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Kids Died Before Baptism

We just had a tragedy happen and now we are stuck with one question. A father and his 3 sons ages 3, 4, and 5 were killed in a house fire. None of the boys have been baptized. Are they in Heaven? If not, where are they?

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 ---melissa on 2/20/06
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\\ If only you could see the look on God's face at sinners. You are UGLY. YES. UGLY\\

Are you so deluded that you think you can, catherine?

The Bible says that NOBODY can see God's face and live. God Himself said that to Moses.

Just another example of how your utterances contradict the Bible.
---Cluny on 8/28/10


Even if they had been baptized still no guarantee they would go to heaven. HELLO JESUS A....Sin is ugly. How did you get so ugly? If only you could see the look on God's face at sinners. You are UGLY. YES. UGLY.....Well, that's not very Christ-like! Well, get over it. I'm saved anyhow.
---catherine on 8/28/10


Water baptism is commanded by Jesus, even as Jesus himself has set for us the example and Jesus was baptized IN THE WATER for all to follow him. If you want to lie and say that water baptism is nothing and you refuse his command, then you stay condemned, and there is no salvation for you, none. But if you want salvation then repent from your blasphemy of the scripture, and obey the Commandment of the Lord God Jesus Christ and get WATER baptized just as he commands. period.
---Eloy on 8/28/10


1Cor12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

It is by the Spirit of God that we are baptized into the body of believers. Water has nothing to do with it.

Do you really believe that water baptism saves a person? You could baptize a someone without faith, till Christ comes back and he still won't make it to heaven.

Unless one is born again by the spirit of God he cannot please the Father.
Heb11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Where did we get our faith? Gal 5:22
---trey on 8/26/10


Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)


The bible does not give a list of who was baptized by John, or jesus' disciples.
So how do we know for 100% certain that the thief on the cross was not baptized?
---francis on 8/26/10




Alan, It is my pleasure. God is very fair, contrary to what many think: but he does have a standard, and he does draw a line in the ground: "For the eyes of Yhwh run to and fro throughout the whole earth. But Jesus stooping down, with the finger he wrote in the ground. Neither do I pursue fault, but go sin no more, else something worse may happen to you." II Chron.16:9+ Jn.8:6,11+ 5:14.
---Eloy on 8/26/10


//People who have not been baptized by and in the spirit(as evidenced by speaking in tongues)//

Spiritual gifts are not evidence of the Spirit. Spiritual fruit is.

Matthew 7:21-23...
---aka on 8/25/10


If the thief on the cross wan't baptised whay would there be any concern about babies who did not live.

And further more if God has the whole world in his hands is it our business to question where they go, the future is not ours to see God Allowed it that way.

No man knows not even Jesus Christ at this given moment who's name is written in the Lambs book of life.
---Carla on 8/25/10


Eloy ... Thanks
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/25/10


Then why did Jesus command him to be baptized in water?
---Cluny on 8/25/10

Jesus didn't. Ananias, "a devout man according to the law", instructed him to.

Merriam-Webster

baptize
1: to administer baptism to
2a : to purify or cleanse spiritually especially by a purging experience or ordeal.
2b : initiate
3: to give a name to (as at baptism) : christen


Cluny, then, if baptism of water is absolutely nececessary, then why did he say that Jesus will baptize you in something other than water?
---aka on 8/25/10




The official teaching of the Lutheran Church(Missouri Synod) is that these children went to hell.
---mima on 8/25/10


//Then why did Jesus command him to be baptized in water? ---Cluny on 8/25/10//

Scripture please
---michael_e on 8/25/10


\\The Apostle Paul says there is ONE baptism, and it is not wet.
---michael_e on 8/23/10 \\

Then why did Jesus command him to be baptized in water?
---Cluny on 8/25/10


People who have not been baptized by and in the spirit(as evidenced by speaking in tongues) must desperately clinging to the water baptism they have had. I believe that you can be a born-again Christian without having been baptised in tongues by the Holy Ghost. Because we find this in first Corinthians,
" 28-And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29-Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30-Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret"
---mima on 8/25/10


If the proper amount of H2O extinguishes fire, what effect does it have on the Spirit?
---aka on 8/25/10


\\Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation today. \\

Yes it does. Jesus and St. Peter said so. Go argue with them.

