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Does Bush Have An Evil Spirit

Saul was leader of Israelites and understanding George W. Bush is America's leader. First Samuel 16:14 states, "an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him". In this instance scripture is speaking of Saul. Could this scenario possibly be happening again?

Moderator - I believe President Bush is either the best president America has ever had or he is taking his queue from the Illuminati. At this point, I could make a case for either.

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Blessings to all, President Bush was a good leader for America when he was first elected. He seemed to have good Christian morals and values. But after the 9-11 terrorist attacks on this Country, I believe that he has lost his focus, especially on God and on what is in the best interest of the citizens of America. He has made a lot of bad decisions, which has affected us all. We need a President that will not just do his will, but the will of God for this Country. God Bless you all!
---Cynthia on 11/21/07


And now we have Bush's former press secretary, Scott McClellan, saying that both Bush and Cheney lied about the Valerie Plame issue.

Can you say impeachment?

---NurseRobert on 11/21/07


Catherine said: We all were in favour of going to war.

NO we all were NOT. This war was a mistake from the beginning, based on false information and based on bad advice. 5 years now, for what?
---NurseRobert on 11/21/07


Greyrider, by NO definition did we find WMDs. Do you also support going into Darfur to save the people there from genocide? Or go into North Korea to get rid of that wacko?

Iraq was the least of our problems.
---NurseRobert on 11/21/07


I believe that President Bush made some hasty decisions based on emotions. I believe that he knows this. He was very angry when 9-11 struck. We all were in favour of going to war. He had Americas backing. But things started going sour. Now he is on everyones list. And it is not fair. Unless we get a President who hears from God, this country is in for a rude more awakening. Thank you.++
---catherine on 11/21/07




Greyrider:

Bush always linked Iraq with "the war on Terror", whose mandate was based on 9/11 - even though Al Qaeda was linked with Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan but never Iraq.

Yes, Saddam tortured and murdered many. Does the US have a mandate to invade any country that doesn't obey US law? US never invaded the Soviet Union, and they did many of the same things. The administration says its OK to torture "enemy combattants". How is the US better than Saddam?
---StrongAxe on 11/21/07


Strong Axe - who said he lied? Other people with a history of lying. This is a classic example of "when you think you have all the answers, I'll change the questions" According to the 1990's definition of WMDs, we DID find them on FOUR different occasions. The liberals just changed the definition so they could claim we didn't find them. But from a Christian standpoint, I supported the war to put an end to the rape rooms and the torturing of the children of Saddam's enemies.
---Greyrider on 11/16/07


There are two Sauls, one in the OT and one in the NT.

OT Saul started out as the first king of Israel. He started out on the right footing, everything was proper. He ended up on the wrong footing and defeated.
---Michelle on 11/16/07


NT Saul started out on the wrong footing but ended up being right with God.

Transformation. Many are saying and I also believe that the next President will start out on the wrong footing but end up being right with God.
---Michelle on 11/16/07


Bush has repeatedly lied to the American people about many things. In particular, about the justifications for the Iraq war, even when he KNEW that the intelligence he was getting was false - just to justify hiw own personal "war on terror" that has killed hundreds of times as many people as 9/11, and cost the AVERAGE American household over $20,000 EACH.

Such actions are deceptive and evil - regardless of whether he was guided by "a spirit" or did it on his own.
---StrongAxe on 11/16/07




There's too much partiality right now. As far as the idea of giving a President "grades" on different issues, I honestly believe that 30 years from now, Bush will get all A's and F's. It's been a bizarre 8 years.
---Greyrider on 11/15/07


3.Can you say with certainty that God did not work His will through GWB to smite the fundamental Muslim extremists and free an oppressed, brutalized people which will ultimately give them the opportunity to come to know Jesus? How can end times prophecy be fulfilled when an entire nation is oppressed and denied the Truth? We are told that EVERY nation will be given the opportunity to know Jesus is Christ before the Second Coming. Could God be paving the way for Muslims, et al to know Him?
---Loree on 11/1/07


No, I don't believe G.W. has an evil spirit. But I have noticed someone else losing their better judgment over the last few years, Jimmy C. Seems very bitter.
---anonymous on 1/12/07


