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Jesus Went To Paradise Or Heaven

If Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise on Friday (Luk 23:43), then why did He tell Mary that He had not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday (John 20:17)?

Moderator - Paradise and Heaven are two different places.

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 ---jerry6593 on 5/15/06
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Because He hadn't been there. Heaven and Paradise are two different places.
---Betty on 5/11/09

Thanks Tom,
who knows what happened to the grammer between the spoken Aramaic, written Septuagent and translated English.

The moderator could have extended the question to "which heaven?" with Paul recording the only reference in scripture to a third heaven.
---larry on 5/9/09

Because his physical body did not go up to paradise also known as heaven when he was on the cross, only his Spirit was given up to heaven, but he did not take his body up until later, after his resurrection.
---Eloy on 5/9/09

Two weeks back, I also had the same revelation that Jesus went to Paradise immediately after his death based on the statement Jesus told to the thief. I also had the same revelation that he went to his father's place after 40 days based on the statement by Jesus to Mary that he had not yet gone to His father's place. He went to His father's place on the 40th day of demise in presence of his disciples. Till that period, Jesus was with his disciples also.
---Mettilda on 5/8/09

Yeshua said today thou shalt be with me in paradise. After the ressurection He told mary touch me not, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father in Heaven. So he was in paradise.
---wayne on 7/10/08

My readings indicate that the comma was placed in the wrong place.

I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise.

I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.
---Tom on 7/10/08

I agree, Heaven and Paradise are two different places.
---Michelle on 3/26/08

The Bible DOES NOT SAY the thief died that day. Rather that the thief and the other were taken away after their legs were broken.
John 19:31-36 Truly read it slowly and don't add anything. Let God speak through the Holy Spirit.

God Bless
---gerardo on 1/30/08

Ramon, the truth about death is not only found in Eccl 9:6. It's all over the Bible:
1 Corinthians 15:51-55
1 Corinthians 5:5
Colossians 3:4
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
2 Thessalonians 2:1
2 Timothy 4:7, 8
Acts 2:29, 34
just for starters
---Geoff on 8/2/06

Geoff.The theme of the book of Ecclesiastes is the way things appear "under the sun.Its how life appears from an earthly perspective under the sun.How does that Goes well with your "unconscious death"? Even in 9:6 we read "under the sun".And you wont accept the fact.

You again avoid other literal interpretations. Stop using Esscl 9:5 to prove your point, the theme of the book is what things appear in a human perspective.
---Ramon on 7/25/06

Ramon, what are you talking about? Eccl 9:6 doesn't deny the resurrection. "For ever" is as far as this life is concerned. Have you ever waited "for ever" for someone to show up? On the other hand, how many resurrections have you experienced. All deaths I know about to this point have not yet been undone by resurrection. This will happen when Jesus comes. So "under the sun" (or in this life) that's how things are, but when Jesus comes, there will be a new heaven and new earth
---Geoff on 7/25/06

Geoff.According to you it is!. The theme of the book of Ecclesiastes is the way things appear "under the sun".However you take as literal as "the dead no nothing" in 9:5.

You avoid the literal interpretation of other statements such as the denial of the resurrection in 9:6, the denial of a reward for the righteous in 9:5, the denial that it matters how one lives one's life in 9:2-3.You avoid the context for your SDA sake. And you refuse to accept the truth.
---Ramon on 7/25/06

was the rich man in hell and Lazarus in Paradise?
---r.w. on 7/24/06

Ramon, Ec 9:6 is not a denial of the resurrection. Everything is as far as this life is concerned. See verses 9, 10. Jesus makes a similar statement about God's impartiality:

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:45
---Geoff on 7/16/06

#2.Note how the the SDA and others take as literal the dead know nothing in an attempt to make an unbiblical doctrine. Yet they avoid the literal interpretation of other statements such as the denial of the resurrection in 9:6, the denial of a reward for the righteous in 9:5, the denial that it matters how one lives one's life in 9:2-3, and the denial that man is spiritually superior to the beasts in 3:19.

