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Cursed If You Don't Tithe

If the church was honest they would admit that tithe is not a new testiment principle. I have heard preachers say that you are cursed if you don't tithe. I even heard one say that because a man did not give tithe to the church that God gave his wife bad arthiritis. Is this true?

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Preachers who try to place others under the curse of the law violate Romans 8:1-17 and Galatians 1:6-9. Tithes were paid on some Israeli grown vegetables, and some Israeli raised domesticated animals (Leviticus 27:30-32), by Israelites in Israel. Tithes were paid to Levites, Numbers 18:21, 24. Levites paid a tithe to the Priests, Numbers 18:26-28. Tithes were not accepted from some sinners, Deuteronomy 23:18. Tithes were not paid on money owed, Matthew 5:23-24. Tithes were salaries and were approximately equal to the median salary. The second tithe(s), and the several offerings may have exceeded 30%. Christians give voluntary offerings and alms with joy.
p.s. Acts 13:39, Romans 3:20, 28, Galatians 2:16, 3:10-13.
---Glenn on 6/6/09


a servant Please furnish scripture that states you tithe on "one's increase." The scriptures read you tithe on the increase of the land, NOT one's increase. In fact, the word "increase" in the scriptures is translated from a Hebrew word meaning "increase of crops." In the tithing formula, man has replaced God with himself. Church leaders have essentially diluted The Lord's Tithe from God's miracles to man's achievements. That happened in the nineteenth century when church leaders made the mistake of thinking the Israelites tithed on income. The fact is, they tithed on assets that came from God.
---Gary on 6/6/09


a servant if the tithe is on the increase of ones money why didn't Israel tithe of the increase of their money?
---Ryan_Z on 3/13/08


To tithe is from God. He did not consult me.

One's tithe was to come from one's "increase", whether of crops, beasts, or gifts. Still in effect in a non cash economy.

Our increase is $$$. Nowhere does God say, "Because your increase is dollars, you do not have to tithe."

Levites were servants to the priest - Num 18.
Priests / pastors have those who serve with them today. Perhaps to you, not calling them Levites is justification to withhold Jesus' tithe.
---a_servant on 3/12/08


My explanation is clear. Heb 7:2-3 clarifies who & what Melchesidek is.

"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life"

"made like to the Son of God, stays a priest continually"

Gen 14 shows what he did.

If you need more clarity, perhaps you should ask God.
---a_servant on 7/19/07




Servant you say "A priest like Jesus, He does not die."
Did you know Jesus is a High Priest, Do you know the order?
All priests have an order.
What order would you suggest, since you show a penchant for renaming things.
---jhonny on 7/19/07


Servant. You mention Melchizedek priesthood and you mention the levite priesthood. Now you have been mentioning pastors and church workers ciollecting on behalf of jesus. Q. Under the auspices of what priesthood? You say the Jesus priesthood. What priesthood is that, or are you taught that no priesthood is required maybe.
---jhonny on 7/19/07


a sevant, Christs was a priest in the order of Milchesedek becasue like Milchesedek His lneage was not of the blood line of AAron. If you continue to read in Hebrews it makes this very clear.
---Ryan_Z on 7/19/07


-1-
Heb 7:2 ...Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being by interpretation King of righteousness...also King of Salem, which is, King of peace,
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like to the Son of God, stays a priest continually.

This describes Melchesidek as a similitude of the Son (known as the Word in Heaven, Jesus on earth). This is why I said Melchesidek = Jesus. A priest like Jesus, He does not die.
---a_servant on 7/19/07


-2-
"Can we then conclude correctly (by elimination) that pastors(church workers) are functioning under the auspices of the Melchizedek priesthood by collecting the tithe."

I responded saying No, because I would not call receiving tithes once, a priesthood.

Melchesidek did not receive ongoing tithes, the Levites did. Jesus now receives our ongoing tithes, collected by pastors (church workers).
---a_servant on 7/19/07




You do ask many questions like a child who is curious.

I created a profile so that I could answer your questions outside the blog. If you still want me to respond to your questions, I am a_3738.

