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Is The Bible Our Authority

If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of christian truth? Why does the Bible itself say that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth? ( 1 tim 3:15)

Moderator - 1. Yes. 2. Because the Church follows the Bible.

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 ---ruben on 5/15/06
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David: "It says that it is "inspired by God" and "useful..."

The words of God has power. Hebrew4:12
"...thou hast known the holy scripture."2Tim3:15-17

All scripture IS God's word?

To develop a relationship with God, a person must know about Him. To know Him is through the reading (or listening) to the word of God. The Bible is God's resume, His relationship between Him and His people. It's the same real relationship you want to have with Him.
---Steveng on 7/24/07


Hi David, nice to see you back, will be on the polygamy blog again? Meet you there.
---Lori on 7/24/07


Not particularly, Steveng.
No, not really.
---Simon on 7/24/07


Where does the Bible ever say that it is "the truth"? It merely says that it is "inspired by God" and "useful". It quotes Jesus as saying "I am...the truth". And the Bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, not the Bible. Let me encourage you to find a personal relationship with God, because Christianity was never meant to be a mere academic subject.
---David on 7/24/07


Throw away your Bibles!

Did I catch your attention? How many years will it take to completely memorize the Scriptures and depend upon th Holy Spirit for guidance? How many years will it take you to be hearers and readers of Scriptures and trust the Holy Spirit to guide you to become doers? How many years did the apostles learn about the Kingdom of God and how to get there and was told to go out into the world without script? How many years to develop a true intimate relationship with God?
---Steveng on 7/23/07




I am I,
You are correct...its not the bible, its our understanding of scripture that can be faulty.
We need the Spirit...amen
---duane on 7/23/07


1/Duane,

How do we know what it means? INTERPRETION! Who is doing the interpreting? Each of us. You correctly pointed out a lack of consensus on the final authority of the bible because of confusion on whose INTERPRETATION is correct. Since the bible is the Word of God, as Lisa points out, and Scripture says that Gods Word is final and correct, then the confusion must be in the INTERPRETATION of the person reading the bible. This same logic applies throughout
---I_AM_I on 7/23/07


duane is correct. There should be no confusion in understanding the Bible if God is helping you. Sometimes you may not understand a scripture at one particular time but the next time, lights goes off all around you. Bingo I got it. It is exciting.++
---catherine on 7/23/07


"My Fathers HOUSE, is a house of prayer ,You have made it a den of thieves".This edifice which we call church is a meeting place where we pray,worship the one & true & ONLY God,the Blessed Trinity Father Son & Holy Spirit.Jesus calls it MY CHURCH matt16:17-19, if others choose to worship God in the manner they prescribe, so be it, the judgement lies with The AUTHOR & Creator of this universe.His word,will, will be done.
---Emcee on 7/23/07


If the bible were the final authority, then we would have no confusion. Its not what we read, its what it means.
We are led by the Spirit. HE is our teacher.
---duane on 7/23/07




It is the Living Bible the infallible word of God. A Holy Book. The only Book in the world that is written by God.
---Lisa on 7/23/07


You are right in the ball park, moderator. The church itself is the pillar and ground of truth the church holds forth the scripture and the doctrine of Christ. Who would have thought the world, which lay in wickedness, would believe in the Son of God, would take Him to be their Saviour who was Himself crucified at Jerusalem? He who was manifest in flesh was God, REALLY AND TRULY GOD.>>>>I tell you, those people that crucified Him ,now wishes they had known. The same of today.++
---catherine on 7/23/07


John T, did you forget about the New Testament where they describe bishops, presbyters and deacons? And the gatherings where the epistles were read aloud to the congregants? For example Col. 4:16 and 1 Thess. 5:27. We were institutionalised long before Constantine, although we did gain fancy new dresses for our clergy during that era.
---lorra8574 on 7/22/07


Steveng::We are called to be Perfect. Yes it is tough,but with so many distractions we have to accomplish this .There is no Gain without Pain. Jesus died on the cross for us,was that easy?.The way to heaven is a winding path & narrow is the gate, for few will find it.
---Emcee on 7/22/07


The Bible is God's Word. Nuf said. In addition it was written by several men of all walks of life, literate and not, throughout an extended period of time with, and feel free to try me on this, no contraditions.
---Amanda on 7/22/07


No man could have possibly written the Bible because it's too difficult to obey especially in today's world (where it used to be if you murdered a man you have sinned, now it's even if you think about it). No other religion is so tough on man.
---Steveng on 7/22/07


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Someone did not read the next book. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Remember Church is body of christians. Bible is the words of God. Churches job...preach the gospel. Where is the gospel? The words of God.
---BoDilly on 7/22/07