In other words, they ignores the context when it suits their purpose.
---Ramon on 7/8/06

The theme of the book of Ecclesiastes is the way things appear "under the sun.The author's intention was to express his personal reflection on how life appears from an earthly perspective under the sun. Occurs 29 times in the book. This important phrase means as things appear from an earthly perspective

However the SDA ignore the truth because this way they deceive those who are ignorant of, or have a poor understanding of, the proper way to interpret the Bible.
---Ramon on 7/8/06

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Tofurabby-How do you live together with the Lord when you are dead (asleep)?

Tofurabby, the answer is the resurrection. That's what the resurrection is for-Rev 20:5.
---Geoff on 7/7/06

How do you live together with the Lord when you are dead (asleep)?
"Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." 1 Thess. 5:10
When you die, is he no longer your God?
"For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him." Luke 20:38
I dont know why I even bother... your doctrine is corrupt. Your belief that Christ is just an Angel has discredited anything that comes from you.
---tofurabby on 7/7/06

Tofurabby, Moses & Elijah were very much conscious on the Mount with Jesus-Mt 17:1-8; Lk 9:28-36. Paul is very much alive when he penned Phil 1:23-24. Rachel named her son Benoni before she died then she died-Gen 35:18. Nowhere does the Bible claim the spirit has consciousness or intellegence-Eccl 12:7. How does Mt 10:28 prove counsciousness after death? And finally, you are going to have a hard time converting a parable into a doctrine-Lk 16:19-31 when the rest of Bible says unconscious death-Eccl 9:5.
---Geoff on 7/6/06

So, the physical body and soul are together in this life, and, according to the Bible, we get a heavenly body at the resurrection, so if the soul can survive in the next life without a heavenly body, then why do we need to get a heavenly body at the resurrection? I know why: the truth is, the spirit stays with the body 'asleep in Christ' until the resurrection, at which time we receive a heavenly body and the spirit arises with it.
---John_W_in_Texas on 7/6/06

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John_W_in_Texas, I assume that you are referring to the word sleep in 1 Cor. 15:20 which is referring to the physical body, not the soul. There are plenty of scriptures that shows consciousness after death.
Moses and Elijah appearing on the Mount with Jesus: Matt. 17:1-8; Luke 9:28-36
Dead in the flesh is present with christ: Phil. 1:23-24
OT, Rachel's saul departs at death: Gen. 35:18
There are many: Eccl. 12:7; Matt. 10:28; and lets not forget Lazarus in Luke 16; etc.
---tofurabby on 7/6/06

The Lord does not lie. If he said "today though shalt be with me in paradise," it happened. Just because his body hadn't risen and his time of ascention as the sacrifice without spot pleasing and acceptable to God his Father does not mean his Spirit hadnt been with his Father upon leaving his body.
---Frank on 7/6/06

Nowhere in the Bible is a definitive scripture delineating between paradise and heaven, so the question of where Jesus went is subject to pure speculation. The *point* is, that Jesus didn't go anywhere until the 3rd day, so either he flat out lied to the thief about where they'd be that day, or he meant they'd both be sleeping in their respective tombs that day (the more-obvious answer). What's being missed here and sorely-overlooked, is detailed in 1 Cor. Chap. 15.
---John_W_in_Texas on 7/6/06

Paradise and heaven are two different places.
---Audrea on 7/5/06

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Jesus was obviously giving her the physical report. He later told Thomas to touch Him. So He would have physically gone to the father by then. He is there now, as He ascended with 500 people as witnesess. Then Stephen saw Him on the right hand of the father as he gave up the spirit also.
---john on 7/5/06

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 disputes the 'theory' that immediately following death the soul/ghost/spirit leaves the body and enters heaven/paradise/bosom. It simply isn't true. The word 'paradise' appears only in 3 verses in the NT and 'heaven' appears 226 times. All should read the black, not the white.
---John_W_in_Texas on 7/5/06

