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Prayer For The Dead

What's to be done with our loved ones once they are dead? Should we visit their graves and pray for them?

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---Josephine on 5/27/07

(Ramon said: They are many errors in them.)

Why do you think the Church declared these texts inspired by the Holy Spirit?

These texts have been accepted by the Church for 2000 years as part of Sacred Scripture. Only in the 1500's were these texts removed from Protestant versions of the Bible.

How did the first 1500 years worth of Christians answer the question that has been raised here? Macc told them it was good and noble to pray for the dead.
---Catherine on 6/7/06

#2.There are Historical, anachronisms, and Geographical errors in the Apocrypha. Not to mention the fictitious statements which not only contradict the Canonical scriptures, but also themselves.Even early Catholic Church leaders who were familiar with the Hebrew texts clearly distinguish Canonical and Apocrypha writings. To the Jews were committed the oracles [logion],and it was this inspired text which was preserved by them.They were not included in the Hebrew texts used by God's Chosen People.
---Ramon on 6/3/06

Catherine.They are many errors in them.They are many faily tales in these books.Some of the teachings in these books are colored and some are immoral.In Judith 9:10,13, it says that God,assisted Judith in the telling of lies. Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom teach that morality is based expedience. In other words it is right to sin in some situations.Wisdom 11:17 teaches that God made the universe out of pre-existing matter instead of "ex nihilo" as Genesis 1:1-2, John 1:1-3 etc states.
---Ramon on 6/3/06

The references to Deuteronomy do not prohibit prayers for the dead, only: Deut 14:1 "You shall not gash yourselves nor shave the hair above your foreheads for the dead." Deut 26:14 is about offering food: "I have not eaten any of the tithe as a mourner; ;; I have not offered any of it to the dead."

**Macc shows us that it is a good and noble thing to pray for the dead! And, Macc was written after Deut, wasn't it?
---Catherine on 5/31/06

"The Aprocrypha books are not the Word of God." -Ramon

How did you determine this? For 1500 years Christians believed it was(Catholics and Eastern Rites still do). So please tell me how it came to be that a person removes a book of the Bible after 1500 years(interesting that the book supports praying for the dead - something that perhaps Luther was not interested in?).

You will trust someone who broke away from the "One Church" after 1500 years?
---Catherine on 5/31/06

Deut14:1, Deut26:14, shows that Israel was not to follow the pagan ritual sacrifice and offerings for the dead that the Jewish people were accustomed to seeing in captivity. Levitival sacrifices were Burnt offering-surender to God and substitutionary atonement for the offerer.Grain offering-thanksgiving,devotion to God. Peace offering-thanksgiving for devine help and blessing. Sin offering-for unintentional sin. Trespass offering- for unintentional sin against God, holy things, and against neighbors...
---Victoria on 5/30/06

Correction, the reference is II Corinthians 5:17, not I Corinthians.
---Eloy on 5/27/06

The Aprocrypha books are not the Word of God.Thats includes Maccabees.They Have to many errors in them that Even contradicts other scriptures.Should I name them? Its has doctrinal error in it about God etc. Its a Nutshell that the Catholics never had any Backups for there Beliefs.They have to find them In UnHoly books.
---Ramon on 5/26/06

It is called Blessed Assurance. We know that we are saved because, 1- we have repented and are saved from sin, and are converted into the righteousness of Christ, and we keep his commandments. (Matthew 7:17-20; I Corinthians 5:17; I John 3:6-24). 2- Jesus himself promises us. (John 10:3-5; 14:2-4). 3- We have the mark of God, and are persecuted by the lost. (Ezekiel 9:4-6; Matthew 5:10-12; John 15:18-21).
---Eloy on 5/26/06

"How do you prove that all the scriptures and gospels are true and not Macabees".

According to some Biblical scholars there are geographical, historical, chronological as well as doctrinal inconsistencies in the Apocrypha in which Maccabees is a part of.
---lee on 5/26/06

Christina, "rapture", "trinity" and even "Bible" are not found in the Bible.

Neither are hymnals, revivals, and other things dear to American Evangelical Christiands.
---Jack on 5/26/06

But 1 and 2 (and for that matter, 3 and 4) Maccabees ARE part of the Bible.
---Jack on 5/26/06

How do you prove that all the scriptures and gospels are true and not Macabees?