I did not want to hog the blog. Simple answers won't suffice for some of your questions. They need to be answered in layers.
---a_servant on 7/19/07


#1 a servant, I see you do not wish to delve further into this or other conversations with me. You claim that I am immature and I need to seek. I would say to you that if that is the case you have just complimented me because then I am, "coming to the Father as a little child." so I am therefore following the teaching of God.
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


#2 a servant, I would warn you about the boasting you do in how you give and your attitude that you are more mature than others. God bless you brother and I do hope you continue to pray on these matters and seek the truth.
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


You used to call it the Melchizedek priesthood now you call it the jesus priesthood. Are you still referring to the same priesthood or are you identifying another priesthood. When people make stuff up it slows things down to clarify. That is if there is a consensus to discover or pursue the truth, as opposed to,-cloak the truth to sustain the party line.
---jhonny on 7/18/07


Jesus Priesthood is my term.

Hebrews 9 explains the temporary nature of the former priesthood, and the eternal nature of Jesus' Priesthood.
---a_servant on 7/18/07


Ryan Z
Just as a curious 2 yr old asks many questions, so do you. But just as the young one will have his questions answered over time & experience, so will you.

Perhaps now is the time for you to submit yourself to extended prayer & Bible study so that God will teach you these things -- and many others.

Tithe is on your gain, your increase, regardless the source of gain. If you have no gain, you do not tithe, e.g., if you have no income, you don't pay taxes.
---a_servant on 7/18/07


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Servant i picked up on the same incongurity as Ryan, which is why I asked about the Jesus priesthood. I'm tempted to call it double talk, but expect your response will clarify. No need to answer both of us. Answer Ryan would be fine.
---jhonny on 7/18/07


What is the Jesus priesthood? Do you have a scripture?
---jhonny on 7/18/07


#1 a servant **They were in punishment & had to rely on God's daily manna from Heaven to live. They could not farm or ranch in the wilderness, so they could not create an increase.**

Didn't they plunder Egypt of gold and silver and riches? Funny that we have Abram tithng of his spoils but over 400 years later Israel does not tithe of their spoils, don't you think? If Abram set the precident why didn't his descendents follow suite?
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


#2 a servant, Can you give an example of Jacob tithing? He made the vow but no where in scripture do we read of the fulfillment of the vow.
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


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a servant **"why Israel did not tithe during their 40 years in the desert"

They were in punishment & had to rely on God's daily manna from Heaven to live. They could not farm or ranch in the wilderness, so they could not create an increase.**

So if you are poor and have no increase and you are being punished by God you do not need to tithe?
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


a servant **No. There was no Melchizedek priesthood, just one tithe to Him.**

Now you are really getting confusing becasue you also stated this:

**(Melchizedek = Jesus)**

So was Christ of the Melchizedek priesthood? Or was Melchizedek Christ? Or was Melchizedek of the Christ priesthood? But now you say there is no Melchizedek priesthood? Yet you make Melchizedek and Christ equal. I am confused.
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


a servant **In Gen 14, Abram gave tithes on ALL: i.e., "goods" and people (captured), not just agricultural.**

Abram tithed from the spoils of war and kept not a thing. Can you give an example of Abram/Abraham tithing of his personal wealth? Since, according to you, Abram set the precident for us to tithe of our income you should be able to support it from scripture.
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


#1 a servant **Tithe is on whatever God gives us (paycheck).**

Is it just whatever God gives us or our paycheck? Because now you have 2 different things.
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


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# 2 a servant, Let's say it is everything He gives us, should we tithe of our children? Should every tenth child we are given be given to God as a tithe? Or what of friends? Should every tenth friend He gives us be offered as a tithe?
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


#3 a servant, Let's say you plant a garden every year do you tithe of your increase from your garden becasue it is what GOd has given you? Or is the tithe just on money? If so show me where God says, "Tithe 10% of your net (Becasue that is your increase)" Or does God only give us a paycheck?
---Ryan_Z on 7/18/07


"why Israel did not tithe during their 40 years in the desert"

They were in punishment & had to rely on God's daily manna from Heaven to live. They could not farm or ranch in the wilderness, so they could not create an increase.
---a_servant on 7/17/07


"changed the tithe from the agricultural goods"

In Gen 14, Abram gave tithes on ALL: i.e., "goods" and people (captured), not just agricultural.