\\The Apostle Paul says there is ONE baptism, and it is not wet. \\

Yes, it is.

It's WET. With REAL H2O Water!

It's WET! It's WET! It's WET!

And if you didn't get wet, you weren't really baptized.
---Cluny on 8/24/10


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Where they are has nothing to do with "water baptism"

Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation today. The Apostle Paul says there is ONE baptism, and it is not wet.
---michael_e on 8/23/10

AMEN!!!

King David said of his son who died:
2Sa12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

David knew where his son was. No where in the scriptures do I find evidence that children that die go to hell.
---trey on 8/24/10


Rob-

1) I do not have to follow your game. Sola Scriptura is your doctrine, not Scriptures.

2) Scriptures such Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 (connecting to Col 2:11-12, which teach Baptism is the New Circumcision), Acts 2:39, 10:47-48, 16:15, 33, all refers to Infant Baptism (indirectly) and the Early Christians understood that.

3) We have evidence from the writings of the Early Christians, ancient liturgies, and catacombs pictures, that Infant Baptism was indeed practiced by the second-third century Christians. Thereby, Infant Baptism is indeed part of Apostolic Tradition. All the Apostolic Churches today practice it.

4) Please tell me why I should follow your 21st century interpretations of Scriptures.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/23/10


amen, michael_e...Paul couldn't have said it better than he did.
---aka on 8/24/10


Alan, Jesus said: "The whole need not a physician, but the sick: for I am come not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves: which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and thoughts between themselves accusing or else excusing one another." Mt.9:12,13+ Rm.2:14,15. Please Read- Rm.2:25-29.
Those whom have not heard the gospel (rightly), they are the same as those whom have not heard the gospel. But if the gospel was rightly delivered, and the person rejected it, then that person is accountable.
---Eloy on 8/24/10


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Many of these traditions are of man and not a requirement at all, so with Christmas, Birthdays and christenings. One can give God thanks for your children by blessing them at the same stages the old Testament saints blessed theirs.

What we are required to do is commune with each other as Christ did his disciples and told them to do the same one to another in memory of him until he returns.

The communion of bread/wine and feet washing of each other as he did his fellow saints.

and LOVE one another.......
---Carla on 8/24/10


Ignatius, please show me where it is written in scripture about infant baptisms and where in scripture the first century christians practiced this.
---Rob on 8/23/10


Where they are has nothing to do with "water baptism"

Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation today. The Apostle Paul says there is ONE baptism, and it is not wet.
---michael_e on 8/23/10


"Friendly Blogger, I go by what is written in scripture, and not by religous traditions of men. How does this make me a heritic." (Rob)

Then why do you go by what it is written only (Holy Scriptures) if such a doctrine (Sola Scriptura) is not taught in Scriptures?

"I share scripture, but I noticed you have not shared any"

For Infant Baptism? The first generations of Christians practiced Infant Baptism (those who are part of the Apostolic Churches today still do) and they saw it in Scriptures indirectly. But like always, you believe your 21st century interpretations are correct and ignore Apostolic Tradition.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/23/10


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None of the boys have been baptized. Are they in Heaven? If not, where are they?

You meant to ask WILL they be in heaven.
As of now they are both in the grave, that much is sure.
And no one but God knows whether or not they will be in heaven.

Acts 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:
---francis on 8/23/10


Eloy ... You say "Three kinds of people go to heaven: the righteous by nature who never heard the gospel, ... ... "

Eloy ... you will have vociferous objection to that from many here.

But, I tend to agree with you about that group, and have seen scripture which supports the view. But can't recall it! Can you help?

There's another group I wonder about ... those who have heard the gospel, but have not understood it because it has been badly presented, and rendered unattractive or nonsensical.
What do you think about them?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/23/10


\\Friendly Blogger, I go by what is written in scripture, and not by religous traditions of men.\\

If you went by Scripture, you would not believe in Sola Scriptura.
---Cluny on 8/23/10


The Bible reads that if a soul dies in sin it goes to hell, and if a soul dies without sin it goes to heaven. Three kinds of people go to heaven: the righteous by nature who never heard the gospel, the born-again Christian, and the backslider who repented or returned to the Lord. And three kinds of people who go to hell: the wicked by nature who never heard the gospel, the person who heard the gospel, but rejected it, and the backslider who never repented or returned to the Lord.
---Eloy on 8/23/10


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"Rob as a practicing heretic why would you even bother blogging about being a Christian as it is something you can never ever aspire to."
---Friendly_Blogger on 8/23/10

Friendly blogger even if you were right, which you are not, your judgmental post would seem to be a bit harsh.
---mima on 8/23/10


Friendly Blogger, I go by what is written in scripture, and not by religous traditions of men. How does this make me a heritic.

