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God So Loved The World

John 3:16 God so loved the world. This not talking about the planet is it? Is not heaven and earth going to pass away? Is not there going to be a new heaven and earth?
scripture please.

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 ---Ulrika on 2/26/06
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jeffrey.Just because i didnt write your name right does not mean i dont have the correct view of the bible.And if you think your name is so important then do what joseph stalin did,put your name on all the history books.I attack your beliefs that are wrong according to the word of God.Asking questions is not a sin.What does spelling your name correclty got to do with the word of God?
---Ramon on 3/28/06


Jeffrey on 3/26/06 you did attack and later quoted Scripture to back up your position.
It is you who placed great emphasis on your name in the context of the discussion of Scripture.
I have spelled my own name wrong on here many times. If spelling offends you fine I will try to remember to be more careful with yours.
Cond #2
---Elder on 3/28/06


Cond #2
I don't intend to have a "violent disagreement" with anyone here as you say.
Why would a Christian not want to know if someone else is Saved or not? Is it wrong to ask if you believe the Bible or not?
Or do you have a problem with the one asking the question?
You or anyone else can ask me anything you want it doesn't bother me.
---Elder on 3/28/06


Elder, you've totally misunderstood what I've said. I said, "spelling someone's name right is only common courtesy" and I referred to spelling my name right as a small thing.

I did not attack Ramon in any way, but I feel very much attacked by both Ramon and you. You may feel it's ok to question someone's salvation, intelligence, and commitment but I don't! You may feel it's godly to compare someone to another with whom you have a violent disagreement, but I want no part of it!
---Jeffrey on 3/27/06


Jeffrey on 3/26/06 what you did was to attack Ramon on the spelling of your name. It appears to some that you have put your name on the level of deity.
You are welcome to spell my name anyway you like. Because someone makes an error in spelling does not mean they don't know the truth.
Spelling your name has nothing to do with how I feel about you or anyone. I have been married for 30 years and don't pronounce my wife's name correctly as spelled. What does that mean?
Cond #2
---Elder on 3/27/06




Cond #2
You are not so special that you can quote Scripture and demand respect because someone spells your name wrong. Plus you cannot get respect because you demand it.
This is not the first time this has disturbed you. Get over it.
I will tell you when Adam got saved when you answer the question you if you believe that God told them what Eve quoted to Satan in v2-3 in Gen 3:1-4 or not?
---Elder on 3/27/06


cliff.#2.Here we go again.Cliff the people that came back to life were called 'holy people' or 'saints'.Sinners,liars, the devil, demons are not call 'saints'.Please find me a scripture that states so.Since you reject the NT, how can you understand that verse? You have twist that verse so badly.Now cliff dont believe that verse, but want everyone else to believe that he does. Cliff just cant understand NT scriptures,thats why he rejects them. Still saying things that contradict the bible?
---Ramon on 3/26/06


Jeffrey."Where does the Bible say 'life after death'?". Please reread my posts that i have made for the past weeks.The same ones cliff's rejects, but he reject the NT.I hope you dont. I dont need to repeat myself.Its alreadly on the site. All you got do its read the scriptures carefully. The problem today is that people cant read something and understand what its trying to say without specific words.If you need me to explain it again it simple terms, i will be glad to to so.God bless.
---Ramon on 3/26/06


cliff."Mat 27 "the bodies arose"? no way ,the earthquake was so strong it shook the bodies right out of the ground.Again we see cliff "untruths". Verse 52 saids" 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life!!!.NIV.Cliff has twist that scripture.Cliff didnt read that part,but he hopes no one will notice his mistake.Have you answer my question?Hum,nope.

Cliff you reject the NT, stop making believe you do.Tell me otherwise?
---Ramon on 3/26/06


#4MT 27:52.It said "Many bodies of the saints".The bodies!, not the saints.It said "Of the" meaning the saints bodies, not the saints.Then it goes on to say "which slept arose".The "which slept arose" refers to the body, not the saints themselves.The bodies slept."And the grave were opened;and MANY BODIES OF THE saints WHICH SLEPT AROSE.Its it my fault you dont know "english"? If you cant understand one scripture,imagine the whole bible.Hello!.
---Ramon on 3/26/06




Ramon;According to you the dead people were either up in heaven,or down in the flames, so you're saying that they came back down (or up) climbed back into their bodies and ran around town? You're watching too many horror movies! The resurrection did not take place then. The resurrected ones will live forever,those people are not around,are they?
---1st_cliff on 3/26/06


Ramon, chapter and verse. Where does the Bible say 'life after death'? I found 'resurrection' in 41 places but I can't seem to find 'life after death' anywhere.
---Jeffrey on 3/26/06


2.
No, I don't eat out of Cliff's pot, or even Olie's. And no, I'm not Mormon. And yes, I do know the difference between body and spirit. But do you know the difference between spirit and soul?

