not pass it on to successors?
---Ruben on 5/4/12


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Peter, I agree.
That is why I tried to drop it when I told Ruben that I had done the research and he was not going to convice me that Peter is the rock that the church was built on. For him to please stop trying.

---ginger on 5/4/12

Ginger,

I was not trying anything but only answer you. When someone makes a remark like this:

///This is a false statement. ///

Then do expect a response back!

That a pretty big statement to make to just be quiet about it. FYI when someone makes a comment about the Catholic Church be assure I will jump right on in. I have been here at this site for quiet awhile and I love every minute of it, what so great about it is--We can agree to disagree:)
---Ruben on 5/4/12


Peter, I agree.
That is why I tried to drop it when I told Ruben that I had done the research and he was not going to convice me that Peter is the rock that the church was built on. For him to please stop trying.

I am sure that Ruben and I can both agree that Christ is the moving force and the head of the church which is the body of Christ.
The Church is built on the fact that we all believe Christ IS the son of God and that he died for our sins. Nothing we could ever do could have washed away our sins. Christ died and purchased us who believe on him.
---ginger on 5/4/12


ginger, you are sounding a lot like Kathr could be the reason someone else said you were the same person, the same words come out of both of you. Why not stick to Scripture. Don't put you money where your mouth is, because you will lose your soul.
---Mark_V. on 5/4/12


Ginger and Reuben: It is not important.

Yes, Petros was given the term as the rock upon which the church was to built, but also clearly Jesus had SET HIM as that rock.

So who did what is unimportant - Jesus was the motive force anyway
---Peter on 5/3/12


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Samuel* Ruben The word is Petros not cephas in the Bible for the name of Peter.

Really:

"And he brought him to Jesus.

Jesus looked at him and said, You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas (JHn 1:42)


Samuel* Also the church is built on on Petra not cephas in the original greek.

Jesus spoke in Aramic:

2786. Kephas kay-fas' of Chaldee origin (compare 3710), the Rock, Cephas (i.e. Kepha), a surname of Peter:--Cephas.

4074. Petros pet'-ros apparently a primary word, a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037), as a name, Petrus, an apostle:--Peter, rock. Compare 2786.
---Ruben on 5/3/12


Yes Ruben, I have done the research.
WHat I found was what Samuel posted. You should check it out. You might find somthing too.

Christ is THE rock the church is built upon. The truth that he is the Christ, the son of God.
Exactly what Peter revealed.
---ginger on 5/3/12


1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.


1Pe 2:7 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
---Samuel on 5/2/12

Samuel,

AMEN, on the verses:

Jesus is the foudation " For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ." ( 1 Cor 3:11) but also built his foudation on the apostles:

"built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone."

Same thing with Rock:)
---Ruben on 5/3/12


ginger* Ruben,
I have seen ALL your arguments and none of them prove Christ made Peter the rock of the church.

Then if you have done tons of research as you said you did, how did you miss the Early Church Fathers writing about Christ built his church on the Rock of Peter?

ginger* So, just give up, cause you aren't going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. (even though scripture actually sides with me)

Two things to say about your statement:

First I am not here to change anyone mind, that up to the HS.

Second, who gave you the authorithy on scripture, and no I am not mad-far from it:)
---Ruben on 5/3/12


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YES! This is why it is better to be a Chrisitan then to put a label on us that we "belong" to church "A" or "B". However fellowship is important ,but no need to seperate us.we should have a common foundation , Jesus Christ & the gospel. taking sides saying one denomination over another is better is actually harmful seperating you futher from God & his son Jesus.
---Candice on 5/2/12


Ruben,
I have seen ALL your arguments and none of them prove Christ made Peter the rock of the church.
How ever, there are TONS of scripture that says CHRIST is the rock of the church.
So, you might as well give up that argument.
Christ was refering to the revelation given by Peter, not to Peter, okay.
So, just give up, cause you aren't going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. (even though scripture actually sides with me)
---ginger on 5/2/12


Ruben The word is Petros not cephas in the Bible for the name of Peter. Also the church is built on on Petra not cephas in the original greek.

