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Explain The 2,300 Day Prophecy

Concerning the Judgment: Revelation 14:7 and Daniel 7:9-10 the time of the judgment "has come". Daniel 8:14 indicates that it started in 1844 at the end of 2300-Day Prophecy.
Using stricly the Bible only, what do you say?

Moderator - The Bible doesn't state 2,300 years, therefore one will not get 1844. Word swapping has to take place to pick up that false doctrine.

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When Dan. 8 is correlated with chapters 2,7,11,and 12, It becomes sound and biblical logic that the "times" and "days" are intended long lengthy eras if time. And all these "times" directly attributed to the works of "the little horn" who is also the "king of fierce countenance" who should appear after,(and is) working in magnification of itself in opposition to "the Prince of Princes," ("The Messiah, The Christ), in that era to follow immediately after "the ten horns" of Dan. chapter 7 (Emprical Rome), to extend toward the event of Messiah's second advent.
---Harv on 3/19/10


Geoff - **Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart-1 Sam 16:7

All the more reason not to stand in judgment of those who interpret the Word of God differently and with good reasoning.


The convoluted Adventist interpretation of the 2300 day thing has been rejected by all non-Adventists theologians as it contradicts much of the rest of the Bible.
---Lee1538 on 1/3/09


Geoff - *How can one honestly say he believes in Jesus if he carves up the Bible and only obeys selectively.

I could not agree more that one who truly believes and loves the Lord will strive to know and be obedience to the entire counsel of God. It is a matter of 'rightfully handling the word of truth' .2 Tim. 2:15

*Will he not come into judgment for such blatant disobedience-Ro 6:16?

The next verse reflect those that are in Christ.'But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,...'
---Lee1538 on 1/2/09


Happy New Year, Lee! Your point is that those who believe in God won't come into judgment, but what does it mean to believe or have faith in God? Ro 10:17 says "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Having faith involves intelligently hearing God's truth-Acts 15:7, believing what we hear and adjusting our actions accordingly-Titus 3:8. How can one honestly say he believes in Jesus if he carves up the Bible and only obeys selectively? Will he not come into judgment for such blatant disobedience-Ro 6:16? Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart-1 Sam 16:7.
---Geoff on 1/1/09


Geoff - *1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Those who reject the Lordship of Jesus Christ have already been judged, however those who believe will not enter into judgment but are in Christ and will not be condemned.(Rm. 8:1).

John3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
---Lee1538 on 1/1/09




Lee, you asked (on 9/3/06) "Where does it say that Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary to judge Christians?"

I already answered this Q (on 8/29/06) before you asked. Since you may not have read the reference I gave, let me spell it out for you.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
---Geoff on 12/7/08


Those who believe we are relieved of Moses' Law should commit adultery, lie, and murder. If not was only one commandment nailed while nine others remain in force? All denominations teaching that Yeshua nailed the Law should not accept tithes. Tithing was established under the Levitical priesthood. If your church teaches OT rules only apply to Jews, tithing falls into that category too. Yeshua entered the synagogue on the Sabbath (Luk 4:16,6:6, 13:10). Paul customerily entered the synagogue Sabbath(Acts 13:14, 27,42,44,15:21,16:13, 17:2). Hence he writes in Heb 4:9: So there remains a Shabbat-keeping for God's people.Gentiles kept the Sabbath after the cross (Acts 18:4) hence we are still required to observe the 7th-day Sabbath.
Modern Daniel
---M._Daniel_Chihaba on 11/25/08


Daniel: "until morning, nightfall 2300, and the holy will be rectified". In Hebrew bible nightfall = exile. If morning nightfall is not a definition of how to count 2300, instead starting point in history, then: Nightfall = exile, morning = incomplete_redemption. In other words, a time when the redemption appeared on the horizon but actually it was still exile. Year 352BC, Persian king told Jews to end their exile, rebuild temple, add 2300 years, = 1948, date of the reestablishment of Israel
---George on 7/11/07


Geoff - Hebrews 9:24 has reference, not to judgment but to the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf. Notice the phrase 4 "For Christ HAS ENTERED...", Not a tidbit about 1844

