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Are You Really Born-Again

Ask yourself this, "Am I really saved and really born-again? Am I really following the Commands of Christ and walking in his Holy Spirit? Are my words and actions reflecting Christ, whom I profess to love wholeheartedly?

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 ---Eloy on 5/17/06
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PART TWO:
Notice 7:24 through 8:2 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
---Bruce5656 on 2/26/08


I am amaze as to how they let you stay on line Eloy. You are rude and demeaning to others, you condemn them and never allow anyone to question your passages. You have done this for a long time and Christianet continues to keep you on line. You are a very bad example of what it is to be a Christian.
---karen on 6/15/06


loy
Could you be more specific? In what way am I a liar? Did I misqoute you?
---Bruce5656 on 6/7/06


Rebecca
The bible does not say that every person who gets saved has a demon cast out of them!

Jesus said told a parable of a demon leaving a man and bringing seven others back with him later.

He was saying that just like such a man would be worse off in the end, that generation's end would be worse than their begining.

Matthew 12:45 "Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."
---Bruce5656 on 6/7/06


God does not say he will erase your name from the book of life, he will "take away his part out of the book of life"
God does say that the names were written in the book of life "from the foundation of the world". If they were written so far in advance, then why would he need to erase them? He is most likely "taking away" rewards. It does say "part" not all. If your name is not already in the book of life, you were never born again and never will be.
---tofurabby on 6/7/06




Mt.12:44 says the man was found empty, it does not say saved. It does not say he was ever saved. Mark 3:27 "No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house." If the man was saved, then Christ would reside in him, would he not?
---tofurabby on 6/7/06


I agree with Eloy. A person can lose their Salvation. And to come back to God they have to be convicted of their sins and repent. Until they are convicted and repent, they won't go to heaven. When the spirit of God comes in a person, they are saved, but when his spirit leaves, evil spirits comes in making that person 7 times worse than before. God says in his word that your name can be erased from the book of life.
---Rebecca_D on 6/7/06


Eloy, Revelation 2:4,5 is not dealing with backsliden people. They are labouring so hard for the lord that they are forgetting to have a personal relationship with Christ. That is why he has "somewhat against thee" but is not condemning them. He wants them to get back to "do the first works" of having a personal relationship with Christ which is the most important thing. I think this is simply Christ telling them to get back to the basic fundamentals of their faith.
---tofurabby on 6/6/06


Yes Eloy, in Mt.12:43-45, vs 44 the man is empty, but it does not say the man was saved, Just that the evil spirit had left and returned with friends. Just cleaning up ones life without filling it with God leaves plenty of room for Satan to enter. He may have rid his life of sin, but failed to replace it with love for God and obedience to him. If empty, swept, and garnished meant that he were saved, there would have been no way for the evil spirit to dwell within.
---tofurabby on 6/6/06


I researched this subject ad infinitum. My brother led me to the Lord, baptized me in the Church of Christ. That doctrine held salvation could be lost. This disturbed me. I do not believe the NT, taken in it's entirety supports this. Noone can snatch us from His hand, including OURSELVES. I don't even think apostasy can. He put a deposit of the HS in me. He will not lose His deposit. You can be backslidden, and - as was said earlier - you will be taken home as if by fire, or be brought to repentance.
---Stacy_M on 6/5/06




..bruce, you bear false witness, accuse the brothers, and manifest bad fruit.
---Eloy on 6/4/06


PART ONE:
eloy,

"I was deceived into believing that God was the one responsible for destroying me, when in fact it was not God's doing but the enemy instead."

So did this deception come on you suddenly?
Or was it something that you gradually came to the "realization" of?
Are saying "The devil made me do it?"
---Bruce5656 on 6/3/06


PART TWO:
Even if you could blame him, was it not sin to listen to the deception, to yield to the temptation to turn your back on God? Do you not agree that no matter what the temptation, sin is always a choice? I Cor 10:13
---Bruce5656 on 6/3/06


PART THREE:
You have stated that the sin that draws one from God are sins of omission. Is this now another type of sin you refer to that can draw one from God? The sin of doubt? (What ever the source of the temptation?) Call it what you want - ommission, doubt etc - the bottom line is it is sin to turn your back on God, to reject Him.
---Bruce5656 on 6/3/06


PART FOUR:
Sin is sin. No matter how strong or how subtle the temptation, when the choice is made to yield, it is sin.

Your premise: A Christian cannot sin.