Jacob used a pilar to symbolize a covenant with God, which was he vowed a tenth to God (before the Law) on ALL God gave him - Gen 28:22

Tithe is on whatever God gives us (paycheck).
---a_servant on 7/17/07


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-1-
"Can we then conclude correctly (by elimination) that pastors(church workers) are functioning under the auspices of the Melchizedek priesthood by collecting the tithe."

No. There was no Melchizedek priesthood, just one tithe to Him.

We are functioning under the Real Priesthood, the Jesus Priesthood, which replaced the symbolic Levitical priesthood, which was for our learning, to point us to the Jesus Priesthood.

He is our Advocate, our Sacrifice, our Savior, etc.
---a_servant on 7/17/07


-2-
One cannot have the Spirit and desire to not tithe.

Those who gave a tenth before the Law, did so by the Spirit. We must remember that God gives us EVERYTHING we have.

He has given the more valuable ETERNAL Spiritual life to us.

Is it such a big deal to return to Him a less valuable tithe, of the increase that He ALSO gave us?

1 Cor 9:11 If we sowed unto you spiritual things, is it a great matter if we shall reap your carnal things?
---a_servant on 7/17/07


Calhoon, If your reason for not tithing is because of the greedy pastors, then take your tithe before the LORD and ask Him where He would like for you to "invest" it. Maybe you could use it to help some poor person in your neighbourhood. Or send some to Compassion Intl. Not ALL Christian Missions are full of scam artists. You, I and ALL Saints are commanded to tithe to help in The LORD's work on Earth. If any Saint does not tithe, when convicted to, WILL be judged for it by The LORD (YAHUSHUA).
---Gordon on 7/17/07


Tithing is just a carnal commandment that faithless church leaders like.
Spirit led people will see the error---dont hinder God with your measly 10%...Let the Spirit guide you to give 100% or nothing at all if it pleases God. We are Gods elect, lets act like it.
We can tithe through law and fear or GIVE through love.
---duane on 7/17/07


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the new testament church began after the Resurrection. Jesus spoke to believers of the Old covenant. Nowhere in the New Covenant are members insructed to give 10% of their finances. Annias and Sapphira died because they Lied about it. There are no curses in not tithing. We are not living under old testament curses unless you are trying to live under Law. Now, render unto God what is His? Everything is His. And a church building, evangelist, etc. is not God. So why would you render to them?
---faith on 7/17/07


a servant, please provide the scripture that changed the tithe from the agricultural goods commanded in Leviticus 27 to money.
---Ryan_Z on 7/16/07


a servant please also explain why Israel did not tithe during their 40 years in the desert.
---Ryan_Z on 7/16/07


"Its big money lost to greedy business men called pastors and preachers. Its called the fleecing of the elect."

Then give your tithes and offerings to small churches, to pastors who have a history of truly serving God. That's usually the case in small rural, or inner city churches. They are not there for the money.

You can even mail checks to them. God has no law against mailing tithes & offerings, just against stealing His tithes & offerings.
---a_servant on 7/16/07


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"We need to be led of the Spirit in our giving."

He did. We need to obey:

1 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration (breathed) of God..

Hag 2:8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, said the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:8 ..rob God? ..In tithes and offerings.
Matt 22:21 ..Render..to God the things that are God's.
Matt 23:23 ..you pay tithe..these ought you to have done..
Heb 7:8 ..one receives [present tense] tithes of whom it is testified that he lives.
---a_servant on 7/16/07


Tithing is an OT act carried over into the Church Era which we are still in. Tithing from God's point of view is a way of our showing obedience, He does not need the tithe, we do. God does reward obedience.
I am glad I worship a loving God not the one that does awful things to people when we fail.
---Jay on 7/16/07


Holly4, great explanation on obedience and sacrifice. Thanks.
---jhonny on 7/16/07


servant. (Re: Heb7:18)
Your conclusion is correct as you put it. "Priests & Levites were paid offerings to do this work - Num 18. See 1 Cor 9:11. This is what God cancelled."