As i been reading some answeres as to heaven,so far i have'nt seen that Jesus was preparing a place for us. So will there be two heavens then?
---jim5812 on 6/26/06

Jerry.We have talk about this before.You say peoples souls go to sleep afterdeath,but scriptures disagree with you on this subject.Your doctrine of soul sleep contradict scriptures.You have before took scriptures out-of-context to prove soul sleep.Your soul sleep theory doesn't hold up in water.Jesus soul left his body as do all people at death according to the bible.Souls dont go to the grave.
---Ramon on 6/2/06

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Ramon: Please provide proof text(s) to justify your contentention that Jesus' soul left His body and did not enter the tomb.
---jerry6593 on 6/2/06

Fred: The Garden of Eden was evidently removed from earth before the flood.
---jerry6593 on 6/2/06

Gerardo: You didn't answer my question;

If what Jesus said (Lk. 23:43) isn't good enough for you, what more can I say?
---Leon on 5/31/06

Chris, by Jesus saying that, I believe He was redeeming/saving the thief because he so belived that Jesus was the His next return will see the thief in heaven. And moderator, I believe Paradise was where Adam & Eve were and Heaven is where the Father is with Jesus at His right hand interceeding for us.
---jana on 5/30/06

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My bible Has TREE (singular) of life also, but the two scriptures tells me it was in the garden and also in Heaven seen by John. Can you explain that? Or could this mean that Heaven is on Earth?
---Fred_S. on 5/30/06

A common belief of the SDA and Jehovah's Witnesses that the comma is in the wrong place. "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Their view is since the original Greek text had no punctuation it could just as well be read, "Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise." Which is wrong and doesnt work because Jesus used the phrase "I say to you" very regularly and never attached a condition to it like "today".
---chris on 5/30/06

Leon, provide the scripture that states the thief died that same day!!
There are many sites that you can research that state that a crucifiction was:
to provide a slow painful and public death.
The legs of the crucified were often broken, to make the victim die sooner. Usually the majority of the crucified ones died of dehydration and fatigue, not of the blood loss or the injuries. Crucifixion was a gruesome, painful and slow death, and the victim might live for days before he finally died.
---gerardo on 5/30/06

Jerry.Jesus body went to the Tomb,not his soul.Dont get confuse to what stay behind and what leave the body.His body stay there.His soul was not there.
---Ramon on 5/30/06

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Gerardo: What proof text(s) do you have to support your claim the repentent thief died on a different day other than Friday?

Your understanding is erroneous as to why the soldiers broke the legs of the thief. Clearly it was intended to expedite his death, i.e., to cause his body to sag & suffocate him.
---Leon on 5/30/06

Leon: My tree of life proof below clearly demonstrates from Bible texts alone the irrefutable conclusion that Heaven and Paradise are one and the same place. Jesus went neither place on Good Friday - He went to the tomb. The Bible says He was not raised to life until Sunday. What meaning has the Sunday resurrection if there was no death on Friday?
---jerry6593 on 5/30/06

Gerardo: Good question! Is it possible Eutychus only seemed (appeared) to be dead to those who picked him up? However, thru the power of the Holy Spirit, Paul discerned he was still alive? (Acts 20:10)

"Not a little comforted" (Acts 20:12), sounds like they were overjoyed & rejoiced to the glory of God for what He'd done thru Paul. What say you?
---Leon on 5/30/06

cont. Since Jesus and the thief died on different days they could not have been together in Paradise (today).

When a person comes to Jesus and asks his forgiveness for their sins, that individual is also told the same thing from the Holy Spirit that Jesus spoke to the thief. That same day we accept Jesus as our Lord & Saviour we are saved.

The thief acknowledged that Jesus is Lord and Saviour, Son of God, and received the free gift of Grace.
---gerardo on 5/30/06

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In this instance, because the sabbath was drawing near (NEW DAY) they had to be brought down and this allowed the people to breathe easier since they were not up right but laying down. That is why their legs had to be broken.

