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Should Bush Tap Our Telephones

Should President Bush have the ability to tap our telephone conversations even if we should not be profiled as a potential problem.

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 ---Alan on 6/9/06
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Neither Bush nor any other head of state has the right to invade the private communications between and among the citizens. What is significant about the various comments, is that the claim of Godliness has very little influence on the thoughts we think.
---Janze on 4/18/08

I have nothing to hide, So, if it will help save Lives, I don't care what they do!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 4/18/08

No, no President should have the ability to tap a private citizen's phone calls. This is just putting a weapon in the hands of the future Antichrist that he can use against those who are saved after the Rapture.
---Allison on 4/18/08

I suppose that a monkey would agree to wire taps if it was only used against those who needed the phone to plot the monkeys own death. But then monkeys don't murder their own children either. What's wrong with those monkeys?
---frank on 4/18/08

Mark_V: (4)

The American constitution forbids self-incrimination, unlawfuls search and siezure, cruel and unusual punishment (like torture), etc. Sure, all of these things make life easier for criminals and terrorists - BUT - we have decided that it's better to live with that, than with the alternative.

Sure, we could let the government tap all phones, and torture people to extract confessions, but what kind of country would this be like? It would be like the Dark Ages with electricity.
---StrongAxe on 3/14/08

Mark_V: (5)

To take it to a ridiculous extreme - the easiest way to eliminate 100% of crime would be to kill everyone - that way you would be sure there are no criminals. But surely NOBODY would recommend that. By the same rationale, God chose to let people live on earth (rather than wiping us all out), even though that means there's still sin around. The good will be winnowed from the bad at harvest time.
---StrongAxe on 3/14/08

Mary, my answers to Strongaxe did not all come out right. Since it takes a long time to come out, and I answer him, they get mixed. One was not there anyway which means they might not have liked what I said. I have no control over that, only God has. What was suppose to come out did. Thank you Mary, for answering. God does have it all in hand, and it will be as He has proclaimed it will be. Praise be to God or we would have no hope.
---Mark_V. on 3/14/08

Mark_V: (1)

I was obviously being sarcastic when I suggested posting ID. I was making a point.

If someone is totally innocent ("gentle as doves"), he should have nothing to hide, and
should be fine with making everything public. However, we must still be "wise as serpents", and keep some things secret. People who aren't thieves still lock their doors at night, to protect themselves from others who ARE thieves.
---StrongAxe on 3/14/08

Mark_V: (2)

You said: "Because he is president not because he is Christian. He has the power right now to protect this country anyway he see's fit to do so."

I said his rights as president are given to him by the constitution (not God), so he does not have the right to then ignore it whenever he wants. He swore an oath to uphold it, and he should do so. This has nothing to do with Jesus or Christianity (other than, as a Christian, he should be even MORE inclined to keep his oath).
---StrongAxe on 3/14/08

Mark_V: (3)

As far as "exercising your rights, people can get killed". Yes, that is true. That is a choice that Americans have made. "Innocent until proven guilty" means that it's better for 9 criminals to go free than for one innocent person to be punished. Napoleonic justice (used in France and Mexico) is "guilty until proven innocent. America perfers it the other way around.
---StrongAxe on 3/14/08

There is a BIG difference between our private conversations in our homes and the conversations we make over the PUBLIC airwaves. Our cell phone calls are broadcast for anyone to pick up who has the right equipment. (Our enemies are always listening.) Even our land line calls are relayed by microwave and satellite links. It might be easier to control your own mouth than to control the world!
---jerry6593 on 3/14/08

On the main points, we do agree indeed, Mark V. :) It is God Who will win in the end, no matter what man does or doesn't do--amen. :)
---Mary on 3/13/08

Strongaxe, I heard about your constitutional rights many times. Your arguements in disagreeing are the same arguments I hear from those who oppose Jesus Nature. The more passages I give the uselessness those passages mean to them. Here is a blog that show we don't have to know someone in person to know what side they are on. Oh, the arguments could be on one issue or another, the heart is already set where it wants to go already.
---Mark_V. on 3/13/08

