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Do We Live By The Word

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God?

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Francis youve already blown your chance to be righteous by obeying that law.

Everyone has.

It wasnt given to us to make us righteous, but to prove us guilty before God and show us our need to Gods salvation thru his Son.

Following the law is good but when you boast of the law and use it condemn others, you also condemn yourself.
---JackB on 11/3/10


LEEJ I need a YES or NO answer:
are you saying that does these leads to death and condemnation?

1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

Romans 13: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
---francis on 11/3/10


francis //LEEJ are you saying that does these leads to death and condemnation?

I would strongly suggest that you read 2 Cor. 3:7f and see for yourself. What does the Word tell you?

Those that believe they can become righteous enough in the sight of God are those who are without His grace, and it is His grace through faith that one is saved.

Eph. 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
---leej on 11/3/10


francis - The problem is that if you so much as break any of the 10 commandments you listed, you will be held accountable for breaking all of them.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If you want to be a Christian, you must learn to walk by faith.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Let you in on a little secret, you have always in some way or the other broken the Sabbath. Examine that for yoruself.
---leej on 11/3/10


LEEJ are you saying that does these leads to death and condemnation?

1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

Romans 13: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
---francis on 11/3/10




francis the 10 commandments as you apparently do not know is declared in scripture as the ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7,9). But it also says that the ministry of the Spirit is far more glorious for those who walk in His Spirit actually fulfill the requirements of the law.

Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Of course, for those who do not know His Spirit, all you really have to guide you is the law. But the law will only tell you what sin is, it will never justify you or make you righteous.Romans 3:20
---leej on 11/3/10


Ga 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

So you see francis, until you receive the promise by faith in Jesus Christ, you will continue to be imprisoned by your sin. You say you observe the Jewish Sabbath but you really do not if the truth were known.
---leej on 11/3/10


Hypocrites believe they can love God and love their neighbour, and skip these commandments:

1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

Romans 13: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
---francis on 11/3/10


// Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

It is obvious that Francis really knows neither the Bible nor its Author. If he did then he not list any of the 10 commandments but such is the plight of those who are still under the law, they have little or nothing to say anything about Jesus.

Romans 13:9-10 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
---leej on 11/2/10


//the will you hear in sunday service is TO DO A LIST OF do's & don'ts. when you are told to obey & do a list of work then that is work.

You will definitely hear those kinds of do's and don'ts in most Seventh Day Adventists and other works salvation churches.

What a pity! Even the Apostle Paul said he could brag about how devouted he was to the law, but counted it all trash when it came to know Christ.

Php 3:8AV Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
---leej on 11/2/10




christian

doing the will of god or what is the will of god in your life?

many ask that question but they don't what it is.

the will you hear in sunday service is TO DO A LIST OF do's & don'ts. when you are told to obey & do a list of work then that is work.
---mike on 11/2/10


Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God?

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also,
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
---francis on 11/2/10


christanleej - //There are many who boast they are doing the work of God but never the will of God.

Interesting comment! One may be a moralist, go to church, study the Bible, help old ladies across the street, etc., how does one know if he is in the will of God?

You may first need to ask the question if you are even in the faith.

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith, prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

The answer lies in whether or not one is bearing fruit in Christ.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, so neither can ye, except ye abide in me.
---leej on 11/2/10


francis //Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from ONE NEW MOON to another, and from ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Obviously the scene here is NOT NOT heaven or even the New Earth.

NLT {As surely as my new heavens and earth will remain, so will you always be my people, with a name that will never disappear says the LORD. All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out.}

Reason: no dead bodies in either heaven or the new earth.
---leej on 11/2/10


leej - There are many who boast they are doing the work of God but never the will of God. But it's the will of God that assures the Christian of his salvation and not the work. The works that follows is in his salvation that he has received. It's merely his Christian duty.

Matthew 5:17 is not a question but a declaration by Jesus Christ.

Your question was: "If Jesus came not to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfil them, did He accomplish that? If so, how?"

You answered it yourself: "..."are you yet an infant Christian just starting to learn what it is all about?"
---christan on 11/2/10


God did not institute the sabbath (rest) until Exodus 16. He corresponded it to the seventh (shebiy'iy) day as a remembrance to His work in creation including the seven day week.
Also notice the words 'as' and 'so' in Isa 66:22 comparing the continuance of Israel's name with the new heaven and earth? Verses 23 & 24 have nothing to do with the new heaven and earth.
Keep pushing your doctrine francis, ignoring context, especially Isa 66:24.
Carcases of the wicked in heaven?
You have been blinded by your doctrine.
---micha9344 on 11/2/10


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francis -I will give you a little help.