How do you prove when we have more than 1 bible being preached on earth is correct and not the others?
---jas on 5/26/06

2. Verses 16-20 Jesus tells the people that a good tree produces good fruit. In the whole context of the passages, good fruit here, is speaking about the doctrines the false prophets were Promoting. And in Verse 21-23, He completes the subject with, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of MY Father in Heaven..." This Prophets were doing their own will, teaching false doctrines.
---Lupe2618 on 5/26/06

Catherine, in answer to the question as to who is been addressed in Matthew 7:21-23, verse 15, clearly states, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep clothing. but inwardly they are ravenous wolves." Jesus is telling the people to watch out for these false Prophets. They deceive not by disquising themselves as SHEEP, but by impersonating true SHEPHERDS, they promote the Wide gate and the wide way"
---Lupe2618 on 5/26/06

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"Catherine, "purgatory" is not found in the word of God." ---christina

I don't believe that you will find the word Trinity in the Bible either. How about the word "Incarnation"? Just because the word isn't found doesn't mean there isn't scriptural support for the doctrine.
---Catherine on 5/25/06

"purgatory is not found in the word of God. It is a Catholic belief." ---christina
There is scriptural support of the doctrine of purgatory. Reparation is required for sin, right? (2 Sam 12:13-14).
Matt 12:32 shows us that some sin "will not be forgiven" "in the age to come." Read Macc 12:44-45
Read also 1 Pet 3:18-20 and 1 Pet 4:6. Also, why does St. Paul pray for Onesiphorus? 2 Tim 1:16-18

Moderator - Maccabees is where that Catholic doctrine comes from. Non-Catholics don't recognize Maccabees as canon scripture.
---Catherine on 5/25/06

It was appointed unto man ONCE to die and THEN the JUDGEMENT. No praying for the dead, their destiny has already been determined by how they lived their life.
---Donna9759 on 5/24/06

Who established that the two books of Maccabees are not inspired?

The RCC believes that they were. Some new comers decided to state otherwise.
---A_Catholic on 5/24/06

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Catherine, purgatory is not found in the word of God. It is a Catholic belief.
---christina on 5/24/06

Moderator said: "Whom to you think is being addressed in these scriptures? Christians or non-Christians?" Whom do you think is being addressed? These people clearly believed they were following the Lord. They prophesied in Jesus' Name, drove out demons in Jesus' Name, and did mighty deeds in Jesus' Name. Therefore, how can anyone be absolutely sure they will go to heaven when they die?

Moderator - You didn't answer the question. Whom to you think is being addressed in these scriptures? Christians or non-Christians. I am interested as I don't think most people have a clue regardless of denomination.
---Catherine on 5/24/06

Moderator said: "When I die, I will go to Heaven to be with Jesus." How do you know for sure? Matt. 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew
you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'

Moderator - Whom to you think is being addressed in these scriptures? Christians or non-Christians?
---Catherine on 5/24/06

If I find out that you have gone home to God, moderator, I will be happy to pray for your soul too.

Moderator - The thought is nice, however it's too late. The scripture tells us it's appointed for a man to die ONCE and that is it. When I die, I will go to Heaven to be with Jesus.
---Catherine on 5/23/06

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I'm curious how you can say this, Helen, "The only time it would ever be alright in God's eyes to pray for the dead would be if you were praying to raise them from the dead!!" when someone has posted scriptures that show that people did pray for the dead (because, of course, according to scripture, I believe they are living, in Purgatory or Heaven). I pray for my deceased loved ones, because if they are in Purgatory, I believe it will help them.

Moderator - It is appointed for man to die and then the judgement. Some your prayers for someone living.
---Catherine on 5/21/06

The only time it would ever be alright in God's eyes to pray for the dead would be if you were praying to raise them from the dead!!
---Helen_5378 on 5/16/06

Moderator, prayers for the departed, as I said, were part of the services in the Synagoge. Jesus attended and even led these services--and NEVER said anything AGAINST the practice of prayers for the dead. (Contrast this with what He said about some of the teachings of the Synagogues.)
Whatever is not forbidden is therefore allowed.

Moderator - Are you saying Jesus prayed TO the dead asking for GOD's favor? That is simply not true.
---Jack on 5/16/06

EMG, the slightest research into Jewish antiquities and practices will reveal prayers for the departed, even to this day.

Moderator - That doesn't mean it's Biblical. Jews today are apostate.
---Jack on 5/14/06

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So are you saying that anyone can selectively choose what Scriptures they want to believe and remove books as they choose? My point is that Scripture (which should not be added to or subtracted from) was been subtracted from after 1500 years. The established Church (from which the gates of hell would not prevail against) did not remove those books.
---Philomena on 5/13/06

Philomena, I'm not really surprised that it was removed. The 'parable' (told by Jesus) of the Rich Man and Lazarus shows quite clearly that once a person has reached their final destination nothing will change that. Any praying for a person should be done whilst they are still alive. Once they are dead they are dead. I don't think that there will be any unbelievers in hell, they will bow the knee at the judgement, but it will then be too late.
---emg on 5/13/06

2Maccabees 12:44-45:
"For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin." [Always part of Sacred Scripture - Removed by M. Luther from Protestant versions]
---Philomena on 5/12/06

Prayers for the dead was a standard practice in Jesus's day, and He said NOTHING against it, JACK where do we read about this please.
---emg on 5/11/06

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Josephine.#2.In relation to the attributes of God, in order for a dead person to receive prayers the dead individual has to hear the prayer, possess the power to answer it, and know how to answer it in a way that is best for the individual praying.But only God holds those attributes. Only God hears and answers prayer because of His perfect essence.

