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Capital Punishment And Abortion

Do you believe in capital punishment? Do you believe abortion is murder? Do you believe people that have abortions should suffer capital punishment?

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 ---mima on 5/20/06
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Both parties are wrong on both issues. We don't take another life unless it's in the midst of protecting or saving another life. A government has a right to use just enough force to prevent further attacks like we did in Afghanistan. Individually, it is a different matter. The death penalty doesn't take into account repentance, mercy or forgiveness. That doesn't mean we let murderers out, it means we demonstrate better character than them. It's when we are tested that our true Godly character shines through. Anyone can say kill a killer or let an innocent person live. The last thing is , there is no justice when a person kills multiple people, it doesn't equal out, only God can set things straight.
---stan on 7/7/08


Leon Says: >>Capital punishment? Yes! God gives governments authority to take the life of persons convicted of particularly heinous crimes.

Abortion is murder? Definitely!<<

Since that is true, how should we punish those who practice abortion? The death penalty for only the doctor or the death penalty for the doctor and mother? What about the mother who performs her own abortion with a coat hanger in a society where abortion is illegal? The death penalty for her? While I am very opposed to abortion, I realize we can never legislate morality into existence on this subject. If we try, our courts and prisons would never be able to contain the multitude that would break the law.
---obewan on 7/7/08


What does the bible say about this subject? It doesn't matter what I believe, but what the bible says. I you believe different than what the bible says, you believe wrong.
---Rev_Herb on 7/6/08


ABORTION:1 Corinthians6:19 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you and which ye have from God, and that ye are not your own?
20For ye are bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
So why are woman presuming they can do whatever they want with their body? It's not theirs to begin with! It was borrowed by you is all. Kind of hard to glorify God with His body when you choose to kill what he created inside you.
---Lisa on 8/3/07


1. Capital punishment? Yes! God gives governments authority to take the life of persons convicted of particularly heinous crimes. The death penalty is an instrument designed to deter such ungodly crimes against society.

2. Abortion is murder? Definitely! To selfishly take innocent life displeases God.

3. Capital punishment is ultimately guaranteed to ALL people who do not repent of their sins, i.e., eternal death lst in hell & afterwards in the lake of fire.
---Leon on 7/23/07




God established capital punishment in the covenant with Noah. Last I checked rainbows were still in the sky and the covenant with noah was an everlasting covenant. If God decreed that if you take a life your life should be taken I think it would be wise for governments to follow that.
---Ryan_Z on 7/20/07


... Cont. ...

Also, v. 21 taught that the punishment that would have been applied to the accused is applied to the false witness. If the false witness were guilty only of lying, he would not be executed. Since the false witness himself was to be executed if the original accusation mandated the death penalty, therefore, the Rabbis deduced that he, too, must be guilty of the same sin.

This exegesis doesn't have to be correct, Jesus knew this was their mindset so used it to defeat them.
---Ktisophilos on 7/20/07


... Cont. ...

The "same sin" concept was based on Deuteronomy 19:15-21: contrasts a true and faithful witness vs. a false witness. The rabbis deduced from this passage that in order for one to truly be a faithful witness, he, himself, could not be guilty of the same sin to which the accused is accused of. From v. 21, "life for life, eye for eye, etc.," the rabbis argued that false witness, was guilty of the sin that he was accusing someone else of.
---Ktisophilos on 7/20/07


Ed - "God has the right to decide who should live and who should die."

And He has, by commanding capital punishment for murderers in the Noahic Covenant (Gen. 9:6). This has never been revoked, otherwise we would have ne assurance that God won't send us another global flood.
---Ktisophilos on 7/20/07


Ed - "And biblical reference against Capital Punisment 'Let He without sin, cast the first stone'."

Not at all, because the NT continues to mandate capital punishment. E.g. Paul teaches in Rom. 13 that the government does not bear the sword in vain. This was a metaphor for its power to use lethal force.
---Ktisophilos on 7/20/07




... Cont. ...

Also, note that this pericope adulterae was about an evil trap Jesus' enemies had set for him. If he said "execute", then they could turn Him over to the Romans for sedition, because they had taken over the right to execute. If he said "don't", they would have accused Him of denying Moses. Jesus' reply cleverly evaded this trap.
---Ktisophilos on 7/20/07


... Cont. ...