You need to keep things in context otherwise you simply build upon a false doctrine.
---lee on 9/9/06


Lee, please consider Hebrews 4:14-16. Heres Hebrews 9:24
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.
Please restate your Q on Daniel 8:14.
---Geoff on 9/9/06




It appears that our SDA friends are desperately trying to support a belief that even they have questions about as they simply do not care to address the questions posed.
Where does it say that Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary to judge Christians?
And they have stated nothing about the bad translation of Daniel 8:14 - "evenings & mornings" not 'days', "restored" not "cleansed".
A house of cards really has no foundation.
---lee on 9/3/06


Winston's only post is ignored, and it is CRITICAL.

It is critical because it is based on the PLENARY inspiration of Scripture. That is, God chose this word, and not that word to convey a specific message to a specific people at a specific time.

Anyone paraphrasing "evenings and mornings" into "days" or allegorizing it into "years" violates the doctrine of plenary inspiration of Scripture

That makes 2Tim3:16 false doctrine.
---John_T on 8/30/06


Exactly, Pierre! When something is important it is repeated. I've been accused of building a doctrine (IJ) on a single text (Dan 8:14), but it is all through the scriptures, see Dan 8:26, 9:24-27; 1 Pe 4:17; see Lk 3:21-22; Is 53:5; Mk 15:34-39; He 9:1-15; & Acts 9:1-31. Likewise, the prophetic day=year principle is repeated. Compare Ez 4:6 & Nu 14:34.
---Geoff on 8/29/06


jana ???? still "waiting for your full explanation of the 2300 years prophecy..."
Do yourself & me a favor and go back to my May, June & July postings and you will find that I have already given a full explanation of what I believe about the SDA prophecy of the 2300 evenings & mornings.
I suggest that you list them in order of the questions asked and then hopefully you will not continue to make this thread into some kind of tautology.
---lee on 8/29/06


Why 1 =360 The day--year principle is 'rock solid':
1. It is in the Bible, EZ 4:6 ...I have appointed thee EACH DAY FOR A YEAR
2. The time under consideration covers hundreds of years, the rise and fall of major empires, all which could not be fit into literal times (ex. D7=31/2 yrs-D8=6yrs-3monts)
3. The prophecy of D8 was for the time of the end, so if were dealing with literal years the end would already have arrived!
Study it for yourself! 1=360! P.
---pierr5358 on 8/29/06


Winston's only post is ignored, and it is CRITICAL.

The original language says 2300 DAYS AND EVENINGS. That is not the same thing as days; we paraphrase it is a day; God did not originally write it "day".

It is critical because it is a "poetic" expression within a historical narrative-- something out of place-- or else it means what it meant at creation, when that phrase was first used.

Obviously, Jerry's interpertation is thus a foreign concept to the text.
---John_T on 8/29/06


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Lee my brother in Christ??????? I am waiting for your full explaination of the 2300 years prophecy...you have just damned my explanation so how about sharing your understanding of it if any..you seem to be great at criticizing brother...it definitely ended in 1844 in our workout from the bible...how about yours...please...let God be judge.
---jana on 8/29/06


I think that Jerry would agree with me that those that believed in Millers prediction of the 2nd coming of Christ really believed a monstrous lie.
And who followed in their footsteps? You guessed it those that later become Adventists.
---lee on 8/25/06


Yes Jerry there was no SDA in 1844 but those involved eventually became the forerunners of the SDA organization in the 1860's.

In 1845 you had Ellen White with her "closed door" policy, 2300 day prophecy re-interpretation, etc. The leaven was already in the dough and starting to do its work resulting in the SDA.

So where is the false testimony? Glad to see your response; at least you are thinking about these things.
---lee on 8/7/06


Jerry:
We cite those things we found on the online versions of EGWs writings so you can verify. Your complaint REALLY is not about us; it is about what EGW says. And in that case, we report truth, so it is you who have to deal with it.

