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Was Mary Always A Virgin

Why does the Catholic Church teach Mary was a virgin all her life? When in fact it's written in scripture she had children after Jesus.

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Helen (& Augusta) # 2 Now Augusta's comments are different, and do seem to be blasphemous, reducing Jesus to an "add-on" to trust and reliance on Mary.
It has given me a new insight into the enthusiasm that some Catholics have for putting Mary so high, whilst seeming to ignore Jesus
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/28/08


Mary Louise ::I think Alan meant Limbo Not Purgatory.Many christians think Limbo & Purgaroty are the same!!Limbo is I believe Non existant following Christ's resurrection.The Apostles creed says "He descended to the dead".This was Limbo.
---Emcee on 6/17/07


We are instructed, as the elect, to pray only to the Father through the Son in the power of His Holy Spirit. To pray to any man or woman born in the flesh and of the flesh is in direct violation to the word of God as commanded by the Lord Christ Jesus. He is the only Lord and Savior and He is the only intercessor.
---Ryan on 6/17/07


[I thought that the Pope has stated that Purgatory does not exist? -alan8869_of_UK]

I'm not sure "which" Pope you are referring to, but the Dogma of Purgatory is a required belief of all persons of the Roman Catholic Faith. Since defining the dogma, you won't find any Pope claiming the opposite.
---MaryLouise on 8/23/06


[Praying for the dead. . . pointless Crystal]

2Macc12:44:
"For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin." [Always in Sacred Scripture - Luther removed from Protestant versions]
---MaryLouise on 8/23/06




Augusta ... I thought that the Pope has stated that Purgatory does not exist?
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/23/06


Alan of UK;Like you say arguementation is useless Even in spite of Facts acclaimed by living People.If dead is Dead then how can She appear, your acknowledgement of this fact puts you at a disadvantage as you would then have to Believe In Marys Assumption.which is contrary to your belief & yet acclaimed by Millions who have seen spoken & she has left Messages.I said you were a fair Man but your determined denial in the face of Facts gives rise to whether I misjudged you.
---Emcee on 8/22/06


Helen: "You yourself, in answer to my question "where are you going when you die?", said Purgatory. That is where all catholics think they are getting a second chance."

Helen, only the saved go to purgatory. Why would the saved need a second chance?
---augusta on 8/22/06


Alan: "But yo may wish to answer on the other aspects"

I would but I'm sure it would be equally futile. ;o
---augusta on 8/22/06


Alan: "I tried that, and nothing happened. I even switched off the computer & on again, and the item was still on the list, but not on the main blog."

OK, but just to clarify, Alan, I meant refresh the list page(?), the one you access by clicking on the red "Blogs" button at the top, NOT the main blog that you can't see it on. I have to refresh it atleast 8-12 times to get all the top blogs to show up. Try that next time & see if it fixes it. Good luck!
---augusta on 8/22/06




Augusta - To elaborate a bit, "one more chance" to have your sins forgiven. Purgatory does not exist, and Jesus Christ is the only One Who can forgive sin. Jesus paid the price for sin on the Cross with His own death.
---Helen_5378 on 8/22/06


Augusta - You yourself, in answer to my question "where are you going when you die?", said Purgatory. That is where all catholics think they are getting a second chance. Only problem with that is that it does not exist; God has not and is not about to make it (purgatory).
---Helen_5378 on 8/22/06


Augusta - My goodness what next? Are you now trying to say that we are dead so as to make it seem more likely that they (Mary, etc.) are alive? Nothing you say makes any Biblical sense.
---Helen_5378 on 8/22/06


Augusta ""There is clearly no way we can have a discussion about how you can go for comfort to a woman who is dead."
I guess if you consider them dead you couldn't. I believe they are not only alive but even more alive than we"
I really felt we should not pursue this aspect, which has been done to death. Further argument would not help.
But yo may wish to answer on the other aspects.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/22/06


Augusta "Alan, I've noticed this happening as well, and I discovered if I refresh the page repeatedly they will show up"
I tried that, and nothing happened. I even switched off the computer & on again, and the item was still on the list, but not on the main blog.
Mystery!!!
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/22/06


Helen: "Emcee - Once you are dead, that is it -- over; finished; no more chances"

Helen, who said we got more than one chance? What do you mean by that?
---augusta on 8/22/06