God made a new covenant with israel that was UNLIKE the old covenant He had made with them when they left Egypt. (Hebrews 8:8f, Jer. 31:32).

There are 3 basic and obvious reason why your theology is all screwed up. 1) you are unable to distinguish between the New and Old Covenant (you cherry pick the Old), 2) you do not go to a church that preaches either the Bible or the Gospel, 3) You follow the teachings of a false prophet who was kicked out of a church that preached God's word.
---leej on 11/2/10


And you are advocating we should live by that ministry of death and condemnation?

Shame, shame, shame on you!
---leej on 11/1/10
as always your understanding of the Holy scriptures is flawed.

I will give you a little help.

Proverbs 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live, and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Deuteronomy 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
---francis on 11/2/10


BECAUSE IT IS TRUE
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth..
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from ONE NEW MOON to another, and from ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

The new moon is the new month when all will come to the new jerusalem.
Revelation 22:2 the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month:

these ofcourse are the two original ' sacred time" given before SIN.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:
Genesis 2:9 the tree of life
---francis on 11/2/10



//The expression "the Law and the Prophets" is refers to the entire Old Testament.

Even Jewish theologians would tell you that the Old Testaments consists of the Law, the Prophets and the Writings.

In the Old Testament, the sanctuary was the temple or the tabernacle where only the priest could officiate. Since the veil of the temple was rent, believers now can come directly into the presence of God and since the blood of Christ covers them, their sin is not viewed.

Some would have us believe that Christ today ministers in the heavenly sanctuary (so much baloney) but Scripture is very plain that after His ascension He sits at the right hand of God as our High Priest and Advocate.
---leej on 11/1/10


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Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Are you saying carcases of wicked men will be in heaven as well francis?
You keep pushing Isa 66:22-23 as proof of the sabbath in heaven. You are seriously taking these verses out of context as have been stated several times to deaf ears and blind eyes.
Please wake up and understand the context of Isa 66.
Verses 19 and 20 show in context it references the earth.
Your unwillingness to see this in context shows your agenda to your doctrine and not the Word of God.
---micha9344 on 11/1/10


francis //The sanctuary is used to show how God forgave sins (sin being trangression of the ten commandments) that is why none of the ten commandments could be shadows, they are what we live by.

Sin by definition is the violation of law.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And you would limit sin to a trespass of the 10 commandments alone?

And Francis, if you screw up and break any of them, you are held to be guilty of violating all of them.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

And such is the plight of those who are under the law!
---leej on 11/1/10


francis //The sanctuary is used to show how God forgave sins (sin being trangression of the ten commandments) that is why none of the ten commandments could be shadows, they are what we live by.

According to 2 Cor. 3:7,9 the ten commandments are the ministry of death and condemnation.

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious,... which glory was to be done away:... For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

And you are advocating we should live by that ministry of death and condemnation?

Shame, shame, shame on you!
---leej on 11/1/10


The sanctuary pointed to christ as redeemer: the high priest, the lamb, the bread, the wine, the light, the water, the veil all pointed to Jesus. Also in heaven there is a sanctuary in which the real high priest who is Jesus serves.

The sanctuary is used to show how God forgave sins ( sin being trangression of the ten commandments) that is why none of the ten commandments could be shadows, they are what we live by.

So now that christ is our high priest in the heavenly sanctuary, when we break any of the ten commandments, instead of going to an earthly high priest we comes directly to christ.

That is how we LIVE BY THE WORD. We OBEY, and IF we sin, we have an advocate in the heavenly sanctuary.
---francis on 11/1/10


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Yes you could add sabbath, but realize that sabbath is not a shadow, and there are absolutly NO BIBLE VERSES THAT SAYS I AM THE SABBATH or anything like that. Also you would then have to explain why a shadow of christ is in heaven

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 11/1/10


The expression "the Law and the Prophets" is refers to the entire Old Testament. (The Law being the 5 books of Moses, and the Prophets being the rest.) It is the ONLY standard by which we are to judge the veracity of doctrine. (Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.) Jesus was indeed the fulfillment of all OT prophecies, many of which are contained in the Law. (Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures ... they are they which testify of me.) He was also the fulfillment (not the destruction)of the Ten Commandment Law, since the transgression of THAT Law is SIN (1Joh 3:4), and He died to "fulfill" the requirement of that Law - death (Rom 6:23).
---jerry6593 on 11/1/10


And you can add -

(Sabbath) rest in His person, not in a day.
Hebrews 4.

