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Is Christian Faith Bible Based

Where in the NT do the apostles tell future generations that the christian faith will be based solely on a book?

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 ---ruben on 5/11/06
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The christian 'faith' was established by Paul and his writings. However, we see in Rev. 12:17 that the group here will be keeping the commandments (10) and will have the testimony of Jesus, (not Paul's)
---Dr.Rich on 4/8/08


"I charge you by the Lord that this letter be read to all the holy brothers. All scripture given by inspiration of God, and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished to all good works. The great voice said, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: What you see, write in a book, and send onto the seven churches..." I Thessalonians 5:27; II Timothy 3:16,17; Revelation 1:11.
---Eloy on 4/7/08


They didn't. The message of the NT is the gospel of The Anointed One, and His Anointing, Jesus Christ. That is all the disciples and Paul preached. Our salvation is based on His atoning sacrifice, and our acceptance of His finished work. Jesus is where we place the gift of faith that The Father has given us to embrace and exercise. The Word abides in us.
---josef on 5/3/07


Friend it just blew right by you.We have faith in our lord jesus, and our God. the bibles not just a book friend, it is the inspired, revealed word of God written by men through the guidance of the holy spirit for the edification and teaching of the people of GOD.A book is oh like gone with the wind, or the divinci code or how the grinch stole christmas.
---tom2 on 6/7/06


..bruce, I am not looking for your surprise or your lack thereof.
---Eloy on 5/17/06




alan, when Luke ministered with Paul it wasn't when Paul was a nonChristian asnd unconverted, but it was after Paul's conversion after Paul was hit with the shekinah glory of Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus. I am not returning to this thread, you are very obstinate.
---Eloy on 5/17/06


a catholic, What looks wrong to you, is in fact right.
---Eloy on 5/17/06


alan, you bear false witness, instead I said just because 'catholic' did not come into common use until after the Bible was written does not negate the fact that Pontiff Pilate was a Roman idolater which is called a catholic today, just as the word 'The Righteous, The Sheep, and Followers of The Way' meant Christian before the word Christian came into common usage. I also said likewise catholicism was present under a different title in the O.T. where they worshipped the nonexistent 'Queen of heaven'.
---Eloy on 5/17/06


Eloy, it looks like you're praying to the wrong source before you read the Word because your Pilate/Pontiff thingy is just a farce.
---A_Catholic on 5/16/06


For those interested in finding the Pontif (sic) Pilate thread, cut and paste this: /1113932055.htm after the .com in the address bar
---John_T on 5/16/06




eloy,
"Below?" I take that to mean your prior response of 5/16/06.

Why am I not surprised?
---Bruce5656 on 5/16/06


Eloy ... Yes of course Luke was a fellow worker with Paul all along. But if that were so, he would have during Christ's physical life been a rabid opponent of Jesus, and hardly would have written his reverent account of Jesus' birth.
There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that Timothy or any of the 12 were at the birthplace. But you will believe what you will
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/16/06


Eloy ... the meaning of the word may be whatever you say. But you have said that Pilate was the first leader (by whatever title) of the RCC, and you have blamed the RCC for Pilate's crimes.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/16/06


alan, I already explained the meaning of the word Pontius or Pontiff. You should let the Word minister to you, rather than reading the scriptures without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I suggest praying before and during reading of the N.T. gospel, when you do this, your doubts and questions about the Word will be answered.
---Eloy on 5/16/06


..bruce, below. alan, what I wrote is the truth. Paul says that since he, as well as the original 12 eyewitnesses, has accurately followed all things from the very first, he is writing his witness to Theophilus. Please reread Luke 1:3. Being a fellowlaborer with Paul constitutes Lukes participation in propagating the gospel along with Paul. But you will believe whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 5/16/06


Eloy ... You have claimed (I think ... correct me if I misunderstood what you said) that each Gospel writer witnessed each occurrence first hand, and wrote it down simultaneously. So was Matthew there at the birth? & were all the gospel writers there when the angel appeared to Mary?
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/16/06


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Eloy ... You said "For as Christ Jesus was preaching, his words and miracles were simultaneously being recorded by his disciples, and by others" You now claim John 21:24 as authority for that statement, when in fact it says nothing of the sort.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/16/06