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Alan: "Augusta ... I did read your blog, and it seemed that your reference to Jesus was very much an afterthought. If I mistook that, I am sorry."
No problem, Alan, I figured you misunderstood my post.
"There is clearly no way we can have a discussion about how you can go for comfort to a woman who is dead."
I guess if you consider them dead you couldn't. I believe they are not only alive but even more alive than we are.
---augusta on 8/21/06


Alan: "Emcee ... I have have found it now, but at the time I posted my query, it had been listed for several hours, without being published."
Alan, I've noticed this happening as well, and I discovered if I refresh the page repeatedly they will show up.
---augusta on 8/21/06


Emcee - Once you are dead, that is it -- over; finished; no more chances. The only chance that each and every one of us gets on this earth to turn to Jesus Christ for His free gift of salvation is one time. Most who reject Jesus the first time will probably never accept Him. What you say about praying for the dead is nowhere to be found in Scripture. It is clear that you have another Jesus, another gospel.
---Helen_5378 on 8/21/06


Praying for the dead is like asking a rock for the time of day - pointless.
---Crystal on 8/21/06


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Tina .# 3 Jesus was with God, or indeed was, as the Word, was God, right from the beginning.
Mary was not there at the very beginning, so she could not have been God's mother. & It would have been a very special kind of incest if God was His own Son, by a woman who did not live till thousands of years later.
She bore Jesus' body for us, that's all
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


Tina .# 2 What are you trying to say? Did you read the whole of my blog, because you have quoted from mid-sentence?
Are you saying that because Jesus is God, Mary has to be God's mother?
Mary was mother of God/Jesus' human body when He came to earth.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


Tina .# 1
Your blog said
"Mary is not...Mother of God...we take away from her our memory of very special honour that was given to her by God, that of being mother of Jesus."
Alan, Jesus is God, the second person of the Trinity. "we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance...the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Athanasian Creed
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


Augusta "Especially now that I know all the evidence for Jesus giving Mary to us to our mother" What is "all the evidence"?,
It makes far more sense to me than Jesus being "dramatic" while he was suffering on the cross (or at any time for that matter)
Who says Jesus was being "dramatic"? It was perfectly natural thing to say, in the circumstances
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


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Augusta ... I did read your blog, and it seemed that your reference to Jesus was very much an afterthought. If I mistook that, I am sorry.
There is clearly no way we can have a discussion about how you can go for comfort to a woman who is dead.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


Emcee ... John 19. 26&27. Jesus said to Mary that John was her son, and John that Mary was his mother.
How could words spoken by the human Jesus, to a single human being about another single human being, possibly be interpreted as meaning that now Mary is mother of us all?
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


Emcee ... I have have found it now, but at the time I posted my query, it had been listed for several hours, without being published.
There is usaully at most a few minutes delay, that is why I thought there may be a glitch.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


Emcee - That is correct.... nothing defiled does enter heaven. Have you read the lists of people that will not enter heaven. The lists are in Galatians 5:19-21, and 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.
---Helen_5378 on 8/21/06


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Mrs Morgan:"It is a holy & wholesome thought to pray for the Dead that they may be loosed from their sins"Macabees 2;12:45Matthew12:32Rev21:27tells us nothing defiled enters heaven.Many christians do not believe But Catholics do.that is why we have masses & prayers for the dead .Can you imagine a good soulfor want of a single sin languishing in a state with no one to pray for them. God is a loving God & gives us many chances.
---Emcee on 8/21/06


information to Moderator.
The list of contributions to blogs showed this:
Was Mary Always A Virgin (513 Comments)
Alan OF UK::The day will come when your eyes are opened & you will not Have to put your own interpretation to Jesus's ...
But the contribution did not appear in the subject blog. It does now, but it took several hours from the time it was listed, till the time it was published on the blog.
Seems odd
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


Mrs Morgan:"It is a holy & wholesome thought to pray for the Dead that they may be loosed from their sins"Macabees 2;12:45Matthew12:32Rev21:27tells us nothing defiled enters heaven.Many christians do not believe But Catholics do.
---Emcee on 8/21/06


Augusta - You can explain all you like about why you went to Mary for comfort, but the fact is that you blasphemed God by doing so. Either Jesus is your comfort or you do not have any comfort. Jesus did not die a cruel death on the Cross so that you could turn to Mary.
---Helen_5378 on 8/21/06


