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HS Baptism By Laying On Hands

Since the Baptism of the HS is given by the laying on of hands (it's described in Acts). Then no one is automatically filled with the Spirit, if they were, then why it is written in the Bible, "BE BAPTIZED" if it comes automatically? Please explain with SCRIPTURES.

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 ---Donna9759 on 5/4/06
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Bruce, if you read the Scriptures as a complete unit instead of in bits, you would know that at Pentecost they received the Holy Ghost that they did not receive at their initial baptism - because Christ had not died yet and had ordained that this would occur later. Normally, we receive the Holy Ghost when we are baptised with water in the name of the Father, Son and HG, which also involves the laying on of hands of an ordained minister.
---lorra8574 on 9/25/07


Bruce P2: Paul did confer the HG without the water baptism ONLY because those individuals had already received the Baptism of John, and only needed to complete it with an ordained minister.

Herb, Jesus gave His Apostles and their successors the ability to confer the HG through Baptism with the Laying on of Hands.
---lorra8574 on 9/25/07


Bruce: For scripture support for what I have written, I provide the following:

John 7:39, Acts 1:5, Acts 2:38, Acts 8:18, Acts 19:1-6 (oops, it appears that these men were baptised a second time before Paul laid his hands on them - John the Baptist's baptism was a precursor only)

Acts 10:47 was an exception because the HS was the sign that gentiles could be baptised.
---lorra8574 on 9/25/07


Bruce, just to be clear, at Pentecost, those who were baptised previously by Christ's disciples received the Holy Ghost, not those who had only been baptised by John the Baptist = as demonstrated in the material I alreadly presented.
---lorra8574 on 9/25/07


Donna, the baptism in the Holy Spirit does not require the laying on of hands. Two examples are, the day of pentecost (Acts 2) and the converts at Cornelius' house who were baptized in the Holy Spirit at the same time they believed as they were listening to the sermon.Acts 10:44-45, "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word... they were astonished... because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."
---Bruce5656 on 9/25/07




Renee you say you recive the Holy Ghost at the age of 11 have you prayed in tongues since then? The Lord fills us with His spirt one time but the bible says there are many refillings i will explain it this way you have a car and you fill it up but that car is not going to run on that tank fore ever it's going to go back to sourse and get filled up again an example the 10 virgins 5 stayed full but the other let there oil leak out If this is not you the only other thing
is the devil is oppressing you.
---Betty on 8/29/06


Renee you say you recive the Holy Ghost at the age of 11 have you prayed in tongues since then? The Lord fills us with His spirt one time but the bible says there are many refillings i will explain it this way you have a car and you fill it up but that car is not going to run on that tank fore ever it's going to go back to sourse and get filled up again an example the 10 virgins 5 stayed full but the other let there oil leak out If this is not you the only other thing
is the devil is oppressing you.
---Betty on 8/29/06


Linda, I am not able to respond to your pen pal ID. I haven't figured out how to register.
---Renee on 5/17/06


Renee, would you write me personally using my pen pal id? It is linda6563. My personal e-mail address is in my profile and I don't mind if you use it. I have a link to a site that will help you enormously.l
---Linda6563 on 5/16/06


The gift can be stirred up by the laying on of hands. I have also had it stirred up when in the presence of others being baptized in the Holy Ghost for the first time.

Ephesians makes it clear that being filled with the Holy Ghost is not just a one time event. "Being" is present progressive tense and denotes a consistent and constant filling.
---Linda6563 on 5/16/06




I, too, have been thinking a lot about laying on of hands. I was filled with the Holy Ghost at age 11 and spoke in tongues, but now I feel empty and depressed and I pray every day for the peace and joy the Bible promises for those who are spirit filled. I keep wondering if I should ask for laying on of hands. And I wonder if, once you are filled with the Holy Ghost, does it ever leave you?
---Renee on 5/16/06


Exactly, it doesnt come in stages. We each have the the same Holy Spirit, but some of Christians allow him to work through them more than others.
---chris on 5/8/06


And you are right...Father doesn't play favorites so that means if He healed me, delivered me, and baptized me in the Holy Ghost, then He wants all of His children to have that.
---Linda6563 on 5/7/06


"The amount that you allow him to work in you is your call, but every bit of him is available as soon as you are born again. I hate to break the news that God loves his children equally and isnt playing favorites."

