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Offending Each Other Blogs

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Enjoy warwick - you'll be missed.
---Andrea on 8/25/07

Tim ... JohnT's question was posted over a year ago.
Since then he has left ... partly because of the back-biting, multiple-name bloggers and impersonators.
But he is now back, and has been contributing on other blogs.
He is a courteous blogger, unlike some, and discusses honestly, and I know this because I disagree with him strongly on one issue
---alan_of_UK on 8/25/07

It has been a pleasue defending Jesus' Truth against the wolves.

I am off to France today for 2 months & want to encourage those who stand for Biblical truth. Keep up the God work.

To the wolves in the fold- forgivness is always available from Jesus Himself.
---Warwick on 8/25/07

Oh, Im catholic, and by choice not birth. The church has always been most open to my inquiries. Though we dont agree on all doctrine, its the first church, and the real church for me. 10,000+ protestant sects tells me that figuring it out for yourself doesnt work so well...There is a new version of truth for every reader.
---sherry on 8/25/07

If you boldly claim you were a catholic, an atheist, a mormon, a holiness fundamental, an SDA, a JW and everything inbetween but have not been, except in your own imagination - what does that make you?

And we overcome by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony,
If your bearing a false testimony of who Jesus Christ is in your life, that's more than a mental imbalance.
Are you even saved or delivered from a nature of sin?
---Tim on 8/24/07

If lies are a part of your every day living, just because you can, and you think it's fun - who's camp are you really in?
Do those lies deserve a response?
Is it not time for bloggers with sincere motives/hearts to reveal Christ to someone who may not blog, but read them?
Why respond to a false witness or a false prophet. Why not take back the integrity that was here before one roaring lion set out to destroy this experience for everyone?
---Tim on 8/24/07

JohnT., it is good that you have come back.
Why should one person manipulate and mess with so many heads?
Who wants that any longer, I don't think very many do.
---Tim on 8/24/07

JohnT., it was a good question then, and it's a good question now.
I think those who use false names for a false testimony, for a false religion they've never been a part of, are bearing a false witness.
If you can tell blatant bold lies, bearing a false witness about a church you've never been a part of, what does that make you?
If the word of your testimony about Jesus Christ is full of lies, what does that make you?
---Tim on 8/24/07

Mark my Bibles say the earth & light were created on day one. It was without its final form & uninhabited but it was there.

All that's needed for a day is a rotating earth & fixed light source. Therefore God was able to say- the evening & the morning were the first day.

Remember this is the first use of the word day, therefore when we say 1st day or 2nd day our meaning is defined by first use.
---Warwick on 8/24/07

When we place a number with the word day it always means an earth-rotation day. We are off to France this Sunday for 2 months & on our 'first day' we will go shopping for food for our apartment. Do you need to ask me how long our first day will be?

For God to say evening & morning there has to be a rotating earth & light. Just like all the creation days & since. I prefer to take God at his Word!
---Warwick on 8/24/07

MikeM Jesus & the apostles quoted from or referred to the first 11 chapters of Genesis 107 times. Not once is there even a hint of there being 2 creation versions.

As I have quoted before Jesus the Creator obviously there at the beginning put part of Genesis 1 & Genesis 2 together without even the slightest suggestion of there being any contradiction.

I prefer to believe Jesus The Way, The Truth & The Life rather than the beliefs of an anti-Christian.
---Warwick on 8/24/07

Sherry-my name is Warwick. Thank you for admitting your belief-that the Bible isn't the Word of God. Jesus says it is so as you call him a liar I have absolutely no reason to take you seriously.

As the Creator says we have God's Word then we have all the evidence we need even proof beyond reasonable doubt.

Outside of that we have the opinions of men which constantly chhange. Why base your life on changing opinions?

BTW what religion are you a member of?
---Warwick on 8/24/07

Sherry it seems the reason you won't define what you mean by evolution is that you don't have a clear understanding of what it entails.

You have said that evolution doesn't contradict Scripture. However as microbe to man evolution is the opposite of Scripture in every way I must reason you have little knowledge of Scripture or evolution.