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2/... There is only one thing standing between man and Hell, and that is the Cross of Christ and Jesus' sacrificial death of Himself there for sin. And there is no other way to Heaven but by Jesus' sacrifice of Himself on the Cross for sin.
---Helen_5378 on 8/21/06


Augusta - Your so-called "purgatory" does not exist because God has not and will not make it. If God had made such a place, then He would not have sent His Son Jesus Christ to die on the Cross for the sins of mankind. It is either the Cross or it is nothing. Man's worst problem is pride in thinking that he can do something to get to heaven --- well you're not going there except by the Cross of Christ.
---Helen_5378 on 8/21/06


Alan of Uk::There is no Glitch in the system Scroll down it is mine My Friend.
---Emcee on 8/21/06


augusta , Hello, Did you say "purgatory" Augusta? Do you believe in that? Could you give your Scripture proof to back that up, some are confused about this, they use the Scriptures about Noahs generation before the Great Flood but they misinterpretate It. God Bless. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/21/06


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It is about the blood of Jesus as Morgan says, but she forgets the lost don't know or want to know about the blood and sacrafice of Christ. They need to be witnessed the true gospel of Christ. Many within thier church do not know what born again even means so the gospel has to be given. It is important or else why spread the gospel if it is not necessary? Helen you are correct in your answers. The truth sometimes hurts but it saves.
---lee_1 on 8/21/06


Moderator ... the following appears in the list of blogs:

Was Mary Always A Virgin (513 Comments)
Alan OF UK::The day will come when your eyes are opened & you will not Have to put your own interpretation to Jesus's... But the blog does not actually show up on the blog itself. Is this a glitch in the system?

Moderator - I am not sure I understand the question?
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


Jack ...have a go, you can make multiple blogs if you proof will take more than 85 words
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06


alan: "And I don't need either to enable me to remember their lives, or rejoice in the happiness"
Alan, there are lots of people do want to keep their loved ones ashes to venerate, and it does bring them comfort. I am one of them myself. People have different ways of coping.
I'm sorry about the loved ones you've lost. My family has really dwindled down too. Still have my parents though, thank the Lord.
---augusta on 8/20/06


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Alan: "There is no scriptural evidence that He was elevating Mary to the position of Our Mother, or to being Mother of God."
Alan, first off, I don't believe in sola scriptura and I interpret the words with far deeper meaning. Especially now that I know all the evidence for Jesus giving Mary to us to our mother. It makes far more sense to me than Jesus being "dramatic" while he was suffering on the cross (or at any time for that matter).
---augusta on 8/20/06


Helen: "Where are you going when you die Augusta?"

Hopefully to purgatory (which is a "state" not a place).
---augusta on 8/20/06


You have gone from Mary to relics, but still nothing about Jesus. --Helen_5378

Helen, the topic is MARY, NOT Jesus. This is why I'm posting about MARY. Even when we Caths aren't posting about MARY one of the Prots always brings MARY back up, then you accuse us of always posting about MARY. It's a no-win situation.
---augusta on 8/20/06


"Mary is not...Mother of God...we take away from her our memory of very special honour that was given to her by God, that of being mother of Jesus."

Alan, Jesus is God, the second person of the Trinity. "we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance...the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Athanasian Creed
---Tina5349 on 8/20/06


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I never said that I go to my mom or anyone else IN PLACE OF JESUS (He is my ULTIMATE source of support and comfort of course). But this was the first time I could not go to mom - my source of earthly support - when I needed her most. So instead I went to Mary my heavenly mother for the *kind* of comfort that my mother couldn't give me. Do you understand now?
---augusta on 8/20/06


Alan, please read my post carefully, OK?
My mother and I are very close and always have been. She has always been the first person I go to for comfort and support. I am talking about out of *humans* here, just as you may go to your father, brother, or your mother etc, I go to my mom.

cont.
---augusta on 8/20/06


Jack - The Word of God (The Bible) does not teach the perpetual virginity of Mary. Come on -- the woman was married and she had other children. Can you imagine being married for any length of time, long or short, and not going near your wife. Get real.
---Helen_5378 on 8/20/06


Alan OF UK::The day will come when your eyes are opened & you will not Have to put your own interpretation to Jesus's words,If He meant your Earthly Mother He would have said it Instead He SAID "Behold Your Mother"Like many things Jesus said & christians don't Believe this is just one more,sorry your non acceptance is your Loss & you do not Know it,MY Friend.
---Emcee on 8/20/06


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It's not just the Roman Catholic Church that teaches the perpetual virginity of Mary.