(food) separation from other peoples (1 Peter 2:9

(redemption & adoption) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
---leej on 11/1/10


Other fulfilments include:
( Earthly sanctuary) Hebrews 9:11 Christ..an high priest of.. perfect tabernacle, not made with hands,

( cleansing of earthly sanctuary)Hebrews 9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

PLEASE ADD MORE WITH THE TEXT
---francis on 11/1/10


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If Jesus came not to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfil them, did He accomplish that? If so, how?
---leej on 10/30/10

EVERYTHING THAT WAS IN THE EARTHLY SANCTUARY WAS FULFILLED BY JESUS:

( earthly high priest)Hebrews 3:1 HIGH PRIEST of our profession, Christ Jesus,

( passover lamb)1 Corinthians 5:7 Christ our passover

( temple veil) Hebrews 10:20 the veil, his flesh,

( shewbread)John 6:35I am the bread of life:

( lamp or candle)John 9:5 I am the light

( laver)John 4:10 living water.

( blood of animals) Hebrews 13:12 Jesus sanctify the people with his own blood,

( Wine) 1 Corinthians 11:25 my blood:
---francis on 10/31/10


christan - you have not answered my question regarding Matthew 5:17.

Am I a Christian? I believe there is an abundant of evidence that would prove that I am. In fact, I have been a Bible distributor for the past 30 years, taught sunday school, took college level courses in theology, served in a soup kitchen, seen the Lord at work in my life in leading others to faith.

Now you may try to answer the question posed, or are you yet an infant Christian just starting to learn what it is all about?
---leej on 10/31/10


leej, you commented - "If Jesus came not to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfil them, did He accomplish that? If so, how?"

Are you really a Christian? Or are you pretending to be one? In other words, I take it from your admission that you do not believe that Christ's death at Calvary was an atonement for the sins of His people and that His resurrection conquered death for His people.

I really hope you are really sincere with your question and want to learn more about who Jesus Christ is and the mission that He came for.
---christan on 10/31/10


Jesus declared, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17)

The 'law' here spoken of is the Mosaic law, not moral law which is inherent in the very image of God Himself.

If Jesus came not to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfil them, did He accomplish that? If so, how?
---leej on 10/30/10


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Jesus declared, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17)

Matthew 22:36-40, "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
---christan on 10/29/10


You can find the Scripture in Deuteronomy 8:3>>>Is more than just a reference to Scripture, it refers to the entire will of God that preserves the life of man...God had protected them by not allowing their clothes to wear out, nor their feet to become tender. God was educating Israel as His Sons...Note: Please bear in mind that in some text Israel means God's people.....Luke 4:4... Satan approached Christ assuming that He was God and could exercise divine power. However, for Christ to exercise His divine prerogatives at this point would be to step put of the pathway leading o the cross. Jesus met each temptation as a man. He quoted Scripture each time++
---catherine on 10/29/10


Rhonda - JackB is correct. And we could add further scripture for his contention -

Ga 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Ga 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

'from faith to faith' means ones starts and ends with faith.
---leej on 10/27/10


//Christ abolished laws of MEN //

---Rhonda on 10/23/10

And yet the New Testament tells us to submit ourselves to the powers that be because they are ordained of God.

Youve got the wrong law that was abolished. The law that was "contrary to us" has been taken out of the way and nailed to His cross. This is the law that served only to condemn us so that we would seek Gods righteousness by FAITH. This is what the Jews couldnt get past and it seems that they werent the only ones. We serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Righteousness is not by the law. If youre gonna try it righteousness that way youd better be darn sure you are *perfect* at it or else you are doom.
---JackB on 10/27/10


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Rhonda //How about the commandments forbidding hybridizing crops or wearing blended fabrics?
*****

these are laws given by MEN


-----
How do you distinguish between laws written by men and laws written at the direction of God? What is your criteria?