I agree with the moderator. Only God knows for sure.
---faye4464 on 1/11/07


Bush has done a terrible job as president. Schools are the segregated now than since Martin Luther King Jr. died. Over 3,000 troops have died in the war in Iraq where there were no weapons of mass destruction and we could have sent every person in Africa to school for what it cost to go into Iraq.
---Katie on 1/11/07


Jeanne, Rachel, I'm right there with you on this one. Whatever the shortcomings may be, I want to support the 'Office'. Just as I did for past presidents. Like some of the stars who said they would have to leave this nation, they're still here, making movies and millions. The American Dream. It hasn't worked so well for the D.Chickens, though.
---R.A. on 11/16/06


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Bush is controlled by multi-national corperations and globalist. The war was and is about oil. We are building permanent bases their now to protect the wests oil interest. Bush was the lessor of two evils, the Democrats being socialist, but evil none the less. skull and Bones, secret societies all whisper in his ear. Very few real conservatives exist in the republican party, most are globalist. The Democrats are mostly beyond liberal-they are leftist, like the new speaker, San-Fran-Nan.
---MikeM on 11/16/06


On the oil issue: If we invaded Iraq 3 years ago to gain control of their oil supply, why are we still there?
---AlwaysOn on 11/16/06


Good Point Jeanne: "No one knows him..." so this bit about the spirit and cult nonsense is slander...sure the accusations are suggestions [not statements]...but they plant negative seeds.

~rachel~
---Reiter on 11/16/06


They say he is dumb, cant speak an idiot, then U here he is controlling oil prices, controlling the war, so which is it? No one knows him on here well enough to know if he has an evils spirit or not. Many said Clinton did with the spirit of lust who knows we are not in the inner circle. Many presidents though belong to the Skull and Bone society and many say that is evil, in fact several have.
---Jeanne on 11/15/06


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Saul was jealous of a youthful generation that possessed more zeal than he did. Saul was jealous of the vivaciousness of David.
Saul is not Bush. Bush is not Saul. Saul became a bit insecure in himself. Bush is very secure in himself. Bush is Zealous [not jealous].

~rachel~........
---Reiter on 11/15/06


Loree, where did you come up with "Liberals are pacifists". Please quote your source.
---NurseRobert on 6/26/06


cont. Pacifist? Im neither a pacifist, nor a war monger. Liberals are pacifists. I am VERY much conservative and support U.S. affairs in foreign countries at the moment. I have invested a lot of time in politics and world events, so I am not totally ignorant of the machinations of ideologues from both sides of the aisle, but I am also not oblivious to Gods presence in our system of authority. To deny His presence is to deny He is All and in All.
---Loree on 6/21/06


cont. As for THIS specific administration, I rely wholly on the Spirit in discerning whether or not it is serving Gods purpose. The Spirit cannot be fooled. This administration has sat well with my spirit for almost 6 years. My maxim is, be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Walk in Light. Fellowship with God and you will be given the gifts of the Spirit in accordance to His purpose.
---Loree on 6/21/06


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cont. My insistence that we remember Isaiah 55:9 should provide some insight as to my own personal stance in the matter. In comparison to God's knowledge and understanding, ours IS vain and useless; especially when it is so laden with earthly ideologies. My point is, all authority serves some purpose, otherwise they wouldn't survive day one. They do not exist despite God.
---Loree on 6/21/06


Mike, Moral quandary? As I recall, I didn't suggest that we should'nt use the minds that God has blessed us with. If you look closely at my last post, you will see that I said we should first recognize that all authority is ordained by God, THEN do our thinking accordingly and in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. "Search God for His purpose" was, I believe, my precise statement. Where you and I differ, I believe, is in whom we place our trust for discernment.
---Loree on 6/21/06


Mike, I apologize for my long absence from this discussion. I got involved in something rather important, but did not intend to abandon it. I hope you will eventually return also.
---Loree on 6/21/06


I do desire to do Gods will. As a pacifist if 'prevailing authoritys' came to take your kids away, would you let them(Like in Cuba, North Korea)I would resist 'till death. Patrick Henry, a Christian, was he against Gods will in resisting authority? See the film 'The hiding Place'-and try to say that fine Christian woman Corrie-Ten-Boom was going against Gods will. As to reason, my maxim is,"If you have to check in your brains at the front door with your coat and hat, your in the wrong place."
---MikeM on 6/7/06