I share scripture, but I noticed you have not shared any.
---Rob on 8/23/10


Rob, Baptism of infants and children us been normative in Christianity for over 20 centuries. It is an act of Covenants to bring all members of the family under the protection of YHWH as soon as possible. The parents of infants and children agree to bring the children up in a Christian home and agree to insure their children are train in Christian beliefs to prepare them for joining the church at an appropriate age when they reaffirm their beliefs publicly before the congregation.

Rob as a practicing heretic why would you even bother blogging about being a Christian as it is something you can never ever aspire to.
---Friendly_Blogger on 8/23/10


Romans 1:7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
---aka on 8/23/10


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///Paul was explaining water baptism to the Jews in Christ and how it relates to spirit baptism in Jesus Christ///

Where is this found?
---michael_e on 8/23/10


Ruben_Ruiz,

let me clarify... I do not believe water baptism is not necessary.

i believe in the baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and the baptism of Fire and Spirit none of which I can see is an element of the water compound.

in short, i believe in baptism of Jesus Christ - there is no other way. Jesus was addressing Jews not Gentiles. Paul was explaining water baptism to the Jews in Christ and how it relates to spirit baptism in Jesus Christ.

I have been water baptized 4 or 5 times. I am being baptized by Fire and Spirit as we speak, and it will only be once.

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you
---aka on 8/23/10


Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
---TheSeg on 8/22/10


baptism is not required...God know His own business that we do not understand.

i agree with Mima on 6/29/08
---aka on 8/22/

Then you and mima are going against Jesus:

Acts 2:38 - Peter commands them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be actually forgiven of sin.

Matt. 28:19-20 - Jesus commands the apostles to baptize all people "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."
---Ruben_Ruiz on 8/22/10


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Friendly Blogger, do you know of any babies who have heard the Gospel, believed and understood right after they were born, Mark 16:16?

What about what Christ said in Acts 1:5, and the Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1:13-17?
---Rob on 8/22/10


\\"Age of accountability" isnt found in the Bible. Neither is "Rapture". That doesnt mean they arent taught.\\

If by "rapture" you mean "pre-trib rapture", that is not taught in the Bible at all.
---Cluny on 8/22/10


LUKE 1:15 ---- And he shall be filled with with the HOLY GHOST even from his Mother womb ( this verses show us that God save John the bapist from the womb, So this shows us GOD sometimes saves children, even before they were born.
( THE act of pouring water on a person will not get you save)
EPHESIAN 1:4 ACCORDING as he hath CHOOSEN us in him before the foundation of the worid,
(The people that GOD choosen are to be save will be save)

---RICHARD on 8/22/10


And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing,
Ye shall receive!

The chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said,
By what authority doest thou these things?
and who gave thee this authority?

And Jesus answered and said unto them,
I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me,
I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.

The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?


Well, if from HEAVEN, what can MAN do for you?

Nice Mima!
---TheSeg on 8/22/10


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baptism is not required...God know His own business that we do not understand.

i agree with Mima on 6/29/08
---aka on 8/22/10


Basically both you and your husband were negligent. Each child should have been baptized as soon as possible after birth. Then your children would have been under God's protective care and their deaths MAY have been prevented.

As to their current location, they are just dead because the resurrection of the dead and judgement have not happened yet. If God chose your sons to be among His Elect they will go to heaven eventually.
---Friendly_Blogger on 8/22/10


They are asleep until the ressurection. Since they were children they should go straight back to God. Do not forget John3:13 telling us that noone except Jesus has come down or went to heaven. In the book of Daniel it also states we are sleeping in our graves. Jesus said that Lazurus was sleeping. So though it is a tragedy how these kids died, they are sleeping now.
---candice on 8/22/10


Using predestination to take a stab at someone who is in grief? How absolutely horrible!

