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Was Eve Innocent Of The Crime

Does Genesis 3:5, in which Satan tells Eve eating the forbidden fruit will open her eyes to good and evil, mean that Eve was innocent when she did eat? If she had NOT eaten it, would mankind today have "closed eyes?"

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 ---Geraldine on 6/23/06
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Eve was innocent until God came calling. She received the first curse.
1st.Tim.2 v 14.
---Lawrence on 7/14/10


8. The author of Genesis tells us that "She saw that the fruit of the tree was ...desireable for gaining wisdom." In essence she swallowed the devil's lie. Here is why. Although this may seem like a less significant point in the temptation process, it is perhaps the most crucial. In effect, by accepting Satan's statement, Eve was calling God a liar, even though she might not have recognized those implications of her action. She accepted Satan as the truth-teller and God as the prevaricator:
---Lupe2618 on 9/20/07


If the woman was not "beguiled" (hebrew term for sexually seduced) by the serpent, why did Yahweh say "i will put enmity between thy SEED and her SEED"? And why was her labor pains increased? Also, why did she know she was naked? And why is Cain not listed under the descendants of Adam? Luk.21:29;Mark 8:24;Dan.4:10 and Prov.3:18 states that the word "tree" could be used to symbolize a NATION,MAN,KING & WISDOM. Therefore, Cain could be the offspring of the serpent.
---Jacques on 8/9/06


kathr4453: Yes, Eve disobeyed & so did Adam. What Adam did wasn't an act of redemption nor was it Christ-like, i.e., obedient to the will God. It was an open act of rebellion. Most definitely, "he knew what he was doing."
---Leon on 7/31/06


No. Eve disobeyed. I see Adam though as a Type of Christ, who out of love for Eve, laid down his life. He knew what he was doing. Actually i see the whole picture of the Church in this. Eve was made out of Adam's rib, just as we "His Bride" are Bone of His Bone, and Flesh of His Flesh. Ephesians 5.
---kathr4453 on 7/29/06




Amen Lupe! Again, I say amen!
---Leon on 7/8/06


Yes Leon, I believe it was for the same reason. You know without sin, God could not have exercise His mercy, grace, and justice. They would have been kept secret forever. I suppose His nature of love too, we would not have experienced it because we would not understand what love was until we realize that He wanted to keep us save but because of our failure and rebellion, Now we can see the love of the Father so much in our lifes through the death of His Son.
---Lupe2618 on 7/6/06


Lupe2618: Why'd God allow the fall? It had to be so He could rescue us out of an impossible situation, grow us up & we'd "know" with absolute certainty He loves us. He want us to freely & wholeheartedly chose to love Him...

God is eternal Creator. I believe He didn't "begin" creating with the G1 account, hasn't stopped creating & won't ever stop!

I suspect, in Heaven, redeemed humanity will be amazed at all the different species (races) God has created & are also there.
---Leon on 7/6/06


Leon, that was a good one. I had never heard it explained that way before. I did learn something today. Thank you for your impute, and I did pay attention. Though Adam didn't or yes, he might have not wanted to start a problem so he just said, "yes honey". The question is, why was it allowed in the first place? God knew they would fail, why did He allow it to happen? Was it to show mankind that on their own they are nothing without Him? What do you think? or anyone.
---Lupe2618 on 7/3/06


PAYING ATTENTION cont'd, #4: Here's one for ya'! Maybe Eve listened to the snake for lack of stimulating conversation, at home, with Adam?

Eve: "I'm going to the tree of the knowledge of good & evil for groceries. You want anything while I'm out"?

Adam: "That's nice dear".

No wonder Adam was held accountable for his irresponsibility, huh? :-)
---Leon on 7/1/06




PAYING ATTENTION cont'd, #3: listening to two conversations at once & one of the reasons may be they have more brain devoted to it...they use both sides of their brain (the region associated with understanding language, as opposed to men who use only the left side).

