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What Is The Shroud Of Turin

Is the shroud of turin the bonafide cloth used to wrap Jesus' dead body, a man-made, artistic scam or a demonic deception? I don't think it's trully Jesus' face.

Moderator - Scam.

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I believe that it has already been established that this cannot be genuine because of the way the cloth would have had to be folded. With the image the way it is it would have had to be wrapped over the body from head to foot, not around the body. The head to foot method of wrapping the dead was not used until much later, so I am told.
---M.P. on 11/5/08


I am not a scientist but I have eyes. I wish they could explain the lack of distance between the front of the image and the back. I placed a blanket on my head there was an 8in gap of where my face would have touched the front and where my head would have touched the back. Looking at the photoss there is less than 2in. This is also depicted in most of the artwork. I do not doubt that there was one at some time in the past. I would just like someone to explain this lack of distance.
---LaShawn_Pulkoski on 10/2/07


lorra - I've watched a few shows about it and think that it probably is real. The NASA - scientists did research on it and it shows a three dimensional image. They can not find any evidence of paint or a known stain.
For obvious reasons it can be dangerous to put faith in an icon.
Someone can make one - show fake healings and draw people off - that doesn't negate the real ones.
---Andrea on 9/12/07


RitaH, I love the internet, but there are a lot of hoaxes that start by clever fools and get repeated by other fools who do not bother to check their facts (not directed at you, just the ones who build more websites based on false info.).

Even here I have seen numerous references to internet frauds - I yet to see an actual Latin Title for the Pope on this site, yet many willing to link bogus titles to 666.
---lorra8574 on 9/11/07


Andrea, something to ponder, while it does not matter to me if the shroud is real or not, those that have worked with the shroud have been affected by it, and if I recall correctly, it has even brought some of those unbelieving scientists back into the fold.

Atheists really hate it when they cannot explain something with science. Or worse, when science shows them a miracle.
---lorra8574 on 9/11/07




I mentioned this in a previous post but whether this shroud is real or not - I don't know - it very possibly could be genuine.

What I see is that with all the advances in science and science getting more and more anti-christian. Be prepared for phoney evidence to arise that will make even the elect doubt.
We are to stand in faith not proof. satan will use all manner of deceit to turn people away from Christ.
---Andrea on 9/11/07


Well on world news stations they showed the 2 hour special about the Shroud...and it is believable.
but then again...does it make a difference?
I think not. Real or not.
Jesus is real regardless.
---Lisa on 9/11/07


Lorra, thank you for that. I've found that there is about 100 years between the two (the shroud coming first of course). Just shows that I shouldn't believe everything I read on the internet. However, I've done another search on the words Turin Shroud and Da Vinci and it's amazing how many sites say just the same as I said erroneously. I wonder where these stories originate? Thanks for the correction.
---RitaH on 9/11/07


RitaH, Matthew 27:59 (and Mark 15:46) shows Joseph of Arimathaea wrapping Jesus in a single sheet of linen. This was the proper method of burial for that period. In John 20:5-7, there is also mention of a second piece, the napkin that was wrapped about Christ's head - this too is common for that era, but the napkin is not a separate covering but part of what held things together so it might not show anything like the shroud does. It was too inconsequential to mention in the first two descriptions.
---lorra8574 on 9/11/07


Lisa I heard just the opposite i.e. that the cloth could not have been a shroud for Jesus because it is one long piece of material. I am told that it was much later that bodies were wrapped that way - under the body from head to foot the over the body from foot to head - and that Jesus was wrapped in 2 separate cloths.
---RitaH on 9/11/07




The shroud of Turin is suitable for a shop-cloth in most garages when access to a new one is not available.

It would probably soak up oil better than Jack Van Impe's sermon notes and cue-cards.

It may even be more anointed than Benny Hinn's entire minstry when soaked in 30 weight racing oil.