We as Christians have forgotten many things. One of them being that the (NEW DAYS) begin at sunset, not at midnight.

Jesus died on Preparation Day (Friday), the thief, died on a different day ( Sabbath, 1st day, etc????) cont....
---gerardo on 5/30/06

Leon (I agree with CN bloggers who believe Heaven & Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) aren't the same places . Where's the Bible proof the thief went immediately to Heaven?)

Leon I don't believe the thief went to paradise or heaven that day because I don't believe he died that day. As you stated "Often, crucified people lingered (in horrific agony) a very long time before dying." And that is when they are up-right.
---gerardo on 5/30/06

Gerardo: Lazarus obviously was a faithful & righteous man. He was Jesus' friend. (Lk. 11:11)

Jesus hadn't yet been crucified & resurrected, so when Lazarus died his "conscious" soul went to be with the saints in Paradise.

Jesus resuscitated (restored) Lazarus' soul, i.e., "God" brought his soul back to his dead body & awakened him . Why? For "the glory of God." (Jn. 11:4, 15, 21-45)
---Leon on 5/30/06

Gerardo: Jesus was suffering -- in extreme agony. He was dying! Where do you think he added his comma or was that really an issue with him?

It's not about punctuation -- all about salvation!

Before Jesus ascended bodily into Heaven (Lk. 24:51; Acts 1:9-11), he descended (Eph. 4:7-10) into Hades (Paradise side of Hell; Abraham's Bosom) & the repentent thief went (just as Jesus said he would) with him.
---Leon on 5/30/06

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Gerardo: Sorry, I haven't visited this particular blog for a few days. I think the referenced scripture (Mk. 15:42-45) clearly shows Pilate was very surprised Jesus had died so soon after being crucified. Often, crucified people lingered (in horrific agony) a very long time before dying.

I agree with CN bloggers who believe Heaven & Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) aren't the same places . Where's the Bible proof the thief went immediately to Heaven?
---Leon on 5/29/06

What about Eutychus??(after the crucifiction)
Acts20:9: And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
20:10: And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.

If his soul went to heaven at death, did Paul command the soul to return from heaven?? Or was he given a new soul.
---gerardo on 5/27/06

Lazarus, John11:43: And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
11:44: And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

If his soul was in paradise, why did not Jesus command his soul to return. Jesus commanded the body to come alive. Was Lazarus given a new soul and his old soul remain in paradise until the crucifiction?? 2 souls now???
---gerardo on 5/27/06

There was no punctuation and that makes a big difference.
(KJV, 1611)Luke23:43:
(comma before to day)
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
(no puntuation)
And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee To day shalt thou be with me in paradise
(comma after to day)
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Leon, where are you adding your comma.
---gerardo on 5/27/06

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Leon I apologize for not answering earlier please read Mark 15:42-45. 44:Pilate couldn't believe that Jesus was already dead, so he called for the Roman military officer in charge and asked him.(NLT)
44:And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling [unto him] the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead. (KJV)

The reason this is important is because people will use the thief as proof that a person's soul goes directly to Heaven after death.
---gerardo on 5/27/06

Im not saying Purgatory is "Abraham's Bossom" Nor Am im saying that Purgatory is biblical(which is not).Jesus body was in the tomb; His soul/spirit went to the Paradise realm of Sheol / Hades. He then removed all the righteous dead from Paradise and took them with Him to Heaven.Ephesians 4:8-10.Now For believers, after death is to be heaven(2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23).Very simple.
---Ramon on 5/27/06

Thirdly, when Jesus said he hadn't returned to the Father yet, he was saying he hadn't gone there permanently. That doesn't mean he hadn't gone there at all.
Fourthly, the "today" in Jesus' statement to the theif did not mean literally one day, but very soon....there are so many other places in the bible where today is used figuratively...and even in English language, we can use days figuratively. For example, we usually say: "Children are TOMORROW's leaders."
---Okebaram on 5/27/06