So why are you changing the words of the Bible? Also Peter said.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.


1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.


1Pe 2:7 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
---Samuel on 5/2/12


ginger* The bible is clear that CHRIST is the rock that the church is built upon.

Let's see about this : In Gospel of John 1:42 Jesus change the name of Simon to Cephas "Jesus looked at him and said, You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas ( Cephas (Aramaic)translated, is Peter/Rock . And he does it again in Matthew "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter(Cephas), and on this rock( Cephas)" he also gave Cephas the 'Key' to the kingdom of Heaven. All of the Early church Father( East and West) disagree with you and not to mention so does scripture!
---Ruben on 5/2/12


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I think you are mad cause I researched what Cluny said and I side with him.
---ginger on 5/2/12
Ginger,

Kind of a odd statement to make, why would I be mad at you because you sided with someone else? Did it seem to look that way in my response, sorry if it did.Unless you are my wife, sister or a very close friend of mind maybe. But no you and anyone where can side to whom ever they wish to..
---Ruben on 5/2/12


Jesus said in the Gospel of Matthew that he will built his Church on the Rock of Peter and that the gates of Hell will not prevail over it!
---Ruben on 5/2/12

This is a false statement. The bible is clear that CHRIST is the rock that the church is built upon. But you can continue to believe this if you want.

Many times in scripture it says this.

I think you are mad cause I researched what Cluny said and I side with him.
---ginger on 5/2/12


ginger* There were many splits and reconciliations before the great schism.

Yes they have been, the Orthodox has split off from Rome and the Catholic Church several times:

The Arian schisms (343-98),
The controversy over St. John Chrysostom (404-415),
The Acacian schism (484-519),
Concerning Monothelitism (640-681),
Concerning Iconoclasm (726-87 and 815-43).

And at each case, the East needed the West and Rome and the papacy to be ushered back to orthodoxy...



ginger* And yes Ruben, it does mean that. The infection spread from Rome to its offspring.

Jesus said in the Gospel of Matthew that he will built his Church on the Rock of Peter and that the gates of Hell will not prevail over it!
---Ruben on 5/2/12


The different Orthodox churches are administratively independent, but teach the SAME doctrine the Apostles did.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


Ware, Timothy (AKA Bishop Kallistos of Diokleia) (1997). The Orthodox Church. Penguin Books: London, England

He wrote:

Concerning contraceptives and other forms of birth control, differing opinions exist within the Orthodox Church. (pg. 296)

What does the Early Church Father teach about contraceptives and how about scriptue itself?
---Ruben on 5/2/12


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markV,
Where did you get that information from?
Cause every research I have done on the subject (which is a lot) says Rome broke away from the Eastern Church.
That is fact.
So, please give us references on where you got your idea that Eastern broke away from Rome?
Put your money where your mouth is!
---ginger on 5/2/12


Cluny, they didn't break away from you, you guys broke away from them. They are "Roman Catholic" meaning they began as the Universal Church. Then because of the shisem, you guys broke away from them. There are few differences, between the RCC and the E.O. most doctrines are the same. The same Idols and worship of Mary and saints. Salvation by works the same. confession to priest the same. Eating Jesus flesh the same, an so many more, but no pope. Since most doctrines are the same is the reason you answer for them when the doctrines are the same.
---Mark_V. on 5/2/12


Cluny, when I said a few disagreements, I was including all of the minor and the major ones. The disagreements had been going on a long time. There were many splits and reconciliations before the great schism.
I personally believe that the devil had a play in this because it should never have happened.
And yes Ruben, it does mean that. The infection spread from Rome to its offspring.
But it is a small matter truthfully when it comes down to reconciling with our brothers and sisters.
It should never have happened.
Men's pride got in the way. God was not put first or it would have never happened.
---ginger on 5/2/12


Clung. I am baptist and it describes what I believe. An independent baptist people really know what I believe. If there was not organized faiths no one would have a clue what you believe. I am not a legalistic but faithful.
---Shira4368 on 5/1/12


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Cluny:

You said: The big theological difference was Filioque, which Protestantism is infected with, having caught it from her mother Rome.