27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment(Hebrews 9:27 KJV). We cant change their fate.
---Ramon on 5/10/06

We should visit their graves. We do miss them.They are our loved ones.But Praying to dead people has no biblical basis at all. If a person dies in Christ, he goes to heaven to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-9, especially verse 8); if a person dies in their sin, he goes to hell.We cant change their fate. If I pray to someone and they are in eternal agony, should I expect them to be able to hear and answer my prayer? Praying for the dead is a false doctrine.
---Ramon on 5/10/06

Please give Book, Chapter, and Verse where praying for the dead is useless, or it says that we are judged IMMEDIATELY after we die.

"Many waters cannot quench love, neither can floods drown it, for love is strong as death..." sang Solomon. And the Resurrection of Christ proves that love is STRONGER than death.

Furthermore, prayers for the dead was a standard practice in Jesus's day, and He said NOTHING against it, contrasted with what He said about some other Jewish practices.
---Jack on 5/10/06

Praying for the dead is useless. Once our earthly bodies die our spiritual bodies stand before God for judgement. If you have not accepted Jesus as your savior at the time of your death - you will NOT have a home in heaven but in hell and no amount of praying will change that.
---Terry on 5/10/06

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Masses offered for deceased loved ones is an excellent and noble gift to them:
2 Maccabees 12:43 says: "He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view." [This is the idea behind the donation for a mass intention. It's not to fill Church coffers!]
---Philomena on 4/27/06

I do believe that our loved ones pray for us and we can pray for them:
(1 Cor. 12:12) We are all one body.
(Rom 8:35-39) Death cannot separate us from Christ or one another.
Heb 12:1: "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith."
---Philomena on 4/27/06

2Maccabees 12:44-45:
"For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin." [Always part of Sacred Scripture; Removed by M. Luther from Protestant versions 1500's]
---Philomena on 4/27/06

Alan, I don't think those in heaven would be privy to our heartaches and problems. Heaven is a joyous place.
However, just maybe God allows a peek at such happy events, like your daughter's wedding.
---NVBarbara on 4/7/06

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It makes sense ... to whom?
---alan8869_of_UK on 4/5/06

Alan_UK, sorry to hear about your wife, but for anyone to have true joy and peace in heaven, it makes sense they can't be bothered by any of our problems (nor even our happiness) down here. I've seen one or two verses taken out of context trying to prove something on this, but truth is: going to heaven disloves such feelings we had for each other here. Some cults make money off of emotions: They say Scripture lies to us about not being married in heaven; but adds blasphemies like you can be a god too!
---Daniel on 4/5/06

I still visit my mom's grave, I know she isn't there, but it is the fact of the matter. I don't pray for her, for she is dead. Praying for the dead is nonsense. The dead know nothing. But that don't change the fact that we miss our loved ones.
---Rebecca_D on 4/4/06

nvB "They don't know you're there" Do ou really think that? Do they not keep and eye out on what there loved ones are doing and how they are getting on? Did my dear Brenda not rejoice when our daughter was married? I like to think that she was there with us at that time.
---alan8869_of_UK on 4/4/06

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My father is buried two hours from where I live. When I go to that town, to visit my mom, I visit Dad's grave, especially in May. Dad was a Navy WWII veteran, and I like to clean up his grave for the Memorial Day remembrances that take place with the placing of a flag on the graves of the veterans. I also talk to Dad and tell him about my kids and the stuff he missed since he passed. I am not crazy, it is just therapeutic to do this.
---Madison on 4/4/06

Many excellent answers given here. Because I live in a heavily Catholic community this question is often talked about. I feel that any answer I would give could not improve upon the ones already given.
---mima on 4/4/06

As Barbara said, whatever you do now is mostly for YOU to feel better. You could say a quick prayer such as: 'LORD, I hope that [name of person] believed in You before they died.' But don't ever think lots and lots of words will make one bit of difference in their salvation! That depends upon whatever happened between them and God while they were alive. It's an UN-Biblical practice of Roman Catholicism and Mormonism (others?) to keep money coming in by telling you YOU can help those who've already died!
---Daniel on 4/4/06

you can't pray for the dead. We all need to pray for our loved ones while they are alive. I visit my daughters grave with flowers several times a year, probably once a month I do visit, but that is for my sake. I miss her so much I sometimes have a hard time handling all I have faced the past two years. It is therapy for me. Shira
---shira on 4/4/06

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It is a a place where we can be quiet and remember our departed loved one. There is comfort there, too. It is nothing to do with praying for her, more for myself, that I may be worthy as I carry on this life without her.
---alan8869_of_UK on 4/4/06

Personally visiting graves seems a bit morbid to me, but if makes YOU feel better take some flowers and go. They don't know you're there, and praying for them after death is futile. Are you a Christian? Your loved ones had chances to receive the Lord while they were alive, after death its too late. God bless.
---NVBarbara on 4/4/06

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