And in the Jewish context, Jesus was not saying that sinlessness is required to execute (otherwise government could not exist), but that the witnesses could not be guilty of the same sin they were accusing the defendant of.

Since she was caught in the act, where was the man? Under the Law of Moses, both the man and the women were sentenced to death. Looks like he was one of the accusers! So Jesus evaded the trap using the Mosaic Law against His enemies.
---Ktisophilos on 7/20/07


Capital Punishment breaks one of the Ten Commandments so it is not Christian.

Abortion breaks one of the Ten Commandments also so neither abortion nor Capital Punishment can be supported by a Christian.

To support either is to lose Salvation until one repents.
---Brenda2 on 7/20/07


MP, use a modern translation. "One of the 10 commandments is Thou Shalt Not Kill." The modern versions correctly have "do not murder", which is an accurate translation of the Hebrew ratsach. The KJV mistranslation makes the Bible contradict itself, because the next few chapters of Exodus clearly mandate capital punishment and rules for warfare.
---Ktisophilos on 7/20/07


MP, "turn the other cheek" was a rule for individuals. But rules for civil magistrates are different: Paul said the government does not bear the sword in vain (Rom. 13).

Similarly, a Christian president or prime minister has no right to turn the cheeks of his people in the face of a ruthless aggressor. Rather, he must sometimes command lethal force, as per the war against Hitler. Indeed, if force were used earlier, Hitler would have backed down and WW2 averted.
---Ktisophilos on 7/20/07


'Capital punishment may be necessary in some cases' - only God has the right to decide who should live and who should die.
---Ed on 7/20/07


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And biblical reference against Capital Punisment 'Let He without sin, cast the first stone'.
---Ed on 7/20/07


I am opposed to both capital punishment and elective abortion.

Euthanasia, too, while we're at it.

It's all part of my weak efforts to have a consisted life ethic.
---Jack on 7/20/07


Very right,Okebaram. Everyone should take a few glances over leviticus.They're not for today. A town should kill a cow at a river for an unsolved murder,no patching clothing, no mixing woven/unwoven fabrics. Are we going to jail people for their outfit?(the really hideous ones maybe)Even 19, the "anti-gay one", the very next verse tells you to beat unruly children,stone severely bad ones.Remember that in the NT, all laws stem from the one law of "Love" Love your God,love your neighbor.
---Elliott on 7/28/06


Amen Okebaram!!! Excellent point about the woman at the well and GRACE.
---christina on 5/25/06


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Dont forget that Christ wrote something on the ground when he said let the one without sin cast the first stone. Probably because they were not following the law. Adultry is a sin between 2 people and they were supposed to punish both. So where was the man? All of them had probably been with her so they all should have been stoned with her. That is why they didnt stone her. Jesus possibly wrote "where is the man" or something like that.
---chris on 5/25/06


Once my answers would have been yes, yes and no. Last answer would still be no. No space to address abortion, but capital punishment, I wonder. It's been "proved" to be a deterrent only in places like the Middle East..where the punishment is swift, sure and the "criminal" may, or may not be guilty. Death row is costly, rehab is a joke, but DNA now vindicates more inmates. Don't think death penalty is unbiblical if guilt is undeniable. I'd like to see more "hard time", though
---Donna2277 on 5/25/06


I'm not saying that we don't needs laws or punishment for crimminal behavior, I'm saying that we need to use a different form of punishment. Jesus came to teach us a different way to live; the OT teaching is 'eye for an eye' which leads to further violence. NT teaching 'love your enemy' dosen't mean let them get away with error, but use another method of punishment, a compassionate one. If you murder someone because they murdered someone, the cycle continues. Violence+violence=more violence.
---Grace on 5/25/06


A lot of you quote the OT to support capital punishment; but aren't you forgetting what dispensation we are in, or should we still murder people for practising witchcraft and adultery?
Didn't Jesus stop the woman who commited adultery from being stoned?
Capital punishment may be necessary in some cases as decided by the government, but most of the time, grace is better...but we don't make these rules do we?
---Okebaram on 5/25/06


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I believe the scriptures that record the words of Jesus who said, "Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone."

In any case, NT trumps the Old.