Can we then conclude correctly (by elimination) that pastors(church workers) are functioning under the auspices of the Melchizedek priesthood by collecting the tithe.
---jhonny on 7/16/07


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Jhonny,
Re Heb 7:18

Priests were buffers between man & God. God wanted a more holy man than a normal man to face Him, on behalf of normal men. Priests & Levites were paid offerings to do this work - Num 18. See 1 Cor 9:11.

This is what God cancelled. Now, Jesus is the buffer facing the Father. Tithe is now His - v. 8. But, Jesus gives His pay to Pastors (church workers) to take care of His Bride (church).

At its heart, a tithe is a thanksgiving offering - See Gen 14.
---a_servant on 7/16/07


Its not penny pinching of christians. Its big money lost to greedy business men called pastors and preachers. Its called the fleecing of the elect.
---calhoon on 7/16/07


Tithing IS N.T. Jesus taught render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's (government) and unto God what is God's (tithe). If you do NOT tithe, you are robbing from God, and you WILL be cursed financially.
---Leslie on 7/16/07


You know, I don't understand what all this PENNY PINCHING is about among some Christians concerning tithing. The LORD GOD Almighty gave you LIFE, He gave you a SOUL with a flesh-and-blood BODY that can live a LIFE on this planet Earth. Then! He has then BLESSED you, by His GRACE and MERCY, with ETERNAL LIFE through His Son JESUS (YAHUSHUA) and you want to THANK HIM by finding EXCUSES not to "give" Him back 10% of all the money He's enabled you to earn.
---Gordon on 7/16/07


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If Christians feel they need to tithe by law or how much a preacher says they should tithe, the Holy Spirit cannot use or lead them.
We need to be led of the Spirit in our giving.
---duane on 7/16/07


Tithing is a NT principle.The term "tithe" is not used but money is discussed frequently, See MT 6:24,1CO 16:2,1TI 6:10, 2TI 3:2,1PE 5:2. OT Malachi 3:8-10 is upheld today You are under a curse for robbing me.Of all he has given us,he asks us to give back a tenth, So that the needs of His church, His people, you, can be met.The IRS doesn't trust you, that's why they take out our taxes before we even recieve the money. But God leaves it to us to reciprocate His love.
---Stacie on 7/15/07


Bill- It sounds like the preacher issuing threats against non-tithers would like very much to have a raise in salary at the emotional and financial expense of his flock. But maybe he has a lot of personal debt he has to pay off . Most of us do....
---JohnS on 7/15/07


Ryan z Cannot find "90% to the town". Can you confirm..."And you ttihe 10% of your check then give the other 90% to the town that you received your paychek in?"
---jhonny on 7/15/07


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Servant thanks for that testimony, re: "God was very kind to return about 2x the total of my tithe."
---jhonny on 7/15/07


Queen: 1) You quoted a scripture out of 1 Sam 15:22 as: The bible says to "obey is better than the sacrifice of praise"....when it really says: "Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice" NOT the sacrifice of PRAISE. God was saying that He would rather His people obey Him than have to offer up a sacrifice for the forgiveness of their sins. (King Saul had directly disobeyed the word of the Lord spoken to him through the prophet Samuel).
---Holly4jc on 7/15/07


Queen: 2) What God was saying through this story of King Saul's disobedience was, if God's people would obey Him...they would not have to repent. That is what this scripture was about, not offering sacrifices of praise, but sacrifices of blood (animals) in accordance with the Old Testament Law of the need to shed blood for the forgiveness of sin. It's hard to divide the word rightly when it is misquoted and not known properly.
---Holly4jc on 7/15/07


Gen 14
Abram was victorious because of God's blessing.

God's high priest (Melchizedek = Jesus) brought bread & wine to symbolize & state His eternal blessing & favor upon Abram.

In thanksgiving & to not feel indebted, Abram gave Him tithes of all. Giving is from the Spirit, not from Satan.