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Loree- I persist in that God did not endow me with a mind and then ask me to forgo its use. If the human mind is vain, then why did he create us with this brain and ask us to forever deny its use? You are in a moral quandery, not me. You are in denial of free will. Then why live in a country where, according to you, the founders were all in rebellion to Gods will by creating this country in the first place by rebelling against those who, acording to you, ruled by Gods authority?
---MikeM on 6/7/06


t.c. I was not drafted I willingly joined the US Army when I was 17. I am presently serving in one of those countries now, hopefully doing my part to bring this conflict to a close. I still think that every US Citizen needs to perform some kind of public service as commitment to this country. How many illegal aliens would we have here if they were required to perform public service to prove their commitment to this country?
---randy on 6/7/06


P. III-You can cite every hero in the book of history and you will still not attain Gods knowledge and understanding in matters that belong to Him. As for me, I would rather be beheaded by the prevailing religion or secular entity than face God and hear something other than Well done, good and faithful servant..
---Loree on 6/6/06


P. II-If weve determined that All authority is ordained (not blessed) by God, then it naturally follows that we must first search God for His purpose. Look at the authority given to those who crucified Jesus. Place yourself and your beliefs in that era. Do you believe God would bless your disapproval of His purpose? Is it possible your disapproval may have even brought Gods wrath upon you?
---Loree on 6/6/06


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Mike, why do you persist in debating Scripture with your knowledge and your understanding? Does it make Gods authority and instruction any less real or true? Your knowledge and understanding is vain and useless. Another CN member, in another discussion, asked of the likelihood of despots and dictators coming into power DESPITE the providence and permissive will of God. Do you think this is even remotely possible?
---Loree on 6/6/06


Loree; In the story, and movie 'The Hiding Place' when the NAZI's come to take the Tenn-Boom(spell?) family for harbering Jews the NAZI officer quotes from Romans about being subject to authorities in an effort to show theur 'disobedience' to civil law, (meaning Nazi's) was against Gods will.

I gather in 1776 you would have been a tory.
---MikeM on 6/6/06


Laree; sometimes civil disobedience is the highest form of patriotism. Extreme civle disobedience is know as revolution. Often in history Christian were at the heart of disobedience, Dr.ML King, womens sufferage, anti-slavery, temperance, unions, and our own revolution, in which all former 'authority' which claimed to be from God, was tossed out.
---MikeM on 6/6/06


Madison, where do I send your combat medal? I am sure that you have stories that could raise the hair on some in the military. And I always remember that they called Christ, Rabbi, which I understand means teacher. Bless you for your service.
---randy on 6/6/06


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Part IV. In that case, we are to appeal to higher powers; first within the system and ultimately to God. If we find ourselves in a position between the highest level of power within that system and God, we choose Gods ways and willfully subject ourselves to punishment from the system. If we are guiltless, what they do to us is ultimately inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Herein lies your liberty.
---Loree on 6/5/06


Part III. Romans 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake tells us that if you practice civil disobedience, you possibly subject yourself to Gods wrath and offending your own conscience. It is possible, however, for the state to be the offender of your conscience.
---Loree on 6/5/06


Part II. While Romans 13 instructs us to subject ourselves to the higher powers, it does not tell us to blindly bow to them. That is not what I have been trying to say.
---Loree on 6/5/06


Part I. Mike, does God have the power and authority to remove evil rulers/governments if He so wishes? If yes, then it follows that He ALLOWS them to remain in power for a time. If He allows them, how are they not ordained? Excuse any offense, but I suspect that you haven't a full grasp of the term ordained. Youre saying it's got to be good to be God ordained and thats just not the case.
---Loree on 6/5/06


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Madison, some of the schools Ive seen (especailly here in Rochester) are like combat zones.. Yes, youve done your time!
---NurseRobert on 6/5/06


Madison, I think you'll have to do more public service than that. We are not talking about what you've done it's what your going to do for the sake of oil.
---tc on 6/5/06


Randy, you should go live in one of these countries where we are supposedly fighting for freedom. Being drafted definitely is not a freedon!!
---tc on 6/5/06


tc. and randy: Does being a public school teacher for 20 years count as public service? If so, I have done my time.
---Madison1101 on 6/5/06


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TC I think that bill is a great idea. Few people in this country have any idea of sacrifice especially the moneyed people. Generally it is not their children that are in the military. It is time that everyone who is a citizen put in time in some kind of public service. It doesnt have to be military just as long that their efforts make them invested in this country. BTW I was in the Army during Viet Nam and continue to serve my country in the Gulf.
---randy on 6/5/06


nurserobert; "why aren't we in Dafur, the Sudan or Somilia,or North Korea?" No great oil reserves.
---MikeM on 6/5/06