First, "Abraham's bossom" is heaven. That's were OT men and women of God went to: the same heaven. Remember jesus' parable: Lazarus and the rich man. Jesus died so that salvation will not be limited to a few people among other things. Secondly, when Jesus died, He went to hades or hell, not heaven. Not hell-fire; no he went to Satan's kingdom (which, as well as death, is sometimes called hades or hell) and overturned satan's dominion over man and this earth, legally because hed paid for our sins
---Okebaram on 5/27/06

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Ramons says "Paradise or Abrahams bosom was part of Hades.Luke 16.The Righteous were held in this place until Jesus died on the cross for all of us.Therefore, there could be no salvation until Jesus died on the cross for us"

That very simply is a kind of purgatory except he's calling purgatory "Abraham's Bossom"
Not biblical.
---Okebaram on 5/27/06

Fred: My bible says TREE (singular) of life. There is only one.
---jerry6593 on 5/27/06

Jerry.Purgatory?First,this is unbiblical and Im talking about a different subject.Luke 16 (Abraham Bosom).Now everyone goes to Heaven.Fully aware of things.
---Ramon on 5/18/06

Here my take on this.
Gen. 1:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; THE TREE OF LIFE also in the midst of the garden (maybe PARADISE), and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Rev.2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of THE TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE (maybe Eden) of God.

Are there two TREES OF LIFE?
---Fred_S. on 5/18/06

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Ramon: Your discription of paradise sounds quite similar to the non-Biblical concept of purgatory.
---jerry6593 on 5/18/06

#2. The bible is so clear. One more time. Before Jesus death everyone who had died with into Abraham bosom.Jesus describe or at least talk about it in Luke 16:19-31. The bible also states that Jesus took these people to Heaven.Ephesians 4:8-10.Now all believers go to Heaven upon death.
---Ramon on 5/17/06

The bible cant not be any clearer. Upon the OT saints they went to paradise(Abrahams bosom). After Jesus death he took them to Heaven. Now Everyone goes to Heaven afterdeath. Also the bible speaks of 3 types of "heavens or heaven".
---Ramon on 5/17/06

I will say this one more time. Paradise and Heaven are NOW one and the same. Paul went to paradise/heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 12:002 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 012:003 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise.
---BoDilly on 5/17/06

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The premise that those of the OT went to paradise and not Heaven is not supported at all by scripture. The word "paradise" does not even appear in the KJV OT. "and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into HEAVEN." (2Kings 2:11)
---jerry6593 on 5/17/06

#3.Paradise or Abrahams bosom was part of Hades.Luke 16.The Righteous were held in this place until Jesus died on the cross for all of us.Therefore, there could be no salvation until Jesus died on the cross for us.Once Jesus died people can now enter Heaven.After Jesus death this "holding place" was no longer needed and was done away with. And according to scriptures Jesus took these people to Heaven.John 3:13 said no men enter Heaven only the Son.Jesus went to paradise(Abraham bosom).
---Ramon on 5/17/06

Jerry#2.Please reread Luke 16:19-31.Now everyone (in the past )is in heaven.Fully AWare of things around them and are waiting for their ressurected bodies.
---Ramon on 5/17/06

A little study of scripture will let you let you know that paradise was the place of OT saints.After Jesus death he took them to Heaven.You may believe that paradise(abraham bolosm)and Heaven are the same place but they are not.Make no difference wither Jesus,The theif,or the OT saints went to heaven or paradise since SDA believe the false doctrine of Soul-sleep.
---Ramon on 5/17/06

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Jerry6593: Regarding the second part of your question. I believe it can be explained like this. Jesus died bodily (physically) on Friday & arose on Sunday. That is to say, after leaving paradise, his spirit returned to & resurrected his physical body which was instantly changed (for example, 1 Cor. 15:50-52). Jesus was talking to Mary about his physical bodily ascension (Lk. 24:50-51). He hadn't gone to heaven yet in his physical body though he'd been there (on Friday) in his spirit .
---Leon on 5/17/06

Jerry6593: Jesus gave up the ghost (his spirit) into his Father's hands (Lk. 23:46). His eternal spirit immediately went to heaven & reunited with the Godhead. He was no longer willfully limited by his human fraility & subsequently resumed his omnipotence, omniscience & omnipresent attributes. I believe this explains how he could be in heaven & paradise (Lk. 23:43; Eph. 4:9) simultaneously.