I suppose that one could accuse the little boy of hate speech when he said to the Emperor that he was naked because it embarrassed him, but that would not be the truth, would it?
---John_T on 8/7/06


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Geoff: I made several responses, all similar. You appear not to like them, thus you deem them non-responses The 2300 year=day stuff is similar to the canals on Mars. As long as you keep looking through warped lenses, they will be they be there.


BECAUSE THE CONCEPT IS FALSE no cherry picking of Scripture will prove something untrue as being true.

The foundation is warped in many ways, proven already. So any doctrine built on it tilts.
---John_T on 8/7/06


Lee: This is number 11. THERE WERE NO SDAs IN 1844! Will you please acknowledge that, at least in this instance, you have borne false witness.
---jerry6593 on 8/7/06


Jerry - "The SDA belief is clearly on the same shelf with those that believe Christ came invisibly in 1914, that is another of your fantastic lies. We never set dates for Christ return."

That is what exactly happened in 1844. Howbeit, after the main crowd went home, to save face, they re-interpreted the prophecy of Daniel 8 to be something that happened in the heavenlies.

Now Jerry, how do we really know that from what could be observed in 1844?
---lee on 8/6/06


Jerry - I believe that EGW missssed the boat also on her prediction of the Lisbon earthquake of 1755.

EGW stated that the Lisbon earthquake fullfilled Rev. 6:12. She stated that it was "the most terrible earthquake that has ever been recorded". But history records that 100k people died in Egypt 1201, 830k died in China 1556, 200k in Japan 1703, and 300k in India 1737. The fact is that Lisbon is not even on the list of 14 worst earthquakes in history. Sort of a joke is it not?
---lee on 8/6/06


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Lee: We are in the time of the end right now, and all of the prophetic predictors that you mentioned have happened. Please check out : The Lisbon earthquake of 1755, The New England Dark Day of May 19, 1780 and the meteor shower of November 13, 1833. As for the claim that "The SDA belief is clearly on the same shelf with those that believe Christ came invisibly in 1914," that is another of your fantastic lies. We NEVER set a date for the coming of Jesus.
---jerry6593 on 8/6/06


The arguments over Danile 8 prophecy will probably never be answered to the satisfaction to everyone. However there are a few things that we should look at if we wish to remain honest to it's understanding.
The angel said 2300 evenings and mornings. This points back to Genesis - the evening and the morning was a day.
Daniel 12:7 states: ".. when.... all these things shall have come to an end." Therefor when Titus sacked Jerusalem in AD 70 the prophecies of Daniel had come to an end.
---Winston on 8/5/06


Jerry - while Daniel 8 does have prophecies that may pertain to the end times, there is simply no good rationale in projecting 2300 years forward to 1844. We note NOTHING of any significance happened in 1844 NO EARTHQUATES, SIGNS IN THE SKY, OR OTHER PREDICTORS - to even indicate that that year was the fulfillment of any prophecy. The SDA belief is clearly on the same shelf with those that believe Christ came invisibly in 1914. Hope that you can see the problems involved.
---lee on 8/5/06


jerry - regarding Daniel 8:17b "Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision." Scofield notes

Two "ends" are in view 1)historically, the end of the 3rd or Grecian empire of Alexander out of which "the little horn" of verse 9 (Antiochus) arose;

2) prophetically, the end of the times of the Gentiles (Lk. 12;24, Rev. 16:14) when the "little horn" of 7:8, 24-26, the Beast, will arise - Daniel's final time of the end.
---lee on 8/5/06


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1. Jerry One of the problems I see with the SDA interpretation of Daniel 8:14 is that the word "days" is not in the original and hence the "day for a year" cannot be justly applied to this text; here again there is no such prophecy as 2300 years to 1844, for the word day does not appear at all. Then the phrase in the KJV "the sanctuary be cleansed" is more accurately translated from the Hebrew "the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state".
---lee on 8/5/06


Daniel 8:14 ESV And he said to me, {Hebrew; Septuagint, Theodotion, Vulgate to him} For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.
---lee on 8/5/06


Jerry: "Well Mima, I'm surprised that you consider Daniel a false prophet"

Here is another example of why our SDA friends have things so messed up. Jerry assumes, as he has in the past, something NOT in the text to be true.