Definition of evolution please.
---Warwick on 8/24/07

warrick. On many things there is no evidence and faith prevails. On things where there is evidence, the evidence speaks for itself. The bible was written by people, unknown, and numberous. They wrote over 1000 years. Do you really expect taht people 6000 years ago understood evolution?
---sherry on 8/24/07

warrick, why would i redefine the obvious. I dont define it any differently than the dictionary does. We have methods for dating things. What are dinosaur bones? the levianthan? I dont believe the bible is the "word of God" but man's interpretation of his experience of God. If God wrote it...he wrote it pretty dumb cause all people do is argue.
---sherry on 8/24/07

1. The Bible straightforwardly says Do not suffer a witch to live. In the NT in Corinthians it says women are to be silent in church, and that their heads should be covered. Interpretation is, and always has been employed to mollify what is uncomfortable, and to reinforce ones subjective presuppositions.

2. One can endeavor to reject the fact there are two creation stories with separate timelines, but is remains. Looking at my pre- Septuagint script this is apparent and unambiguous.
---MikeM on 8/24/07

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In the Bible, a day is ALWAYS defined as being from sunset of one day until sunset of the following day.

In recent millenia, this is the same as 24 hours. But this is OUR own way of counting days, NOT the way the Bible counts them (especially since we measure from midnight to midnight, not sunset to sunset).

During the first few days of creation, there WAS no earth nor any sun, so the traditional "sunset to sunset" measurement was not POSSIBLE to apply yet.
---Mark on 8/24/07

Mark God told us how He created He spoke everything into existence. I imagine He didn't give details as we aren't intelligent enough to comprehend such power.

His genealogies also give a time-line showing this all occurred some thousands of years ago, not billions.

Christians who reject the straight forward account of Creation & the genealogies do so because of non-Biblical bias. No one can give Scriptural referencess for the long-ages evolutionary view.
---Warwick on 8/23/07

Sherry my question was: How do YOU define evolution? It occurs to me that as you are unwilling to give a definition you are unclear as to what you are talking about.

I find this evasiveness common in those who wish to reinterpret the perfect word of God because of the opinions of imperfect man.

By faith I understand how & when creation began because His Word tells me.

What do you see that looks millions of years old?
---Warwick on 8/23/07

Sherry it's obvious you can't accept the straight forward meaning of Genesis (the view Jesus the creator & Apostles took) because you prefer to believe man's fables.

The same 'science' which rejects Biblical creation also rejects miracles, virgin-birth, resurrection etc.

Would it not therefore be consistent of you to reject anything in Scripture which these 'scientists' reject?

Jesus said if you don't believe me about earthly things how can you believe me about heavenly things?
---Warwick on 8/23/07

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Mark on this issue you are convincing me you are 'willingly ignorant.'

In Genesis 1:1-5 God deals with the first day ending with 'there was evening there was morning-the first day. As you must know the word day when used with a number always means a literal 24hr day. Otherwise if I said come in 5 days you would have to ask- how long are your days? Ridiculous.
The first day therefore is a day like the following 5-
---Warwick on 8/23/07

If you're correct one of the 10 commandments is meaningless. How long would we work on your first day? God instituted the week- work six, rest one. Seven ordinary days to me but to you?

Mark your stubborn refusal to take Genesis at face value is because you have accepted non-Biblical ideas & are interpreting Scripture through them..

The Apostle Peter said that it was by faith that we understand that the earth was created. Is your position one of faith?
---Warwick on 8/23/07

Mark you've taken 2 Peter 3:8 out of context. It refers to Christ's return, having nothing to do with creation or definition of 'day.'

Peter, talking of God compares a thousand years to a day, & a day to a thousand years. He doesn't say one's the same as the other. He could only do this if he was confident his readers already knew what a day & a thousand years were. Otherwise his comment is meaningless.