A Christian cannot backslide with out sinning (omission and doubting God are two such sins you have specified.) You have said so.
You, a Christian, did backslide by doubting God. You have said so.
---Bruce5656 on 6/3/06


PART FIVE:
Therefore your premise: A Christian cannot sin. Is false. You are proof. The only other logical (if unreasonable) explanation is the standard fall back position the OSAS use when one backslides, that you were not a Christian at all the first time.

eloy, it cannot be both ways.

Since you cannot backslide with out sin of some nature;
Either a Christian can sin and therefore can backslide
Or
A Christian cannot sin and therefore cannot backslide.
---Bruce5656 on 6/3/06


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..bruce, "So I told God and Jesus to get out of my life because life was too hard enough and I didn't need it any worse. So the Lord left me." That was not the sin of omission, nor the sin of backsliding, in fact it was not a sin at all, but a deception, I was deceived into believing that God was the one responsible for destroying me, when in fact it was not God's doing but the enemy instead.
---Eloy on 6/3/06


John T. does not bare false witness Eloy, you do. You need to sit down and write all you put down and with an open mind you will see all of your errors.
---lee_1 on 6/2/06


1V. all in all Eloy, you grasp passages and somehow put them together to make a point, and even when you do you are not reading the passage in its context but just pulling one out of the blue without regard to other passages that speak against what you stated. Not very good hermeneutics. Very bad interpretation coming from someone that is perfect.
---karen on 6/2/06


111. If you were born again when you were 20, isn't it possible that you were saved all the time but away from the Lord? That is only if you were saved to begin with the first time. Maybe you were one of those spoken in Scripture about that heard the word of God but did not really commit, the first time. If the Holy Spirit left you how could He talk to you the second time? You make too many mistakes with your theory and then tell John he speaks wrong, when you yourself is the one that is wrong.
---karena on 6/2/06


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Stacy, on the contrary, the prodigal son DID REPENT, return, else he would not be able to receive his fathers love and still be separated from him. It was only after his repentance that he could be restored, and not before. "I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in front of you, and am no more worthy to be called your son: make me as one of your hired servants." So he arose and did jujst that, and the Father gladly received him back.
---Eloy on 6/2/06


PART ONE:
eloy,
"I do not make this kind of decision, so you could ask a person who commits this sin of omission in order to find out whether or not they did it by a snap decision."

But eloy, you have made this very decision.

5/31/06
"So I told God and Jesus to get out of my life because life was too hard enough and I didn't need it any worse. So the Lord left me."
---Bruce5656 on 6/2/06


PART TWO:
So I am asking you. How did that happen, was it a snap decision? Did you go to bed one night a Christian and wake up the next day and tell God it was over between you?

If it were a snap decision, would that decision not be a sin?
---Bruce5656 on 6/2/06


PART THREE:
If not a snap decision, were you guilty of sins of omission. (neglecting to serve the Lord, or doing nothing at all for the Lord, although this may not be active law-breaking yet it's still "passive" sin, or what is called the "sin of omission.")

In either case, you as a Christian, sinned.
---Bruce5656 on 6/2/06


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11. Eloy, by your own statements to emg. you stated, "over 8 years later I was upon my death bed and the Holy Spirit told me I needed to ask the Lord to come back into my heart and life." Here you contradict yourself again when you make a statement like that. Since you believe in free will, why didn't you call the Holy Spirit to come? Instead you say He spoke to you and told you what you had to do. Now you made a choice but only because the Holy Spirit was convicting you.
---karen on 6/2/06


Eloy;
What about the Prodigal Son? What do you say about that? If you focus on what is written about the Father's position, He continued to watch for the son's return. "While he was yet a long way off - He ran to him" The Father did not require (or even wait to listen to)a REPENTANCE from His son. This parable is about what you make mention: "backslidden" Christians. The Holy Spirit convicts them at some point and they return to the Father because SIN can not REIGN in them.
---Stacy on 6/2/06


Eloy, you have taken (Matthew 12:43-45) another passage and misterpret it. "When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, (Here an unclean spirit was in a man, "remember Christian cannot be possessed by an unclean spirit," only the lost can be possess) We can be tempted but not possess.
---karena on 6/2/06


..bruce, I do not make this kind of decision, so you could ask a person who commits this sin of omission in order to find out whether or not they did it by a snap decision. My sayings may seem like riddles to you, but in fact they are the truth. BTW I do not notice any coorelation between the hypothesis of "which came first the chicken or the egg," and the doctrine of the sin of no works.
---Eloy on 6/2/06