Perhaps that is a SDA distintive, obviously is is Jerry's pattern.

Trying to prove he 2300 day/year thing as the SDAs tell it is impossible, because NO ONE can prove an untruth to be true.

It is balogna no matter how thinly you slice it.
---John_T on 8/5/06


Lee: Perhaps you and JT missed the last 10 times I pointed out that the Bible says that the 2300-day prophecy refers to the time of the end (Dan 8:17), and thus cannot possibly refer to Antiochus. You also continue to refer to 1844 as a SDA invention, when in truth it came from a Baptist. Since you cannot refute the truth of the biblical SDA position, you and JT manufacture these and other lies about us and our prophet couched in the most derogatory of terms. This you call truth. I call it hate-speech.
---jerry6593 on 8/5/06


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Well Mima, I'm surprised that you consider Daniel a false prophet.
---jerry6593 on 8/5/06


The 2300 day biblical prophecy can only be explained by using the principals found in Ezekiel 4:6 and Numbers 14:34 applying a year/day principal however it can only be understood by applying the Holy Spirit to ones life therefore no matter how simpistic the explanation for one to agree or understand wholly lies in the hands of ones willingness to surrender their heart to Christ. "Holla"
---S on 8/4/06


Some Adventists accuse others of having "hate speech" but in reality it reflects that fact that their feet are bloody from kicking against the pricks (Acts 9:5). They have too much trouble in defending their viewpoint that the church must be under some old covenant laws but not under others. And they cannot find anything in the NT that supports Sabbath observance, dietary laws, investigative judgment, or any of their other pet beliefs.
---lee on 8/4/06


Jerry:"...resorting to hate-speech"

I spoke the truth. What she said has been accurately attributed in the other blogs, and correctly quoted.

Thats NEVER HATE SPEECH.

I respectfuly suggest that if you have problems with the things she wrote that have been disproven, or are medical quackery, or proven plagerism, then it is YOU who need to remove yourself from the SDAs.

As to the dates, etc, they are NOT relevant due to bad foundation. BTW Your dates differ from Jana's
---John_T on 8/3/06


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Mima - "Believeing in the 2300 day false prophecy is an example of how easily people can be misled by a false teacher."

History is full of people that have made false predictions and as a result made others look foolish. It is the same with the 1844 bunch. In order to save face, they invented the theory that something did happen, not on earth but in the heavenlies. But that puts them on the same shelf with the Jehovah's Witnesses in predicting Jesus returned in 1914 invisibly.
---lee on 8/3/06


As to Daniel 8:14 the translation should more accurately be -

"For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state."

Nothing about days being translated into years or the sanctuary being cleansed.

Antiochus Epiphanes and the descration of the temple fits the prophecy totally. There is no need to look for other explantions in visions of some psychic.
---lee on 8/3/06


Jerry - "So what do you want? A quick and sloppy job?" LOL, I am starting to feel sorry for those rope burns you have acquired.

According to Scriputure, God is both omnipresent but omnipotent - meaning that he is everywhere present and all powerful; really does not need a calculator or 162 years to do any kind of judgement. Stop and think about it for awhile. Isn't the whole idea sort of ridiculous?
---lee on 8/3/06


JT: You just can't do it, can you? You can't engage in a serious discussion of the Bible without resorting to hate-speech. How Christian is that? The 69-week prophecy refers to the beginning of Jesus' earthly ministry in 30 AD, not His birth in 4 AD. The numbers work with the day-for-a-year principle. Spray-painting anti-SDA slogans on every wall you see does not.
---jerry6593 on 8/3/06


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With all the interested in Dan 8:14, I'm curious; has anyone actually ventured into an SDA Church this quarter? Please share your findings. The topic is "The Gospel, 1844, and the Judgment." This week the study is on Daniel 9. You can even check it out online.
---Geoff on 8/2/06


John_T, I missed your response (if there was one) to Jana's correcting your mistake. 27AD is when Jesus was baptised, not his birth. His death was right on time, as was the stoning of Steven, the end of the 70 weeks. This portion of the total 2300 day prophecy is so precise that it gives me confidence the rest is also as precise, as is the end in 1844. Can you follow that? Should I explain further?
---Geoff on 8/2/06