24hr days were organized for us not God who is outside of time.
---Warwick on 8/23/07

Jude 1:3 - Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints

Lisa I am not an apostle but at the risk of being nice nice people die in their sin - but keep being nice - don't offend - let them go to hell in a handbag - but God forbid don't offend.
---Andrea on 8/23/07

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Warrick. Define evolution? a dictionary. Why do you think God created everything in 6 days 6 thousand years ago and then went to the trouble to make it all look millions of years old?
---Sherry on 8/23/07

Stop offending each other by stop being the judge and condemning people who love the Lord!
This is the biggest problem with people on this site.
You tell Catholics, who are Christian, that they can 't possibly love the Lord as much as another Christian etc...
This is a very bad way to get your points across.
---Lisa on 8/23/07


You are assuming day 1 was 24 hours long. But how can you know? The only reason we NOW use a 24 hour day is because that is how long it takes the earth to rotate once with respect to the sun. However, such measurements are MEANINGLESS when there IS no earth and there IS no sun.

God's time is often very different from ours:
2 Peter 3:8
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
---Mark on 8/23/07


"Contrary to what you say Genesis tells us the exact order in which God created & how He did it."

That is NOT contrary to what I said. that is WHAT I said. I said it didn't say HOW, because it didn't get into technical details. Making planets is likely quite complicated, but beyond our need to know.
---Mark on 8/23/07

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Compromise on Genesis then compromise on everything. Jesus thought enough of Genesis to quote it - if it needed revisions He could have done it.
You have nothing to fear believing God - He told you the truth. Re-think the evolution thing - it has brought atheism a religion.
---Andrea on 8/23/07

Billbila- If you read Genesis God says He created the heavens,the earth & light on the first day. He then says the evening & the morning were the first day. He repeats this pattern for the whole six days of creation.

All we need for a day/night cycle is a fixed light source & a turning earth.

God is consistent so as there is evening & morning on day 5- fixed light source/turning earth then the situation was the same as day one except the light now came from the sun.
---Warwick on 8/22/07

Jesus said 'if you don't believe me about earthly things how will you believe me about heavenly things?'

Bill many Christians have accepted non-Biblical evolutionary/long-ages ideas about the past & now reinterpret Scripture to fit these ideas. Accepting ideas of man who wasn't a witness while rejecting testimony of the perfect God who was there.

We are supposed to be people of faith in Christ- is this a position of faith?
---Warwick on 8/22/07

Sherry I asked you to define the evolution you write about. Why haven't you done so? It is a fair & proper question.

BTW I don't slavishly copy information from creation sites, I do understand it & have written some of it. I only recommend well researched material.

I have not tried to 'explain away' the ridiculous two versions of creation idea,but explained it showing that Jesus the Creator saw no contradiction. If He doesn't why do you?

Who are you believing- God or man?
---Warwick on 8/22/07

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Mark the earth was created on day one along with light. 'In the beginning God created the heavens & the earth'- this was day one, the first day ever! That's what it means, the first ever ever day!

The evening & the morning were the first day-evening = the dark part of a day & morning = the light part. Rotating earth + fixed light source = I x 24hr (or thereabouts) day.

What else could evening & morning refer to if not the two components of an ordinary day?
---Warwick on 8/22/07

Mark you sure do get some things backwards.

Contrary to what you say Genesis tells us the exact order in which God created & how He did it.

The evolutionary belief doesn't have things appearing in the same order as Genesis. Do some research. One example-Genesis, earth on day one before the sun. Evolution- earth appears after billions of years, after the sun & so on.

The whole concept of evolution is anti-Biblical & bad science.
---Warwick on 8/22/07

"There are two creation stories and you cant explain them away."

Actually, there's only one with the second recounting zooming in for more detail on one aspect of the whole--rather common practice back then. See Kitchen's book on the Ancient Near East.
---djconklin on 8/22/07

Well, if there were days before the sun was made, this could show that days, then, were not what humans experience days to be. And they were in eternity, with no time as measured by the sun's position relative to the earth. A day could be a SPIRITUAL thing >

"These things we also speak,
not in words which man's wisdom teaches
but which the Holy Spirit teaches,
comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
(1 Corinthians 2:13)
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/22/07

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There are two creation stories and you cant explain them away. Just because the bible is not a scientific document explaining creation doesnt mean God wasnt involved. Explain that second law of thermodynamics or stop copying junk you dont understand off creation sites.
---Sherry on 8/22/07


There wasn't even an EARTH to light for the first few days. Without sun or earth, how do you measure days? I'm pretty sure there weren't any stopwatches around either.
---Mark on 8/22/07


Genesis teaches how God created the cosmos, and the earth, and all life on the earth. It gives a very brief synopsis and doesn't go into detail about just exactly HOW God performed each of those steps.