It is taught by ALL the aposotlic churches of the East.

It was taught and believed by the original Reformers.

And it's taught in the Bible, though it would take more than 85 words to explain it.

The proof is to be sought in the traditional Jewish meaning of "first born son," (see Matthew 1) which does NOT mean the woman had other children.
---Jack on 8/20/06


Augusta ... I get upset when I am misrepresented by someone else, so when you said "a few words on an internet blog (which you blatantly misrepresented, btw)" I thought I would check out whether I had been guilty of this.
I can't see anything which I said that did not follow what you had yourself said.
You had clearly out Mary ahead of Jesus as a Comforter, as it was to her you prayed and who comforted you, not Jesus.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/20/06


Mrs Morgan - There is a battle for the lost souls of men. Some of us will fight it with the preaching of the gospel, while others will fight it with praying for lost souls to come to Jesus. You say "don't worry" - what, are you just going to let them all go to hell?
---Helen_5378 on 8/20/06


I think you used a bold tag for one of you words. I'm too lazy to do that anymore. :o
---augusta on 8/20/06


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Augusta # 4 You say "I'm sure glad that the Lord is my judge and not you & Helen"
So am I glad, Augusta. I have not judged you, and do not and will not judge you.
Read what I said "So I don't say that this reverence for Mary is something that will lead them to hell, because I do not think that we can judge, whatever thay say, the real basis of their Faith in Christ"
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/20/06


Helen was right when she said ""Behold your mother" -Jesus said this to the Apostle John from the Cross. Jesus never said it to anybody else" & Thank you, but we do know that John was not Mary's son. That's why Jesus said it.
There is no scriptural evidence that He was elevating Mary to the position of Our Mother, or to being Mother of God.
He was just saying "This is my earthly mother, I won't be around physically, so please treat her as your mother, John"
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/20/06


Augusta - What you have written about the veneration of relics I just cannot bring myself to read it all. It makes me feel sick. You have gone from Mary to relics, but still nothing about Jesus. Where are you going when you die Augusta?
---Helen_5378 on 8/20/06


Alan 8869ofUK - I think what Augusta means by the HTML (Hotmail) thing is that she is really saying that you and I emailed each other privately. Am I right Augusta?
---Helen_5378 on 8/20/06


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Augusta # 2 "I suggest you don't ever have your loved ones cremated" Sadly, Augusta, I have lost both my parents, my parents-in-law, and my wife. I feared neither their bones nor their ashes. And I don't need either to enable me to remember their lives, or rejoice in the happiness.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/20/06


Augusta ... #1 Once again I break my silence, to respond to what you have written to me:
"Boy it must have for you to take the time to use HTML. lol"
Not sure what you mean by that! I'm not even aware that I do use HTML
I know it is something to do with computer language, but that's all.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/20/06


Alan 8869ofUK - According to Scripture, what does it say about Idolaters -- where does Scripture say they will not go? See 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 and Galatians 5:20,21.
---Helen_5378 on 8/20/06


Helen: "Behold your mother" -Jesus said this to the Apostle John from the Cross. Jesus never said it to anybody else..."
Yeah & Mary was not the apostle Johns' "mother" either since you want to get technical. You think the Lord really felt like or was capable of silly theatrics while he was struggling to breathe on that cross? I don't. All of Christs' words (and especially from the cross) had profound meaning which you would know had you listened to the Church.
---augusta on 8/20/06


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alan writes: "#3 So Helen, faced with what Augusta says, I see for the first time, something which you have seen before."
I'm sure glad that the Lord is my judge and not you & Helen. He will judge me by my heart - which *He* knows - instead of by a few words on an internet blog (which you blatantly misrepresented, btw).
Lord bless & heal,
augusta
---augusta on 8/20/06


The early Christians loved their bones.
"Accordingly, we afterwards took up his bones, as being more precious than the most exquisite jewels, and more purified than gold, and deposited them in a fitting place, whither, being gathered together, as opportunity is allowed us, with joy and rejoicing, the Lord shall grant us to celebrate the anniversary of his martyrdom, both in memory of those who have already finished their course..." St. Polycarp, (disciple of St. John) 151 AD
---augusta on 8/20/06