Believeing in the 2300 day false prophecy is an example of how easily people can be misled by a false teacher.
---mima on 8/2/06


2300 DAYS IS A DISTRACTION TO THE CORE ISSUE

A woman WITHOUT THEOLOGICAL TRAINING plagerizes others works, then tells others to REJECT what she plagerized, REIMPOSES selected OT laws, writes MEDICAL QUACKERY and says that ALL OTHER CHURCHES ARE APOSTATE; they dont follow her crazy rules, NEVER previously a part of the church.

The greats of the Reformation didnt do that. Is she better than all of them?

And we are to believe that nonsense, placing our trust in her?????
---John_T on 8/2/06


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Part of the previous reply was to Geoff, and another part to Jerry.

Jerry, in the post you cited, perhaps you can re read it again, and get the meaning of what I wrote better.

It refered back to Antiochus, and Lee's excellent post. It was an answer to P's question to me.

In your haste to respond, you assumed things not in it, thus you made an erronious accusation, corrected in the post prior to this
---John_T on 8/2/06


Jerry: Stating I believe "Abomination of Desolation" refers to Antiochus "Epimenes" desecration of the Temple does not mean that I agree with the liberal interpertation that Daniel is history written after the fact.

As I stated with Jana, your #s are warped. Jesus was born c. 4 BC, and that was the date of his appearance, in the manger, before the shepherds.

That throws 1844 back 31 years to 1811. Therefore it makes Millerites, like SDA waaay off. (AND THEY ARE THAT!)
---John_T on 8/2/06


JT: So, you now agree with Lee that the 2300-day prophecy refers to Antiochus Epiphanes. Is that the best that you can do? Dan 8:17 states "for at the time of the end shall be the vision." You have just placed the time of the end before the Christian era. Perhaps you should work on your Bible study more and your anti-SDA rhetoric less.
---jerry6593 on 8/2/06


Lee: "He has been judging people for over 162 years and still hasn't got the job done yet!" So what do you want? A quick and sloppy job? If everything was accomplished at the cross, as some people allege, then what are we still doing here? Is God, like some cosmic cat, just toying with us mice in this vile world of sin? Didn't you notice that the 2300-day prophecy was for the "time of the end" (Dan 8:17). Care to comment on that?
---jerry6593 on 8/2/06


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Lee, the more you say convinces me you really haven't a clue about Dan 8:14. Some fervent young people slavishly pour over scripture (unlike today) to discover the truth that was there all the time

I must applaud Jada for explaining Dan 8:14 (longest time prophecy) in 9 posts on 7/29. Hope you were able to follow. What fascinates me is that we know 1844 is accurate because the early portion's fulfillment (70 weeks) is so precise. Let me know if I may recap for clarity.
---Geoff on 8/1/06


And we are to believe that nonsense??????????

I think it was P.T. Barmum of Barmun & Bailey circus who once remarked when asked why people waste their money at some circus events, that a fool is born every minute of the day.

I keep wondering why someone doesn't give God a desk computer as according to the SDA Investigative judgment, He has been judging people for over 162 years and still hasn't got the job done yet!
---lee on 8/1/06


JT, seems you agree with anything anti-SDA whether it makes sense or not. On 7/8 Pierre exposed Lee's speculation that "the book of Daniel was from the days of Antiochus Epiphanes, arguing by extension that it was written after the facts." Do you really believe God operates like that? Why not learn what the 2300 day prophecy is all about before criticizing it?
---Geoff on 8/1/06


Jana, kudos. They say parts of the Bible are for the Jews, not us. The reason particular doctrines are unique to the Seventh-day Adventist Church is not for the sake of being different, but because SDAs embrace the whole Bible as the revelation of Jesus Christ. No wonder they just don't get it. They've rejected light.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Mt 13:12, 25:29; Lk 19:26.
---Geoff on 8/1/06


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Actually, this 2300 stuff is a mere distraction to the central issue of SDAs:

A woman WITHOUT THEOLOGICAL TRAINING plagerizes others works, calls it her own, tells others to REJECT 2000 years of Christian scholarship, REIMPOSES selected OT laws, writes MEDICAL QUACKERY and says that ALL OTHER CHURCHES ARE APOSTATE because they dont follow rules she created, NEVER a part of the church until she wrote them.