Please, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Eve was stupid. To the contrary, anyone can be tricked. I just believe Eve paid "two" much (left & right brain) attention to the serpent. ;)
---Leon on 7/1/06


PAYING ATTENTION cont'd, #2: A preacher I know ocassionally says, "What gets your attention will get you." In my opinion, I can see why the snake targeted Eve. Certainly, she was innocent before the fall. But she was also naive (gullible, immature) & highly vulnerable to cunningly devised suggestions. The snake beguiled & got Eve's full attention & the rest is history.

A study, a few years ago, at Indiana U. School of Medicine concluded women can handle
---Leon on 7/1/06


Okay Lupe: I believe there are two ways of looking at the husband & wife scenerio, i.e., 1.) The husband really wasn't paying attention because he was totally absorbed in his reading or 2.) He heard his wife; but, saw her question as being loaded. So, he tried to avoid conflict by seeking neutral ground with a lame response. Either way, he loses. :-)

Alright, so what does this have to do with A&E, specifically with Eve's listening to & talking with the serpent? (G3:5)
---Leon on 7/1/06


A husband & wife are sitting side-by-side. She's reading the newspaper. The front page capition reads, "GENDERS DIFFER IN PAYING ATTENTION." He's reading a hardback book (perhaps the Bible, "I don't know" ;-)).

She turns to her husband & asks, "Do you think women listen better than men?" Not raising his eyes from the book, the husband replies, "That's nice dear."

Please be patient with me. I'm going somewhere with this. Not today though.
---Leon on 6/30/06


3. so to me, God is not the author of sin, but allowed it to be a choice for them knowing full well they would fail, since Christ was already in the plan. This is just for thinking and not for argument. Just wanted to share this with you. To have a choice, is to have free will, is to be able to decide right from wrong. What is your opinion on this? I believe Helen ask me this question some time back.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


2. yet we know that Luscifur also had a free choice or else he would not have decided to disobey. So we are left with, if God decided to give free will, He must have known before hand that they would sin. We know that because we know through Peter, as he tells us, "that Christ as a sacrifice for sin was "foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world" 1Peter 1:20. and Paul says, "According to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ our Lord."
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


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Geraldine, I believe as you. I think that allowing free will for both was the reason. yet, when someone is given free will, you ask yourself, free to do what? There has to be a choice to pick from. Here the choice was obey or disobey. Now if free will was given by God, that means God introduce sin (which is disobedience to Him) into the world becuase of free will. As we know already, God is not the author of sin.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


Leon, it was a faithful question to you. I did not mean anything wrong with it. I only meant if you have a reason, to tell us, if you like. I would very much like to hear it. but if you don't, that is ok too. I already picked up something new with Fred's answer on this same subject. So it is helpful because others some times see something I don't see. That was all Leon.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


Lupe: Should I be led to respond to those particular questions, I will. Otherwise...
---Leon on 6/30/06


Lupe, you asked why God allowed Satan to tempt Eve. I believe it is because FREE WILL is such an important factor in human existence. Without free will man would be like other animals, not much more than a plant that can move around, and unable to communicate and fellowship with God.
---Geraldine on 6/29/06


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Ok Leon, give us your view on how long the tree of good and evil was there? Or maybe the answer to Helens question. I would like to hear it.
---Lupe2618 on 6/29/06


I won't rule it out either tofurabby. But I , really " don't know ". :-)

Yes Lupe, Christians should vigorously "discuss" (I like that word better than debate) Bible issues by the Holy Spirit's leading. We should never posture ourselves in a I'm right & you're wrong", condescending & judgmental manner against one another. (Ro. 3:4)

"Come now, & let us reason together, says the Lord..." (Is. 1:18)
---Leon on 6/29/06


The reason why Eve ate off of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was because she wanted to become wise, more knowledgeable. Satan's coniving ways prsuaded her into thinking that she shall not surely die. Read the first 3 chapters of Genesis and you will understand.
---Rebecca_D on 6/29/06


Helen, I'm sure many will think it was because she was the weaker vessel. I was thinking of that too, but after I did that I wondered if she was the strongest vessel because it took a lot of talk and word twisting for Satan to finally get her to take her eyes off of what God had told them and did eat. But with Adam Satan didn't do much, and Eve could not be smarter that Satan. Maybe someone has an answer different then mine. Another thing to consider there is "Why did God allow it to happen?"
---Lupe2618 on 6/29/06