Is only part of Scripture inspired and to be considered God's word?
---leej on 10/26/10


Do you observe the laws of niddah (sexual and marital purity), francis?

How about the commandments forbidding hybridizing crops or wearing blended fabrics?
*****

these are laws given by MEN

---Rhonda on 10/23/10

The answer is YES.

I also obey the TAX LAWS, and the SPEED LIMIT LAWS which are also given by men.
---francis on 10/26/10


Lev 15:26 ...her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation...How many blogs can a person be wrong on at the same

well micha you CERTAINLY are proving to be very good at it LOL

when you TAKE the time to look up the laws of Niddah as DESCRIBED by Cluny they are ADDITIONAL rituals that are ADDED by the Rabbi's found nowhere in Holy Scripture

but go on along now in your insistence of choosing Gods Word to make your point to support Cluny and his ignorance

JUST like those 600+ mosaic laws given by men that TAKE Gods Holy Laws ADDING to each one making them a burden - Gods Holy Just laws are NOT grievous unless of course one REJECTS Holy Scripture
---Rhonda on 10/24/10


Lev 19:18-19 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD. Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
Lev 15:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying,
Lev 15:26 Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation.
How many blogs can a person be wrong on at the same time?
---micha9344 on 10/23/10


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Do you observe the laws of niddah (sexual and marital purity), francis?

How about the commandments forbidding hybridizing crops or wearing blended fabrics?
*****

these are laws given by MEN


Christ abolished laws of MEN

REJECT Gods Word if you choose however by foolishly claiming mens laws are the same as Gods Laws it would be impossible to understand BASIC Scripture
---Rhonda on 10/23/10


They hold because they were re-established in the NEW Testament. Kashuroth were not.

Sounds to me like you're picking and choosing which of the mitzvoth and toevoth are obligatory today.
---Cluny on 10/20/10

So it seems like you really mean that GOD picked and choose what he wanted reestablished in the NT, not me.

So now here is your problem:

Either Christ fulfilled ALL the law, and therefore it was ALL abolished--or else we are still in our sins.
---Cluny on 10/20/

If ANY of them hold clearly Jesus did not abolish ALL.
---francis on 10/20/10


\\You know this is untrue.
Did jesus abolish this one: Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
or this one:Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds, \\

They hold because they were re-established in the NEW Testament. Kashuroth were not.

Do you observe the laws of niddah (sexual and marital purity), francis?

How about the commandments forbidding hybridizing crops or wearing blended fabrics?

Sounds to me like you're picking and choosing which of the mitzvoth and toevoth are obligatory today.
---Cluny on 10/20/10


Either Christ fulfilled ALL the law, and therefore it was ALL abolished--or else we are still in our sins.
---Cluny on 10/20/10

You know this is untrue.
Did jesus abolish this one: Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
or this one:Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds,

Christ only abolished the earthly sanctuary and its services. Blood sacrifices, and earthy priesthood
More like fulfilled than abolished, because he now serves as priest in the heavenly sanctuary by HIS BLOOD
---francis on 10/20/10


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\\which of the Apostles and Elders of Jerusalem ordered you to disturb people's souls by your insisting on imposing a yoke that they themselves admitted they could not bear.
****

Scripture states His laws are not grievous YET you claim it is a yoke 1John 5:3, Matt 19:17, Rev 14:12\\

St. Peter is the one who called it a yoke., not I. Read Acts 15:10.

The Kashuroth were among the Mosaic laws, Rhonda.

Either Christ fulfilled ALL the law, and therefore it was ALL abolished--or else we are still in our sins.
---Cluny on 10/20/10


which of the Apostles and Elders of Jerusalem ordered you to disturb people's souls by your insisting on imposing a yoke that they themselves admitted they could not bear.
****

Scripture states His laws are not grievous YET you claim it is a yoke 1John 5:3, Matt 19:17, Rev 14:12

YOKE was mosaic laws Col 2:14 and by golly wouldn't you know GIVEN by MEN Christ ABOLISHED ordinances or ritualistic laws Heb 9:10, Gal 2:16 the duties works and labor required by 600+ mosaic laws
...foolishly these civil laws were reasoned to be used to OBEY Gods Spiritual Laws ...ironically deceived believe Christ allows one to sin because Christ "keeps all those Spiritual laws people can't - absurd seeing it contradicts Holy Scripture
---Rhonda on 10/18/10