Thank God this blog is 3 years old and hopefully this person has found peace by now.
---JackB on 8/22/10


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"Age of accountability" isnt found in the Bible. Neither is "Rapture". That doesnt mean they arent taught. Those are just the phrases we use to identify Biblical teachings.

Numbers 32:10,11

And the LORD'S anger was kindled the same time, and he sware, saying,
Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, because they have not wholly followed me:


Men in the Old Testament also were not sent to war until they were 20 years old.

If you want to do a word search do "twenty years and up" and see what you come up with.
---JackB on 8/22/10


Well, there is either hell or heaven and that's all there is. The Bible is not very clear about babies or children who dies early, where they go. It is hard to imagine that they are in hell. However, keep in mind that God already knows the future of each one of us. Those that He will save and those that He will not. Whether you are six or sixty.
---catherine on 8/22/10


\\Every one has an age of accountability. \\

Lawrence, since you have usually claimed you read nothing but the Bible, can you please tell us where it uses the expression "age of accountability"?
---Cluny on 8/21/10


Every one has an age of accountability. Those children may have not reached that age. God is a living & a just God. He Knows.
---Lawrence on 8/21/10


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As concerns the question of a child dying before baptism I find this verse. Matthew 18:10 to be very enlightening,"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones, for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven." And comforting.
---Mima on 6/29/08


One way to look at baptism: Being saved comes first. A child or adult has to be able to comprehend that there is only one true God. Jesus, born of a virgin, is Gods son. Jesus was with out sin. He was crucified for our sins. He was then again raised by God on the third day, and in his Glorified body was taken to heaven. The way I explained this to my children was Being saved is an equivalent to accepting an engagement ring. The Baptism is equivalent to the wedding. It is in obedience that we become baptized. Children and Adults that can not comprehend this is innocent Our God is a just God. In other words of course the children are in heaven.
---DeeDee on 6/26/08


Children have no understanding of "free will" or baptism. For that reason baptism of young children is unecessary. God holds them blameless and when they pass away early in life He brings them to Himself. Yes, they are in heaven.
---Ken on 6/4/08


Rob, why would I study 1 Cor chapter one to figure out what Jesus meant in the Gospels?
Thats the problem with most Protestants. If you disagree with Jesus'words in the Gospel you tried to explain it away(away to your way) with the Letters after the Gospels. Even over looking the hundreds of verses backing up Jesus' Commandments.
One example is the forumla of words you collected from Romans to declare your desire on 'how to SAVE yourselfs.'

Rob, please study and meditate on the Gospels first.
---Nicole on 5/26/08


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#2 For a Bible based understanding concerning the Sacrament of Baptism, please read John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38-39, 1 Cor. 12:12-13, Colossians 2:11-13, Romans 6:3-4, Galatians 3:26-27, Titus 3:5, 1 Cor 6:11, and Ezekiel 36:25-27. The God-Bearing Fathers of the Church also taught the importance of Baptism in the Christian Life. Those who do want to get baptize (for they feel is not necessary) are in error.

Infants and no Baptism- We leave it to the Mercy of Our Lord.
---Ramon on 5/26/08


Rob *Nicole, before Christ went to the cross water baptism was a requirement. After the cross, water baptism was no longer required.*

There was no Christian Baptism before Christ. Christ was the one who instituted the Sacrament of Baptism after His resurrection. Please read Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16.

All we have prior to Jesus was the Baptism of John, which was no longer valid after Christ gave the Christian Sacrament of Baptism.
---Ramon on 5/26/08


Nicole, before Christ went to the cross water baptism was a requirement. After the cross, water baptism was no longer required.

