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What Is The Strong Delusion

The Scriptures speak of the time of strong delusion in 2nd Thessalonians 2:10-12. This strong delusion is sent by God because the people believed not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. What is your idea of what this strong delusion is?

Moderator - It is happening as we speak through the Prosperity, Seeker-Friendly, Liberal and Ecumenical false gospels that are taking over Christianity.

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 ---mima on 3/16/06
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Mark_V.:

Those Jesus condemned were BELIEVERS - in fact, big shots boasting of doing many great miracles and wonders in his name. His judgment here is NOT based on whether someone believes or not - but on whether one does the will of the father (feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, comforting the oppressed, etc.)

Many unbelievers do these things, and put many believers to shame:
Romans 2:14-15:
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,
---StrongAxe on 3/11/11


Strongaxe, No, it would mean they were believers. The ones that did not know "they had done" something for Christ, didn't realize they had rewards coming. But they did.
The ones that did not do anything for Christ, they are found in verse 44. They also ask when were you hungry or thirsty, and he said to them,
"Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you "did not" do it to one of the least of these, you "did not" do it to Me"

"And these will go away to everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life"
---Mark_V. on 3/11/11


....bit hard to get your head around if as an Armenian you believe Salvation is of your own free choice...
---richard on 3/11/11


Mark_V.:

Precisely. Wouldn't believers AREADY KNOW that helping someone in need is tantamount to helping Jesus? Therefore, since these people DID NOT KNOW this, wouldn't that mean they were unbelievers?
---StrongAxe on 3/11/11


Strongaxe, this people who were saved who ask Jesus "when did we see You (Jesus) hungry?"
They heard what Jesus had said but did not understand His words until Jesus explained it to them in v. 40 when He said,
"Assurely, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me"
When they had helped others, or sacrificed themselves for others they were sacrificing for Christ and didn't realized it.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/11




Mark_V.:

Then please explain how those people did not think themselves worthy of a reward? If they were believers, surely they would already know that they have it coming?
---StrongAxe on 3/10/11


larry---//my conservative christian friends (if there is such a thing)
Such a thing as what? Conservative Christians or Conservative Christians that are your friends? Are trying to make a point of some kind?

//conservative Christians... who've swallowed whole the 2012 end of the world nonsense.//

Christians are Christians..."conservative" or "liberal" are irrelevant here (unless you want to define them). A few Christians did wonder if 2012 could be the year the Lord returns. But most discount the idea because prophesy doesn't seem to support it.
---Donna66 on 3/9/11


For me the most frightening aspect of the strong delusion that leads to the great apostasy of the Last Days, is that, somehow, this lethal distortion of the Christian Faith will remain completely undetected!
---Lutherist on 3/9/11


Strongaxe, the passage cannot possibly say what you said. There is "no righteous unbelievers" in Scripture. If they are righteous, they have been imputed with the righteousness of Christ and are saved, otherwise they are self-righteous unbelievers. And self-righteous unbelievers don't get any rewards. Maybe you made a mistake in writing? I do some times.
---Mark_V. on 3/9/11


Mark_V:

In Matthew 25, note that those that Jesus rewards are those who do not believe that they deserve them, and those who are condemned are those who do not believe they should be condemned. In other words, those who he rewards are righteous unbelievers, while those he condemns are wicked, self-righteous believers.
---StrongAxe on 3/9/11




I believe that the "Strong Delusion" is the great lie of Satan... "I will be like God". This is Satan's personal delusion, it is the delusion in which he tempted Adam and Eve, and it is the same delusion in which Satan has corrupted the Church. "I will be like God","I will be like Christ"... it is the same lie out of the same mouth. Even though scripture clearly teaches that God alone is holy, and clearly emphasizes of the eternal uniqueness of Christ Jesus our Savior, most Christians believe in a blasphemous personal Christlike transformation.
---Rick on 3/9/11


\\Give not that which is holy to dogs, neither put your pearls before swine, else they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rip you.\\

And as we see, that's exactly what Eloy does when given sound doctrine and truth.
---Cluny on 3/8/11


\\Is believe in a post tribulation rapture to be considered a possibility? may be.\\

Then Jesus Himself was deluded, as He taught a post-trib rapture.