Evolution does not concern itself with any of those subjects except the last one. And it teaches exactly the same sequence of events as Genesis does. Evolution does not conflict with the Bible - it agrees with it.
---Mark on 8/22/07

MikeM said: 'My statements from 8/20 seem to stand.'

If you are referring to your story about the supposed two accounts of creation I would say your comments are 'firmly'planted upon quicksand. This old cannard, popular with God haters was answered long ago. Even I can answer that one see below on 20th/8.

Or see the site creationontheweb dot com for a complete answer.
---Warwick on 8/22/07

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1) Why is it that every time someone disagrees with an evolutionists the smartest thing they always say - is that your stupid for not believing a buch of atheist scientist. There are plenty of intelligent scietist who do NOT believe in evolution.
---Andrea on 8/21/07

2) Explain how something can come from nothing in contradiction to the first law of thermodynamics.

What is the evidence that the universe increased in its order and complexity after the big bang in contradiction to the second law of thermodynamics.

What specific evidence supports the claim of a natural origin of life? (life from non-life in contradiction to the law of biogenesis)
---Andrea on 8/21/07

The NRSV clearly denotes each day as being separate"and there was evening and there was morning and God said it was good."Light was created on the first dayand light was separated from the dark.
---Emcee on 8/21/07

Warwick, none of what God says is a lie. He wanted for us to rest for one of our days, just as He rested, for our example, on one of His days. Where in the Bible does it say that the earth was formed and spinning when the sun was created? At first it was without form was then separated into the sun and itself leaving darkness on the other side of it - but there is no indication that it was revolving at all, let alone at our current 24 hour cycle.
---lorra8574 on 8/21/07

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Warwick, the point of the generations was to show the generations, not mark time for us, other than perhaps to show that there was a passage of time.

And there are differences between Genesis Chapter 1 and Chapter 2, but nothing that worries me. In C1 God created them, male and female, and gave to them the varous plants that apparently already existed, but in C2, God created Adam first and at the same time the plants were raised, and later Eve was created from Adam.
---lorra8574 on 8/21/07

Sherry-to use the word evolution is rather meaningless unless you define 'evolution' as the word appears to have many meanings.

Some claim speciation is evolution!

Volvo talk about the evolution of their car but this use of evolution has nothing to do with the evolutionary idea which in direct contradiction of Scripture says that life evolved from non-life to microbe to man over billions of years without intelligent input.

Which evolution are you talking about?
---Warwick on 8/21/07

Mark-Genesis 1:3 God says let there be light then vs 5 says..the evening & the morning were the first day. All we need for a day is a spinning earth & a light source. If God says there was light & further this light brought about evening & morning on what basis do we reject this plain language?

Isn't God powerful enough to light the earth without the sun for a few days?

I wonder if some actually read the Bible or satisfy themselves by reading anti-Biblical books?
---Warwick on 8/21/07

evolution is not from satan.It's from science, same as electricity, and the combustion engine is. There is no contradiction between the bible and evolution perse, unless you're a fundie literalist, in which case, evolution is the least of your troubles.
---Sherry on 8/21/07

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My statements from 8/20 seem to stand.
---MikeM on 8/21/07


Just what is a "morning", "evening", and "day"?
The position of the sun above a rotating earth?

If you assume that Genesis interprets this literally as we do, this is problematic, because the heavens and earth were not even separate until the end of the second day. So what happened on the first day, before there even WAS a sun?
---Mark on 8/21/07

greetings.I am humored to read below"college is a din of iniquity".
mikeM,Knowing your intrests in many subjects at a college level and professionally working at them ,my question for you is have you examined the urantia book and it's relation to primitive man, a segment of your type of work?
---earl on 8/21/07


I see your point, God's word is very clear on how creation begain. Evolution is a contradiction to God's Word. Evolution is from Satan. However, I must ask those who choose to believe the evolution theory over the truth of God's creation frame, what makes you think that you can change the beginning?