If it didn't there would be no hope for ANY of us.
---Jack on 5/25/06


Donna,
Paul was a murderer but he was not put to death. (He stood by and watched the the cloaks of those stoning Stephen Acts 7:58 and was complicit in his murder Acts 8:1. He was zealous in his persecution of the Church (Acts 8:3, Phil 3:6). No doubt he was responsible for the deaths of many Christians.
---Bruce5656 on 5/25/06


I believe scripture that says: "If you shed a man's blood, your blood shall be shed." Judas was responsible for Jesus being crucified (he allowed the devil to use him) so God allowed Judas to die, right? or am I missing something? I think I'm going to get creamed for this answer.
---Donna9759 on 5/25/06


Personally I do not believe in capital punishment --- Jesus died on the Cross for all sinners and we are living in the age of grace. Abortion is definitely murder -- the instant a baby is conceived that baby is alive albeit an embryo. And no, no, no I do not believe that anyone should suffer capital punishment --- God is the giver and taker of life, not man ... it is man's role to punish only, but not to kill.
---Helen_5378 on 5/25/06


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That is fine Grace, I am not trying to teach you. The Word is sufficient for that. But, from your point of view we would have absolutely no law and order. To love your neighbor as yourself would be enough, if the secular followed that as well. We would have a world of peace. But that is not the case so God gave us rule to declare law and punish when needed. God ordains rulers to be a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. read Romans 13:1-5
---chris on 5/25/06


When I was in my mother growing she had an appendec. When the doctor saw she was pj it was really to late into the surgery. He figured she would "pass" me and would never know the difference. I did not pass and I am grateful that she wasn't put in the posistion to choose as, I am sure she would have gave her life for mine. I thank the Lord!!! I can't even imagin my life without her and I am so grateful the Lord is in control.
---Alexandra on 5/24/06


Grace, Then do you believe in literal considereing time period & cultural context? I believe that is more truly literal... than just pulling scripture out and putting today's "literal" twist on it.
---daphn8897 on 5/24/06


Daphne8897.......I was referring to a literal interpretation of Biblical scripture. For instance, if you said " I am in a pickle.." you would understand it to mean that you are in a predicament or have a problem. However, for someone from another time/culture, if taken literally, the phrase would mean something entirely different. I cannot agree that God sanctions us to kill others on the basis of their behavior. God will take care of the punishment!
---Grace on 5/24/06


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Grace, "when a literal translation of the Bible goes against what God has taught me, I go with the teaching of God." God does not contradict Himself. So, if someone or something tells you something contrary to the Word of God, that someone or something is WRONG. If you don't use His written Word as the standard, you are trusting in your own understanding which is flawed at best. I submit to you that you are on very dangerous ground.
---daphn8897 on 5/24/06


Chris....when a literal translation of the Bible goes against what God has taught me, I go with the teaching of God. I do agree with the scripture that Josef has written from Romans; it clearly defines our responsbility and Gods responsibility. We do not have the right to determine who should die; this is God's responsibility. And, all sin, including murder, will be accounted for through God.
---Grace on 5/24/06


Thats right Mike, but Jesus was referring to Mosaic law, not American law. It's not in our law books... Now, go over in the Middle East and curse your Mother or Father and you will be stoned, probably to death.
---chris on 5/24/06


Capital punishment NO, Gods Judgement YES. It is the govenment that confuses the society by giving the rights to children to openly have premarital sex, and legalise abortion in every concievable way, and we as Christians get caught up in the worlds way of controlling birth, because of selfish reasons, Children are a blessing not a curse. As a married Christian couple we have a choices. life and death are in our own hands and so are the consequences of some of them.
---Carla5754 on 5/24/06


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Only the Father can give life, who are we to determine whose life should be taken? (Rom. 12:17,19) "Recompense to no man evil for evil....It is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord". No crime goes unpunished. (2 Cor. 5:10) "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
---josef on 5/24/06


2 here say no, one, Cris says yes,"He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." My goodness, lots of gass chambers to build.
---MikeM on 5/23/06


Grace, Jesus never disobeyed or taught against the Law (death penalty). He said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill" -Matt.5:17
He supports the death penalty: "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." Matthew 15:3-4
---chris on 5/23/06