\\There are many delusions but the Bible speaks of a great delusion. One comforting thought is that if you're a member of the church you will never fall under the sway of the great delusion.\\

That's right. Because there's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture, as the true Church has never taught it.
---Cluny on 3/8/11


Strongaxe, I disagree with your answer for the simple reason that God will open the book of works and judge everyone by what is written in them. The believers at the Bema Seat of Christ, where their bad works will be burn and they be rewarded for the good things they did.
The unbelievers will be judge for their rejection of Christ at the Great White Throne of Judgment, and by the works they did in life, and they will be judge righteously. For the good they did was also sin, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God and were not thankful.
---Mark_V. on 3/9/11


Eloy a false prophet?

No, just the Charlie Sheen of CN.

Sorry for the 'diss'.
---scott on 3/8/11


"but God which which introduced of his love toward us, because besides being of the offenders, of us Christ for us died. Give not that which is holy to dogs, neither put your pearls before swine, else they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rip you. Repay no person evil for evil. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but give space to wrath: For it is written, Vengeance is mine: I will repay, says the Lord. Therefore if your enemy hunger, feed him: if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."
---Eloy on 3/8/11


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\\Eloy, you are a false prophet. Naming yourself after God doesnt change that.
---Jasheradan on 3/8/11\\

Eloy is not a false prophet, as he simply doesn't rise up to that level.

He is merely sinuously dissing unsaved clay who has no light in him, and can't even handle the English language properly, as you see with his misuse of "who" and "whom."
---Cluny on 3/8/11


In pasted discussions of this subject the "great delusion" I have heard several different ideas.
1. Could globalization be a possibility? I believe it could be.
2. Is tolerance or compromise a possibility, maybe.
Is believe in a post tribulation rapture to be considered a possibility? may be.
There are many delusions but the Bible speaks of a great delusion. One comforting thought is that if you're a member of the church you will never fall under the sway of the great delusion.
---mima on 3/8/11


Eloy:

You said: The lie that Almighty God loves sinners and those whom do wickedness, and the lie that the antiChrist is Christ. What marvelous thing it is to be deceived into believing in falsehood.

Paul said in Romans 5:8:
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Jesus said in Luke 6:35:
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

(I have added underlines for emphasis)

Which of these three authorities should we believe?
---StrongAxe on 3/8/11


Mima, if you want to know and see the "TRUTH," all you need to do is tune into the TBN, and DAYSTAR TELEVISION NETWORKS.
---Rob on 3/8/11


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But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Eloy, you are a false prophet. Naming yourself after God doesnt change that.
---Jasheradan on 3/8/11


The lie that Almighty God loves sinners and those whom do wickedness, and the lie that the antiChrist is Christ. What marvelous thing it is to be deceived into believing in falsehood.
---Eloy on 3/7/11


Moderator - It is happening as we speak through the Prosperity, Seeker-Friendly, Liberal and Ecumenical false gospels that are taking over Christianity.
The moderator has a point but add a disturbing amount of my conservative christian friends (if there is such a thing) who've swallowed whole the 2012 end of the world nonsense. Pastors are calling for a deeper relationship with God while foolish discussions ensue in parking lots concerning Wormwood.
The delusion however concerns those outside the faith who are happy to retain their status and pursue an eternity in torture with Belzebub.
---larry on 3/7/11


richard:

Even 9/11 (that killed thousands), the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (that killed hundreds of thousands), or the Holocaust and Stalin's starving of the Ukraine (that killed millions) are insignificant compared to the calamities of the tribulation. Things will be so bad that MORE THAN ONE THIRD of all alive will die (Revelation 8:11, 9:18). That's over two BILLION people - the equivalent of TWENTY THREE THOUSAND Hiroshima-class bombs.