Loree; Your logic is unique. if dictaterships are 'ordained' by God, then, by your logic, standing against them would be against God, Therefore our American revolution's heros, Washington, Jefferson, Paine, etc were all antiGod; and those Christians who fought against communism were also anti-God. "The authority over us would be always be fair or just" Loree, most goverments are NOT fair and just, and goverments that are evil must be stood against. Are you saying Christians must be pacifist?
---MikeM on 6/5/06


Elder, yes, civilians were getting killed by Hussian. He is an evil and vile man. But that is NOT why we got involed in Iraq. These secular differences have been going on in Iraq for Hundreds and Thousands of years. Look at what happned this past weekend between the Sunni and the Shite.

If we are so concerned about people being killed by their government, why aren't we in Dafur, the Sudan or Somilia. Why did we choose Iraq? Why not North Korea?
---NurseRobert on 6/5/06


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Nurse read again and you will see my wars are straight.
I never said the hostages were in a war.
I simply asked, in the current war that you are so concerned about, were civilians getting killed before we got involved or not.
Your statements make it sound like they are getting killed because of US involvement.
---Elder on 6/5/06


Little is known about the Apostle Pauls death, but according to Christian tradition, Emperor Nero was in power at the time (64 A.D.). It has been debated that Nero had any involvement with the apostles presumed beheading. Regardless, Pauls martyrdom is said to be due to the criminalization of Christianity.
---Loree on 6/5/06


Yes, tyrannies, dictatorships, monarchies, democracies, republics, what have you, they are all ordained by God. He never promised He would only ordain our favorite form of authority. He never promised the authority over us would be always be fair or just.
---Loree on 6/5/06


NurseRobert, what eventually happened to those kings, princes and idols set up by the Israelites in the book of Hosea? In Acts 18, Paul was accused of propagating an illegal religion. How did he handle it? In John 19:10-11, how did Jesus respond to Pilate's outburst? Jesus said, "Thou couldst have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above."
---Loree on 6/5/06


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To clear things up further. Bin Laden and his terrorists blew up the WTC. Hussein was just a despot with a lot of oil. We were fighting the Taliban for a little while when all of a sudden Hussein's oil became more important to this administration than getting Bin Laden. Bin Laden was in Afghanistan. Where are most of our boys dying? Iraq.
---Madison1101 on 6/4/06


Cont'd
including women, between the ages of 18 and 42 to perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." The House is to convene on June 6 (06/06/06] to debate and possibly adopt this bill.
---tc on 6/4/06


On February 14, 2006, Congressman Charles Rangel (Democrat - NY) introduced a bill (Universal National Service Act of 2006 - HR 4752 IH) aiming at drafting everyone - men and women alike - from the ages of 18 to 42 into the military for a minimum period of 2 years. Or to quote the bill: "To provide for the common defense by requiring all persons in the United States,
---tc on 6/4/06


Elder, The hostages were in Iran. Reagan was supporting Bin Laudin in Afganistan. You need to get your wars straight.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


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Maybe Reagan could have kept his weapons if Carter had done his job.
What solved the Hostage crisis after the Carter tour was the fact that Reagan swore in as President.
---Elder on 6/4/06


Cond #2
I ask about the war, were civilians getting killed before our troops went in?
I am with some of the troops quite often. Why do these soldiers, especially the wounded ones want to get back in the battle? Why do they say that we are making a difference?
How many of us get our information from the media only?
---Elder on 6/4/06


Elder, just how did the "Clinton group raped and robbed Social Security of its funds to gain this "surplus?"

Please back this up with facts.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Elder, the war in Iraq has NOTHING to do with Bin Laden. We wouldn't be in this situation if Ronald Reagan didnt give weapons to Bin Ladin to fight the Russians.

Clinton has not been President for 6 years now. Since 2000, the Republicans have had control of both houses of Congress. Now they have control of the SCOTUS. Its time for the Republicans to stop blameing Clinton for the woes of the world and take responsibly for thier parties actions in running the country.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


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Mike, in a way I agree with you but the problem is with the election part. Elections have been popularized in the last three hundred years. And when that scripture was written they were not under elected officials. Also because someone is fairly elected doesnt make them right. I wont start an argument about bush but we can look around the world where some freely elected leaders are taking their people in the wrong direction.
---randy on 6/4/06


Part XI.
Why does Ephesians 6:12 refer to Christians' struggle "against principalities and powers" if we are supposed to obey them?