You will never be able to undo God's Word, God's Word will be here even after your body has been dead and buried.
---Marcia on 8/21/07

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MikeM - Homo rudolfensis
2007, a team led by Timothy Bromage, an anthropologist at New York University, reconstructed the skull of KNM-ER 1470. The new construction looks very apish and the cranial capacity based on the new construction is downsized from 752 cubic centimeters to about 526 cc. Bromage said his teams reconstruction includes bio principles not known at the time of the discovery, which state that a mammals eyes, ears and mouth must be in precise relationships relative to one another
---Andrea on 8/20/07

MikeM Genesis 1 is a chronological explanation of God's creative week, day by day, beginning to end. Genesis 2 focuses upon certain aspects of creation-man centred. It does not attempt to be an alternative creation story.

In Mark ch.10: 6-8 Jesus quotes from Genesis 1:27 & 2:24 , in one sentence with no hint of there being any contradiction.

Who do I trust -God or man? easy choice.
---Warwick on 8/20/07

Creation story 1.
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky
3: Plants
4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
5: whales), fish, birds, land animals,
6: Humans
Note there are "days", "evenings", and "mornings" before
the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim", which
is a plural.
---MikeM on 8/20/07

There are two orders of events given which are contradictory. The earlier version appears in Genesis 1:1 2:3 key items follow this order of creation:

marine animals, birds,
land animals,
man and woman together- Genesis 1:20 27).
The second account begins with Genesis 2:4 wherein key items of creation appear in this order man plants, and, when no "help meet for him" is found, woman (Genesis 2:7,)
---MikeM on 8/20/07

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Lorra God said work 6-days & rest one (10 Commandments), having already defined what a day accompanied by a number means-24hrs. If we cannot know what a creation day is then we cannot know what any day is or what a week is. If I said see you in 5days would you ask how long are the days? Surely not.

I have already carefully explained the three meanings of the word day & none is a thousand or a million years.
---Warwick on 8/20/07

If God didnt intend to give us a time line of creation why did He give such detailed genealogies? If you are correct they are either wrong or a pointless exercise.

It is my belief those who reject the straight-forward meaning of days or the age of the earth do so for non-Biblical reasons having accepted worldly ideas then re-interpreting Gods Word through the eyes of fallible sinful man who does not know.

Who will you follow man or God? Easy choice.
---Warwick on 8/20/07

Lorra what part of Scripture says other than God created Adam from the dust of the earth? Where is there even a hint of long-ages primordial ooze, pre-human to human evolution? Do you think God was unable to write the truth or maybe too dishonest to write how it actually happened?

God has limitations, He always tells the truth. If you are correct he has given a detailed blow by blow description of creation, but it is a lie?
---Warwick on 8/20/07

This is another reason for home schooling. No way would I allow my children to learn the lie of evolution. The Bible tells us what we need to know about science. College is a din of iniquity. These defenders of the lie or compromisers breed in colleges and no real Christian would support their child in such an institution. For my teens its- Bible college or no college!
---John on 8/20/07

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Warwick, the Bible also says that time is different for God than it is for man. A day is like a thousand years and vice versa. And for the Jews, a "thousand" may be literal was also means a very large number - could be millions or billions. We also know that before the flood, humans lived longer, some nearly a thousand years and since some produced children in their old age, it stands to reason that the typical Creationist view WRT time limitations does not jive with the scriptures.
---lorra8574 on 8/20/07

Warwick, I do not know how old our world is, but I also do not think that the point of the scriptures is to convey that knowledge - it is not relevant to the message. There are two conflicting versions of creation in the Bible, but the Jews were not concerned because they understood that each revelation had a purpose and message for us that was conveyed but not limited by the details.
---lorra8574 on 8/20/07

Warwick, I believe that Adam and Eve were actual human beings. The Question is did God really make Adam instantly from literal mud or gradually from what we might call primordial ooze? And could the early humans possibly understand such a thing if God had even tried to inspire such a description? God is an eternal being with all the time in the universe to accomplish His goals. God does not have limitations, but we do.
---lorra8574 on 8/20/07