And we are to believe that nonsense??????????
---John_T on 7/31/06


Jana, though much of what you wrote is correct, we do not live under the law but through the grace of God. We do follow God's moral laws but not the ritual or ceremonial laws that SDA's follow, plus they have a different Jesus. Our Jesus is not an angel but God. Sorry that I have to answer to you, but your essentials are not the same. Following a different gospel is false teachings. Now if you believed in the same Jesus, then we could debate.
---Lupe2618 on 7/31/06


P:

Lee did a better job on the 2300 days than I could have, so go back, read his post related to Antiochus Epiphanes

That is why I have not responded other than to say that THERE IS NO BASIS FOR YEAR=DAY in prophecy principle in Scripture.

Yes, it is in Scripture, but the context rules out the SDA misinterpertation
---John_T on 7/31/06


lupe n Pierre, As long as we are with Christ, we are not under condemnation of the law...for without sin, we dont need law..yet with sin, we need law to keep us right ..for the law points out our sin ... remember, Christ is our righteousness and He also is the Word.. the 10 commands/laws of God still stands, its His character that we need to conform to. Remember, God wrote these commands/laws with His own finger Deut5:22,10:4..do we argue with God over His commands??? have mercy Lord
---jana on 7/31/06


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john, the word of God called you apostate, not SDA's...they only go by what the word says..therefore take your grievances to God ..lets share what we know
---jana on 7/31/06


john, your spot on BUT..AD27 is when Jesus baptised Messiah, "the annointed" by the HolySpirit Luke3:21,22, Acts 10:38 andsee what His first message wasat baptism Mark 1:14,15 "The time is fulfilled"..AD31, 31/2 years after begining of ministry, He was to end all sacrificial system..He became sacrificial Lamb of God..
---jana on 7/31/06


john, 700 words given some my own some from our study...to help correct my statements of study..and no EGW didnt write our study..plaguerising or not, i dont see wrong..if I am wrong, then all bible writers must be too over the years .. take a look at the many versions and most full of errors..is that not the same thing? then share with us your understanding of 2,300years and lets understand each others knowlege of truth...let God be judge
---jana on 7/31/06


thanks lee..Dan 8:14 sure states 2,300 years. check the texts given and I apologise 4 shortcuts..history paralleled with bible events were necessary as it all happened..eg little horn..who would you say itwas? Grecian empire ruled by whom? both historical happenings and matched the era. ..who would you put in their places to explain it instead?..perhaps you could explain how you interpret the 2,300 years/days .. false doctrine? texts given of the Bible false??...we are sharing
---jana on 7/31/06


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john, you asked explaination on 2,300...this is our explaination and if you check each text given it will tell you..please, leave EGW out..she never blasphemed God ever but uplifted Him...plagurised or not, theres no sin committed..Blogging on Sabbath? yes, I was sharing what I know of the truth and that is what we are suppose to do..not shopping in some mall etc or gossiping about others...its the Lords day..this is a site for sharing the truth isnt
---jana on 7/31/06


Lee: I couldn't agree more. I think the good Lord allowed all non-SDAs to go first on the "SDAs only please" blog so that we could clearly discern their motives.

I see your pal JT still has not managed to come up with any interpretation at all for the 2300-day prophecy.
---jerry6593 on 7/31/06


Jerry - "As I began responding, my power went out and I havent been able to find the blog since."

God apparently had intervened; He works in mysterious ways sometimes...LOL
---lee on 7/30/06


Jana:

How many of the 700 or so words you wrote are your owm?

If you do not cite the sources, even if you paraphrase, then you plagerize.