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Question - Why did the serpent tempt Eve and not Adam?
---Helen_5378 on 6/29/06


2. Everyone has the right to answer as they see things for that is a debate but please don't cut anyone down just because they don't agree with one area. Now we all agree that we believe Scripture right? And from there we can go on debating. I like to hear from others and see if they have a good point. Take the subject mentioned on, there been sin before Adam, or was there sin before Satans rebellion? are that the tree of good and evil was there all the time. Those are good questions to ask.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/06


I believe that where you have a problem is in how sin was imputed to us. This area I wanted to talk about with Donna on the other blog but thought better not to mention yet. that is one question that many can give their opinions of how we are responsible since it was not our fault in what Adam did. So by answering those questions more infomation comes out and many more will search for the Truth which is the point of this questions. Please don't judge anyone since this is a debate.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/06


Yes, I am still here, and very gratified to see Christians out there thinking about Scripture and faithfully trying to follow the admonition "Come, let us reason together." No idea what my next question will be, but I'm sure there will be one.
---Geraldine on 6/28/06


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Geraldine: If you're still here, you may see that there are lots of people today who really do have "closed eyes" (lack understanding). I really enjoyed your thought provoking question. What's next? :-)
---Leon on 6/28/06


I agree Leon. I dont know if there were prefall children, but I wont rule it out.

Here is another thought to blow some stubborn minds... Sin existed before Adam's fall. Adam caused it to enter the world, but Lucifer sinned before Adam. There was even a tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What was the evil they knew of? We call it sin and it already existed.

M.P. you prove my point. It does not say that in the Bible, but with some simple logic you can figure out the answer.
---tofurabby on 6/28/06


tourabby: The point, a few folk here either can't see or perhaps choose to "close their eyes" to, is THE BIBLE SAYS Adam's sin brought total destruction not just on Eve & himself; but, on " ALL " of their descendents as well. (Ro. 5:12-14)

The often repeated argument here that if there were pre-fall children they wouldn't have been tainted by Adam's sin is bogus.
---Leon on 6/28/06


tofurabby, God only spoke life and death issues to Adam and Eve.
Animal and plant life were not subjects in dealing with sin yet Adam's sin affected all living things except those without a sin nature.
Christ does not have a sin nature. He choose to die of His own will. He did not have a sin nature so He took His life back after sins debt was paid so that you might have life. I know you know that.
Plants and animals never had a soul or sin nature. We are dealing with people and the sin nature.
---Elder on 6/28/06


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Leon there is no problem in "thinking" about how or what God may or may not have done. What becomes an issue is when we reject the other things and revealed truth and come to wrong conclusions.
Your statement about "daughters only" would be good except for the fact they would not have had the curse of death on them either. They would still be alive also with out a sin nature.
---Elder on 6/28/06


Only those who cannot accept that God made only one male and one female can possibly think that Cain's wife came from anywhere other than being another off-spring of Adam and Eve (in other words, HIS SISTER). There were no cousins, aunts, half-sisters or anything else, unless you believe in pre-fall children (who should still be alive, BUT STILL BE HIS SISTERS) or more families made from the dust of the ground (in which case we would not all be descendents of Adam).
---M.P. on 6/28/06


Elder, I agree with you... my point was that the Bible does not say, yet you dont have a problem with making an assumption about it. We can come to a logical conclusion of what happened but cannot guarantee it is correct. Now, death was given to everything, not just Adam and his offspring... even the animals, plants, and insects. Do you think those creatures were subject to death prefall in the perfect Garden of Eden?
---tofurabby on 6/28/06


Well as for me Eve was equally to the fall as Adam. Adam disobeyed God's instruction.Eve knew excactly what was said by God not to eat, but listened to the snake.
---ZIMBABWEAN on 6/28/06


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Elder: Seems you've overlooked the possibility that Eve may've had only pre-fall "daughters", not sons. That would certainly account for her statement about God giving her a "man"-child.

