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Still Sinners After We Are Saved

Are we still sinners after we are saved?

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 ---Dean on 6/23/06
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Remember sin is transgression of the law and we are set free from this law Rom8:2. Where there is no law there is no transgression (sin) Rom4:15
---Haz27 on 1/3/11

Haz27, I see you continue to use this, however scripture tells US, that what ever is not of FAITH is sin.

So to the Christian who now lives UNDER FAITH, yes we can sin. We can doubt God, we can take thing in our own hands and not wait on Him...Doing and saying in His strength and power...there are many exampes of SIN, apart from the LAW we can still commit.
---kathr4453 on 1/4/11


Haz, great teaching !!! Real truth. Keep on giving God's true word.
Any can give scripture but not many can give the understanding and teaching of it.
As Jesus said to Peter, only God can reveal the truth to those who are saved and only God can give the ability to teach the truth.
You are doing an excellent job!! Keep giving the word. There is no such thing as a saved sinner. You are either saved or a sinner.
God bless you!!
---ginger on 1/4/11


Haz 2: verse 8 is saying,
"if the Truth, (which is Christ) is in you, you will say you are a sinner" for it says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us"
Verse 10 is saying,
"If His Word is in us, we will say we have sinned for God is not a liar" because the passage says,
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and the Word (Christ) is not in us"
For 1 John 1 says the "Word of life" was witnessed by them, seen by them heard by them."
What is so hard to understand? Stop twisting the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 1/4/11


Ginger --- you say "I am in Christ and Christ is without sin" which is scriptural. It is a SPIRITUAL truth.

But that's not what ordinary people, even other Christians, SEE in your life.
GOD sees you as sinless because of Christ's imputed righteousness.
BUT...That's not how you are seen by Jack or Janie Everyman!

They see you as a person as flawed, yes, even sinful, as any other Christian. They see a person who really bears little resemblance to Jesus, yet claims she is sinless!
They may see a person consumed by pride...because that's often how it sounds when you say you are "without sin". Don't be surprised when people question this!
---Donna66 on 1/4/11


hAZ27,DAUNE,ginger:
Light is the absence of darkness.Most of the blogers here tried to show light from scripture but you refuse to see and hear.
Jesus death saved us from the penalty of sin,which is death(spirital death)He will someday remove us from the presence of sin.Saved sinners as we are we still sin.As long as we are housed in this flesh the works of the flesh will sometimes show it self Gal.5:19,20,21.
---LIONEL on 1/4/11




Haz27,

Pharisee in the "How Did Paul Come To Christ" made a great statement. the best by far of any statement made on this blog...no, best that i have ever heard from someone else.

I made this statement before...I believe in free will and I believe in predestination, i believe in the 100% deity of Jesus and the 100% human Jesus, and I believe we are not sinners and we are sinners. Paul uses past and present tense. God says 1+1=2 and 1+1=1. We may profess Jesus and be "born again" or not.

i got to go to work. i love the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit have a great day.
---aka on 1/4/11


Haz, the passage in Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Every single person. The passage nowhere says, "excluding believers." You added that to make your point, then you said,
"Sin is transgression of the law. But we have been set free for the law Rom8:2." We have been set free from "the condemnation of the Law" We have the law written in our hearts.
Concerning Habitual sin, that is what Scripture means depending on the context of the passage. And you also did not read the passages in 1 John correctly. I will explain it again for you:
---Mark_V. on 1/4/11


aka:
Read 1Tim1:13 along with 15.
Paul, was a blasphemer, etc before. So looking at his former life, yes, he is chief among sinners.

Verse 15 is not saying Paul is a sinner and saved at same time.
---Haz27 on 1/3/11


Mark_V:
You once argued that 1John3:6-9 referred to "habitual" sin. Your silence now suggests you realise that was error.

I too found it difficult to understand at first why 1John3,6-9 CLEARLY says Christian DO NOT SIN.

It is difficult to let go of traditional beliefs but I encourage you and others here to consider why God says Christians do not sin.
---Haz27 on 1/3/11


Yes alan, and you have been one of them on occassion.
I will repeat for you again though.
I am in Christ and Christ is without sin.
I have been washed clean.
You claim to be a Christian, so why do you think you are not a saint?
We all must ask ourselves the question.
Are we hot or cold? Or are we luke warm.
To believe you are a saved sinner is to make the power of Christ null. You and others have taken that particular scripture to believe that sin still reigns over you when it does not. Paul said it. Do you walk in CHrist everyday or in your flesh?
Not being cruel just asking the right questions.
---ginger on 1/3/11




Donna and alan of uk:
God gives us definitions of sin. There are several.

1John3:4 is the most commonly recognised definition: Sin is transgression of the law. But we have been set free for the law Rom8:2. God tells us in Romans that what the law says it says to those under it.

As believers are you still under the law? Remember, where there is no law there is no transgression (sin). You are now justified in Christ if you believe on him.
---Haz27 on 1/3/11


Donna and alan of uk:
God gives us definitions of sin. There are several.

1John3:4 is the most commonly recognised definition: Sin is transgression of the law. But we have been set free for the law Rom8:2. God tells us in Romans that what the law says it says to those under it.