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tofurabby, Please read what the Lord dictates to the church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:4,5.
---Eloy on 6/2/06


tofurabby, Mt.12:43-45, in vs 44 it says his house is empty because the unclean spirit has gone out, and his house is swept clean and in right order. But in vs 45 we see that because he wanted sin, he went and brought 7 other spirits more wicked than himself, and so the end of that man is worse than the first. The the scriptures I quoted are all relevant and apply to Christians who leave their first love, and go back into sin again from which they were saved from.
---Eloy on 6/2/06


john t, bears false witness, is an accuser of the brothers, takes verses out of context and corrupts and misapplies scripture, bears bad fruit, and therefore he is a manifested sinner, and unsaved.
---Eloy on 6/2/06


Eloy:

If you can lose your salvation and regain it again - it would follow that you could lose it yet again as well ( ? ) So, depending on whether or not you had unrepentant sin in your heart(lust, greed, envy, pride, unforgiveness) and you were to die, your fate would be sealed?

Heaven or hell based on what YOU did?
Rather than what CHRIST DID? "For it is by GRACE you have been saved, ... "
---Stacy on 6/2/06


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Sin of not forgiving Matthew 6:14-15, and pride. Proverbs 8:13, 1John 1:16
The two most important commandments are love God and love others Matthew 22:37-40.
Epistle of 1John was written to Christians. He who is in darkness is someone who says he loves God, but hates his brother 1John 9-11 \ 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
---Ulrika on 6/1/06


To Bruce5656, Sorry Bruce I misread. We are in agreement.
---Thomas_D. on 6/1/06


Eloy wrote 5/31 " Christian can backslide and lose their salvation..."

Does not square with Isaiah 49:16 Behold, I have graven [tattooed] thee upon the palms of my hands...

Nor with John 17:9 I pray for them:... but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Nor Ephesians 1:13 ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
---John_T on 6/1/06


Eloy wrote 5/31 " Christian can backslide and lose their salvation, just as a spouse divorces..."

Does not square with John 10:28and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Fathers hand.
---John_T on 6/1/06


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Eloy,
(re: Matthew 12:43-44) I cant find where this scripture says the man is saved, actually it says he is found empty. Shouldnt he be found with Jesus as the tenant if he was saved?
(re: II Peter 2:20-22) The whole chapter is referring to those following the false teachers and the specific verses you mentioned refer to those who learn the truth about Christ, but still choose not to follow.
The others you mentioned are OT situations under the law which was removed by Christ's sacrifice.
---tofurabby on 6/1/06


Thomas D,
What did I ever say to make you think that? There are two posts below from me to tofurabby on 5/31/06. Notice the last line in the one highest up on the page. "We are with out excuse when we sin.
---Bruce5656 on 6/1/06


eloy,
""neglecting to serve the Lord, or doing nothing at all for the Lord... "passive" sin, or what is called the "sin of omission." "

So this is a snap decision a person makes? One day they wake up and say, "Today I will neglect to serve the Lord and doing nothing at all for the Lord." Would that decision its self not be a sin?

This sounds like a riddle not unlike; Which comes first the chicken or the egg?
---Bruce5656 on 6/1/06


lula, The Jew claimed to be God's faithful, but according to Psalm 14 and 53 there was none righteous. For the fool says that there is no God, and they live in sin. This is the context of "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." And notice that it is past tense "sinned", and not "sin". Christ did not die in vain. When a sinner repents and receives Christ's atonement, they no longer have sin and are sinners, instead they are become saints and are well-doers.
---Eloy on 6/1/06


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Bruce5656, Do you not believe a christian can sin? Christians are not always free from sin. You need to read Paul's teachings. and if you sin you have an advocate with the Father
---Thomas_D. on 6/1/06


willow, correction, the reference is Matthew 12:43-45, not 12:43-44. Please read Ezekiel 18:24-32; 33:12-20; Matthew 12:43-45; Luke 11:24-26; II Peter 2:20-22.
---Eloy on 6/1/06


I already stated that every single sanctified Christian is perfect and righteous even as Christ himself is perfect and righteous. But you will believe whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 6/1/06


know the scriptures, in both the O.T. and in the N.T. speak of backsliding and losing your salvation. Ezekiel 18:24-32; 33:12-20; Matthew 12:43-44; Luke 11:24-26; II Peter 2:20-22.
---Eloy on 6/1/06


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ulrika, you misapply the scripture, this passage is speaking only of liars and not the saints, the passage starts with verse 6: "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth." You see many hypocrites who say they are Christian, but they live in sin, they are liars, and do not tell the truth.
---Eloy on 6/1/06


..bruce, no, because once a Christian decides to no longer serve the Lord, they also are no longer Christian.
---Eloy on 6/1/06


I dont think you can lose salvation... if you leave Christ to return to a life of sin, then I doubt your heart was in it the first time and you werent saved to begin with. -Chris
---tofurabby on 6/1/06


eloy
At the risk of sounding like I want to start an argument, I ask you.