I only asked where the Bible says Adam got saved because you didn't say. I'd be happy to discuss blood sacrifices and what Eve said to the devil, but only in a kind, respectful manner.
---Jeffrey on 3/26/06


1.
Elder, spelling someone's name right is only common courtesy, and since we're to be especially good to the household of faith (Gal 6:10), shouldn't we do at least that? But now you misspell my name on purpose. Why?

As to the carelessness with small things vs. the acuracy of God's Word, have you read what Jesus said in Luke 16?

Luke 16:10:
He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
---Jeffrey on 3/26/06


Jeffrey.#4. I didnt know your name was so "important" that we need to spell it correctly.Mayor?. Christianet.com does not have a spell check you know.Spelling your name right is not important.People these days.the death of a believer is a temporary suspension of physical activity.Just like Lk.16:19-36 death is not a cessation of existence for either the rich man or Lazarus(which was not a parable!(reread my posts about that).Cant understand that simple scripture?
---Ramon on 3/26/06


Jeffrey.#3. annihilation (no existence at all afterdeath), is this not what you and cliff believe that its not in the bible? If you cant understand simple stuff, how can you understand the Word of God? "Death" as decribe in the encyclopedia:Death is the cessation of "physical life" in a living organism, or the state of the organism after that event.The Bible teaches death is not a cessation of existence, but a separation of existence.
---Ramon on 3/26/06


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Cliff is at the one verse a month club again and twisting and turning Scripture.
An earthquake so strong that bodies shook and people in the city saw them? What would that cause anyone to believe? Nothing!
Of course Cliff doesn't believe the NT so those of you that do read Matt 27:51-53.
Cond #2
---Elder on 3/26/06


Cond #2
There is no big deal about bodies coming out of the grave. It happens all the time. Our last flood had bodies and caskets everywhere.
What is special is that these Saints arose and went into the city and appeared to many v52-53.
The words "arose" used here is as if someone rose and walked up to testify against someone. You will notice that only Saints arose.
The same word "arose" is used in other places like Matt 2:14, 8:26 and 9:19
---Elder on 3/26/06


jeffrey.#2.KJV Mtt 27:52"2And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose". If you cant understand that, how must my posts? The specific mention of bodies makes the meaning clear of what actually slept. It was not the saints themselves that slept but their bodies.Whenever the Bible speaks of death in the sense of sleep it is always used of the physical body because the appearance of a sleeping body and a dead body look very much the same.
---Ramon on 3/26/06


Hey Cliff you still in that one verse a month club?
An earthquake so strong bodies were shook and people in the city saw them? What would that cause anyone to believe?
Of course you don't believe the NT so reading Matt 27: 51-53 won't do any good. Those of you who do believe read it for your self.
Cond #2
---Elder on 3/26/06


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Cond #2
Cliff again twists, denies and perverts Scripture.
What is the big deal about bodies coming out of graves? It happens all the time, nothing special. Our last flood had bodies and caskets out of graves everywhere.
What is special is that these bodies arose and went into the town and appeared to many v52-53.
Now Cliff would want you to believe that there was a mud slid also.
Cond #3
---Elder on 3/26/06


Cond #3
The word "Arose" used here is as if someone rose and walked up to testify against someone. You will notice that ONLY the Saints arose.
The same word is used in other places like in Matt 2:14, 8:26 and 9:19. It has to do with standing up. These bodies stood up and went into the city. They were the known dead yet they lived and testified.
Again Cliff would not have you believe the Bible but him.
---Elder on 3/26/06


jeffrey.If you have at least read most of my post before, you will have at least have better understanding of Spiritual death. If you cant understand what the bible saids, how must more my posts? As i said with cliff.Death does not mean the end!.This is seen in countless scriptures. From OT to NT.The bible speaks about life afterdeath.
---Ramon on 3/26/06


