Is Eternal Damnation Fair
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What we consider fair or not fair is irrevelant. We who serve the Lord serve an eternal God, we recieve His eternal love and mercy when we worship Him and His Son. If we reject His Son we bring God's wrath on ourselves this wrath is eternal. For this reason Jesus was the only one who could be an acceptable sacrifice for our sins . No one could absorb the sins of all time and the wrath of god but an eternal being as is Jesus.. God Himself |
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---duane on 1/15/08 |
I suggest you contact the person who instigated this sentence for all who fail to accept the Lord Jesus Christ. |
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---mima on 6/7/07 |
poor theology jeffery. you say b4 saved we have no father???? acts 13:10 says the sorcerer was a child of the devil. devil was his father matt 13:38 speaks of being children of the wicked one Jn 8:44 Jesus himself said 'Ye are of your father the devil." and to you WIVV it would be most fair if God didnt provide a way out and sent our sorry carcasses into hell forever-because we deserve it check your theology too |
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---r.w. on 9/19/06 |
It has to be fair. If God had not provided a method of a person getting to heaven, than you could say it's unfair. BUT, since He did provide a method for us to get to heaven, (by sacrificing His own Son), it would be unfair if He made exceptions. |
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---WIVV on 3/23/06 |
Elder, you are right! We are not saved by our acts of righteousness! We are saved only by God's grace!
But before we are saved, we have no spiritual father. Not God, not the devil. We're spiritually dead. Once we get a spiritual father, that can never change, no more than you can change who your physical father is. Those who are the devil's children will never be saved. |
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---Jeffrey on 3/9/06 |
Jeffrey, I can't even spell my own name right. How many times have you seen me spell Eler instead of Elder?
I was commenting on your statement of, "If we could have done God's Will perfectly, we could have had everlasting life on our own merits."
My point was/is we are not Saved by our acts of righteousness.
Until we are Born Again we are of our father the Devil and his lust we will do.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. |
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---Elder on 3/9/06 |
Elder, I don't think you read my post carefully. I know that we have a sin nature from birth and that Jesus Christ did not. Neither did God form, make, and create Adam with a sin nature. But once Adam sinned that became his nature. And he passed his sin nature on to his descendants. It's impossible to have a sin nature and not sin!
Perhaps the only thing we disagree on here is how to spell my name. :) |
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---Jeffrey on 3/9/06 |
Jeffery your theory is nice but your theology is wrong.
If we kept every one of God's laws we would still die and go to Hell because we were born Sinners. Not sinning does not change anyone from being a Sinner. We are born sinners and that is what makes us sinners. This is the reason we must be Born again. The Law reveals to us that we are sinners because we cannot keep the Law. Christ could keep the Law because He was not born a sinner. He had no sin nature for He had no earthly father. |
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---Elder on 3/7/06 |
Close, Lupe, very close.
If we could have done God's Will perfectly, we could have had everlasting life on our own merits. There was one who did just that, Jesus Christ. But Rom 1-3 shows us how bad our sin nature was. Adam didn't have a sin nature but he still didn't walk perfectly.
We were born body and soul, no spirit, neither children of God nor of the devil. Spiritually, we were dead. Those who are children of the devil have his seed in them and can never become children of God. |
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---Jeffrey on 3/7/06 |
God is our maker, therefore he has every right to tell us what we must do to be with him. God has every right to judge us. Roman 3:23 God gives us two options to believe in Jesus as our saviour, or reject him. If we reject Christ, we will suffer the consequences. Who are we to argue with God about his only plan of salvation. John 3:15-18 \ 14:6 Acts 4:12 Moses, David, and Paul were saved by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8,9 Romans 5:1 They acted by faith, when obeying God. Hebrews 11:1-40 |
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---Ulrika on 3/7/06 |
4. I believe this theory of "good by nature" is detrimental to the need for Christ. It tells others they are ok without Christ. If they are good by nature they don't need the grace of Christ. But Scripture teaches we all need Christ. That theory is false teaching. Unbiblical. No substance to that. We can twist God's word all we want but it will not change the fact that everyone needs Christ. No other theory is worse then that. |
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---Lupe2618 on 3/7/06 |