#2. Strongaxe: it doesn't take an engineer to tell who is liberal and who is not. There is thousands of decisions presidents make, and no matter the amount of good they do, people will still find fault then even the good they don't see depending who you like. You speak on the rights of the constitution, as your defense. You tell Jerry to post his ID, social security, and other things to prove your point. What you forget it there is very few Christians out there, and many bad people.
---Mark_V. on 3/13/08

#3. With your argument on the other hand you say, if the goverment is trying to find the terrorist they too have rights. By exercising you rights people can get killed. What about their rights? you want your cake and eat it too. Sin never stops because of our rights. You have one course, follow Christ are follow your rights. I am not making you or trying to force you to see my point. Your mind is set already what you want. The same holds true for the abortionist rights,
---Mark_V. on 3/13/08

#4. it is right to those who believe in the plan of God to defend the nation of Israel. Both sides have something to gain and something to lose, so they will vote their desires. My point is this Mary, no one will change the future that God has seen already. Not one ioda. If they could change what God has seen, then God is not sovereign and not God. You as well as me have to make decisions. The important thing to God is our intend. And our intend should be for the glory of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/13/08

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Hello Mary, you are right, not all liberals are democrates. I meant liberal ideas. All answers given on this blog will come from our desires. We have information to help us dislike or like one over the other. We seem to think we have it all in hand as to why we are really in Iraq. Of course many who dislike Bush will say he is wrong. Some because they are liberal in the first place and don't care about Republicans, some because they have lost a love one.
---Mark_V. on 3/13/08

#2. Wrong to those who heard the pastor from Obama's church who step down just a month ago, who preached condemnation to America in everything, to taking the side of the Palestinians over Israel. Who speaks nothing but radical ideas and everything for Africa, and zero to America, I heard his peaches which came out this moring in ABC world news. He step down but everyone is on fire because of what He has preached already. It will be wrong also for those who are muslim,
---Mark_V. on 3/13/08


He has the power right now to protect the country any way he sees fit to do - WITHIN THE LIMITS GRANTED TO HIM BY THE CONSTITUTION.

In many cases, the Bush administration has taken actions that violated rights granted to the constitution "in the name of safety". Unfortunately, the constitution does not give him the right to make that kind of decision.

When Bush took office, he swore an oath to protect the Constitution, not to protect America.
---StrongAxe on 3/13/08

I like your humour, Billy. But some people would not get it.
---frances008 on 3/12/08

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StrongAxe, fair enough. And thanks to you too. I am not particularly cynical, but I do view a lot of the posts around here as silliness. I am getting some entertainment here though. Blessings to you and yours!
---John1944 on 3/12/08

Hi Mark V, not "all liberals" are democratic of course :) I am not angry at our President because he's republican, I'm angry because he's cost Americans and Iraqis countless lives, and for what?!
---Mary on 3/12/08

Because he is president not because he is Christian. He has the power right now to protect this country anyway he see's fit to do so. All you are doing is giving the rights to those who would commit murder to people in this country. When your president gets in, I will support him in his actions, unless he takes us to Islam. While president he knows more then you or me. The problem with all liberals is that it doesn't matter who is in, he has to be a Democratic or you are not happy.
---Mark_V. on 3/12/08

yes our President is a CHRISTIAN man and if you got nothing to hide then dont worry about it! Jeez
---Billy on 3/12/08

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MikeM: "The goverment needs to put cameras into Jerry[']s home." Mike, I hold a Top Secret security clearance from the US DOD, and believe me, the Feds have investigated me up one side and down the other. If I had anything to hide, they would have found it long ago. Besides, aren't we Christians supposed to "Abstain from all appearance of evil.?" (1Th 5:22)

That having been said, I share your concern about our socialist-leaning government.
---jerry6593 on 3/12/08

No, but all presidents conversations should be taped and produced as evidence in courts of law for crimes against humanity. A bit more transparency from 'public servants' would be very helpful to the planet.
---frances008 on 3/11/08


While government has a tendency to become corrupt, it is not necessarily so (I hope that the Kingdom (i.e. government) of God is not "necessarily evil").
---StrongAxe on 3/12/08



Sarcasm (which is generally based on irony) is a legitimate form of discourse, as long as it's used to make a point (there are some examples in the Bible - for example, when Elijah taunts the prophets of Baal, asking them where their god has gone? Perhaps he's "gone on a journey" (a euphemism for "sitting on the toilet").