There are others, of course. Minor liturgical matters are just that.


One thing I have never been able to understand is how Filoque was ever a pivotal doctrinal matter, rather than mere choking on gnats. How does it fundamentally affect our understanding of God, Jesus, our relationship with God, etc.? What would we do differently if we believe it than if we don't? If it doesn't change any of these, why is it that important? The New Testament doesn't devote a lot of space to the subject, so none of the New Testament writers considered it important enough to elaborate on.
---StrongAxe on 5/1/12


The big theological difference was Filioque, which Protestantism is infected with, having caught it from her mother Rome.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12

Does this mean some of the Eastern Fathers were infected as well:

St. Athanasius
St. Epiphanius
St. Cyril of Alexandria
St. Maximus the Confessor
SS. Gregory of Nyssa
John of Damascus

And as well Fifth Holy Ecumenical Council !
---Ruben on 5/1/12


\\It was over quite a few differences of worship.\\

Not quite, ginger.

The big theological difference was Filioque, which Protestantism is infected with, having caught it from her mother Rome.

There are others, of course. Minor liturgical matters are just that.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


Actually MarkV, Cluny it is right.
It is called by history, The Great Schism. It happened in 1054.
It was over quite a few differences of worship.
So I would say they don't see eye to eye like Cluny claims they do.
There are differences.
I also believe that what Cluny says about the orthodox being close to what was taught by the apostles, truth.
---ginger on 5/1/12


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Wrong.

Rome broke away from us. We didn't change anything.

The different Orthodox churches are administratively independent, but teach the SAME doctrine the Apostles did.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


Cluny, your denomination is the first to break away from the Roman Catholic Church, way before the Protestant Church. And the Eastern Orthodox now has many denominations all over Europe. The last I saw there were about 13 different ones with different essentials just like the Protestant Churches.
---Mark_V. on 5/1/12


\\Who is the father of division? Denominational Churches (DC) are a product of Satan. Each DC has their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible.\\

That's why I'm Orthodox.

We are not denominational.

We are PRE-denominational.

All others broke away from us, either directly (as did Rome) or indirectly (as did Protestants).

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/12


Steveng, you continue to post falsehood. Were you hurt by a Christian church? or are you just an unlearned antiChrist soul that needs salvation?
---Eloy on 4/30/12


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Steven G, a person can be a Christian without having to join a Church. But once he gathers with other Christians to worship, no matter when they do it, or where they do it, it becomes a Church. Whether in a building, a cave, a home, or at the park. The gathering of believers make a Church. The gathering of believing Christians, no matter where they gather are not a product of satan, but a product and body of Christ, get it right.

---Mark_V. on 4/30/12


Eloy: "Steveng, Christian denominations are not from satan, nor are Christian denominations cults. Christian denominations are from Christ,.."

Who is the father of division? Denominational Churches (DC) are a product of Satan. Each DC has their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. They cause division among people. There is much bickering among churches who say they are the true church of God. There is bickering even among the people within the same denomination saying our church is better than the same church down the street. Each DC also teaches a different gospel than what was taught by the prophets of old, the apostles, and even Jesus himself. Today's christians are not one in thought.
---Steveng on 4/29/12


Can a person be a christian without belonging to a worldly denominational church?
---Steveng on 4/25/12

May i modify this statement?
Thanks
Can a person be a christian without belonging to a denominational church?
---Steveng on 4/25/12

NO
Because the Spirit has given to the " church" gifts to build up the church. If a person does not belong to a denominationsal church, how then does he use his gifts to build up the church and further the kingdom?