(Jeffery, Jeffrey, Jeff or whatever) you said "But if you're careless with a simple thing like the spelling of my name, how do you expect to be accurate with the Word of God?"
--- Jeffrey on 3/26/06
The spelling of your name is not an inspired thing and if it disturbs you so much try to get over it. Write Bill Gates and tell him to put your name in Spell Check.
I really hope you are not that vain. Misspelling your name is not sin.
---Elder on 3/26/06


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Jefferey since you seem to be eating out of the same pot that Cliff does do you believe the Bible?
Where was the first blood sacrifice given in the Bible? This should not be too hard.
This will not do any good but you must separate the spiritual from the physical which you and Cliff don't do.
Before I tell you when Adam and Eve got Saved let me ask you if you believe that God told them what Eve quoted to Satan in v2-3 in Gen 3:1-4 or not?
---Elder on 3/26/06


2.
Psalm 138:2b:
for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

In all of this, you're talking about the Word of God which He magnified above all His Name! Shouldn't we be precise in what we say about it? Shouldn't we quote it exactly and refrain from adding to it, subtracting from it, or changing it in any way?

But if you're careless with a simple thing like the spelling of my name, how do you expect to be accurate with the Word of God?
---Jeffrey on 3/26/06


1.
Ramon, the grammar of Mat 27:52 clearly says the saints slept, not the bodies. The Bible says 'death' not 'anihilationism'. Adam's spirit died the day he ate the fruit; his soul died years later. The only mention of separation from God is:

Isaiah 59:2:
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid {his} face from you, that he will not hear.

Notice it's sin that separates us, not death.

Mat 17:9 says the transfiguration was a vision.
---Jeffrey on 3/26/06


cliff.#2(NIV)51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life!!!. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.Again we see cliff "untruths" and his cultic teachings shines again.Cliff did you even read that scripture?It so obvious.The bodies arose!."Hello"!!.
---Ramon on 3/26/06


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1st cliff. Still rejected things in the bible? You still have not answer my questions. You keep saying things not in the bible.When you died nothing leaves the body? Come on cliff, wake up. You dont understand what is "spirtual death" is. You dont understand what is the first death and second death.Still think paul words are from the devil? Still reject the NT and christ words? Still anti-paul?
---Ramon on 3/25/06


jeffery.#5.Ps.6:5,Ps.146 :4, Eccl.8:8.Many of these are languages of appearances related to the body only. (usually from mans view point. Showing the inability to function as we once did with the body.So it does not teach when you die, you know nothing.Yes the "body" from men's point of view.The bible speaks of life afterdeath in countless scriptures.Luke 16 describes a real story about death.I have talk about this when many scriptures, please reread them.
---Ramon on 3/25/06


jeffery.#4.The Bible teaches death is not a cessation of existence!!.Moses' appearance at the Mount of transfiguration proved one exists after they die. Mt. 17:1-8 and Luke 9:28-36 are just a few of the passages on the transfiguration where we find Moses and Elijah appearing on the Mount with Jesus.Moses is consciously alive just like Elijah. Moses couldn't have been resurrected, because Christ is to be the firstfruits of the resurrection and he had not risen yet.
---Ramon on 3/25/06


Ramon; Still quoting things that are not in the bible (seperation from God etc.)A "day" is defined as a "period of time" not 24 hrs.(look it up)Mat 27 "the bodies arose"? no way ,the earthquake was so strong it shook the bodies right out of the ground. (look it up)They became visable (or were seen) by people from the city!
---1st_cliff on 3/25/06


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Jeffery.#3.Colossians 2:13: And when you were dead (separated form God--NOT unconscious)...Ephesians 2:1. this is addressing the spiritual state of someone who was in sin and then made alive spiritually in Christ. (also Revelation 3:1)The unregenerate are dead but they are not unconscious or non existent. Lk.15:24 is said by the Father This my son was dead and is alive again. Jesus was not talking about a bodily but of one who left fellowship with the father.
---Ramon on 3/25/06