Alan: "Augusta's comments about veneration of the bones of saints sent shudders down my spine..."
Boy it must have for you to take the time to use HTML. lol
So, are you scared of bones, or that word "veneration"? If it's the former I suggest you don't ever have your loved ones cremated, and if it's the latter I suggest a good dictionary & bible because veneration of relics is biblical.
"Here I is Lord, I's comin' now
Dem bones gonna rise again." :)
---augusta on 8/20/06


3/... This is done in other parts of the world too, Philippines and South America. I was sent a big email from somebody in Spain with pictures taken of the procession there, and if you think that the bones sent chills down your spine ---- well, I just wish you could see the pictures for yourself if you could bear to look.
---Helen_5378 on 8/19/06


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2/... Luther arrived in Rome fully expecting to see a very beautiful city. What he saw sent more than shudders down his spine --- wagons full of human remains purported to be the relics of saints. Makes me feel sick to think at just where they got all the bones from, only God knows. Have you ever seen for example in Spain the huge processions they have at Easter time with gigantic statues of Mary carried through the streets? (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 8/19/06


Helen_5378 & Everyone, there should be no battle, Jesus loves Christians and Catholics. It's all about focusing on Christ, it is His Blood that saves people. Mary was blessed among all women because she gave birth to our Lord Jesus. God knows everyone's heart, if Jesus is in our heart or not, so don't worry.--Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/19/06


Alan 8869ofUK - Praise God that He has shown you. Now you will see where I am coming from. What Augusta has said is absolutely true and it can be verified either in books or on the web I would imagine. When they say they are trusting Jesus they are talking about the communion wafer that they think Jesus is in. Veneration of the relics of "saints" goes back at least to the time of Luther. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 8/19/06


Augusta - Apology for what?
---Helen_5378 on 8/19/06


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"Mrs Morgan - Yes I know that Mrs Morgan. It came to mind after I had posted, so I do believe I was not meant to put it there. It is enough to battle the RCCs who say Mary was taken up to heaven, without giving them more fodder to feed their lies. I believe it was wise to not mention it ok."
You mean no apology for... "Her body is somewhere here on earth, as are the bodies of *all* the other Bible greats too." ?
---augusta on 8/19/06


Emcee - "Behold your mother" -- Jesus said this to the Apostle John from the Cross. Jesus never said it to anybody else, and that includes you.
---Helen_5378 on 8/19/06


Helen & Augusta ... #4 And I would also say that there is shown here the danger that in our correct insistence that Mary is not perpetually virgin, is not intercessor, not co-redemptrix, is not to take the place of Jesus in our line of commmunication, is not Mother of God... there is the danger that in sayiing that, we take away from her our memory of very special honour that was given to her by God, that of being mother of Jesus
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/19/06


Helen & Augusta ... #3 So Helen, faced with what Augusta says, I see for the first time, something which you have seen before.
My reservqtion about agreeing with you is that Augusta does say in effect that the cornerstone of her faith is Jesus, and this has been what other Catholics have said for themselves. So I don't say that this reverence for Mary is something that will lead them to hell, because I do not think that we can judge, whatever thay say, the real basis of their Faith in Christ.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/19/06


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Helen & Augusta ... #2 Now Augusta's comments are different, and do seem to be blasphemous, reducing Jesus to an "add-on" to trust and reliance on Mary.
Augusta's comments about veneration of the bones of saints sent shudders down my spine, as I have never heard any of my Catholic friends, or others here, talk about this before.
So Helen, faced with what Augusta says, I now seen for the first time, something which you have seen before.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/19/06


Helen & Augusta ... #1 I said I was going to bow out. But that was before I read what Augusta said, and I have to say that I found that blasphemous, that Augusta found so much comfort from Mary that she seemed to forget Jesus.
With most Roman Catholic people, including Emcee, the very high regard given to Mary seemed to me to fall short of blasphemy and idolatry, but to be an unnecessary & unBiblical "add-on" to Trust in Jesus. So I regarded it as mistaken and wasteful, but not damning.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/19/06


Moderatot, helen & Augusta ... I have totally messed transmitting htis series of blogs to you, and my cutting & pasting has meant some bits have probably not come. So I am going to have to start again ... This time I've put it in Word so composing the blogs should hopefully work.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/19/06


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