When posting questions or responses on beliefs that you do not personally hold or understand do not attack or use negatives. Instead approach it with respect for the individuals that holds that belief and post your response/question as such. Doing so will keep this blog more Christian instead of anti-any religion that the poster does not believe in.
---Francis on 8/20/07

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Fundamentalist reject "evidential" science in favor of "presuppositionalism" The Bible, literalist, face value, is a priori true, therefore evolution is ipso facto false. evidence is irrelevant. "Faith is the evidence of things not seen Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God" (Hebrews 11) Fundamentalist accumulating interpreting evidence to favor fundamentalist creation engaged in a superfluous endeavor that is inimical to faith.
---MikeM on 8/20/07

There is esoteric interpretation, then isoteric, I am accused of one. Are Exodus 22:18, Deuteronomy 18:10,-to be taken at face value as MOST protestants have done throughout history? Pick and choose?

As for me, Cambrian explosion and 100 other objective evidences point to the establishment of life on earth by a, no the greater power, does that make me a creationist? But as I have been told, that term is coined, reserved only for fundamentalist and their subjective absolutes passed off as science.
---MikeM on 8/20/07

Mike, excellent posts. I agree fully that fundamentalists are only literal when it suits them. It has never suited them to accept that Jesus gave no exceptions for divorce. Yet all protestant sects allow it. But I do enjoy how they twist fossils, carbon dating, etc. Its a hoot mostly.
---Sherry on 8/20/07


"In my opinion Marx, and anything resulting from him is the mst evil, vile dogma ever created by the mind of man. Body counts along prove this again and again, yes, he is the opposite end of the spectrum".

I totally agree!!
---Marcia on 8/20/07

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MikeM again I ask: Where do you find support for microbe to man evolution in Scripture? Please be specific.

I also asked you about the Christian fundamentalist Scientist Dr Harwood who is involved in satellite design & placement. How does he fit into your straw-man looney -tune anti-scientific mould?
---Warwick on 8/20/07

Most Christians I know dont take Scripture literally but take it at face value unless theres good reason not to do so. Someone writes- my mother had a pink fit or raining cats & dogs. I dont have any trouble understanding these are sayings with no fits or falling mammals involved.

But God said the evening & the morning were the first day. What Biblical or grammatical clue is there here that this is not to be taken at face value? .
---Warwick on 8/20/07

As a fundamentalist, Ken Hovind claims all of the various fossil groups of humans are the result of arcane, sinful breeding experiments between godless heathens and various apes before The Flood. Now should that be taught as science? Before being accused of mine quoting, or straw man argument, remember, He WAS one of the most esteemed creationist. The issue is less microbes to man, but more pedantic nonsense to animated insanity.
---MikeM on 8/19/07

1.Man was created from the dust of the earth. In my translation this refers to red clay as used in pottery. This metaphor is clearly repeated in Job.
---MikeM on 8/19/07

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2.Specifics of creation are less relevant than that the Bible illustrates God created the earth. Fundamentalism, not the Bible stands or falls on literalism. Literalism, as in 10,000 years is always an arbretary form of interpretation. One must have faith that God did it and be less concerned about capricious pedantic contrivances-creationist systemlogies designed to mollify fears of secular science. Fundamentalist are literalist when it suits their intentions, and that they dismiss it when it does not.
---MikeM on 8/19/07

Robyn, the real question is will you respond. You disposition is much like those I was raised around, that you must along with your coat and hat check in your brains at the front door of church. Baloney, God did not endow us with a wonderful mind and then ask us to forgo its use. He works through our minds. What fence am I sitting on? Did God, the devil, or Robyn create this fence? Tell me how I am confused. Thou shalt not think is not a commandment. Will you respond? I got bets on this.
---MikeM on 8/19/07

In my opinion Marx, and anything resulting from him is the mst evil, vile dogma ever created by the mind of man. Body counts along prove this again and again, yes, he is the opposite end of the spectrum.
---MikeM on 8/19/07

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