As an aside, the pre-fall daughters scenerio could possibly explain why there are more women in the world than men. Hmmm! That would be a good question to ask. :-)

Sue: I'm writing late. Hope I won't need a brown paper bag later on. ;-)


---Leon on 6/28/06


tofurabby if there had been pre-fall children they would not have had a sin nature, they would not have died, the curse would not have been on them and their offspring would be the same way.
They would still be alive and with us today.
You will notice in Gen 4:3 the words "in the process of time." The is some time space here. Verse 2 Cain and Able were babies and in v3 we have someone old enough to be a farmer and flock keeper.
Cain must have married his near kin like a sister.
---Elder on 6/27/06


Leon, Gen 4:1 the Bible doesn't say Eve conceived again. Didn't Eve say I have gotten a man from the Lord not another man?
In verse 17 Cain knew his wife and she conceived and bare Enoch, same words.
Verse 25 Adam knew his wife "again" and the word "another" is used.
Do you see a pattern here?
From Gen 2:4 we have the generations of the created heaven and earth all the way until ch 5 when God turns the focus on the generations of Adam.
---Elder on 6/27/06


It may be that God will say "You foolish child, did I write there was no other children? No I didn't. If I did not write it, why do you insist that there were none?"
The answer is we do not know, and do not need to know. If we did, God would have said.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/27/06


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Lupe, I think he would say something more like, "You clever child, did I write there was other children? No I didn't. If I did not write it, why do you insist that there was? Must have been a logical guess based on the fact that Cain married and I still yet had not mentioned anything about other children." How do we explain that? Many have an answer for the wife of Cain, but still it was not written where she came from. Do we just say I dont know or take a logical guess?
---tofurabby on 6/27/06


Tofurabby, God will say, " You foolish child, did I write there was other children? No I didn't. If I did not write it, why do you insist that there was? What I say is truth and anything else is not." For punishment I will send you to time out." Yes, we love to add things we don't understand. I go by what He says tofurabby, and you can stick to maybe yes or maybe no. It does not hurt our believes on salavation but can move us in a different direction in our theology concerning Scripture.
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/06


No, I don't think you will be in trouble if you say maybe or maybe not. It is when we follow something we think is true and take a different path from what Scripture tells us that we then get in trouble with the passages. We all have a lot of ideas when we don't understand something clearly. But we have all our life time to learn.
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/06


While tending to the animals for God Adam noticed that every creature had a mate. God looked upon Adam and noticed his interest and said in Genesis 2:18 "it is not good for man to be alone." That is when God made woman. But remeber God made the covenant with only Adam Genesis 2:16. Then he made woman not for God but for man. So when Eve ate the fruit none of their eyes were exposed till she gave it to her husband and he ate.
---Latoya on 6/27/06


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2- I almost think God will tell us when we get there... ("My Son, you know that time when you told that guy.... you probably should have just said I dont know rather than trying to come up with an answer to that one.")

Cant wait till we get there so we can learn everything that really happened... I know we will be amazed.
---tofurabby on 6/27/06


I do agree Lupe, (playing devils advocate...) Wouldnt it be concidered adding to the Bible to say for a fact that there were no children prefall? The Bible does not say that either. It actually does not mention it at all, so I will stick with my "maybe, maybe not" stance. I dont think we will be in trouble if we answer with a "I dont know" every now and then. cont.
---tofurabby on 6/27/06


Lupe: So true, we will never know it all. Thank God! I don't believe we could handle it. :-)

I agree, what God says, in the Bible, overrides all else. Peace!!!
---Leon on 6/27/06


Bruce5656: The answers to your questions are in the Bible. Obviously, I'm not satifactorily qualified to explain them to you. :-)

I suggest you go to God in prayer & ask Him to show you. Otherwise, we'll be going round & round on this subject for days to come.