Mark_V:

At the Final Judgment, Jesus will judge us based on our demonstration of love of others (Matthew 25:31-46), not on our theologically correct acceptance of six specific doctrinal bullet points.
---StrongAxe on 3/7/11


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The great lie is manifesting itself as we speak. The great lie is that God does not exist, it will only take an extraterrestrial influence upon the lost to settle the matter in their minds. Every Christian knows that the time is near... so does satan. Looks at the ways he is going to explain away the events of the wrath of God in the very near future (book of Revelations). Nibiru, Annunaki, etc etc.

Of course these extraterrestrials wont be at all what they appear to be. They are the fallen host of heaven.
---Jasheradan on 3/6/11


Jesus said the "abomination"etc would happen in a period of great tribulation such like was never seen before in the world or since....what happened in ad70 was nothing compared to Hiroshima...the time for tribulation begins when Israel (the nation of) signs the peace treaty with a great world leader who it turns out is Anti-christ.Watch the news..
---richard on 1/11/11

You keep looking for the Lord Richard. Some change scripture I should say most these days to what they need it to say personally or politically.
Throw/burn the commentaries ....(look how confused the readers/writers of them are). Listen/believe to the 2 or more witnesses Prophets/Apostles/Christ in scripture that always agree upon a matter.
---Trav on 1/11/11


Jesus said the "abomination"etc would happen in a period of great tribulation such like was never seen before in the world or since....what happened in ad70 was nothing compared to Hiroshima...the time for tribulation begins when Israel (the nation of) signs the peace treaty with a great world leader who it turns out is Anti-christ.Watch the news..
---richard on 1/11/11


people love delusion because it lets them do what they want to do. It speaks to the flesh and lets the flesh be 'boss". You can attend church and be accountable to no one. You can come late and leave early. No consequences. Don't give to the church,don't fellowship with others. Don't even attend church. What do one care? They are delusional and still believe they are christians and in the faith. Delusions are very subtle and leads one straight to hell.
---Robyn on 1/10/11


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Richard //....but if the churches out there are bring false gospels - were do you gather I would think to his word.By reading the Bible.

NOt all churches fail to preach the gospel even within the same denomination. Some have even come to faith after hearing the gospel in Roman Catholic churches, however, all churches are imperfect in some ways.

Instead of concentrating on what churches preach, you need to seek the Lord and His will in your own studies of the Bible and with good commentaries.

As to the coming delusion, people can always find excuses for not accepting what God is telling them.

I do believe that prior to the coming of Christ, the harvest that is to be gathered will be complete.
---leej on 1/10/11


LEEJ 2 Thessalonians I been working on I do not think I got down right yet - I do put down explanation of a verse with the hope of getting another point of veiw.

--- gather unto together unto him ---- but if the churches out there are bring false gospels - were do you gather I would think to his word.By reading the Bible.
---RICHARD on 1/9/11


The strongest delusion will be not believing in the total depravity or inability of man, unconditional Election, Particular Redemption or Limited Atonement, the effficacious call of the Spirit or irresistible Grace, and the perseverance of the Saints by the power of God. For there is many who do not believe those principles since they believe they can save themselves with their own (works) their own free will. But God says, "without Me you can do nothing"
---Mark_V. on 1/9/11


2 Thess. 2:1-2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying the day of the Lord has already come.

Richard, the verses addresses the false teaching that the day of the lord has already come.

I can see this as from a preterist standpoint, many of the prophecies of Christ -the defilement of the Temple and its destruction, etc. had already been fulfilled.

The Romans mocked the Jewish religion by setting up idols in the Temple, proclaiming Caesar as god and sacrificing pigs on the altars.

Suggest: 'Revelation 4 views' a parallel commentary by Steve Gregg.
---leej on 1/8/11


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Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not,

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains, and let them which are in the midst of it depart out, and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


This abominationis not a pig sacrifice ir is the ROMAN ARMY
---francis on 1/8/11


If you can pick up LakewoodChurch, Houston Texas. Pastor Joel Osteen. That is the perfect example. People want to attend church when they want and not be accountable to anyone. They don't have to serve,show love to anyone or fellowship with anyone. How is this possible? The church is so huge. When you attend you don't have to speak to anyone. You can hide and still be entertained. Leave the church thinking you have done your christian duty. When you have done this you have been deluded. There are many churches like this of today.
---Robyn on 1/8/11


LEEJ - READ 2 THESSALONIANS 2:1 -- gather unto together unto him - ( I would think that would be to his word not the churches they have become apostate, - when you read end time verses in the Bible, The word congergation
changes to assembling
ourselves together.)