Eloy ... # 3 You say you do not embellish the Bible, ... yet you somehow expand it to make it say that Pilate was the first Pope and the father of the Roman Catholic Church. (Not exactly those words, but that is the implication)
You also somehow manipulate it to enable yuo to claim that you have suffered more than Christ suffered.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/16/06


Eloy ... # 2 With regard to Luke, it is clear from the opening verses of his Gospel that he makes no claim to have been an eyewitness of any of Christ's life or doings.
You cannot say that Luke was a disciple of Jesus whilst He was alive because he was a co-worker of Paul. Paul was still Saul during the whole of Jesus' life.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/16/06


eloy,
In that case, would you be so kind as to tell me where I can read the answer?
---Bruce5656 on 5/16/06


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..bruce, I already addressed this question previously.
---Eloy on 5/16/06


jack, My correcting your error is not an attack. You wrongly maintain that the gospel was not written until 25-30 years after Jesus' resurrection, but that is not indicated anywhere in scripture. On the contrary it reads that the first Apostles witnessed and recorded firsthand every detail of Jesus' words and works. Please read John 21:24.
---Eloy on 5/16/06


alan, I don't embellish scripture, I elucidate and explain it only in order to teach the seeker, and to open their understanding to the truth committed to me.
---Eloy on 5/16/06


alan, On the contrary, Luke says in Luke 1:1-3 that he is the one recording Jesus' birth. And Paul calls him the beloved physician, and his fellowlaborer that was with him. Please read Colossians 4:14; II Timothy 4:11; Philemon 24.
---Eloy on 5/16/06


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eloy,
How about it? Will you answer my question?
---Bruce5656 on 5/15/06


No Eloy I am not even related to Cliff. You would know that if you had read some of my challenges to him.
I am not a sceptic.
I believe the Bible is True, but that some parts may be allegorical.
I do not accept some of the embellishments you put on it.
Neither am I the plain "Alan" who sometimes posts.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/15/06


eloy (no, I will be courteous and call yuo Eloy) I am not Cliff. I see nothing in the Bible to show that each of the Gospel writers wrote down everything they report at the time they witnessed it happen. You indicate that Luke wrote the Birth account as an eye-witness? He does not say so. Luke was a disciple? ... maybe but it is not recorded that he was ... he was certainly not one of the 12.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/15/06


Until the revelation of Christ was compiled into the New Testament, the apostles journeyed across the land preaching the message and backing it up with signs and wonders.
---chris on 5/15/06


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The Spirit revealed to the apostles and prophets the mystery of the gospel which had previously been unknown who wrote it down so others could know. Eph. 3:3-5 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
---chris on 5/15/06


Eloy, go ahead and think that if it makes you feel better.

YOU are the one who is being insulent because when asked where certin catch phrases were in the Bible (they are not), you turned it into a personal attack.

Ad hominem arguments simply mean you have no arguments to use against the issue at hand.
---Jack on 5/15/06


eloy,
This is off topic here but I wonder if you would be so kind as to tell us why you will not capitalize anyone's name but your own.
---Bruce5656 on 5/15/06


alan, are you related to cliff #1?
---Eloy on 5/15/06


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alan, it's not fanciful that the writers wrote of what they both saw and heard of Jesus firsthand. Please read the scriptures which I cited below which record this.
---Eloy on 5/15/06


jack, I'm not upset by your insolence. I stand on the proven Rock, so I hardly get upset by challenging gainsayers.
---Eloy on 5/15/06


alan, you sound a lot like the skeptic cliff #1. Jesus had many followers, and Luke was one of Jesus' disciples also. He also witnessed firsthand the works and words of Christ, proven by his detailed documentation. As far as the birth, Matthew and Luke recorded it, and as for the the gospel witnessed by John, John wrote it.
---Eloy on 5/15/06


alan, the 1st Christians had the gospel of the N.T. witnessing firsthand Jesus' life ministry, and his death and resurrection at 32 years of age. That's the foundation of the N.T. After this the 1st Christians also received Paul's conversion, and his life ministry.
---Eloy on 5/15/06


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Eloy, you are misrepresenting what I said. I did NOT say "they turned the world upside down"--putting the "with NT in hand" as part of my quote from the Bible, as you have accused me of doing.