Frank
---Frank on 9/11/07


Welcome back Sis Morgan. Hope you will not pay any attention to the demonic forces that always pop up whenever good work is at hand. Whenever there is GOOD, there is EVIL attempting to destroy it. We must not let it happen. TkS for comming back!!!Love you! Jody:)
---jody_jmartin on 9/11/07


Thanks for the kind words, Augusta. I've been reading the blogs daily, ever since I came on CN(late July 2006),but don't post as much anymore, though. My son has started 1st grade, and I'm home schooling him again, that will take up a lot of my time, along with other responsibilities. If you have a penpal, please drop me a line or two once in a while. Nice to hear from you too, Augusta! God Bless You!
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/11/07


RitaH, the Shroud of Turin has been around for centuries before DaVinci. Do you suppose that perhaps he copied the face for Jesus from the Shroud? He would have seen it before making that painting.

I do not know that the shroud is authentic, or if it belongs to Jesus, but I have seen nothing to suggest that it wasn't. And this is an item that would have been kept.
---lorra8574 on 9/11/07


Glad to hear you're doing well, Mrs. Morgan. I wondered what happened to you.

Blessings,

augusta
---augusta on 9/11/07


it is one big lie: Satan like to have us believe this nonsense..dont believe it...
---jana on 9/11/07


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I saw the scientific study on the shroud of Turin. And they did prove there is a high possibility the Shroud is real of Jesus.
Moderator, are you a scientist?
---Lisa on 9/11/07


Jack, take a look at the cloth and note where the samples were cut for the carbon dating. From the beginning it was obvious that they had taken the samples from the patches added to the shroud after parts of it was burned in a fire. Historically, the fire occurred at about the time that the carbon dating is supposed to date the shroud. A recent article on the subject raised this matter and it was acknowledged that the samples were cut from the patches.
---lorra8574 on 9/10/07


(4.)Let me also say, that I am a "real" person, never used another name on the blogs, for ANY reason. I have had a new penpal name for several months now. If anyone would like to penpal me you can reach me at: "keeta9339". I have met several wonderful people using the penpal feature.
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/10/07


(3.) I would also like to point out that I haven't posted since 9 2 07(other than today, for obvious reasons given in posts 1 & 2), -and- that CN has an Automated System, that randomly "bumps up" and re-posts the last posts on old blogs to revive them, this has been confusing to some. I just wanted to point that out, and say that CN confirmed that. Some figured that out, but not all, thinking many posts were 1st time posts.
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/10/07


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The face on the shroud looks exactly like the face in Leonardo Da Vinci's self portrait. It was probably painted on the cloth by him. The reason that people think it really is Jesus is because we have been brainwashed into thinking that some people knew exactly what Jesus looked like and, apart from those who personally knew Him, no-one does know what He looked like. It's all in the imagination. I'm looking forward to finding out though.
---RitaH on 9/10/07


(2.)The post below, about "a shroud", wasn't from me. Either there is another Mrs. Morgan, or someone is being deceitful, if it's true, that some devilish person purposely hijacked my name, You must realize this(if you can): That's Your Testimony...Lies/Deceit (2 Timothy 3:12-13). All I can say is: Oh Well,the devil is working hard(he knows his time is limited) , But God is pouring down His grace and knowledge on those who really want Him (2 Peter 3:10-18). Amen!
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/10/07


It is really a beautiful face on the Shroud. Perhaps it is the face of our Lord. I have a picture of it in my home.

But anyone who worships it is worshiping the Devil. Most likely a Calvinist, too.
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/10/07


hooey on science jack. Bible said Jesus was wrapped in two cloths. there's the only proof needed
---r.w. on 8/5/06


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The R/C dating was inconclusive; some believe that the procedure was flawed. It certainly conflicts with a lot of other evidence on the cloth.

But then, didn't all the miracles of Christ in the Bible stir up controversy and defy scientific categorizing?

It's only because of faith in Christ that the Shroud would have any significance whatsoever. In and of itself, it proves nothing. There is no scientific test for the one-time presence of Jesus wrapped up in a cloth.
---Jack on 7/28/06


Just another catholic idol. Carbon dating showed it to be medievel approxamately 1300AD. Though it poses many questions it has no conclusion. Catholic history and practices are rought with idol worship. This is no different. Christ said "it is finished" on the cross. Mark 13:23 Jesus tells us "Behold, I have told you all things". The bible we hold in our hands is complete and without error. The catholic church is in great error. Don't take your eyes off the finished work of Christ.
---Robert on 7/27/06