Since, as you have pointed out;

"neglecting to serve the Lord, or doing nothing at all for the Lord, although this may not be active law-breaking yet it's still "passive" sin, or what is called the "sin of omission." "

Then it is true that a Christian can sin?
---Bruce5656 on 6/1/06


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Eloy, 1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins,he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
---Ulrika on 6/1/06


eloy
are you stating you can lose your salvation?
please back up your answers with the Word (in of course proper context)
---willow on 6/1/06


2. As we all can see you make a lot of mistakes on your doctines and the way of thinking and answering to others. You even mention now you have been saved twice, which is just another. For how many times can you be saved? Ten twenty, how about if you struggle again? Will you say to the Lord to get away? Just remember, no one, and I mean no one is perfect.
---karena on 5/31/06


Eloy, let me say as your sister that I never doubt your salvation. Not one time. I know you have God in your heart. There is no question about that. I know I am not God so I really don't know as fact but I have no problem with that and I don't think anyone here does either. It is the doctrines that has us going. And, you don't allow anyone to speak against you so that just adds more to the answers. You see Eloy, there is many great people on line that know the facts, that study just as hard as you.
---karen on 5/31/06


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John3:16 says it all.Death of a spouse ,a child or other tradgedy can cause doubt.Some are more susceptable to setbacks than others.The ordained and the most devout,only God can understand.Prayer and love strenghtens all,God is always there in scripture,in Christ and the Holy spirit...All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God! lulac3895
---lula on 5/31/06


John3:16 says it all.Death of a spouse ,a child or other tradgedy can cause doubt.Some are more susceptable to setbacks than others.The ordained and the most devout,only God can understand.Prayer and love strenghtens all,God is always there in scripture,in Christ and the Holy spirit...All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God! lulac3895
---lula on 5/31/06


Ulrika, Saved means, saved from sin and converted to the righteousness of Christ. No, a backslider is not saved, but is fallen from salvation. There are no backsliders at all saved, you cannot be backslidden and sanctified, you cannot be in sin and in Christ too. But if the backslider returns to the Lord they can be saved, else they are not saved and they are lost in sin.
---Eloy on 5/31/06


..bruce, yes technically, neglecting to serve the Lord, or doing nothing at all for the Lord, although this may not be active law-breaking yet it's still "passive" sin, or what is called the "sin of omission." In God's eyes either one is actively serving Christ and righteousness, or else condemned; either we will serve Christ or serve sin, but noone cannot not serve.
---Eloy on 5/31/06


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emg, I got saved at 23. 10 years later Satan was destroying my life and had me believe God was responsible. So I told God and Jesus to get out of my life because life was too hard enough and I didn't need it any worse. So the Lord left me. Over 8 years later I was upon my death bed and the Holy Spirit told me I needed to ask the Lord to come back into my heart and life. So I said the sinner's prayer on Sunday Mar 4, 2001, and he saved me all over again, and also he healed me of all of my fatal diseases.
---Eloy on 5/31/06


Isn't a back slidden Christian one who lives in sin (goes the way of the world)? That person is still saved. God will kill the person's body, but save the soul. That is what I believe these verses to mean. 1Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved: yet so as by fire. 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
---Ulrika on 5/31/06


PART ONE:
tofurabby,

Yes, but the difference between 7:17-24 and v.25 "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." is, now he has been set free from the obligation to sin expressed in v.20 and while the tendency for the flesh to sin is still present v. 25, it is now possible to live after the Spirit and not the flesh. Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
---Bruce5656 on 5/31/06


PART TWO:
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Paul talks about our personal responsibility to make the right choices (as in 6:12-13, 8:12,13, 13:14) and nurture the new man and put down the old etc. cf. I Cor 10:13. We are with out excuse when we sin.
---Bruce5656 on 5/31/06


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Just Browsing:-> I wonder where the saying originated "To err (sin) is human to forgive is Divine."This teaches us we are not perfect as humans only GOD is; hence Jesus's admonition" be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect"
-to obtain salvation.
---Impartial_Bystander on 5/31/06


eloy,
"To backslide without sinning would be to neglect serving the Lord, and thus grow cold and distant and eventually completely estranged from him.