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers,

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
---francis on 4/27/12


Steveng, Christian denominations are not from satan, nor are Christian denominations cults. Christian denominations are from Christ, just as all things that are Christian stem from Christ. Different styles and different cultures and different flavors are not from satan, but from God. Instead of throwing your dirt on the churches of Christ, why don't you attend one, and if you cannot find a body that you like, then start your own Christian church, but dissing Christ's body is not the work of God.
---Eloy on 4/26/12


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Hello,pardon me bro.Steveng..you mention your post 4/25/12 ...churches owned by the government? Please,this ELENA...please not try'n to be funny...is that true?? How is that happen here USA?? thankyou. If you be kind answer. ELENA
---ELENA on 4/26/12


Today's denominational church isn't the same church as in the days of Jesus. Today's denominational churches are a product of Satan. The churches today divide christiandom into cults each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Plus they are owned by the government.

The true church of Christ does not have buildings, pews, furniture, statues, or any other material objects.

The true church of Christ is simply people.

Can a person be a christian without belonging to a worldly denominational church?
---Steveng on 4/25/12


Christ was not, and Christ is not, against the organized church. Instead Christ is against false churches which minister falsehood.
---Eloy on 4/25/12


hello,family,I have learned & conclusion : yes! believe there is No perfect church,thankfull still can read ,truth is take the good 'n give the other% over to God..If any man lack wisdon let him ask God. we got to read it 'n seek God's face & he help us.Believe him for who he is & believe on him,the word becomes alive when put it 'n action!Thankyou! Moderator
---ELENA on 4/24/12


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Christ will be against whatever particular error each 'organized denomination church' (or disorganized nondenominational church, for that matter).

We can look at the seven church of Asia Minor. Jesus compliments churches on some points, criticizes/condemns them on others.

Maybe He would do the same to each church now
---Peter on 10/29/11


shira, I"m sorry I took it that way. I'm glad we're in agreement!
---Chria9396 on 10/28/11


Chria9396, I was agreeing with you Chria. Didn't mean to sound different. That is a personality flaw. So sorry, God Bless You
---shira4368 on 10/28/11


Shira4368, I dont believe God is against His church either and dont believe I stated He was. I too prefer bible based, Word preached/taught/lived out with Christians loving Christians. I have seen what Elena says and I quoted, in churches with programs meant to draw, I did not say thats my preference. The Word is what truly matters. Bless you!
---Chria9396 on 10/28/11


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chria9396, God is not against His church. If it wasn't organized, it would be chaotic so I will just stick with the old stuff at my traditional baptist church where the Word of God is preached. Nothing modern about my church....just christians loving christians.
---shira4368 on 10/27/11


Elena: "Church's now caught up- "glintz, glamor & bling/bling!"...That's what the world does! The gospel of Jesus- you ain't got too fancy it up!" give the word,..faith come by hearing! When people see the love of God..They will come.." You got that right!
---Chria9396 on 10/23/11


If Christ was against the organized church of his day, and we know he was, would Christ be against the organized denominational churches of this day?
---mima on 2/16/06

SORRY MIMA there is NOTHING in the bible that says Jesus was against organised church of his day.

Jesus himself WENT to the temple, Matthew 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God,

Jesus taught in the synagogues: Mark 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.


and enouraged Given to the temple Luke 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
---Francis on 10/23/11


'If Christ was against the organized church of his day, '

Oddly enough, He was not. He was against what tried to pass for faith, when it was faithless

If you mean you want to add more divisions, certainly not. After all (this is from the earliest list of faith we have)

ONE holy CATHOLIC and apostolic Church

Of course, this is a tautology: If it is not one, it can't be catholic, if it is catholic, it must be only one
---Peter on 10/22/11