Please take time and study 1 Corinthians Chapter One.
---Rob on 5/24/08


YES, and on that very day you will be with me in paradise. Jesus said it. It is in Black and White. No such thing as soul-sleep. When God takes your last breath heaven or hell is yours.
---catherine on 5/24/08


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I not saying the kids are not in heaven. They are in heaven or will be soon, being in a good state. No suffering. The RCC states they just don't know. Limbo has been dropped. All they state is the God is Mercy and will bring God to Himself.
It is a Mystery.
---Nicole on 5/24/08


How can some of you all make statment saying "baptism is not required to go to heaven?" It in the Bible by Jesus' own words! How can you say the opposite words of Jesus. Do you think you know more about Salvation then Jesus? Mark 16:16 WHOEVER BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED..MATT28:19 "Go,therefore, and make disciples of all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU."
---Nicole on 5/24/08


God is an understanding God...the thief on the cross was not able to come down and be baptized, and Jesus Himself assured him of salvation.
---Todd1 on 5/23/08


All of these children are in heaven...Being baptized is not a requirement to go to heaven.Jesus covered our Past, Present and future sins when he died on the Cross...Every aborted baby and every child who has not reached the age of accountability who die a premature death go to heaven.
---Elisabeth on 5/23/08


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If I know Abraham, he's still sitting by the Cool waters comforting all who die W/the Lords Blood on them.
I believe thats where them boy's are right now, waiting for the Lord to give his Shout.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/23/08


Baptisim is an outword sign for showing your faith in Jesus, not a requirement to get to heaven.
---jeff_jansen on 5/23/08


Baptism is not a requirement for heaven. Nobody can see with certainty where the children are, though many believe that they have not reached the age of accountability, and therefore will be in glory with Jesus.
---Madison on 5/13/08


The Bible clearly states that we must be baptised, Mark 16:16. But, if it was the intent of the parents to have the children baptised at some point, then God would certainly take that into consideration. Further, I do not know that God would damn the children without first looking into their hearts.

Because the Bible is somewhat unclear on this, and leaning more to damnation, the RCC developed the idea of Limbo, but that was never a satisfactory solution. I leave it in God's merciful hands.
---lorra8574 on 5/31/07


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Relax, the boys did not need to be baptized to be saved. All baptism is, is an outward confession and a commitment to live for Christ. The boys were very young and God is good!
---Peter on 5/31/07


They are with the Father.
---Linda6563 on 5/6/06


It's a shame that you would want to worry about where these little children reside, especially as to try to judge them would be to take Christ off the cross. These children are awaiting the 2nd comming of Christ since it is written in Rev.. that even the Saints at some point ask how long will they have to wait (in the grave)..., B4 their deaths are avenged. (in my words) these childern are sleeping in peace, bless
---Carla5457 on 5/6/06


There is no relationship between baptism and going to heaven! While it may be wrong to assume where they are, they are probably in heaven because of their ages. (Baptism is an outward testamony of an inward decision. It has nothing to do with going to heaven. The theif on the cross with Christ wasn't baptised, but Christ told him he would be in heaven.)
---WIVV on 3/16/06


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They are in heaven, for they know not the sin that is in this world. Baptism doesn't save a person nor does it send anyone to heaven or hell. Baptism is the outward, visible sign of being saved. The question you need to ask is where is the father heaven or hell?
---Rebecca_D on 2/20/06


M.A. Yes a curel teaching, and it not even taught in scripture. Baptism is not require for us to be save, its only done when we are save. If the boy underage, then he save. He didnt do anything wrong. God has mercy and is a wonderful God. Praise the Lord!
---Ramon on 2/20/06


Mark 10:14,15 Luke 18:16,17 These verses make me think, God welcomes babies and small children to heaven when they die.
---Ulrika on 2/20/06


The problem is that some churches teach that baptism is essential to be saved. If a child is born very ill and not expected to survive some parents will move mountains (metaphorically) to get someone to baptise the baby before it dies because they have been lead to believe the baby will go to hell if not baptised. This is a cruel teaching.
---M.A. on 2/20/06


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Well the boys hadn't reached the age of accountablity so they are in heaven.
---Rickey on 2/20/06


Yes, they are in heaven. Baptism has nothing to do with that. They were not yet at the age of accountability.
---Lissa on 2/20/06


Melissa,
Baptism is irrelevant to the question. Baptism saves NO ONE.
The dead go to either Heaven or Hell.
It comes down to the question of whether or not infants go to heaven because they are not responsible for themselves. This question has been discussed at length here in the past.
For example:
http://christianblogs.christianet.com/1129061718.htm
http://christianblogs.christianet.com/1138123040.htm
http://christianblogs.christianet.com/1133983658.htm#1140455815842
---Bruce5656 on 2/20/06


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