REVELATION 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying Come out of her be not partakers of her sins,and that ye receive not her plagues.
---RICHARDC on 1/8/11


CraigA, Yes, that is what Matt:24:5 says. Many will come in my name....

And yes you are correct, a house divided against itself cannot and will not stand. This is why the Kingdom of the World will beome the Kingdom of Heaven. Rev. 11:15. Also if you are looking for truth, read Rev. 13 for a very clear look at what Satan will soon be doing to deceive the nations.
---barb on 1/7/11


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richard //2 thess 2: verse 1 tells us we are to be *gathered together* to Jesus, verse 4 tells us that the abomonation that makes desolate will sit in the holy place ...

When the Romans under Titus/Vespasian overran Jerusalem, they did sacrifice pigs in the Temple and made a mockery of the Jew's religion before burning the city to the ground.

Too many of the prophecies of Jesus found in Matthew already had their fulfillment in 70 A.D.
---leej on 1/7/11


2 thess 2: verse 1 tells us we are to be *gathered together* to Jesus, verse 4 tells us that the abomonation that makes desolate will sit in the holy place and go'es on to say that He who stops this lawlessness being manifest will be *taken out of the way*(meaning of course that God will allow this strong delusion to judge those who do not love the truth)...its another example of Pre-trib doctrine,a mystery to look into!
---richard on 1/7/11


Humanism, Liberalism and all the other ism's and skizim's of society.

YAHWEH RULES!
---Carla on 1/6/11


-- Many will come saying Jesus is the Christ and will lead many astray, thinking they are following Jesus when if fact they are following Satan. --

Huh?

Satan will claim that Jesus is the Christ?

And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end

And check out 1 John 4:3... the spirit of antichrist DENIES Jesus is the CHrist
---CraigA on 1/6/11


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The delusion is that Satan will masquerade as Jesus Christ and many will believe that Satan is Christ. Rev. 13:6-14. Satan will stand in the temple (soon to be rebuilt) in Jerusalem. Matt:24:15. Satan will perform many signs and wonders and many will be deceived.

That is why Jesus told us to see to it that we are not deceived. Many will come saying Jesus is the Christ and will lead many astray, thinking they are following Jesus when if fact they are following Satan.
---barb on 1/5/11


The delusion is that they will believe God does not exist. And when the antichrist comes along they will believe every word he says.
---CraigA on 1/1/11


Agreed.
---char on 1/3/11


This is the strong delusion.


T Teaching that
U Undermines the character of a
L Loving God,
I Indicting Him for the
P- Problems in this sinful world, because He would be guilty of predestining everything,
---kathr4453 on 1/3/11


The following is one that is not recognized by the followers of the televangelists.
2 Thess.2:10-13
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Psalm 62:9
[9] Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.

They are allowed to believe a lie, or man of high degree like the heretics on television begging money and talking foolishness.
---Frank on 1/2/11


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//What is your idea of what this strong delusion is?

I can see that when the majority of churches become apostate and no longer preach the gospel, that when a few genuine Christians disappear, they will be able to offer a good explanation for their disappearance.

I for one, do not believe we can find a mathematical formula like what the Adventists and others have done, that will predict the second coming of Christ.