3. Before sinners are born into God's kingdom through the regeneration power of the Spirit, they are children of the devil and under his control; they are slaves to sin. John 8:44; "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." Following the prince and power of the air, Satan. No there is no one "good by nature". In fact, the Bible teaches, there is no one good, no not one" |
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---Lupe2618 on 3/7/06 |
2. Now this passage is coming from the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, "Truely, truely, I say to you, unless one is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, Do not marvel that I said to you, 'you must be born anew,'" There is no other way into God's kingdom. Psalm 51:5, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." |
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---Lupe2618 on 3/7/06 |
There is no "good by nature". As the result of Adam's transgression, men are born in sin and by nature are spiritually dead; therefore, if they are to become God's children and enter His kingdom, they must be born anew of the Spirit. If there is people "good by nature" why would we evangelize and bring the Gospel to them? Why not keep them un-inform so they can make it in? |
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---Lupe2618 on 3/7/06 |
Eternal damnation is fair, for each person "chooses" their eternal destination. From the beginning it has been set in front of us, life and death, blessing and cursing; we must choose this day whom we will serve, whether sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness. Some will awake to everlasting life, and some will awake to shame and everlasting contempt, for we must all stand in front of the Judgment throne of Christ to receive in our body the things we have done, whether good or bad. |
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---Eloy on 3/6/06 |
The "good by nature": "The whole need not a physician, but the sick: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves: which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and thoughts between themselves accusing or else excusing one another." Matthew 9:12,13; Romans 2:14,15. |
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---Eloy on 3/6/06 |
Moses, David and Paul are all guilty of murder, and are in heaven, according to Scripture. |
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---John_T on 3/6/06 |
3. (experience the consummation of our redemption in heaven). The Bible speaks of salvation in terms of the past, present, and future. Finally, salvation is both of the Lord and from the Lord. It is the Lord who saves us from the wrath of the Lord. The reason we are called children of promise is because we stand on Christ's promises towards our salvation, by faith. |
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---Lupe2618 on 3/6/06 |
2. This is the rescue operation Christ performs for His people as their Savior. The bible uses the term salvation not only in many senses, but in many tenses. The verb to save appears in virtually every possible tense of the Greek language. There is a sense in which we were saved (from the foundation of the World); we were being saved (by the works of God in history); we are saved (by being in a justified state); we are being saved (by being sanctified or made holy); and we will be saved |
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---Lupe2618 on 3/6/06 |
First of all, there is no one "good by nature". Everyone is condemn already. Salvation means to be rescued from some calamity. However, the bible also uses the term salvation in a specific sense to refer to our ultimate redemption from sin and reconciliation to God. In this sense, salvation is from the ultimate calamity-the judgment of God. The ultimate salvation is accomplished by Christ who "delivers us from the wrath to come" 1 Thessalonians 1:10. |
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---Lupe2618 on 3/6/06 |
Jesus quoted from the inspired Torah (today called the Massoretic text, for the Jewish Massoretes added the Massorah), and not the corrupt Septuagint. The Septuagint is riddled with adulterations. For example, the inspired Torah quotes "the messengers of God", whereas the scholarly but uninspired Septuagint mistranslates the scripture to read "angels of God". And there are many other errors obvious in the Septuagint. |
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---Eloy on 3/6/06 |
I read the question before it was posted.
Certain churches have in their bibles the Greek Septuagint which was the bible in print during the time of Jesus. It is accepted by the Roman Catholics as canon. |
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---gregg8944 on 3/5/06 |
eternal damnation is fair and I thank GOD for His unfairness that throught Christ crucified who was sinless was butchered and killed for my sin. I guess if GOD were fair he would have eternally damned us. SO PRAISE GOD HE IS UNFAIR. |
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---willow on 3/5/06 |
SLCguy, 2 Esdras 7: 75-101 will tell you the answer about Mother Theresa and Hitler. |
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---gregg8944 on 3/5/06 |
I agree about the sincerity, Mike, but it's bigger than that. Read the first few chapters of Romans. We don't start out good and do bad things; we start out enemies of God and dead! But God rescues us if we choose life!
It's unfair to the living to keep a dead person in the house. Likewise God doesn't keep dead people in His house.