It only becomes a problem when one is cynical, and EVERYTHING is tinged with sarcasm.
---StrongAxe on 3/12/08

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Jerry, the Constitution doesn't mention driving cars either.

Spend some time studying "search and seizure". This is why a warrant is required of police to tap a phone. What makes Bushy any different? Because he is the president or a so called Christian?
---NurseRobert on 3/11/08

What dark secrets do you not want exposed?
---jerry6593 on 3/11/08

Such a typical argument. I expected this from you.

The Constitution was written to protect the people from the Government. After wiretaps, what next? Let's haul you in for questioning, just because we think you are doing something wrong? No, Jerry, it doesn't work that way.
---NurseRobert on 3/11/08

StrongAxe, your posts are all pretty good and I like reading them. I hope my irony is not mean and therefore sarcasm. If it is, I will stop. Let me know.
---John1944 on 3/11/08

By its nature goverment is evil, any and all goverment by nature is evil. Goverment is a nessary evil, therefore the key is to limit that evil. Bush seems to have bypassed 'due process.' If you bug Jefferson's grave, you will hear the sound of him rolling over.
---MikeM on 3/11/08

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Jerry, 'Give up a little freedom for security, and in the long run you will end up with neither.' The goverment needs to put cameras into Jerrys home, if he is doing nothing wrong, he has nothing to worry about.
---MikeM on 3/11/08

Cindy, I loved your answer. If you are on the phone people can get saved. I didn't think of that but you are so right. You can witness to others through the phone and if someone listens, the Spirit can take over there too. Great answer. Especially when your topics all day are about the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 3/11/08

Nurse: The 4th Amendment doesn't mention telephone privacy, it prohibits only unwarranted searches and seizures by the govm't. You look it up! What dark secrets do you not want exposed? Want to bug my bedroom? Go ahead! I hope you like the sound of snoring!
---jerry6593 on 3/11/08


While I have a great sense of humor, I am somewhat sarcasm-impaired, and sometimes have difficulty telling when someone is pulling my leg :)
---StrongAxe on 3/10/08

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If you have nothing to hide, please post your social security number, bank account number, and ATM PIN number here for all to see. After all, Christians have nothing to hide, yes?

There was a king in the old testament (sorry I can't recall the exact reference right now) who had the same attitude and showed the neighboring king all his defenses - for which God chewed him out (and he was invaded and conquered).
---StrongAxe on 3/10/08

Not unless he is bored.
---catherine on 3/10/08

If you have something to hide, then you're not a Christian.
---jerry6593 on 3/8/08

Jerry, where did you get that idea? Maybe we should set up listening devices in your home, perhaps your bedroom? In this country we have a Constitutional right to privacy in our conversations (look up the 4th Amendment).
---NurseRobert on 3/10/08

Mary and StrongAxe, we Christians, myself certainly included, sometimes take ourselves far too seriously. This venue needs a bit more humor and lightening up.
---John1944 on 3/10/08

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There are people sitting in prison for crimes they did not commit.
DNA is freeing some who were unjustly accused. Thank God, that technology is revealing the truth.