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hello! I gett'n fired up here! I can't help but,get lill' emotional..one gentlemen said it so clearly,"what about just preach & teach the gospel?" Church's now caught up- "glintz, glamor & bling/bling!"...That's what the world does! The gospel of Jesus- you ain't got too fancy it up!" give the word,..faith come by hearing! When people see the love of God..They will come..
---ELENA on 10/21/11


hello! Everyone,I am not a biblical or theology scholar.what I do see most upsets me 'n I beg not to insult anyone(maybe) I am wrong! what happen being loving to one another?not out to be "mega famous!" ... or just out for what you can get!???? Church should extend to being "real!"call on the sick! Not try'n to get a crowd as to do what? Church should be a place where God ,Jesus,Holy Spirit Come first! Not human gifts & wants & selfishness... christ wud be ashamed of the majority of church's... Have learn alot on here from various ChristiaNet..family members. I got more study 'n learn from here. Thanks!
---ELENA on 10/20/11


hello! Everyone,I am not a biblical or theology scholar.what I do see most upsets me 'n I beg not to insult anyone(maybe) I am wrong! what happen being loving to one another?not out to be "mega famous!" ... or just out for what you can get!???? Church should extend to being "real!"call on the sick! Not try'n to get a crowd as to do what? Church should be a place where God ,Jesus,Holy Spirit Come first! Not human gifts & wants & selfishness... christ wud be ashamed of the majority of church's... Have learn alot on here from various ChristiaNet..family members. I got more study 'n learn from here. Thanks!
---ELENA on 10/20/11


Bruce; The Jewish temple (that you say Christ designed) was nothing like the "church" of today. No one except the high priest was allowed inside. It was not a meeting hall! (per say) Sacrifices etc. were done outside. The Synagogue was similar to "church" but was not designed or commanded by God! It was man's invention.
---1st_cliff on 12/16/07


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What makes you think that Christ was against the "organized church" of his day.

That would be the Jewish temple and temple worship - sacrifices etc. He was against those who would abouse their power but not the "church". After all, He designed it!
---Bruce5656 on 5/9/07


My pastor has said on more than one occasion, "You're against organized religion? Then you'd like our church... we're more disorganized than any other church I know!" ;-) (Sorry, I couldn't resist).
---Donna2277 on 11/14/06


He was not against the "church" Temple of his day he kept the law all of it. He kept the festivals, was a Jew of Jews-taught in the Temple little/grown, They called him "Rabbi". He said the Shema, kissed the Torah & read from it, would have worn the pray shawl, the side curls, beard, blown the shofur, danced all of it. He was against the hypocrites but he loved others like Nicodemus teacher of the law, The rich young ruler he looked on him w/love because he had kept the law.
---Jeanne on 11/13/06


Christ was against established church as it corrupted God's word today He will be against any church doing the same established or not anmd for those who, don't established or not
---doree4573 on 11/13/06


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If you think you can box G-d into the four walls of a church, He doesn't fit.

rachel
---Reiter on 11/13/06


First I would say look at the reasons there are so many denominations. There are even many big denom' today that have splinter groups using non-demon' names yet supported by the mother churches. Most of the original "come-outers" (Martin, Luther, Calvin, Westley, Branham, etc.) did so because the main churches lost the Spirit and followed man's doctrines. Then people took their names and became a denom'. I don't think Jesus would approve.
---mikefl on 2/21/06


What Jesus opposed was not the church of his day, but the dact that man made doctrines had taken the place of the Torah. In everything He did, He promoted the need to obey the pure word of God, and not the spin put on it.
Look for the churches that teach the Bibe, but add things to it as needed for salvation.
---mike6553 on 2/17/06


All the learning in the world, or study of the scripture to prove favourite doctrines, or disprove those of others, such as ... no I will not name them, as it would take 100+ blogs... is no good unless you follow those two basic commandments, love God and your neighbour.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/17/06


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Mima; there are lots of Pharisee and Sadducee churches today and His attitude would/is just the same as it was 1st century!
---1st_cliff on 2/17/06


I want to correct a poorly stated question. I should have said the Pharisees and the Sadducees instead of the word CHURCH of his day.
---mima on 2/16/06


How about this? "Church" is not a building. "Church" is the people who follow God's teachings...how can he be against THAT?
---Jose on 2/16/06


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