I take it that Romans 13:7 tells us to deal with anyone: "Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Part X.
If it is true that all earthly authorities, i.e governments, derive their power from God, and that their rulers are acting as God's ministers, then God was responsible for instituting murderous tyrannies like Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and Red China. So should we take Romans 13:6 to mean that it was good for Germans to dutifully pay taxes to Hitler's Third Reich?
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Part XI.
Many Christians take that first portion of Romans 13 in a very dangerous way. The belief that all governmental authority originates with God is precisely what gave us such dangerous concepts as the divine right of kings.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


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Part VIII.
God also said there are powers not ordained by Him (Hosea 8:4, "They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not.") Romans 13 is probably one of the most misused scripture used against Christian by the ungodly. It sounds so convincing to obey those who appear to be in power. For too long, secular governments have used Romans 13 as a club to beat Christians into obedience to them. Just because a group is in power does not mean God put them there.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Part VII.
The truth is that Paul was beheaded for promoting a rival government known as the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven.

Since Paul was addressing the saints at Rome, it is logical that he would instruct them to submit to those who look after their souls. It is a reminder to be obedient to the authorities God has placed over His people.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Part VI.

Loree, I feel you are misinterpreting what Romans 13 actually says. In this chapter, Paul was writing to all those in Rome who are "beloved of God, called to be saints." (Romans 1:7). He was not writing to the general population at Rome. He was specifically addressing the "called out ones," the Body of Christ. If Paul was advocating obedience to secular authorities, then why would Caesar have Paul beheaded if he was promoting obedience to Rome?
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Part V. 8. The war must not cause greater evil than the evil to be eliminated. (War was never declared by Congress. It was pushed by others in the presidents cabinet.)

9. Non-combatants (civilians) must not be intentionally harmed. (Shall we talk about the THOUSANDS of Iraqi civilians that have been killed since the beginning of the war?)

10. Prisoners and conquered peoples must be treated justly. (You can figure this one out)
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


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Part IV. 6. There must be serious prospects of success; bloodshed without hope of victory cannot be justified. (We went into this war with NO exit stradegy. Hope of a quick win was a pipe dream.)

7. The war must be declared by a legitimate authority. Private individuals or groups should seek redress of their rights through their governments, not by acts of war.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Part III. 3. The ultimate objective of war must be to bring peace. (What peace have we brought to Iraq. We have caused more turmoil than anything else).

4. Revenge, revolt, a desire to harm, dominate, or exploit and similar things are not justification for war.

5. Every possible means of peacefully settling the conflict must be exhausted first. (Condolezza Rice was advocating a regieme change in Iraq long before 9/11).
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Part II. Basically it says:
There must be a just cause for the war.

1. war must be waged only in response to certain, grave and lasting damage inflicted by an aggressor. (What did Iraq do that required us to respond by waging war against them?)
2. The motive for war must be advancement of good or avoidance of evil. (Are we advancing good?)
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


Part I. Loree, have you ever heard of the Just War theory? St. Augustine (354 - 430) and St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) are primarily responsible for formulating the theory of the Just War which has remained the majority Christian approach to war to this day.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/06


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Statistics on paper can say anything.
Example "before Bush became president, our national debt was about $5.7 Trillion, and we had a budget surplus."
Has everyone forgot how the Clinton group raped and robbed Social Security of its funds to gain this "surplus?"
We would not be spending money on war like we are if the other administration had taken responsibility to capture the world's most wanted man when they had the chance.
Do we need another 911 wake up call?
---Elder on 6/4/06


Loree-As for me I go along with Mr. Thomas Jefferson "If kings and queens rule by divine right then let them rule in heaven but by God they will not rule me!" Loree, those same scriptures you use were used by British clergy to support the notion of the divine right of kings. The clergy not the scriptures were hogwash. The notion that we must submit to any civil leader not elected is double hogwash. Liberty or death.
Loree- are you a reconstructionist or do you propose a theocracy for America?
---MikeM on 6/3/06


Peter 2:13-15 - Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
---Loree on 6/3/06


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