I believe that anyone listening on the other end of my communique is being blessed by the Holy Spirit. I share Jesus Christ with my loved ones, my friends, strangers and remember that I am Jesus' assistant ambassador, witnessing for Jesus Christ while I'm on the phone because I love Jesus with all of my heart.
---Cindy on 3/8/08

Why should a Christian worry about someone overhearing their conversations? If you have something to hide, then you're not a Christian. I want would-be terrorists monitored.
---jerry6593 on 3/8/08

Hi John1944: OOPS! :/ Oh is my face red now lol! :D I knew it all along--ha! :D
---Mary on 3/7/08


Yes, in retrospect I kind of suspected as much.
unfortunately, I seem to be one of those people who tends to take things literally, so subtle irony can sometimes escape me unless I'm hit over the head with it :)
---StrongAxe on 3/7/08

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No one should be able to tap our phones.Our personal conversations are just that personal.
---shirley on 3/7/08

Remember Peter was born again but Paul was forced to reprimand him as is clearly stated in Galatians 2:11-12"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision" the fact that a person is born again does not mean their actions are always right and/or pleasing to God!!!!
---Mima on 3/7/08

Whatever the president does whether saved or not, will be determined by God. If God allows things to happen it is because He permits them to happen. Every president has done what is necessary for this country. Wiretapping should never be a problem for a true Christian. No Christian should mind if he has nothing to hide. If he does he should take it with the Lord. The Lord has our rights as Christians. He influences the hearts of all His Children.
---Mark_V. on 3/7/08

#2. If He is not influencing you something is very wrong. Wiretapping or anything that presidents do, has already been known by God. The future cannot change by your actions. God already know what the future holds and how it will work out for He is Omniscience. What will be present is our own actions. How we conducted ourselves, what we did in this life, and who's side are we really on, and what judgment seat we will attend in the end.
---Mark_V. on 3/7/08

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#3. Do what is right now, and you will find yourselve in the Kingdom of heaven. please the Lord with all your heart and stop worrying about what is good for you, and think of others. Make sure you are on the right side.
---Mark_V. on 3/7/08

StrongAxe, I agree with you. I was doing irony.
---John1944 on 3/7/08

Tapping our telephones is nothing compared to what is coming in the tribulation. At That time, the government will be able to track a person's every move. This will all be done under the cloak of safety, the person's safety. At that time, the 10 governments will be run by a man who gives himself over to Satan, a biblical name for him is the Anti-christ. But if you have asked the Lord Jesus Christ into your heart to not be too concerned as you will be "caught up" (raptured).
---Mima on 3/7/08

---catherine on 3/7/08

Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders because he's a Christian (or says he is), everything he does is okay? Would someone care to explain that to my friend Dan who just found out his son was injured in Iraq? Or the countless others who've been hurt by Bush's war?
---Mary on 3/6/08


"President Bush is born-again so whatever he does is okay, I'm sure."
I am born-again, and I think that a very large number of his decisions have been very, very bad.

Does this mean that, because I'm born again, that my mistrust of Bush is perfectly good?

If so, than there is a problem.
If not, then there is an even bigger problem.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/08

President Bush is born-again so whatever he does is okay, I'm sure.
---John1944 on 3/6/08

Elder ... No, it was not I who asked the question!
I always call myself Alan of UK, except when the auto fill-in of the name just shows 'a'
This other guy is plain Alan, and I don't know anything about him.
In the uK telephone tapping has to be authoirsed at the highest level and for a specific purpose.
---alan_of_UK on 3/6/08

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Does this mean we will see a lessening of copious amounts of details shared about a blogger's life? I hope so. No one has to spy on anyone. One has coughed up so many scenarios, the rest of us have to cover our eyes. Spilling the beans then trying to recover them. That's the thing about a very public website that one considers their own.
Getting suspicious and paranoid because the rest of us are left to ignore it or give answers they do not want to hear.
---Bob on 3/6/08

It's difficult to pick up toothpicks after they've been thrown all over the floor.
Not to worry, I believe about a half of a tenth of the stories and chalk the rest up to a temporary reprieve from anguish.
---Bob on 3/6/08


Would you be OK with the government installing microphones and video cameras in every room in your house (including your bedroom and bathroom) to make sure you're not doing "anything wrong"? After all, if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide, right?
---StrongAxe on 3/6/08

NO! Wiretaping is one kind of abusing one's power. These are the days that we are living in. Actually, while we are on the subject. I believe anyone that eavesdrops on other people their lives has got to be boring. Nothing better to do than to spy.
---catherine on 3/5/08

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Jesus Christ sets the captives free.
Free from all bondage, fear, anxiety and paranoias.