I've noticed that you have NOT answered my question about which of the Apostles and Elders of Jerusalem ordered you to disturb people's souls by your insisting on imposing a yoke that they themselves admitted they could not bear.
-Cluny 10/18/10

easy answer:

1: Acts 15:1 circumcised
2: Acts 15:5 circumcise
3: Acts 15:24 circumcised
4: Acts 21:21 circumcise
5: 1 Corinthians 7:18 circumcised
6: Galatians 2:3 circumcised
7: Galatians 5:2 circumcised
8: Galatians 5:3 circumcised
9: Galatians 6:12 circumcised
10: Galatians 6:13 circumcised

10 times this is addressed in the New testement, all ten times it is the very same thing CIRCUMCISED. now why do you want to add anything alse to that?
---francis on 10/18/10


Yes we should live by Gods word, the scriptures daily. in the way we talk, our actions,everything.
---candice on 10/18/10


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10 times this issue is mentioned in the NT, ten out of ten times it is limited only to circumcision.

example this is luke: Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

this is paul:Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Don't just add anything to circumcision. Add any other BLOOD SACRIFICE or BLOOD COVENANT because that is what circumcision is:

Exodus 4:26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband [thou art], because of the circumcision.
---francis on 10/18/10


1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
---micha9344 on 10/18/10


\\After all roaches and shrimp are made up of the same material.
---francis on 10/18/10\\

Same DNA as make up cattle, chicken, and fish. Right.

But I've noticed that you have NOT answered my question about which of the Apostles and Elders of Jerusalem ordered you to disturb people's souls by your insisting on imposing a yoke that they themselves admitted they could not bear.

Answer my question--and maybe I'll answer yours.

Fair enough?
---Cluny on 10/18/10


Some of yu claim that God / jesus made all things clean, but you really do not believe that.

If you really did, you would treasure a conoly of roaches in your house, that would be meat for a week. After all roaches and shrimp are made up of the same material.
---francis on 10/18/10


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Cluny
Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Before there was a jewish nation. GOD commanded clean and unclean

Genesis 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

and commanded that no man eat swine
Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

If you were served mice, roach, or fly in your soup, would you eat it, seeing you think all animals are clean to be eaten?
---francis on 10/17/10


\\Pork pork and selfish are not there, neither is anything aganst men sleeping with men, is that OK for gentiles?\\

That might well be covered under "porneia", the word the KJV renders as "fornication" but actually means "prostitution."

Doubtless it could be extended to what is morally on the the level of prostitution.

But answer us this question, francis:

Who gave YOU the commandment and authorization to disturb people's souls, saying they are under the dietary restrictions of the Law of Moses--when you turn right around and make up "thou shalt not drink" and try to impose that on others, too?
---Cluny on 10/17/10


PROVERBS 7,1 My son ,keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.

JOHN 14,23 JESUS answered and said unto him, IF a man love me, he will keep my words,and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him and make out abode with him.

REVELATION 1,3 BLESSED is HE that readeth, and they that HEAR THE WORDS of this prophecy,and KEEP those things which are WRITTEN, There in for the time is at hand
---RICHARD on 10/17/10


Act 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
---micha9344 on 10/17/10


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---Cluny on 10/17/10
why did paul circumcise timothy?

Acts 16:3 because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
Galatians 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

Pork pork and selfish are not there, neither is anything aganst men sleeping with men, is that OK for gentiles?

and what I am saying is that in christ there is no ethnic group no jew or greek
all are ONE.
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
---FRANCIS on 10/17/10


\\Now lets look at your post: Have you seen anywherte after the death of Jesus that any Jew was required to be circumcized?\\

Yes. Paul circumcised Timothy.

\\And did you not see in ACT 15 the dietary restrictions on things strangled, anbd blood?\\

Pork and shellfish are NOT among those things to be avoided. And "blood" in this case means violent behavior, as "blood" frequently is used in the Bible.