If the Bible is our sole authority then it would have to say that in the Bible. And it doesn't. The Scriptures are valued because their teaching is Apostolic. The Apostles are not valued because their teaching is Scriptural.
---augusta on 6/27/06


Just exactly how was it decided what would be in the Bible to start with so that the Church (functioning in all her fulness before one word of the NT was written down) could be based on it?
---Jack on 5/25/06


John T....I apologize if I was not clear. What I meant to present was that before there was a Bible, and before there was a Church, there was God. Therefore, God is the foundation of truth.
---Grace on 5/19/06


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NurseRobert:
Technically, you are correct. The OT existed in scrolls. However, the statement of the post does not address the truth in my previous post, and your insistence on "church" as the holder of truth has evolved past the original meaning of church, "called out ones"

The institutionalized church did not exist until Constantine, so your interpertation is anachronistic: out of time and place
---John_T on 5/19/06


I see where I Tim 3:15 says that we should know how to behave ourselves in the church of the living God, who is the pillar and ground (foundation) of the Truth.
God is this pillar of Truth. Paul said that there is no other foundation that man can lay except that which was laid which is Jesus Christ I Cor 3:11.
God is the foundation of truth not bricks and mortar.
The Church is where we serve the message.
---Elder on 5/18/06


The old testament existed as seperate documents, not a singular work, such as we have today. There was no "Bible" when this Letter to Timothy was written.

Moderator - Tell that to the Jews and they will disagree. The OT was completed 400 years before Christ.
---NurseRobert on 5/18/06


ruben - "Also half of you do not even believes each other doctrine,..." You would have a tough time finding 2 or more Roman Catholics that would agree on religious issues as well. Try interviewing those that have problems with Vatican II and the new mass.
---lee on 5/18/06


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NurseRobert: There were copies of the OT available in Jesus Time: he read from scrolls. All knew waht were in Dcripture because between Malachi,and the last OT prophet, John, there were 400 years of silence.

The NT, as we now know it was codified about 220. Like the OT, there were copies of the various letters written being copied and passed around.

The last NT book was written by John (96-125) and I actually held a copy of it (Chester Beatty Papyrus) in my hand.
---John_T on 5/18/06


:::sigh::: question: Moderator, then how do you explain the fact that when this particular letter was written (timothy) there was NO "bible"? orginal post: If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of christian truth? Why does the Bible itself say that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth? ( 1 tim 3:15) Moderator - 1. Yes. 2. Because the Church follows the Bible.

Moderator - The Old Testament existed and so did Jesus. Timothy even talks about his Jewish roots from his grandmother and mother.
---NurseRobert on 5/18/06


Grace:
Your "source for truth", the voice within you can be a pepperoni pizza, a demon or something else. The central theme is EXACTLY the way that Mormons test truth.

Jesus said, "Thy word is Truth..." and I am the way, the truth..." Therefore truth is objective; we can point to it. It is propositional; it tells right from wrong.

Your theory is subjective, and post modern: "Though our truths differ, they are equal because we sincerely believe them."
---John_T on 5/18/06


MOderator - It's the question in the blog and your initial repsonse. (If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of christian truth? Why does the Bible itself say that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth? ( 1 tim 3:15)
Moderator - 1. Yes. 2. Because the Church follows the Bible.)

Moderator - Now I don't have your question :) I need both at the same time to answer. Thanks.
---NurseRobert on 5/18/06


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I believe that the Bible provides insights.....however, the best spiritual guide is the voice within you. If you don't understand something, just ask God. The answer will be revealed if you ask in sincerity and openness. God wants to reveal Himself to his children, we have to ask. I see the Bible on a more symbolic level(vs. literalism), as Jesus taught, by providing examples or parables so that the people could understand. The foundation of truth rests within the Spirit of God.
---Grace on 5/18/06


Moderator, then how do you explain the fact that when this particular letter was written (timothy) there WAS no bible?

Moderator - Please quote me because I can't see the blog in this screen.
---NurseRobert on 5/18/06


("But the Bible is not clear on moral issues like abortion, contraceptives, eugenics, euthanasia,etc." ) A lot of you claims that the Bible is clear on these issues, but no scriptures to support your theory. Also half of you do not even believes each other doctrine, some of you believe in infant baptism, water baptism, rapture theory and OSAS etc.. etc..The bible to me is more clear on these issues, but according to your beliefs you can not agree.
---ruben on 5/18/06


"But the Bible is not clear on moral issues like abortion, contraceptives, eugenics, euthanasia,etc."