You seem to be very upset that I have challenged you on what the Bible actually says.
---Jack on 5/14/06


Eloy ... and who wrote the accounts of the Birth, and of John's ministry? Certainly not the Gospel writers at the time.
"Jesus said to keep his sayings" Why sould it necessarily "follow that his sayings were written down to be kept, just as the scriptures reveal" My daughters remember what I taught them many years ago ... no need for it to be written down.
It is fanciful to imagine the disciples writing things down immediately, and there is no mention of it in the Bible.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/14/06


Eloy ... and do you really think the gospel writers wrote them as they witnessed what Jesus was saying and doing? Surely Luke was not even one of those who accompanied Jesus, and clearly the other gospels differ slightly in the recollections of old men of what happened in their youth. It seems generally accepted that they were written later as an account of what htis man had done & said.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/14/06


Eloy ... the first Christians did not have the majority of the NT, because Paul came a little later, and then he wrote separately to different churches, so each of these would have had only the letter addressed to them.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/14/06


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jack, the verse you quoted does not say the christians turned the world upside down "without the N.T. in their hand." You added that falsehood which is not presented in the verse.
---Eloy on 5/14/06


jack, the first christians wrote every single word and deed that they witnessed first-hand of Christ by their own hand while he ministered, just as revealed in scripture, how else were they going to keep every point and mandate which he commanded them? But you will believe whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 5/14/06


jack, Please read the scriptures I have cited. Jesus said to keep his sayings, so it would follow that his sayings were written down to be kept, just as the scriptures reveal. How do suppose every smallest of detail was given which Jesus both did and spoke, if it were not recorded while he was ministering? His works were recorded by manual writing by hand. And these letters were distributed among the churches to be read, much much later they were gathered together and bound into a book called the Bible.
---Eloy on 5/14/06


Remember, the apostles and first generation of Christians "turned the world upside down" (Acts 17:6) without having the NT in their hands.
---Jack on 5/13/06


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Whether the Word was written or not would not make it not the Word. Our world has been weakened by the written word. Ask any native American where their history is written? They will say in memory. In stories passed on generation to generation requiring word by word memorization by the youth. It was so in early Hebrew and Greek times as well. Moses "wrote" all of the prior times in the Bible, yet it fits amazingly well with all other scripture as well as history. Maybe God DOES have control!
---mikefl on 5/13/06


Eloy, please give your proof that the apostles were writing down Jesus's words and activities as they took place. Even a cursory reading of the canonical Gospels shows they were written years AFTER the events described.
---Jack on 5/13/06


Josef, Christian literature didn't begin and end with the Bible. The early commentators, who faced fire and sword, said clearly that all that was necessary to sart the end-times scenario was the appearance of Antichrist (which showed they did not identify him with a Roman emperor), AFTER which came the Tribulation and THEN the rapture.

This is the sequence the Bible teaches.
---Jack on 5/13/06


I don't have an issue with any part of the NT. I DO have an issue with the fuzzy idea that the first generation of Christians all had their NTs, as some seem to be thinking.

According to all evidence, none of the NT was written down in the first 25-30 years AFTER the Ascension.
---Jack on 5/13/06


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Thank you Eloy. I am not a man of knowledge where history is concerned, but that statement did strike me as questionable.
---josef on 5/13/06


jack, that is not the truth. For as Christ Jesus was preaching, his words and miracles were simultaneously being recorded by his disciples, and by others.
---Eloy on 5/13/06


Jack, That is because they had the spoken word of the disciples and apostles. I am curious what part of the NT do you have an issue with? Or is it just the fact that there are so many translations that makes you uncomfortable? You seem grounded in your belief that there is no rapture, were did you gain that knowledge?
---josef on 5/12/06


According to the final words of Acts 2, the Church functioned in all her fullness before ONE WORD of the New Testament was written down.

At least 25-30 years passed before any of the NT books were penned.
---Jack on 5/12/06


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