\\Have you seen anything in the NT that makes a seperation anong christians by ethnic group?\\

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you?
---Cluny on 10/17/10


Acts 15 makes it clear that Gentile Christians need NOT be circumcised (which makes them ineligible to eat the Passover meal, and that they need NOT keep the kashuroth of the OT.
-Cluny on 10/16/10

First you agreed with two of my points that passover and sacrifices were never limited to jews only and that " converted gentiles" could participate. Thanks

Now lets look at your post: Have you seen anywherte after the death of Jesus that any Jew was required to be circumcized?
Have you not read that Jesus is our passover?
And did you not see in ACT 15 the dietary restrictions on things strangled, anbd blood?

Have you seen anything in the NT that makes a seperation anong christians by ethnic group?
---francis on 10/17/10


francis, you've given great examples of how a text without a context is a pretext.

\\OT:
Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. \\

Here the context is concerning who is allowed to eat the Passover with Jews--and it's saying they have to be circumcised.

\\Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you. \\

Here the context is about sacrifices offered by Gentiles: they must be according to the laws given elsewhere.

Acts 15 makes it clear that Gentile Christians need NOT be circumcised (which makes them ineligible to eat the Passover meal, and that they need NOT keep the kashuroth of the OT.
---Cluny on 10/16/10


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Cluny on 10/15/10

what you say is very different from what the BIBLE says.

OT:
Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

NT:
Ephesians 2:19 ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

Romans 10:12 There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all..

Romans 3:22 for there is no difference:

Ephesians 2:14..hath made both one..

Acts 10:34 Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
---francis on 10/16/10


\\unfortunately, there are many who seem to believe that God has changed his word to accomodate none hebrews.
---francis on 10/15/10\\

francis, can you grasp the difference between your staement and this fact: "Many of the commandments of the OT NEVER applied to Gentiles"?

Even an Orthodox Jew will tell you that the dietary kashuroth were not for the Gentiles.

Or do you somehow feel spiritually superior to others by your observance of them?
---Cluny on 10/15/10


Psalms 119:105 Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

If we truely trust God we follow every word,

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL MEANS ALL, NONE CAN BE LEFT OUT WHEN IT COMES TO RIGHTEOUS LIVING
---francis on 10/15/10


Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God?

YES
unfortunately, there are many who seem to believe that God has changed his word to accomodate none hebrews.
---francis on 10/15/10


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Yes-the Word of God is life.
As our mind is renewed with His Word-our word in comparison means nothing.
What ever we believed and lived for-if it was not the truth-it is exposed.
God confirms His Word-Himself.
Holy Spirit within us.
---char on 9/28/10


Debbie, Why did you leave out the most important part of John 1:1? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." It doesn't say, "... was a god," as JW's teach. Jesus Christ was/is God, come in flesh, not a man who became in-dwelt by God, but very God of very God.
---tommy3007 on 2/3/08


I don't get the question.
---Okebaram on 2/3/08


God's word is LIFE. God spoke and it happened. Jesus was God and we are supposed to imitate Christ. We should be speaking His words, God's words...and using the life and death power of the tongue. Bread only edifies our personal body. We can edify others with our words. ie rather than saying I'm trying to catch a cold..say I am fighting off this cold with God's help. Change the way we speak and think to glorify God
---Amy on 6/12/06


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Tom2, that was a great answer. I am with you bro. The more we read, the more we grow in Spirit and knowledge of God, the more faith we will have. Faith comes from God the more we read the more that faith will increase. The more faith increases, the more we become dependent on Him. The more dependent we are of Him, the less we become dependent on ourselves.
---Lupe2618 on 6/12/06


We live by faith not by sight, and how does faith come? by believing God, and believing God by hearing the word.so you see it,s a circle. hear the word to believe , believe and you have faith which allows you to believe more which gives you more faith and on and on and on.
---tom2 on 6/11/06


The word that Jesus was doing was Fasting, like the Israelites did 40 years in the wilderness, to be humbled and tested of God to see whether he would keep God's commandments. Please read Deuteronomy 8:1-10; Matthew 17:14-21.
---Eloy on 5/23/06


Yes, we should live by the Word of God.
---Sally on 5/23/06


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without a doubt
---tom on 5/21/06


What is the question? Could someone re-word it please?
---Donna2277 on 5/20/06


This is an awsome example of satan talking fleshly and Jesus talking spiritually. Satan knew Jesus was hungry and tempted him, yet Jesus was not talking about the fleshly life...he was talking spiritual life. Satan is all about satisfying the flesh yet Jesus is all about the spiritual.
---BoDilly on 5/19/06


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