I personally do not believe the shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus. I have many reasons and would rather read everyone else's than contribute. I have one thought on it that may sound silly. Everyone wants cloning and the Bible says an ant-christ will arise. Wouldn't DNA from this cloth make a good likeness for satan to step right into to deceive the world? Looks like Jesus and would send people straight to hell. The Lord could use that to take the wise in their own craftiness.
---Shari on 7/24/06


right nellah he had some kind of fetish imagining himself a woman hence the mona lisa
---r.w. on 7/24/06


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Is it really Leonardo? I'm not surprised if it is. The man was a genius. He's the Mona Lisa so he could be the man on the shroud.
---Nellah on 7/22/06


the person on the shroud is Leonardo da Vinci. check the noses and the other facial features
---r.w. on 7/21/06


The bible says that when Jesus was crucified they also pulled out His beard.

And the man in the shroud (if it is a real man) has a beard.
---eric on 6/18/06


Jack:

John 20:5 mentions "linen cloths" not a shroud being folded in the tomb. Scripture, not tradition is our only source for truth. Please re-read it if you doubt me.

Therefore it is bogus. Like mod said, a scam.
---John_T on 5/29/06


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If the burial rites were completed, why were the women coming with the usual funeral ointments on that Resurrection morning, pray tell?
---Jack on 5/27/06


Jack, that is very wrong. Jesus was placed in a tomb by Joseph of arimatheas (spelling?). It wasn't rushed, and Mary wasn't coming to finish up his wrapping; she wasn't involved in that at all; she was coming to anoint his body with spices as is the Jewish custom to their dead, a thing they do repeatedly.
---Okebaram on 5/27/06


John T: Don't forget, the initial placing of Christ's body in the tomb was a rushed and incompleted job. The whole purpose of the women appearing on Resurrection morning was to finish it up.
---Jack on 5/27/06


Jack, I'm not prejudice against RC,I made sure I said no matter the denomination I don't believe in objets/relics as things to make holy or venerate. No one really knows what formed the Shroud,experts don't even know. One says one thing, another something else. I said with paint pigments on it,it proves to me,having a Degree in Art, at one time paint was applied in some way. Effect achieved in modern times by doing so. The bottom line,no one can say it is Jesus or His shroud. Just speculation.
---Darlene_1 on 5/26/06


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According to Scripture, and Jewish tradition Jesus' body was WRAPPED with strips of cloth, just like his "diaper" in the manger.

Jesus was WRAPPED just like Lazarus was. That is why Jesus told the men to "unloose" him as he came from the grave. The shroud is a full, one-piece sheet, and thus CAN NOT be a "wrapper" for Jesus body.

John20:5 mentions "linen cloths" not a shroud being folded in the tomb.

Therefore it is bogus. Like mod said, a scam.
---John_T on 5/26/06


Why bother about proving the shroud is genuine if you believe He has risen.

Shouldn't we Christians should look forward than to look backward and start to arouse the curiousity for proof and arguement?

We do not live in that era and all we need to do is to have faith.
---jas on 5/26/06


In other words, Darlene, you cannot substantiate what you said, or even give a clear source for why you said it.
---Jack on 5/26/06


Darlene, It's nice to see how open-minded you are and do not have a single ounce of anti-catholic prejudice anywhere near you.

The RC Church has NEVER officially claimed that the Shroud is indeed the Shroud of Christ (as anyone who has done serious reading on the subject would know).

STURP--the Shroud of Turin Research Project--made up most of Protestants and Jews who actaully SAW the cloth and handled it in 1978 all say there's no way the image was made by human means.
---Jack on 5/26/06


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Some say it's real. Some say it's a scam. Use the search engine google.com to find literature regarding the Shroud of Turin.
---Raine on 5/26/06


There have been articles in the news recently showing how perfectly the face of Jesus in Leonardo da Vinci's portrait The Salvator Mundi fits the face on the shroud and many think that it is actually the face of L. da. V himself. Look it up on the net. According to what I have read, the shroud first appeared on Good Friday 1494 when L.da V. was 42 years old so perhaps a very unusual self portrait is what it is. He would have fully understood the controversy that would come about from this.
---M.P. on 5/26/06


Jack,here it is again. Art,painting,pigments of color. I don't remember all the details it was a while back. I would never accept any information from the Catholic Church since they are the ones who venerate the shroud as a relic to begin with,therefore,anything they report is skewed to prove what they want it too. I would feel the same of any other Denomination,it's just common sense that the one who has it, promotes to their beliefs. Bible says be gentle as a lamb,"wise" as a serpent.
---Darlene_1 on 5/25/06


Darlene, just what method did this man use to duplicate the way the image was made on the shroud?