Jeffery.#2.In Genesis 2:17, God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will surely die. Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God must have had another type of death in mindspiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8. When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God. The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.
---Ramon on 3/25/06


Jeffery.In Mt.27:52 The scripture writes that at the time of the resurrection of Jesus many Bodies of the saints which slept arose. Notice what slept, the bodies. And the bodies arose, not their souls. The spirit that continues to exists is put back in the body animating it to life. As Paul states in his teaching on the resurrection of the body (1 Cor.15:15-20) Christ is the firstfruits of those that slept.Where does the bible teaches anihilationism?
---Ramon on 3/25/06


Elder; What is burried in the "holes" in the cemetary? Hole=root word of hell,(sheol,hades) People are burried,dead people,plain and simple,awaiting a resurrection! Have you ever seen RIP on the tombstone? Adam is dead. That's your fate if you deny Christ. wages of sin, isn't that complicated? God is not some fiend, like you and satan try to make Him out.You LIVE or you don't! Hello!
---1st_cliff on 3/25/06


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Chapter and verse, Ramon. Where does the Bible say 'the body is asleep'? 1 Thes 4:13 says, 'them which are asleep' not 'bodies which are asleep.' If only bodies die, then all dead animals, since they had souls (Gen 1:21), are still alive.

Where does the Bible say soul is spirit? Where does the Bible say Adam ate an apple? Where does the Bible define death as separation from God?

Acts 2:34a:
For David is not ascended into the heavens
---Jeffrey on 3/25/06


Chapter and verse, Elder. Where does the Bible say Adam got saved? And when his body returned to dust, didn't it cease to exist? There's no body in Adam's grave, only dust.

The first lie: 'Ye shall not surely die:' (Gen 3:4)

Psalm 6:5:
For in death {there is} no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Ecc 9:5:
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
---Jeffrey on 3/25/06


If people cease to exist after death what is buried in all those holes in the grave yard?
Jeffery is Adam dead or alive today?
Remember as I told Cliff Adam got Saved.
(Hint, his body is dead and decayed but Adam is alive.)
---Elder on 3/25/06


jeffery.I alreadly explain EZK 18:4,20 like 10 times alreadly. Your concept of death is wrong.Your Physical life (body) is what ends at death.You dont see dead bodies walking around. And that only!. The bible said that the body is asleep.Not the soul or spirit. The bible does not teach 'soul sleep'.And it does not say when you died, thats your end.its not your end for your inner spiritual part (soul/spirit). When adam ate the apple, its was spiritual death.A Seperation from God.
---Ramon on 3/24/06


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2.
Adam was formed, made, and created body, soul, and spirit. The day he ate the fruit, his spirit died! It ceased to exist!

When you were born again, God created spirit within you as part of you (Eph 4:24). Your spirit can't die because it's incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23). But your soul can die (Ezk 18:4,20).

Death is not separation from anything; it's the termination of life. That which dies, ceases to exist. But God calls the dead asleep (1 Thes 4:13), because He will raise them up.
---Jeffrey on 3/24/06


1.
Cliff, Elder, Ramon, why insult each other? None of you knows the difference between soul and spirit!

Nephesh (soul), Strong's # 5315, is not pneuma, it's psuche, 5590. Pneuma (spirit), 4151, is ruwach, 7307. Nephesh is never translated spirit, and only twice, ghost, as in giving up the nephesh, meaning dying.

Nephesh/psuche/soul is breath life. Ruwach/pneuma/spirit is the image of God. All animals have nephesh; only man has the capacity for pneuma. But Adam lost spirit for all of us.
---Jeffrey on 3/24/06


#3.The OT does not give us the clear picture of what happends afterdeath.The NT however clear the holes and gaps that the OT left behind. You know the one you reject. You cant accept the truth.Even when mountains of scriptures(ot,nt)tells us we do live afterdeath.You cant accept them.You think the NT is false.You are so Anti-Paul and Anti-NT.Everyone sees that.You cant explain the half scriptures i gave you.You accept and follow other false teachers but you reject the NT and paul.
---Ramon on 3/24/06


#2.Both the OT and NT speaks about life after death!.It was not just paul.Jesus spoke about life after death.Even with a real story!!!.But how can you accept it, if you reject the NT? Jesus was not a pharisee!, yet he take about life after death. You made a world of false teachings. Cliff wont accept scriptures.He rejects paul conversion and he rejects that God chose him. Nothing leaves the body? false.Its not found in the bible.Go and fight with jesus,he said we live on!.Wait,you reject the NT
---Ramon on 3/24/06