Christ will only come when the harvest is finished, not before and that will depend upon whether there are still laborers in His fields.
---leej on 1/1/11


The delusion is that they will believe God does not exist. And when the antichrist comes along they will believe every word he says.
---CraigA on 1/1/11


Man will eventually enter upon some belief-right or wrong- then will receive what God promises for either decision.
This applies today and is an example for us to follow.
---Billy_Benson on 12/31/10


alan of UK -
2Th 2:1-3 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.... i.e. the AntiChrist.
I guess the delusion would be to deny the "falling away" as it happens. We are to recognize it, but not become part of it.
---Donna66 on 12/31/10


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Alan: as far as I can tell (knowing Greek) the term "from the entire Oikoumene" does not automatially HAVE to mean the Christian empire - it can also mean any other group - it's just that the churches that use Greek (the old churches based in Alexandria, Jerusalem, Damascus and Istambul) tend to use it that way

And no, I see no way to use ecumenical in a bad way - unless the moderator means a gospel that is meant to unite all Christians in error. Maybe?
---peter3594 on 12/31/10


I asked elsewhere what ecumenism is, and this seemd to be the best definition (from Cluny)

The proper meaning of "ecumenical" is "from the entire Oikoumene" or Christian empire

I just wonder how that can be part of the Strong Delusion
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/27/10


The moderator is right in answering this.
---Frank on 12/27/10


catherine-- You may not be able to see that God will send delusions to people but He WILL. The scripture says so:

2Th 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


It's one of those things in scripture that we can't quite imagine, like God "hardening Pharoah's heart".
But when the Bible says He did, we can hardly argue that He didn't.
---Donna66 on 12/26/10


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MODERATOR AWESOME POST..WOW!
I mean you guys a so right -on in your posts it gives me encouragement to know their really are other Christians out there! I don't know what church you go to but... WOW!

And that's coming from the most critical and politically incorrect poster on your site.
(as you well know :)

DON'T QUIT THE GOOD FIGHT!
---John on 12/26/10


MODERATOR - It happening as we speak -----------

IT'S actually wider then the than the prosperity gospels seeker - friendly gospels etc.there seem to be a stumbling block the churches fall into, and that is, there trusting in there own works - weather it be water baptism - repenting - or confession of faith or any work a person is doing - and people are blindly trusting in there church teaching,and not the word of GOD.

Now in 2 THESSALONIANS 2,4 that word sitteth means to rule in the temple of God - And that would mean all churches.God gives up on the churches and lets satan take over,

There is a study out there that says, this has already taken place.
---RICHARD on 12/26/10


The Scriptures speak of the time of strong delusion in 2nd Thessalonians 2:10-12. This strong delusion is sent by God because the people believed not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. What is your idea of what this strong delusion is?

Moderator - It is happening as we speak through the Prosperity, Seeker-Friendly, Liberal and Ecumenical false gospels that are taking over Christianity.


Remedy:

1. The 1560 Geneva Bible (translated by Protestant scholars)

2. William Tyndale's exhortations

3. The Protestant Reformer Iohn Foxe's book The Actes and Monuments of Martyrs 1583 edition.

The Protestant English refugees knew what they were talking about.
---Kev on 12/21/10


The son of perdition is explained in John chapter 17 and refers to Judas and the spirit he operated in. Judas means "praise" and Judas betrayed. He was the praise that betrayed Jesus by going out and hanging himself, trying to do in remorse what Jesus would have done for him if he had waited. In other words, Jesus' hanging was Judas' hanging but Judas tried to do it himself.

Moderator - The Son of Perdition wasn't Judas as the Son of Perdition is yet to come. Judas wasn't THE Anti-Christ, but an anti-christ.
---Paulie on 3/12/08


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I don't see where God sent these strong delutions. He is going to leave these people take His grace from these people and allow them to follow after their own lusts, which will be their own ruin.
---catherine on 5/2/07


Taken in the context of the beginning of chapter 2, the brethren are being warned to not be soon shaken, or troubled that the day of Christ is at hand. The deception (lie) is that the day of Christ will come before the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God and sits in the TEMPLE as God, showing himself that he is God.
---Paulie on 5/2/07


Deceit, fraud and lies require your co-operation. Now since everyone seems to like lies, surely you shouldn't mind the ingredient that will assure your participation. It is only more of what you have shown you prefer in your life. Waht's the problem?
---jhonny on 8/8/06


I agree with the Moderator. God is giving Christians over to their own lustful desires of what they wrongly believe.
---Helen_5378 on 8/4/06