1 John 5:12:
He that hath the Son hath life; {and} he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. |
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---Jeffrey on 3/5/06 |
SLCGuy, There are no idolaters nor murderers in heaven, for sin cannot enter into heaven. The murderer was converted, therefore he will enter heaven. As for the unsaved boy, his only chance of entering into heaven would be if he was good by nature but never heard the gospel. Please read Romans 2:14,15,26-29. |
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---Eloy on 3/5/06 |
SLCGuy just as it is not our good works that secure us a place in Heaven it is not our bad works that secure us a place in hell. Both are decided purely on whether Jesus is our Saviour OR NOT. I think when we reach Heaven we might be very surprised to see who is there. |
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---M.P. on 3/5/06 |
SLYGuy, no one can answer that for we do not know that answer. How do you know the boy that was killed was a sinner? How do you know that Hilter really got saved? How do we know that Mother Thearsa was saved? We don't. Only Jesus knows that answer, ask him. |
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---Rebecca_D on 3/5/06 |
In our quaint way, we English reckon that the natural span of a man's life is "three score years and ten" that is 70. But with increased health provisions the normal span is getting longer, although not necessarily happier. That is in the developed world, while in the 3rd world it is still very much below that. 120 is very much a maximum, as the questioner said. To the question itself, Madison and Jan are right. |
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---alan8869_of_UK on 3/5/06 |
I asked this before, never got a straight answer. Do Mother Theresa and Hitler share the same eternal fate? A man murderers an 'unsaved boy,' goes to prison, 'gets saved.' The murderer goes to heaven, the victim goes to hell--? |
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---SLCGuy on 3/5/06 |
You ask if eternal damnnation is fair: I say to you and at the same time ask you this ?? Was it fair for GOD to give HIS only SON to die for Your sins and mine? Think about this one hard and long. |
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---Jan on 3/5/06 |
cont
Sometimes people say, it doesn't matter what you bleieve as long as you believe it sincerely.
A man drives through a 30mph zone at 70, sincerely believing its a 70mph zone. He will atill be guilty in law for breaking the speed limit, no matter what he thinks. |
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---mike6553 on 3/5/06 |
As a point, we choose to go to hell, not sent there. If we have herd the gospel and reject it, then it is our choice, and its the rejection that sends us to hell.
We have the Law of God, the Bible, and in it we are warned of the damnation to come.
I believe that only someone who genuinely has never heard the gospel will be judged on their actions. |
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---mike6553 on 3/5/06 |
Where else would the antiGod and antiChrist people, and the destroying devils be put? Certainly not with the abode of the righteous; for one sinner destroys much good. I know one sinner in particular, that if she were admitted into heaven she would utterly make complete ruin of our Paradise. |
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---Eloy on 3/4/06 |
The length of our life does not matter. God is fair and just as his word says. To question his fairness is to be dangerously close to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. There is a perfect eternal heaven to the just and a perfect eternal damnation to the unjust. Equal length for both, fair indeed. |
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---Shari on 3/4/06 |
Fair = Everyone is going to Hell. But for God in his mercy. |
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---Tom on 3/3/06 |
Correction: Psalm 90:10 'The length of our days is seventy years - or eighty, if we have the strength;' |
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---gregg8944 on 3/3/06 |
Gen. 6:3 '. . . yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.' It was reduced to 85 years somewhere near to there, I haven't found it yet. |
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---gregg8944 on 3/3/06 |
Jonathan I will give you credit for actually saying "about 120 years". And for understanding it was meant as base estimate for conversation sake. Therefore, I must also ask, what in life is "fair"? Also I ask does the scripture actually mean the damnation is eternal or the source causing the damnation is eternal? BIG difference. Only God is everlasting/eternal. Not hell, not damnation, not even death. If it is not of God, one day it just won't exist any more. |
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---mikefl on 3/2/06 |
You are the first person I heard that the lifespan is 80, where did that come from? I think it is fair. Jesus gives all a chance to turn their from their wicked ways and follow him, Jesus has warned us all what will happen if we don't accept him. The 120 years or 80 years don't make sense to me, since hell and heaven is eternal. Give scriptures saying we only have 120 years or 80 years. |
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---Rebecca_D on 2/26/06 |
Jonathan: Was it fair for Christ so suffer on the cross for the sins of all mankind? Let's get some perspective. Who are you, the created, questioning the Creator? |
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---Madison on 2/26/06 |
Where did you come up with the figure, 120 years? But, that's not important - your question is. It may appear unfair - but, man, (generic) got himself into his own mess through Adam. God, in His mercy, has provided a way out. All a person has to do is accept it. If a person doesn't, it's not God's fault - but back to man again. It's like you are drowning in the ocean and someone throws you a lifesaver, but you refuse to accept it and drown. Who's fault is it? |
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---WIVV on 2/26/06 |
Our life span is 120 years? I thought it was 80. No kidding jonathan, We all have plenty of time to be saved. It didn't take but a few minutes with God dealing with my heart. I thought I was going to choke to death. I think the spirit deals with some over and over. The spirit dealt with my husband 10 years ago, then left. It did not speak to him again until feb-2004. After so long God will quit dealing with a person.
Moderator - The average lifespan is 80, but the high end is 120. |
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---shira on 2/26/06 |
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