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cliff.You are wrong on so many levels.You reject the entire NT(please tell me otherwise!).Cliff cant accept the fact that we live afterdeath, both the OT and NT.Not just paul!.Jesus said it.but cliff rejects the NT,so its not odd that he rejects jesus words.Cliff thinks paul words are from the devil and should be taken out of the bible.Do you have a OT only bible,cliff? Do you believe and accept peter's writings? Of couse not,he rejects the NT.Its the bible God's word? explain why or why not.
---Ramon on 3/24/06


The Catholics believe in the Death, Burial and Resurrection. Does that make it wrong? Some use Scriptural beliefs wrongly but that doesn't make the standard wrong.
Cliff doesn't give account of the changed lifestyle of Paul after his salvation and God choosing him. But then again how could he since he thinks the New Testament is error?
Again the question must be asked why does Cliff fight Paul and the Word so hard but says nothing to the Mormons or other Cults?
---Elder on 3/24/06


No Ramon,that's sound advice from Peter! As I told you before,Pharisees believed in "immortal soul" that's why Paul says things like " absent from the body" and "living in this tent" "whether in the body or out of the body" etc.
---1st_cliff on 3/24/06


#2.I Kings 17:20-22(ETC).The body was made from the dusk of the ground. The bible speaks of life afterdeath.This is seen in countless scriptures.See below. When you die, thats not your end.The Bible teaches death is not a cessation of existence, but a separation of existence. The real person will live on(soul).The soul departing Genesis 35:18.Following our fleshly death and the going out of our soul/spirit, we will spend a conscious eternity in one of two places, just as Jesus taught.
---Ramon on 3/23/06


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Cliff there is a scratch in your record Pal.
Your question has been asked and answered so many times before. To answer again would do no good because my answer has not changed from the last time.
Do you think Adam did not get Saved? Where is your Bible knowledge of the Old Testament and how did you miss that event? It is not a concept it is Biblical Truth.
I will tell you if it is something you really want to know and not just debate.
You see the OT Saints got Saved also. Did you know that?
---Elder on 3/23/06


1st cliff.Mans Soul is the means by which he has self-consciousness and is what man becomes and manifests through his physical body.It can be describe as the entire inner part of men in which manifests through the body.A living person.The New Testament clearly teaches that man has a dual nature. Rom. 7:22 and Eph. 3:16.The Apostle Peter spoke of himself as dwelling for awhile in his earthly tabernacle until the time came for him to lay aside his body and depart (2 Peter 1:13-15).Anti-peter too?
---Ramon on 3/23/06


Ramon; I think I have found the problem with your grasping the concept of "being" . It all hinges on the one word "became" Adam became (wasn't given,didn't have but was)a living soul. There's no word in Spanish for "became" Adam adicto,suyo,estar,ser aliving soul Not poseer,obtener,haber or recibir a soul! (alma/animo) Comprender?
---1st_cliff on 3/23/06


Elder;Extremely interesting concept when you make things
"plain" What do you immagine is contained in this "spirit"(pneuma Gr. or nephesh Heb) that returns to God who gave it? When did Adam get "saved"? Where in scripture does it say that a "spirit" of a person is placed in sheol? hades? tarterus? or gehenna? (hell) Do you know the differences?
---1st_cliff on 3/23/06


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#11.You just need to accept the fact.The countles scriptures that states we live afterdeath reflutes your belief.Adam died, i dont see him here, do you? His body went to grave but his spirit returns to lord who gave it!.You need to accept what is the physical and spiritual death is. Whats the first death and second death.When adam died thats was not his end!.Not that nothing leaves the body at death(scriptures?.He rejects the entire NT. He want everyone to doubt the bible.Cont #10.
---Ramon on 3/23/06


Cliff Adam did die the first death. It was separation from his body. His Body was laid in the place sometimes translated Hell but means grave.
His spirit returned to the Lord who gave it.
He has not and will not die the second death and have his spirit placed in that place translated Hell meaning eternal punishment.
The reason he will not is because he got Saved.
It can't get much plainer than that. Accept it or reject it.
---Elder on 3/23/06