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The strong delusion is fraud. God sends the "strong delusion" that they should believe "a lie" Gk. "fraud". Satan loves to take the credit for anything God does.
---jhonny on 8/4/06


In Deuteronomy the Lord told Moses that if a prophet prohesied to lead the children of Israel to serve idols it is because he was trying their hearts to see if they really loved him. He is more than capable to send preachers that will speak by their own heart or spirit to lead those astray that do not love him. He can reserve them to darkness to be punished. If they want their own life and this world he can supply preachers to preach it and in delusion reserve them for hell.
---Frank on 7/8/06


ezuch, you have taken a lot of verses out of context and mismatched them together into false doctrines. Jesus even said there are good trees and bad trees, he did not say there are all bad trees. The Word says, ..."Do not be deceived, the righteous are righteous even as Christ is righteous...Well done you good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of the Lord." If there is no one good, as you wrongly profess (as well as many misled profess), then why did God lie and say that there are?
---Eloy on 5/13/06


All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God,there is none good no not one,by the deeds of the law none can be saved only by faith in the shed blood of Jesus, It is impossible to please God without faith, that is why the gospel must be preached people are perishing hell hath inlarged itself, people perish for lack of knowledge of the Son of God.
---exzuc6636 on 5/12/06


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lee, that's not a delusion: "WHO RENDERS TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: Glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves: which show the work of the law written in their hearts." Romans 2:6,10,11,14,15.
---Eloy on 5/12/06


Eloy - another great delusions within the church today is that there is salvation for those that do not even believe in Christ but have good works and that is something our largest denomination is preaching.
---lee on 5/12/06


One of the greatest delusions within the church is the "love gospel" promoted by the "sin-supporters" and "faith-only" people. This lie says, "God loves me know matter what I do or say." But the truth is, God has perfect hatred and made a real hell for these who live in sin rather than live in Christ. Another delusion is that all go to heaven, no matter what they worship, for every religion's god is the same as christianity's, they just call him by a different name.
---Eloy on 5/11/06


The stong delusion is that people will believe fables looking for the Anti-christ and their doctrine will cause persecution of the true church they will never Know they are Anti-christ and think they are doing good by eliminating these heritics. It is the same plan the Anti-christ has always used. He does not like people like me.
---Exzucuh on 5/10/06


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The strong delusion is Rev. 10:1. The appearance of Satan as the counterfeit messiah
---josef on 5/10/06


I"m born in the USA, living now in the southwest, but I came to this conclusion 20 years ago in my home in the southeast. A careful reading of Matthew 13, Matthew 23-26, and the other Gospel parallels should make it plain that 1 Thess 5 is talking about the SAME THING. The only difference is that Jesus said His coming down and gathering His saints will take place AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Moderator - You seem to have more of an international prospective. What denomination are you most closely affliated to?
---Jack on 5/10/06


I believe the "strong delusion" is that there's a Pre-trib rapture.

Moderator - I am afraid you might be right. What country are you from and what denomination? Is your way of thinking the norm or exception in your neck of the woods?
---Jack on 5/10/06


Christ tells us in Luke 21:36 to "Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." Peace is Christ's message (Matthew 5:43-44) not war. Don't follow war mongerors just because the Anitchrist will be preaching peace. Follow Christ's true message so that you may stand before Him.
---Sam on 4/10/06


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God requires that each person have a love for the truth. A wanting to know the right way in Christ. If men shall desire the truth, the Lord will always have the truth available. People who have not desired the truth of the Gospel will receive the Antichrist.
---Fred_S. on 3/17/06


So many trying to beat their flesh into submission when all we need is to know this, that the old man is dead, reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God, and then yield our members. To love the truth is to love the person and work of Christ, to trust that what He did in redemption was enough to take care of everything released in Adam and everything the new man would need to live.
---Paulie on 3/16/06


The place he went out into was outer darkness (he went out and it was night). The lie that is spoken of in chapter 2, I believe, is the same lie as from the beginning...that we could do ourselves what Jesus has already done in reconciliation and redemption. Man can't crucify himself. That is something that has to be done by another.
---Paulie on 3/16/06


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