That's right, Chris...to the degree you allow Him to work in you is the key. How much of Him do you want manifesting? Just enough to let Himself be known inside of you or enough for Him to make Himself known to those around you also?
---Linda6563 on 5/7/06


Sorry, the Holy Spirit does not come in small, medium, large and super sized. Either you are born again and have the Holy Spirit or you arent. The amount that you allow him to work in you is your call, but every bit of him is available as soon as you are born again. I hate to break the news that God loves his children equally and isnt playing favorites.
---chris on 5/7/06


The Spirit dwelling in you and the Spirit overflowing upon you are two very different things. One is like a cup full of water. The other is the water spilling over and touching everything around it.
---Linda6563 on 5/7/06


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The Spirit dwells in ALL true children of God, and He begins to dwell in us at the moment we become God's children (not at some later point). 1 Corinthians 6:19 - Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, which is in us because we are bought with a price. Everyone who has been purchased (redeemed) by the blood of Christ also has the Spirit of God dwelling in him. Romans 8:9 - We should be led by the Spirit of God. If the Spirit of God (Christ) does not dwell in us, we do not belong to God.
---chris on 5/7/06


Herb your theology if way off. The baptism of the HS does not happen the moment you become a believer. It has to be imparted to us ie.the laying on of hands. It is not automatic, we have to desire it want it hunger for it.Seek,knock, ask .
---alan_G on 5/7/06


PART ONE:
Herb,
Your comment reminds me of listening to two kids having a disagreement.

"Is too."
"Is not."
"Is too."
"Is not."
etc.

No matter how many times it has been demonstrated for you from scripture that there is a subsequent to salvation, baptism of the Holy Spirit, you just say; "Is not."
---Bruce5656 on 5/5/06


PART TWO:
I cannot remember once in the (can it be several?) years I have been here, that you have ever taken the passages that you have been presented with and systematicaly presented an alternate explaination.
---Bruce5656 on 5/5/06


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Herb, if we lay our hands on someone in faith believing, there isn't going to be a demon transmitted simply because God Himself honors His Word.
---Linda6563 on 5/5/06


Only the apostles could lay hands on someone and give the Holy Spirit. You become baptized in the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion. The transmission of demons can be done by the laying on of hands. Look at the Pencicola revival.
---Rev_Herb on 5/5/06


Donna being baptized in HS its evidence is you endued with power.Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
---Exzucuh on 5/4/06


PART ONE:
Donna,
Here goes. (my apologies if part eleven is repeated)

The Corinthian church was rife with problems. Tolerating adultery, bickering, cliques, utter disregard for each other, pride in the fact that the ministry gifts of the Spirit were active among them etc.
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


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PART TWO:
Paul told these same people,
1 Corinthians 1:4-7, "in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance (referring to the public gifts of knowledge, prophesy, tongues etc), and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART THREE:
One of the main problems was their pride with respect to the gifts. There was a clear sense that they thought if they were used by the Holy Spirit in public ministry, this proved their spirituality. Paul put them in their place in no uncertain terms about this. The climax of his teaching on the gifts of the Spirit is not ch 14 where he lays out the need of decorum and order.
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART FOUR:
No, the main point is found in ch 13 (the love chapter) everything else Paul had to say to them is incidental to this truth:

1 Corinthians 13:1-2, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity (love), I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART FIVE:
faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

People may claim to be filled with the Spirit but may not be at all. Some may have been and no longer are, some may never have been to start with. We are told Matthew 7:16, "Ye shall know them by their fruits." So, no matter what they claim, you dont get plums from a peach tree.
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


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PART SIX:
the Holy Spirit keeps us from desiring doing certain things, amen?

No, there is no indication of this in scripture. To the contrary Pauls emphasis to the Romans is personal responsibility. We are responsible to do, to be, to say etc. as we ought as a Christian.
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART SEVEN:
There is no promise that we will not be tempted only that we will have the resources available to us to resist that temptation. I Cor 10:13 We are promised that no matter what the temptation, God will give us a way to escape should we choose to accept it. There are lots of promises of strength when we are weak ie. 2 Corinthians 12:9, "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness."
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART EIGHT:
The proof of the baptism in the Holy Spirit is twofold. There is the initial physical evidence which is tongues. In 4 of the 5 examples of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, tongue is mentioned and in one case categorically stated as being proof. Acts 10:45-46, "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART NINE:
poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

There is no prerequisite for the baptism in the Holy Spirit other than salvation. It is not about the evidence (tongues) and it is not about the receiver. It is about ministry and power to witness. There is no indication that it is permanent rather there is every indication that there is one baptism and many fillings.
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


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PART TEN:
Repeatedly we read that they were full of the Holy Ghost and did this or that. Some likened it to filling a gas tank and then refilling it repeatedly.