#10.When we read scriptures,we need to account the context of the scriptures.We need to compare scriptures with other scriptures.We need to compare it with the NT. Something cliff rejects.But thats where we find Jesus christ, life afterdeath,etc.Cliff rejects pauls writtings."Untrue"?I think not.He dont accept the entire NT.He does not understand what physical death and spiritual death is.Nothing leaves the body?
---Ramon on 3/22/06


#9.Moses' appearance at the Mount of transfiguration proved one exists after they die. Mt. 17:1-8 and Luke 9:28-36 are just a few of the passages on the transfiguration where we find Moses and Elijah appearing on the Mount with Jesus.Moses couldn't have been resurrected, because Christ is to be the firstfruits of the resurrection and he had not risen yet. He had to die first. So this proves that Moses' spirit continued to exist after he died. Elijah didnt experience Physical death.
---Ramon on 3/22/06


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#8.soul/spirit are distinct from the body.This is seen in countless scriptures.The immaterial (spirit/soul).Now lets try to replace the word "soul" with the word "body or flesh.Ezek. 18:4."And the body/flesh that sin will die".obviously we dont physically die when we sin!.When we replace the word "soul" with the word "body" with the scripture I Kings 17:20-22,it does not make sense!!.And countless others. 1 Samuel 28:3-19.existence afterdeath.
---Ramon on 3/22/06


cliff.#7. When God told Adam and Eve that in the day that they ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would die (Genesis 2:16-17); they did not die physically (on that day), but died spiritually, i.e;they were separated from a relationship with God they once enjoyed)(3:8,22-24), and physical death came later. Romans 5:12, oops sorry anti-paul, forgot.the Bible does not teach physical death as meaning the cessation of existence.Spirtual death is seen in the OT/NT.Both!.
---Ramon on 3/22/06


cliff.#6.1 Cor.15:15-20,1Pt.3:19-20,Lk. 23:42(cliff wants to say jesus lie to the men),2 Cor. 5:1-8,1 Thess. 4:14-18, and many others.Which cliff reject the NT anyway, and he cant explain these anyway.All the Old Testament passages need to be interpreted through the New Testament revelation. Without the New Testament teaching what was unrevealed in the Old Testament would stay a mystery as Paul states in 1 Cor.15:51.oops i forgot, anti-paul.Sorry.Jesus said we do live after death.
---Ramon on 3/22/06


Cliff.#5You have no idea whats the difference between Physical death and spiritual death.You reject almost all parts of scriptures.Both the OT and NT tells us we live on afterdeath.
Since you reject the NT, thats only leave OT(which you reject some parts too).The OT does talk about it.Ezek. 18:4,This means that it is spiritual death a separation- not non existence,otherwise they would cease to exist as soon as they sin!.There are many scriptures that say the soul is dead even when someone is alive.
---Ramon on 3/22/06


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cliff.#4.Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body.The NT makes it more clear even with a real story.Read luke 16.But wait you reject the NT.No point in that.Luke 8:54-55.Her spirit didnt die!. This shows without the spirit to animate the body we are dead. This does not mean the spirit is dead or sleeping. In all of the bible we find the spirit/soul entering the body again but never reviving or resurrecting because it already is alive!!.You reject the NT.
---Ramon on 3/22/06


#3.Gen.49:29 Rachel soul was departing and she died. Gen.35:18.Abraham Gen.25:8. Isaac gave up the ghost Gen.35:29.In I Kings 17:20-22:When the widows son died Elijah cried out three times to the LORD and said, O LORD my God, I pray, let this child's soul come back to him. Then the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came back to him, and he revived. This says the soul of the child, it is something he possessed that had left him and live on.He rejects the OT too.
---Ramon on 3/22/06


cliff.#2.You dont understand, and you wont admitt it.Are you in denial?There are other examples of Spiritual death.The Bible teaches death is not a cessation of existence, but a separation of existence.The soul/spirit will live on!!.You keep saying souls/spirit dont live on,its not the Bible!.I have told you countless numbers of scriptures(OT/NT) thats states we do!.Yet you cant expalin them, and wont answer my questions.This shows me you dont have any idea!.You reject the entire NT, tell me otherwise?
---Ramon on 3/22/06


cliff.spiritual death!.1 Tim 5:6. This does not mean one is a walking corpse in the physical body but they are dead in their spirit from sin and trespasses.The term death which is thanatas in Greek, does not mean to be non-existence or unconscious, it rather means to be separated.Colossians 2:13.Ephesians 2:1.Spirtual death mean separated form God because of sin, so you "die" in sin.Matt. 26:38.He was not saying his soul was going to die and go to sleep.
---Ramon on 3/22/06