According to the STURP team, who actually examined it, the image is formed by oxidation of the outermost crest of the fibrils of the cloth.

Not by pigment.

Not by photography.
---Jack on 5/25/06


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2/.... Also God commands that no images be made. So if the Shroud were real God would then be breaking one of His own commandments, which God being God cannot do. There is ample evidence in Scripture to support that the Shroud is a total fake.
---Helen_5378 on 5/25/06


The Shroud of Turin is a fake. Isaiah 52:14 "So His visage was marred more than any man...". Isaiah 50:6 tells us that Jesus beard was plucked out from His face. Jesus was totally unrecognisable, so badly beaten and bruised that He did not even look human any more. Scripture paints a very grim picture of Jesus opposed to the Shroud of Turin which shows a "perfect" face. I find it interesting that the Catholic Church has the Shroud.... it has always been full of fake relics.
---Helen_5378 on 5/25/06


Jack, man was trying to find if effect on the shroud could be duplicated by artistic methods. He proved, it can. I don't think a form/statue was involved,just art. That coupled with the fact the shroud does have some paint pigments on it shows it isn't a supernatural happening. It wasn't a photographic process. God is not the author of confussion, and that is all the shroud has brought,that tells me it's not of God. Anything that distracts from spiritual faith in Jesus alone without objects isn't of God.
---Darlene_1 on 5/25/06


Darlene--did he actually handle the ORIGINAL Shroud of Turn as well?

Or did he just come up with a way that he thought the Shroud was made.

What process did he use?

If it was a photographic process involving a camera obscura, where are other examples of images made with this process?

For that matter, the statute used to form the image would itself be a great work of art. What became of it?
---Jack on 5/25/06


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Jack, sorry but there was a man on TV that showed the process which he used and completely duplicated how the image looks on the shroud. The results of his method were amazing. Never say never. When you have people who have inquiring minds and the tools and talent to go with them almost anything is possible. Shroud could be done by a smart artist,no doubt left.
---Darlene_1 on 5/24/06


Part 2--I might add that only those who have not personally examined the cloth are those who say the image was produced by human means.

STURP members (many of whom were Protestant and Jewish and were pre-disposed to dismiss the Shroud after 5 minutes examination) all agree that there is no human means by which the image could be put on the cloth, even today.
---Jack on 5/24/06


The radio-carbon dating of the Shroud says Middle Ages. All other tests says First Century.

But is this inconsitistency not typical of Christ's miracles? Those in the Gospel defied (and still defy) scientific categorization as well.

Question: Why would the devil give such an accurate depiction of the wounds by which he was defeated?
---Jack on 5/24/06


The Shroud was tested and found to be from the Middle Ages. It isn't old enough to have been used on Christ. Some who want it to be real reject the test but thats what people do when they venerate an object as a holy relic. It probably was never intended to be considered as anything but a clever work of art by a man. The Catholic Church elevates relics and it is interesting it was found in a Catholic Church. People need to throw away all the "things",get back to basics,Jesus and faith.
---Darlene_1 on 5/24/06


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cont
1/ The man on the shroud is naked, and noone ever portrayed the Lord naked.
2/ The details are annatomically correct, to level unheard of for many centuries.
3/ In keeping with Jewish practice of the period, 1stAD, the man has a ponytail.
---mike8384 on 5/24/06


If its a scam, I'm not sure who gains by it. It can't be Satan, as it builds up faith in the Ressurection.
It's not the RCC, they have spent to much time discrediting it. The C14 tests were a sham, I watched the cutting on TV. They took samples into a backroom for 10 minutes and then brought them out in the containers. Legally the chain of evidence was broken. For it to be a madieval forgery, some one ha to to discover the principles of photography, and break all the canons of art at the time.
---mike8384 on 5/24/06


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