If the initial physical evidence is tongues, the continuing evidence could be said to be fruit. (No I am not saying that someone who has not received the baptism in the Holy Spirit will not bear fruit.)
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART ELEVEN:
If I am full of the Holy Spirit there will be fruit of the Spirit evident. If I say I am full of the Spirit and live like the devil, well, actions speak louder than words.

But they still speak in tongues you say? Well, all I know is that the very carnal Corinthians had the genuine gifts of the Spirit in operation in their church.
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART ELEVEN:
If I am full of the Holy Spirit there will be fruit of the Spirit evident. If I say I am full of the Spirit and live like the devil, well, actions speak louder than words.

But they still speak in tongues you say? Well, all I know is that the very carnal Corinthians had the genuine gifts of the Spirit in operation in their church.
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


PART TWELVE:
The gifts of the Spirit are dispensed at Gods discretion I Cor 12:11. That is something you will have to take up with Him. :)

However, we can conclude that one does not have to be full of the Spirit to be used in the spiritual gifts (see Corinthian church example). They are a sign of Gods intention to minister to the church, not a sanction of someone's spirituality.

Also, dont ever discount the fact that there is outright fakery in some cases.
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/06


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Paul says it like this (and I love this): Let no man think any more of me than what he has seen of me and heard of me. We may think we are great in our own eyes but the truth is told when others bear witness to your testimony. He also said, "Those things which you have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do; and the God of peace shall be with you."
---Linda6563 on 5/4/06


A lot of times what happens is someone is baptized in the Holy Ghost and there is change right then in the mind but they don't continue in it. There is a failure to develop the fruit. We must add to our faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge..... If there is no continuance or adding to or increase, it will seem like the fruit has been plucked off by a wild bird.
---Linda6563 on 5/4/06


When people come to services and talk about how the presence of God was so strong on such and such a day, I always ask them, "What do you think Father was saying to you in all that?" I believe that is an important question and one I don't overlook when I myself sense His presence. The evidentiary fruit doesn't just all of the sudden show up although the seed is watered beyond belief when we pray in the Spirit.
---Linda6563 on 5/4/06


I have seen people genuinely baptized in the Holy Ghost but who didn't know the reason for it (to testify of the Christ and reveal Him) and continue to go on like they were before it took place because they loved the gift more than the one the gift was to bring them to. In other words, it isn't just about the "feeling" of it all. There is a purpose.
---Linda6563 on 5/4/06


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Donna, the baptism of the Holy Ghost is not the automatic renewing of the mind with its carnal desires and vain imaginations. It is the beginning of it. That takes place as we are exposed to the revelation of Jesus Christ personally. We make the choice to yield or not to yield to that already available power within. The choice to yield to the carnal appetite is is no indicator as to whether someone is not baptized in the Holy Ghost.
---Linda6563 on 5/4/06


Bruce is correct. Also if you check out(Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33) These scriptures show that Jesus is the One Who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.
---Rickey on 5/4/06


Acts was showing the change in the church. The Holy Ghost came to the Jews via baptism. Then to show that things changed, They used laying on with hands. (chapter 8 I believe) Next, it simply took believing spoken words. (chapter 10)
---chris on 5/4/06


okay Bruce, then here's my concern. I have met many Christians who believe they have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but after speaking with them on a regular basis, I realize they don't. For example: a woman wouldn't be falling in love with another man when she's married. Another woman wouldn't be looking at porn when she's married (or single for that matter). In other words, the Holy Spirit keeps us from desiring doing certain things, amen? So what's the PROOF that someone is baptized in the Spirit?
---Donna9759 on 5/4/06


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Donna, you are correct that believers are not automatically baptized in the Holy Ghost. There are several instances were belivers had not recieved this. Some recieved by the laying on of hands as in Acts 8:17. Others just recieved it as in Acts 4:31. Some by prayer.Jesus breathed on His disciples and said "recieve ye the Holy Spirit".
---john on 5/4/06


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