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Elder; You claim that Adam's body died (gen 5.4) Scripture doesn't say , so if just the body died what could his death be but "figurative? since you don't believe in literal death(dict=cestation of life) What are you're trying to say of Ez.18? vs 5 says about a "righteous" man vs.9 "shall live" this no way "negates" vs.4 the key word is "shall"(alternative is shall not!) What's your point? If you die doesn't being resurrected mean you "shall" live?
---1st_cliff on 3/22/06


Cliff does your lips utter falsehoods and your eyes deceive you too? I never said "figuratively" any such thing as you claim. And you tell us we are not reading what you wrote.
I asked if Adam died the Second death? And your answer was.............. coming, I guess as soon as you make something up.
Cond #2
---Elder on 3/22/06


Cond #2
As far as Ezekiel 18:4 goes you must still be in that "One Verse a Month Club."
Get someone to read that "but" word to you in verse 5 and then read on through verse 9 where God says that those who walk in His statutes, Judgements, deal truly and are just shall live.
Try to get to "Never Perish" in John 3:16....oh, forgot, you don't accept the New Testament.
Cond #3
---Elder on 3/22/06


Cond #3
You don't understand physical and spiritual death nor the First and Second death.
Death (Muth) and Perish (Abad) is different.
II Pet 3:9 God is not willing that any should "perish" (NT Apollumi) even though they may "die" Heb 9:27 (NT Apothnesko).
If I were Joseph Campbell you would listen to me but then I wouldn't be telling the truth either.
---Elder on 3/22/06


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#2..Adam was told, to disobey wold result in his death. He disobeyed (you say,not the bible) that he died the 1st death then (figuratively) Gen 5.4 says he lived 930yrs then he died. You say figuratively he died the 2Nd death,but in reality he never died at all but went to hell-fire,where he's still alive! Satan is the one that told eve "you will not surely die." I believe the scripture, it's obvious who you believe! Protect them from untruth?
---1st_cliff on 3/22/06


Elder; Errors untruths and twisting Scriptures? What do you call this? Both you and Ramon say the soul never dies,yet Ez. 18.4 says "the soul that sinnith will die".Nowhere (except the Book of Mormon) does it say the soul is "immortal" So you reject the bible in favor of thr Bof M! Now protect the million plus from this truth! cont..
---1st_cliff on 3/22/06


Cliff you say flak? Was it you who said you reject Paul or did someone make that up? Is it you who refuses to answer simple questions or is the Moderator cutting you?
I asked if you believe Rom 10:9-13 is true since by your own statements you reject the writings of Paul. Did you answer?
Cond #2
---Elder on 3/21/06


Cond #2
Please tell me one positive thing you have posted so I can ask your forgiveness for saying I have never read anything.
Is the problem with everyone else or is there some problem with you?
Your comments are not truth seeking but condemning.
Cond #3
---Elder on 3/21/06


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Cond #3
If there were not a million plus readers that come on ChristiaNet I would have never said as much as I have. But, since there is my duty is to them to expose your errors, untruths and twisting of Scripture.
You have stated that you reject the entire New Testament should I/We allow them to believe they can also?
You said if a person was not an eye witness to an event he could not write about it in the Bible. Again, did Adam write Genesis or did Moses?
Flak? I think not.
---Elder on 3/21/06


#16."cliff don't believe this or that, try to confuse, work for satan nothing positive etc. etc." You dont believe certain stuff in the bible.Upset because everybody knows it?upset because you know the bible refutes your beliefs?You quote before 1Tim.2.6,yet you calling everybody paulites.This is not a "flak" but reality!.You dont want to accept the teachings of the bible.You know you reject paul's writings.You dont believe the clear teachings of the bible, hoping no one will notice?
---Ramon on 3/21/06


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