Capital Punishment is based on the OT, eye for an eye mentality. This is contradictory to the teachings of Jesus. Furthermore, capital punishment is based on the fear of death. In our current society, death is considered the end, and therefore, we are frightened of it and many fear it as unknown. I do not believe in capital punishment, I think we are actually setting a murdurer free; he does not have the opportunity to live with the reality of what he has done.
---Grace on 5/23/06


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MikeM, Your question isn't really relevant biblically. We all deserve death. It is by grace through the cross of Jesus, and grace alone that we don't get what we deserve. So, if it were a capital crime to have an abortion, I would rather pay my taxes to keep them alive that they might hear the Gospel. Since it is not... the point is moot.
---daphn8897 on 5/23/06


MikeM, I have no idea what you're asking.
---chris on 5/23/06


So someone with the courage of there conviction, those who call abortion murder, should those who have them be executed???
---MikeM on 5/23/06


I do believe abortion is murder. I also believe capital punishment is biblical. However, mercy and grace are also biblical. If we put a man or woman to death for a crime, there is no more chance to bring them to Christ. I think folks forget that without Jesus we are all worthy of death. My emotions would oft say... kill... my spirit says mercy...
---daphn8897 on 5/23/06


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No doubt that it will not happen. I agree with that Mike... kinda lets you know the scale of the problem when it involves the majority of the planet. They will be held responsible for it when they die, hopefully some of them have come to know Christ since then.
---chris on 5/23/06


If abortion becomes civil law then thousands, tens of 1000's would have to be killed, perhaps more than in China, which has the highest amount of people executed for capitol crimes, North Korea is second. We need politicians AND a public that fears God, as a law alone will mean nothing. It would not could not be enforcable. Not enough courts, cops, judges, jails or gas chambers to enfoce such a law. We have neither the mandate from the public or politicians to outlaw abortions, so it will not happen.
---MikeM on 5/22/06


Lets make a law that says "No sex outside of marriage". This is where most of the abortions come into effect (I think?). It might still be a topic but, not such a on-going one. Awnser to question....no, yes, no.
---Alexandra on 5/22/06


The death penalty sets a standard saying, we are not going to tolerate such actions and here is what happens to those who perform them. It is meant to detour those who are thinking about committing such actions. Aborters and their helpers are guilty of murder and deserve capitol punishment. If a person kills a woman with child they are tried for 2 murders. Why should abortion be different? The Mod and Herb got it right.
---chris on 5/22/06


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the Mosaic Law very strongly supported the death penalty and Jesus never once disobeyed the law or taught against it, so why should we? He said Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill -Matt.5:17 Also: But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. Matthew 15:3-4
---chris on 5/22/06


Woaw! Rev. Herb!
---Okebaram on 5/22/06


I doubt anyone will give a straight answer to the actual question. Some say abortion is murder, then what do we do with murderers? One cannot call abortion murder, and support capitol punisment and then say they won't kill abortion doctors, or the women who have them, its a moral inconsistancy a mile wide. If children, 2 or 3 were being killed in a building would intelligent people limit their outrage to protest signs and letters to congressmen? This shows the hypocrasy.
---MikeM on 5/22/06


Rev Herbs statement is incorrect, "If there were more capital punishment there would be less crime" No evidence exist to back that up. I believe in Capitol punishment for justice, nothing more. The Bible does appear to waffle on this, Blood for Blood, mercy and so on. But my vote is for Justice.

Moderator - Look at the reduced crime rate in the Middle East where if you steal you lose your hand.
---MikeM on 5/22/06


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Christ did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill the law.

If there were more capital punishment there would be less crime.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever, At least that is what I am told when it comes to speaking in tongues. Why does it not work for capital punishment?
---Rev_Herb on 5/22/06


I do not believe in capital punishment. The O.T. says 'an eye for an eye', the N.T. says 'turn the other cheek'. Some of the O.T. laws are over-ridden by Christ, some are still applicable. One of the 10 commandments is Thou Shalt Not Kill. I think that abortion is murder but I do not think that it should be punishable by the death penalty. In fact, how can we punish it AT ALL when in many countries it is now considered to be legal? "Vengeance is mine" says the Lord, we have to leave it to Him.
---M.P. on 5/21/06


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