Tithes are on 'increase', regardless the source of increase - Dt 14, 26.
---a_servantry on 7/15/07


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Yes, queen, but what are you referring to with regard to unbelief? Should i repent that I am not a thief, nor a wayward brethren. Since you are skilled at snapjudgment you may use that to look at yourself. You make no reference to scripture and no reference to a quote. Smears are easy business aren't they.
---jhonny on 7/15/07


Servant using Gen 14 as the premise for tithing.
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

What priest brings food and provision and wine for banqueting when you bring your tithe as did Melchizedek?

Do you think that should be done today?
---jhonny on 7/15/07


Sevant, Thanks for all the scriptures on tithing. The furthest position arrived at Hebrews 7: to support tithing in the manner done today.

What then do you think this verse in Heb 7 means?
Hbr 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
---jhonny on 7/15/07


#1 a servant are you saying that Abram's tithe is the institution of the tithe and the practice that is followed today? If that is so it makes no sense. For that to be true your paycheck is then looked at as spoils of war? And you received this paycheck when you went to rescue your nephew? And you ttihe 10% of your check then give the other 90% to the town that you received your paychek in? I am not following your line of thinking by attempting to use Gen 14 as an answer to any of your questions.
---Ryan_Z on 7/14/07


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#2 a servant, I notice that now you have no desire to answer my questions. Money that was given for service was known as the 'shekel of the sanctuary' the tithe was ONLY on agricultural goods. If you wish to know why I would love to discuss it with you.
---Ryan_Z on 7/14/07


Hey Johnny, If you have a problem with believing the word that is inspired by the so called God that you supposedly serve, than I highly suggest that you repent of your sins,including the sin of unbelief and then pray and seek the lord's face. God never has, does not and never will change to suit man's ideas of thoughts of how things should be, you obey him or you don't. THIS IS YOUR CHOICE TO OBEY OR NOT. The bible says to obey is better than the sacrifice of praise.
---queen on 7/14/07


I tithe on the net. That is my increase. I give an offering directly to the pastor as I tithe.

I give to missionary outreaches, children's camp & the needy in my church (this is done with them not knowing who the giver is). To me, God will use the $ better than politicians.

This is not required by God:
I wanted to prove God, so for a year I double tithed. Although He is not obligated, God was very kind to return about 2x the total of my tithe.
---a_servant on 7/14/07


"1) What did God proclaim a tithe on?
2) Who did the tithe belong to?
3) Why did God institute the tithe?"

Permit me to suggest a better question.

1) When was the tithe instituted? Gen 14

2) Who did the tithe belong to? Gen 14, Lev 27, Mal 3, Heb 7

3) Why did God institute the tithe? Gen 14

4) Upon what was the tithe calculated? Gen 14, Dt 14, Dt 26, 2 Chron 31
---a_servant on 7/14/07


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a servant, I agree we should define all of this through scripture so that God can reveal to us His truth found in His word. So, if you wish to, I would like to ask three questions that can be answered by scripture:
1) What did God proclaim a tithe on?
2) Who did the tithe belong to?
3) Why did God institute the tithe?
---Ryan_Z on 7/13/07


Heh queen. This quote "God says we are thieves". Doesn't quite sit right with me. I know who the thieves are and they are the children of the devil as Christ said. They are the leaders of corporate religion with the respect and admiration of so many, some with millions of mind conditioned followers. "Wayward brethren" are the ones who follow these men and their money grabbing doctrines.
---jhonny on 7/13/07


We are property of God - Acts 20:28, 1 Cor 6:20, 7:23. The property works for the profit & pleasure of its Owner. We have use of money, but we don't own money, homes, children, or ourselves. God owns ALL.

This is why He can tell us what to do. This is why He says His yoke is easy. The oxen don't yoke themselves, the Owner does.

Paul called himself a "prisoner" of Christ - Eph 3:1, 4:1, Phil 1:1.