EGW did that, and I sincerely hope you do not follow her BAD example
---John_T on 7/30/06


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Pierr, I don't expect for you to agree on anything I say about the law or for that matter what Others have said. That is understandable. Coming from a different faith you have different essentails to the Christian faith. A totally different Jesus as I have learned. I just wanted to respond to you, that was it, but never with the intention I was going to change your way of thinking. I don't have that power. Thank you for your answer. Peace
---lupe on 7/30/06


Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
---Exzucuh on 7/30/06


Jerry: "most credible biblical scholars affirm its accuracy."

They are only "credible" because you agree with them, or they are SDAs themslves. By definnition, that surely IS NOT MOST

How inconsistent!!

You refuse to cite Calvin, Luther, Lensky, Wesley, Hendrikson, Vos, Young and others with excellent acadaemic credentials because you guys label them as "romanish" [a HIGHLY INACCURATE PREJORATIVE] but will willingly cite ONLY The SDA guys
---John_T on 7/30/06


Lupe: You write:"a Christian is not UNDER THE LAW"
If you mean not under the CONDEMNATION of the law, I agree BUT if you mean FREE TO IGNORE or worse FREE TO TRANSGRESS it, I have disagree with you.
You write:" we are driven to follow Christ because of the LOVE we have for Christ"
Isen't that the same LOVE that Jesus spoke about when He said 'if you love me, keep my commandments'? I think it is! P.
---Pierr5358 on 7/29/06


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jana - a very convoluted interpretation not only of Scripture but of historical events as well.

Nothing to support the view in the New Testament.
---lee on 7/29/06


Alan 1: You posted a blog not long ago asking some SDAs to explain the IJ and the 2300 day prophecy to the exclusion of others. I noted that the two prime SDA antagonists had weighed in with their usual rants, but few others. As I began responding, my power went out and I havent been able to find the blog since. So Ill answer you here. First, a few biblical facts are needed:
---jerry6593 on 7/29/06


Alan 2: The judgment is described in scripture as a singular, future event (Dan 7:10, 22, 26; Mat 12:36; Act 24:25; 2Cor 5:10; 1Joh 4:17; Rev 14:7; 20,4, 11-12), and Jesus is the Judge (John 5:22). It is associated with the 2nd coming of Jesus (Mat 12:41, 42; Jud 14,15; Rev 22:12). Note in Rev 22:12 that Jesus brings His reward with Him (executive phase) either death or eternal life (Rom 6:23). This necessitates that a judgment (investigative phase) has already been completed.
---jerry6593 on 7/29/06


Alan 3: This also logically implies that none but the few resurrected with Jesus have received their reward as yet. They are asleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the just at His 2nd coming (1 Th 4:13-17). How could they receive a reward without having been previously judged? . the IJ not having occurred until just before the 2nd coming.
---jerry6593 on 7/29/06


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Alan 4: In Daniel Chapters 2, 7 and 8, the future history of the world is given in three distinct visions. The kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome, Papal Rome and the coming of Jesus are delineated in order. Daniel 7 fixes the great judgement scene in heaven squarely between the end of Papal dominance (1798) and the 2nd coming of Jesus. We know that this was the investigative phase since the books were opened (v. 10).
---jerry6593 on 7/29/06


Alan 5: Daniel 8 also lists world kingdoms, but the 2300-day cleansing of the sanctuary is placed after the little horn (papal) power right in the place of the judgement of Ch 7. Further, Dan 8:17 affirms that the 2300-day vision is for the time of the end. (This verse alone is sufficient to rule out any interpretation of the 2300 days as referring to Antiochus in the 2nd century BC.)
---jerry6593 on 7/29/06


Alan 6: The Judgment was typified in the sanctuary service by the day of atonement. On that day, the High Priest (typifying Jesus) entered the Most Holy Place (typifying Gods throne in heaven) to cleanse the sanctuary of the repented sins of the saints and place them on the scapegoat (Satan) where they belong. Using the day = year principle of prophetic interpretation, the 2300-day prophecy beginning in 457 BC (Dan 9:25), brings the Judgement to 1844 right between 1798 and the 2nd coming of Jesus.
---jerry6593 on 7/29/06


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