This is not sin?
Does it not seperate one from God?

Here is what the Bible says:
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
---Bruce5656 on 5/31/06


Eloy where did the need to be saved a second time come from if you did not sin and lose your salvation. You say you have never sinned since becoming a Christian so how can you be twice saved. What extra things were you saved from the second time that made the first time not sufficient. I personally believe that Christians do SIN, without losing their salvation but I'm using your strange logic here to try to get some clarity.
---emg on 5/31/06


-Bruce, I am not sure that it is a pre-redeemed Paul. "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Seems to me he has been born again, but finds himself sinning sometimes, but finds shame in it and feels wretched. He is bouncing back and forth between what he knows is good and not good. Thankful for salvation through Christ which took away the condemnation and now he walks not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. He feels convictions for his sin.
---tofurabby on 5/31/06


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1V, it does seem like we are ganging up on Eloy but we as a whole don't want to cut him down, but only to bring him to see his mistakes in Scripture. And since Scripture is the most important thing for all of us, we should all want to learn the truth as we grow in the Christian faith. Many new beginners will take a false road, when they take their eyes away from God.
---karena on 5/31/06


111. I totally believe he is right on many statements like, "we should not sin anymore because we belong to Christ" We should not have sin control us, and many more, but to suggest against Scripture that Christians are without sin, when Passages teach that if we say we have no sin, we call God a liar" then something is wrong with his interpretation of Gods word.
---karen on 5/31/06


11. yet if he is without sin and he does sin, he is of the devil. If he has been glorified already, (the Christian) the work of Christ would already be complete with that indiviual. If he stayed in this sinful world he would be the exact duplicate of Christ already. Yet able to sin again because he can backslide and belong to the devil again and again, yet he is without sin. Very confusing concept he has but if you say anything against his concept you are in sin for questioning his concept.
---karen on 5/31/06


I believe the problem with Eloy's answers is that he has to use both concepts in order to answer many times. But what he does in contradict something else he has said already. Example, He states that spirit is at war agianst the flesh. Which would say that the flesh is still in sin and the spirit doesn't want the flesh to sin so there is a war. Admitting sin still recites in the believer. And on another blogs he states a Christian is without sin. Holy as God is holy and cannot sin.
---karen on 5/31/06


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shira, Real Born-again Christians do not sin everyday, but nonchristians do. "Whosoever stays in him sins not. Whosoever is born of God does not sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Please read I John 3:6-10.
---Eloy on 5/31/06


emg, part 1: I am born-again twice. A Christian can backslide and lose their salvation, just as a spouse divorces their marriage partner and loses their union, but if you really love your partner then you will never cheat nor backslide on them, instead always aim to please them and always remain faithful.
---Eloy on 5/31/06


pt 2: God has no pleasure in those who backslide into perdition. When you truly ask forgiveness, then God will forgive, but he does not forgive anyone who refuses to repent or to stop sinning. To backslide without sinning would be to neglect serving the Lord, and thus grow cold and distant and eventually completely estranged from him.
---Eloy on 5/31/06


Sorry I took the stance of Eloys theory because it was so conflicting with all the writings 1John1:8 & 10,Pauls conflict with sin & even Eloys theory of backslidden, clearly shows that what Jesus said is true I came to save sinners we should not be ready to cast that first stone.Jesus speaks of LOVE dissension fosters hate & misunderstanding.Christianet was meant to create brother hood I think.
---Impartial_Bystander on 5/31/06


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Sorry I took the stance of Eloys theory because it was so conflicting with all the writings 1John1:8 & 10,Pauls conflict with sin & even Eloys theory of backslidden, clearly shows that what Jesus said is true I came to save sinners we should not be ready to cast that first stone.Jesus speaks of LOVE dissension fosters hate & misunderstanding.Christianet was meant to create brother hood I think.
---Impartial_Bystander on 5/31/06


Yes I am really born-again. One of the ways I know this to be true, is that my desires now are totally different than before I got saved. I now hate sinful things, my taste for things like music has totally changed --- I now want the things of the Lord.
---Helen_5378 on 5/31/06


PART ONE:
tofurabby,

While I agree with your premise, using Romans 7:14-25 to make your point is innappropriate as this is Paul's description of his pre-redeemed life - enslaved to the "law of sin and death." You only get half the story if you leave off reading in v.25
---Bruce5656 on 5/31/06


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