When you are in Jesus Christ, you are free.
It doesn't matter what the weather is doing, or the political climate, Jesus gives you freedom.

I don't have to hide, I don't have to scurry around like a wet rat being tossed around on a ship, to and fro, scared that I will not find a crumb to eat or having someone shadow my computer blogs about Jesus Christ.

I am not afraid. Are you?
---Cindy on 3/5/08

those who support the tapping of phones are blindly obeying somebody who is above the constitution. might as well give your SS number to an identity thief
---mikehow on 3/5/08

I dont have a problem with it. If your not doing anything wrong you dont have anything to worry about.
---tom on 3/5/08


You don't know the definition of Oppression, if you consider a "Third Ear" listening in on your conversation: Oppression. Nobody's tapping you, at least I don't think so, so let's relax...

---Reiter on 11/15/06

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I don't think the president or anyone else has a right to put a tap on anyone's phone without their knowledge. That is an evasion of privacy. Somebody stated earlier that they should put video cameras in everybody's home, that's a little far out. I hope that President Bush is called on the carpet for doing that without permission from anyone.
---Norma7374 on 11/14/06

Rachel: Without a warrant for the wiretaps, I will not give up my freedoms. My forefathers came to this country for a better life, one without oppression. The Consititution protects my rights and I don't give them up without a fight.
---Madison1101 on 11/14/06

Those who care about being Tapped, need to ask themselves why, because if you have nothing to hide, you wouldn't care. If your speech was righteous and uplifting, you wouldn't mind who overheard you. If your lips were pure, then you would not be bothered by a tap. The tap is for the Protection of the American People. I'm not suggesting that it is going to happen, but IF it does, know it is for Our own benefit...for our own security...for safety.

---Reiter on 11/14/06

I think he should Tap dance.
Is this the same Alan from UK?
Do your phones need to be tapped.
---Elder on 6/9/06

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You know, I'm so afraid of terrorism, I think the President should install video cameras in all of our homes so we can be sure to catch everyone. I mean, what do I have to fear? I'm not doing anything wrong Maybe you caught my sarcasm. President Bush is a good person, but presidents build off previous president's powers. If we let Bush set this precedent we open the door for a dictatorship in America's future. We cannot allow unlimited power because we are afraid.
---Casey on 6/9/06

Tom; "If your not doing anything wrong you dont have anything to worry about" Thats the attitude that will lead one straight into a dictatership. Its a variation of the "our goverment knows whats best for us." Often dictaterships take over by degree, incrimentalization. Its a variation of the old "how do you boil a frog," you start with cold water, then slowly heat it up.......
---MikeM on 6/9/06

I don't live in America, I live in Australia, but I reckon it's a neat idea for Pres. Bush to tap phones --- when he gets to the born-again Christian ones He hopefully will hear about Jesus.
---Helen_5378 on 6/9/06

If he has a warrant, he can monitor to his heart's content. No warrant, no way am I letting him into my records.
---Madison1101 on 6/9/06

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Moderator, didn't we just beat this one up?? Why are we doing it again?

To answer the question:
if he has a warrant based upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, then yes, he should. Otherwise, absolutly NOT.
---NurseRobert on 6/9/06

Domestic telephonic communication is not being monitored, telephone records are. Telephonic communications into and out of the US are being monitored if and only if one party is associated with terrorism or support of terrorism directly or indirectly. All cellular and Internet communication is subject to monitoring because there is no statutory right to privacy in that area.
---notlaw99 on 6/9/06

that was funny donna. Love that sense of humor. Laughter is the best mediciine:)
---sandiee on 6/9/06

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