Like Elder has said, this isn't a doctrinal issue.
---Leon on 5/17/06

Elder (2): Consider also the tree of life. The Bible says (Rev 2:7) that the tree of life (access to which is granted only to overcomers and commandment keepers [Rev 22:14]) is in PARADISE. This tree spans the river that flows from the throne of God (Rev 22:2). Thus PARADISE is where the throne of God resides. According to Acts 7:49, the throne of God is in HEAVEN. By this simple Biblical proof, it is clear that Paradise and Heaven are indeed the same place.
---jerry6593 on 5/17/06

Jerry, your questions/comments to me are not rude.
Jesus said He would prepare a place for us in the Fathers house, Jn 14:1-3.
Paradise was where the OT Saints went. NT Saints go to Heaven.
A study of Hell, Heaven and Paradise will take some time but reveal this. Read Luke 16 and Isa 5:14 this foretells of the enlargement of Hell and about Paradise.
This is an issue to learn not argue for it has nothing to do with the main doctrine of Salvation or who God is.
---Elder on 5/17/06

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According to many scripture Paradise or Abraham bosom(Luke 16:19-31) was prior to Jesus death not After.Jesus was Not in two place.That was the Abode of the save BEFORE Jesus death.Please reread the scriptures.
---Ramon on 5/17/06

Dear friend Elder: Forgive me for appearing rude, but the Scriptures exhort us to "prove all things." I have not found your former treatise on Paradise/Heaven, as one can become very "blogged" down on this site. Consider for a moment that Jesus said He was going to prepare a place (singular) for us that we might be with Him (Jon 14:3). How then could there be two abodes for the righteous? And how could Jesus be in two places at once since He is now in a corporeal body (Luk 24:39)?

Moderator - Paradise was prior to Christ dieing on the cross.
---jerry6593 on 5/17/06

Gerardo: When did Pilate question if Jesus was dead? Bible book, chapter & verse(s) please.

What does the repentant thief going to paradise & not seeing or perhaps seeing the unrepentant thief have to do with this blog? You're obviously adding superflous theories unrelated to what the Bible says.
---Leon on 5/17/06

I do not think anyone heard me the first time. Heaven and paradice "WERE" 2 different places, As I stated before Paradice is the name of the third heaven now. Elder was right in what he posted, but that was not the extent. Paradice had to go somewhere. It went up. Three heavens, research them. Paradice and Heaven are now one and the same. It is where Paul went.
---BoDilly on 5/16/06

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Leon: The Roman soldiers were expert executioners & the breaking of the legs was done to expedite death by suffocation.

If this is true why did Pilate question if Jesus was truly dead.

Jesus did not make an error. He simply told the thief that the thief received Grace and salvation that day. If the thief had died and went down to Paradise like some believe he would have seen the other thief in the different compartment.
---gerardo on 5/16/06

Jerry. Review the scriptures we have cited. You told the MOD to prove it, most here alreadly did. Wither you believe the bible or not thats up to you.
---Ramon on 5/16/06

Jerry I have already posted why Heaven and Paradise are two different places. Paradise was a place called Abraham's bosom. You may elect to call Heaven Paradise if you want but it is not. People elect to be happy when God has called us to Joy. Joy and happiness are not the same either.
One is on a higher plane than the other. Believing in Heaven and Paradise are not doctrinal issues so there is no need to be rude. Remember the train station is not the train.
---Elder on 5/16/06

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