It's stupid to steal His money. He determines your eternity.
---a_servant on 7/13/07


Queen-So do you tithe from your gross or net?
---Sheila on 7/13/07


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Heh queen God says who the thieves are.
Mal 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
And people follow as they do today in empty obedience until everyone is in bondage serving men.
Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
And people love to serve their "top" men.
People tithe in a denial of Christ. The other statutes and judgments are at the door.
---jhonny on 7/13/07


Servant,you are absolutely correct. A few months ago, I was taken by God to the gates of hell and shown some things.The lord told me when I got back into my body that titheing is a commandment. Tithing takes care of the lord's churches,according to Malachai 3 and 8, God says that we are thieves. IT IS AS SIMPLE AS GOD SAYS IT TO BE. Pray for our wayward brothers/sisters that thier hearts are changed by the precious Holy Spirit of God and that they heed his warnings. In the matchless name of Jesus Christ!
---queen on 7/13/07


The tithe as applied is serving men. that is not holy. Do you hear the blog question. God the pastor or priest says gave his wife arthritis.
If you insist on tithing, keep it holy. Following the intimidation and threats of men is not holy. Nevertheless people following men perceive their obedience in a personal way. Empty obedience.
---jhonny on 7/12/07


The issue is not the dollar but the intent of the heart. To know to do good and not do it is sin. Do you want to be a laborer with Christ and his ministers and help supply the natural to he who supplies the spiritual? Do you wish only to do what is commanded? The unprofitable servant that does that is cast into outer darkness. Are you willing to go twain, so to speak? Live by every word of God as commanded. Both testaments where they may apply and can please Christ to the best of our ability.
Frank3443
---Frank on 7/12/07


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"You should produce Scripture that says you no longer have to tithe, but rather you are now authorized give as you want.

You won't, because you can't."

I notice that you have not produced Scripture. Perhaps you think your deductions are superior to Scripture.

Jesus operates on faith in Truth
Satan operates in the mind in lies.

Since you are proven a liar, too proud to apologize, you should repent and ask my Master to forgive you & recieve you as His own.
---a_servant on 7/12/07


a servant, show me a Levite who is the the only one that, by law, has the right to inherit the tithe. Since I am not a farmer or a herdsman and I have no excess of the land, seed of the land, herd or flock I have nothing to tithe. You continue to quote two scriptures in a vain attempt to justify a doctrine of greed. You are ignoring the whole of scripture on the subject of tithing. Give of a cheerful heart becasue that is what Christians are commanded to do, not tithe under compulsion.
---Ryan_Z on 7/12/07


a servant, one other thing, if you are going to discuss tithing you have to include Levites. They go together like Jesus and love, where there is one there is also the other. Since the Levites were given the tithe as an inheritance (Becasue they received no inheritance of land) and the tithe was instituted to support them, attempting to separate them is as futile as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum.
---Ryan_Z on 7/12/07


-1-
The subject is tithing, not priests. When Scripture proves your thinking to be in error, you switch subjects or wrongly divide God's Word to muddle the water.

Here, you are lying. I said nothing about "only pastors are priests."

"Priests / pastors have those who serve with them today" is what I said.

You should produce Scripture that says you no longer have to tithe, but rather you are now authorized give as you want.

You won't, because you can't.
---a_servant on 7/11/07


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-2-
Mal 3:8 ..a man rob God? ..ye have robbed me...In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me

Heb 7:8 Here people who die receive (present tense) tithes, but there one receives (present tense) tithes of whom it is testified that he lives (Jesus).

Christians who don't tithe are robbing Jesus.
---a_servant on 7/11/07


-3-
Professors of salvation who steal from God say the law is no longer in effect, misinterpreting Scripture.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.

This means sin can no longer condemn you, since you are under grace.

This never meant 'the Law has been totally, forever cancelled.'

See Scripture:

Matt 5:17 Let there be no thought that I have come to put an end to the law
John 13:34 I give you a new law
---a_servant on 7/11/07


-4-
Matthew Henry's Commentary:

"..not under the law, but under grace, not under the law of sin and death, but [we are] under the law of the Spirit of life, which is in Christ Jesus: we are actuated by other principles than we have been: new lords, new laws."

Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.

His Spirit CAUSES us to obey His Law. He did not cancel His Law.
---a_servant on 7/11/07


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