True of those that do not know the Author of the Bible for the "god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Cor. 4:4)
---lee on 5/18/06


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This question has been formed by a person who places their church(denomination) on an equal (or better) footing with the Bible.
---mima on 5/18/06


ruben, I ditto the Moderator. The Holy Bible is anti-abortion (the fetus is a living soul); pro-contraceptives (some people should not be bringing children into the world); anti-eugenics (gene manipulation is synthetic and tempting God); and anti-euthanasia (God is pro-life, pro-miracles and pro-healing).
---Eloy on 5/18/06


ruben - the Lord has given the church teachers to instruct us and at the same time we can go to the Teacher Himself and learn much. One does not have to rely on ones own interpretation.
---lee on 5/17/06


Lee-(If the Bible is the very words of God, what better source for doctrine & christian walk, can there be?) But the Bible is not clear on moral issues like abortion, contraceptives, eugenics, euthanasia,etc.

Moderator - My Bible is.
---ruben on 5/17/06


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philomena, that is a mistranslation. The Greek word in II Thessalonians 2:15; 3:6 is "Paradoseis", which means "Same Teaching", the word does not mean tradition.
---Eloy on 5/17/06


"Therefore, Word and Apostolic Tradition are both important and the foundation for Christian truth as passed down to us from the days of the Apostles."

Sounds good as long as tradition is not elevated to the level of Scripture itself.

There has to be some standard by which beliefs and practices can be judged and that standard given to us is the Scripture.
---lee on 5/16/06


If the Bible is the very words of God, what better source for doctrine & christian walk, can there be?

The institutionalized church has often been controlled by the state in appointing positions in the church; with those offices often brought & sold to the highest bidder.
---lee on 5/16/06


Of course, Jesus is the way and the TRUTH...

2 Thes 2:15 "So then, Brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." Therefore, Word and Apostolic Tradition are both important and the foundation for Christian truth as passed down to us from the days of the Apostles.
---Philomena on 5/16/06


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I think the church is an outgrowth of the bible ... the bible is its (the church's) foundation. For me, Jesus' words are the truth, the spiritual church, and the very heart of Christianity. Paul built upon that by establishing the physical church (a very necessary thing).
---JamesMark on 5/16/06


As long as the church is professing the foundation that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God, the only everlasting Savior and Mediator between God and man, and that Jesus alone was the perfect Lamb of God who was sent into the world to save sinners, then it reflects Christ which is the Rock and foundation of the truth. But if any church professes some other gospel, or some other Savior, or some other false Mediators, than it is the synagogue of Satan.
---Eloy on 5/16/06


Before I had the Holy spirit I had lots of Bibles that I didn't care to read. Before I recieved Jesus it was just another amazing story.

I HAVE TO argue by my own testimony that the Bible is not the "only" foundation and basis of Christian truth.

John 5:39-scriptures testify of Jesus but don't provide life
John 14:6-Jesus said the Spirit makes things known. (that's with or without scripture, apostles didn't have bibles)
1 John 2:27 The Spirit teaches all things.
---z-pha3394 on 5/16/06


Church not a building ,Christians are Church. As "Church" preached the Word they were/are the "pillar and foundation" (a support) of Christ's truth,passing on the Word, building the Body of Believers,the "Church" and teaches how to behave when come together. 1Tim3:15.House,Strongs 3624 family of God,Strongs Church 1577 united into one body; whole body of Christians throughout the earth. Revelations3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of my God,-.
---Darlene_1 on 5/16/06


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According to 2 Timothy 3:16 the Bible is the Christians ONLY piece of authority for Divine truth. While the church is important - it is only important as it adheres to the teachings of the Bible.
---WIVV on 5/16/06


(Moderator - 1. Yes. 2. Because the Church follows the Bible). If that is the case then, you must be a believer in the Old Testament only because the NT was written many years later. Besides nowhere in scripture does it say the church follow the Bible, Paul in 3:15 says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the Bible.

Moderator - Because the Church follows God's Word. God's Word is the authority not man.
---ruben on 5/16/06


AMEN, AMEN, bodilly, you are on target.
---shira on 5/16/06


Jack is right.The early Church was led by the Spirit. We are told to be too. It's only foundation was not the Bible. The Word of God is much more than what you see written.The early Church did fine without The N.T. in written form. The Spirit guided them into truth. I believe the Bible is the word of God but it doesn't say that the Bible is the only word of God.
---john on 5/16/06


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The church was functioning in all her fulness before one word of the NT was written.

True but that was during the apostolic period - when the apostles were still alive. And the message was rather simple; not complicated as we see in our denominations today. Howbeit, heresies were already starting to creep into the church even before the apostles died out.

The letters of the apostles were shared by the various churches and early instruction was the Didache.
---lee on 5/15/06


The church was functioning in all her fulness before one word of the NT was written.

It was the Church who decided what went into the Bible. (Or, what boils down to the same thing, the Church was the earthly instrument God used to show what should be in the Bible.)
---Jack on 5/15/06


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