Like I said earlier, this isn't a salvation issue. So, we can disagree agreeably. Peace!!!
---Leon on 6/27/06


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2. or take away from Scripture just because I don't understand something in it. You have to read it continually till you die to understand much of it and yet you will never know all of it. But to say there was any children when God doesn't tell us is for me to add something to Scripture that is not there at all.
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/06


Leon you and tofurabby said the same thing, "how do I know there was no children before the fall" The only thing that I can go by is, God's Word and He doesn't tell us and what He doesn't tell us cannot be true because it would come from us, and since we are fallen in nature and righteous because of Christ we make mistakes and God does not make mistakes. That is how I know. If at one time it had, then I would say there was. I can only go by Scripture. I cannot add
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/06


Elder, I am having trouble finding where it tells of Eve's first born. I agree that they most likely did not have prefall children, but I also dont see any reason they couldnt. God did tell them to multiply and replenish the earth. They were expected to reproduce prior to sin. If they did or not, it does not say. The generations of Adam begin with Seth, why not Abel or Cain? Where did Seth, Abel & Cain get their wives? Where and when were they born? There is a lot of history missing from Adam to Noah.
---tofurabby on 6/27/06


Elder: The Bible doesn't say Cain was Eve's " first born " (G4:1).

Interestingly, before the G4 account of Eve birthing Cain & Abel, she is called "mother of ' ALL ' living" before being expelled from the garden. In fact, G3:20 says she "was" (present, not future tense)... So, what " ALL " might that be referring to?

It's apparent Cain & Abel were born outside of the garden.
---Leon on 6/27/06


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"Throughout the Bible God shows His judgments are consistently just.
---Leon"

Leon, how could it in any way be construed as just to punish a race of people who had not sinned? (Pre-fall children and their descendents)
---Bruce5656 on 6/27/06


tofurabby, there are many people who say the Scripture doesn't say a certain thing because they are expecting a kind of language they are used to.
The Scripture says to study and read, not just read.
The Bible says God created Eve and tells of her first born. It also says Eve was the mother of all living, so there could not have been others before her first born child.
---Elder on 6/27/06


Lupe, You said "There is no where in Scripture that states that there were children before the fall. We can assume there were but there wasn't." You are assuming that there wasnt just because it is not stated in scripture. The number of children had by Adam & Eve is not mentioned, but we can assume they had many because their children had wives, there was population, etc. I dont know if they had children prefall and they may have, but I also cannot guarantee that they didnt.
---tofurabby on 6/27/06


Lupe2618: What contradiction(s)? Would you say Adam's sin was probably as wicked as the sins of the people in Noah's day? "All", except for Noah & immediate family, died (men, women & their children ) in the flood. How about the Sodomites...? Men, women & children "ALL" died. What about God's judgment on the Amalekites (1 Sam. 15:1-3)? Etc., etc., etc.

Ro. 5:12-14 -- Adam's sin brought death to "ALL" .

Good point tofurabby!
---Leon on 6/27/06


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Lupe2618: You say the only people before the fall were A&E. How do you know that? Why are you so sure A&E didn't have children before the fall? Given what the Bible clearly says, how did you come to those rigid conclusions?

God says His ways are higher than our ways...(Is. 55:9-11). You, me, "we" can't understand all that God does nor can we presume to have the perogative to evaluate His righteousness. Throughout the Bible God shows His judgments are consistently just.
---Leon on 6/27/06


2. before the fall and God had imputed the curse on them too it would have been unjust for God to curse them too. Not possible from a Holy and Just God. For His actions are always right. I guess I didn't have to put down the children now would be sinless but was trying to prove a point. As Brucee put it, they would not have been put under the curse. The curse cause death to come to the body, not only Spiritually but phyically. Adam did not die right away but did later and so does everyone.
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/06


Imputed to us tofurabby, I never said genetically. I don't believe I used that word once. It is not hard to understand that it was an act of God through the curse. In reality you were born with a sin nature only because God imputed that to everyone after the fall. The people before the fall was Adam and Eve. There in no where in Scripture that states that there were children before the fall. We can assume there were but there wasn't. I gave an example that if there had been any sinless children
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/06


I am not so sure about that Lupe. "by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;" It says it entered into the world, not that it is genetic to Adams descendants. Animals, plants, everything is now condemned thanks to one man's sin. "so death passed upon all men" ..."even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression"
---tofurabby on 6/26/06


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2. The concequences of the sin were indeed grave. We are all guilty because sin was imputed to everyone through Adam. His sin is laid to our account. In the same sense, Jesus imputes righeousness towards the believer, and the price has been made that was on us from Adam.
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/06


Leon, you are correct on all the passages because that is what God's word says. So in understanding that point only proves that there could not have been any children born without sin. It only proves what Bruce has stated otherwise the Bible would contradict itself. Not only that but to this day many others would be without sin that came from those children if they had been born sinless, dicendents of the sinless sons or daughters. And that is not the case.
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/06


To add to Leon's post... it also brought death to the animals.
---tofurabby on 6/26/06


Bruce5656: The Bible says because of Adam , sin entered into the world. That is, as a result of Adam's sin (breaking God's law by doing what He'd forbidden) death passed to all of mankind , i.e., Adam, Eve & "all of their children" . (Romans 5:12-14)

The first Adam (man), through sin, brought death to us all . The second Adam (Son of Man, the Lord Jesus Christ), through redemptive work on the cross, has brought us eternal life. (1 Cor. 15:45-47)
---Leon on 6/26/06


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Great answer Bruce. very true and correct. I was trying to put all that into an answer but you explained it very well. Oh, the things we learn when we continue to search. Every day we learn something new.
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/06


"Where did his wife come from?" Yes! You've obviously done the math tofurabby. :-)

Also, to further make the point, who were the " every one " Cain was afraid of? (G4:14)

I believe God sets Bible scenes (Gen.-Rev.) so we can openly see into them with His understanding.
---Leon on 6/26/06


Leon,
If, they had pre-fall children, they would not be tainted with the sin nature and would not have been subject to the punishment of death put on Adam and Eve and their descendants.
---Bruce5656 on 6/26/06


Oop! If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything. :-)

6.) "an" should read "any".
---Leon on 6/26/06


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"pre-fall" children, cont'd 2:

Anyway, disagree if you must. :-) This isn't a salvation issue. Regardless, pre or post fall, it's obvious A&E had children (males & females) though only three of their children are actually named in the Bible, i.e., Cain, Abel & Seth.

Thanks for your alert response tom2. Peace!!!
---Leon on 6/26/06


"pre-fall" children, cont'd 1:

4.) I believe A&E cheerfully did all that God told them to do except when they chose to sin.

5.) Also, when God told Eve she'd have difficulty in child-bearing (G3:16) the statement seems to imply that Eve had prior knowledge & "pain-free" experience of birthing children.

6.) Is it likely A&E "knew" each other prior to the fall & didn't make an children? I don't think so!
---Leon on 6/26/06


I agree completely Leon. The Bible doesnt mention them having children then, but doesnt say they didnt. Many of their children are unmentioned. In Gen4:17 Cain knew his wife, but prior to that verse, the only humans mentioned were Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel. Where did his wife come from?
---tofurabby on 6/26/06


tom2. The idea of "pre-fall" children may seem a bit far out; but, I believe the Bible shows probability:

1.) God said it wasn't good for man to be alone, so He made woman for man.

2.) Adam was, to say the least, as excited as a kid on Christmas morning when he awakened & discovered Eve under his tree. (G2:23)

3.) God told A&E to be fruitful & multiply . I don't think God was talking about apples & oranges, etc., & I suspect Adam didn't have to be told twice. ;-)
---Leon on 6/26/06


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This subjects are great to study and way better then answering some other blogs that don't teach much. M.P. I thought about your answer and I believe you are correct also and a good point. that there would not have been any pain for childbearing if the fall had not happen. It is an interesting point because all points that we see reveals more of God's word to us, for each point has a reason and connect in the whole of God's Word. There is so much to see if we just look deep.
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/06


2. traced back into eternity, the plan to permit man to fall into the sin from which he was thus to be redeemed must also extend back into eternity, the plan to permit man to fall into the sin from which he was thus to be redeemed must also extend back into eternity: otherwise there would have been no occasion for redemption.
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/06


Helen, I believe the fall would have happened anyway even if Adam had not sinned. Somehow the fall was going to happen and here is why, we are told that Christ was "foreknown indeed (as a sacrafice for sin)before the foundation of the world," 1 Peter 1:20. Paul speaks of "the eternal purpose" which was purposed in Jesus Christ our Lord. Eph. 3:11. The writer of Hebrews refers to "the blood of an eternal covenant," 13:20. And since the plan of redemption is thus
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/06


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