As believers are you still under the law? Remember, where there is no law there is no transgression (sin). You are now justified in Christ if you believe on him.
---Haz27 on 1/3/11


1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
---aka on 1/3/11


"Get the behind me satan"!!
I am not saying I am sinless.
I am saying that I am in Christ and it is he that lives and not me anymore. Christ is sinless! and I am hidden in him. You put 2 and 2 together. Is your flesh crucified? Or do you still answer its call and raise it back from the dead?
I have been washed of my sins and walk in Christ daily. So, I am not a sinner.
That doctrine of the devil can go right back where it came from!
Again, you cannot walk in both. You are one or the other.
Markv, you continue in your false doctrine and see what God has for you at the end.
Be Hot or cold...NOT luke warm!
---ginger on 1/3/11


duane--I am the righteousness of Christ BECAUSE of His work on the cross. This rightousness is IMPUTED to me. Why would I deny THAT?
BUT I would be dishonest (a sin) if I said I no longer sin! A "sinner" is no longer who I am...and I don't call myself a sinner...but I am not immune to sin.

Jesus was the only sinless man. NO ONE ELSE.
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Who were "my little children"? Unbelievers?
---Donna66 on 1/3/11


Ginger & Haz ... Do you claim that you no longer sin?

I have never met a Christian who claims he or she does not sin.

But I have read some say that here, yet the cruelty of their words betrays the fact that they do still sin.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/3/11


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Haz27---So now Christians just "do things wrong". Before they were born again, they "sinned". (I always wondered how the sinless ones justified otherwise sinful behavior. I don't mean this unkindly...just wondered)
Now their relationship with God has caused their behavior to improve. If they accused their brother unjustly, it used to be called "sin", but now the very same thing is "doing something wrong".
Yes that is confusing.

I understand we are no longer under the law, for now we have eternal life not death. We don't suffer the eternal consequeces of sin for Christ has taken that on Himself. To me, this doesn't mean we no longer sin.
---Donna66 on 1/3/11


Mark_V:
You know God does not contradict Himself. That is why some explain away 1John3:6-9 by interpreting "do NOT sin" as not "continual", "habitual", sin. This is error, it brings condemnation denying the work of the cross.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect you have backed away from the habitual-sin view of 1John3.

---Haz27 on 1/3/11


Ginger, your implying you are sinless and never sin. What you are doing is calling God a liar. What you are doing is saying the Truth is not in you, what you are saying the Word (Christ is not in you. What you are saying is that you don't have any need for Christ anymore, no need for an Advocate to speak on your behalf since you are sinless, implying Christ is not the only one sinless, but that you are too. That is what you and others are proclaiming. And if someone questions your position you say, they are using wiles of the devil, so this way they don't question what you say because somehow you believe your right. I don't want you to doubt your salvation ever, but I want you to make sure you have it in the first place.
---Mark_V. on 1/3/11


Mark_V:
You are right, "all have sinned...", but that is before they receive Christ.

Just try reading 1John1:8-10 as if addressed to those in darkness. It works. And it follows the context of 1John1 from the beginning.

Remember sin is transgression of the law and we are set free from this law Rom8:2. Where there is no law there is no transgression (sin) Rom4:15
---Haz27 on 1/3/11


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Those hear who deny the work Christ has done so that you won't sin, need to read 2 timothy 3.
You take scripture out of context making Christ's power null & void.
You use scripture to say its ok to still sin? God forbid!
stop letting the enemy deceive you & take away Christ's power in you by saying you still sin.
There is no middle ground with God.
Either you're a saint who Christ has washed away your sin or you are a sinner.
Either you are hot or cold. Don't be luke warm God won't stand for that.
Haz, you've done a great job. If they refuse to listen your hands are clean because you have given the word of God.
Those who ask if you still sin are using the wiles of the devil to cause doubt in the power of Christ.
---ginger on 1/3/11


Haz, your interpretation of 1 John, is so wrong, its backwards, I have to remind you that Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" That means every single person alive. All fall short of the mark. The standard of God.
1 John 1:8 says the same thing, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" Again we are told that we are sinners and if we say we are not, we deceive ourselves, and what? The "Truth is not in us," talking about believers. If the Truth is in us, then we should say we are sinners, because if we don't we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us.
---Mark_V. on 1/3/11


Haz 2: The it says, v. 9,
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousnes" So we need to continue to confess in order to be cleanse because we are sinners. Then v. 10 says
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us" In order for His Word (Christ) to be in us, we have to say we have sinned, because if we don't admit we are sinners, His Word is not in us" plus we are calling Him a liar.
---Mark_V. on 1/3/11


It seems so many on this blog are claiming Christ came for nothing.They quote scripture trying to deny that Christ came to set men free from sin.
(Scripture leads to the Cross/Christ, not away.)
Jesus hung on a cross for a reason but they give all kinds of other ways to be set free from sin, from asking, to confession, to who knows what, all to no avail for they remain sinners forever.
The faithful remain set free from sin (always) through faith in the Cross. Your either set free from sin or your in bondage.
Consider yourselves(christians) DEAD to sin and ALIVE to God.
We have a new life free of sin. Now believe it. Its your gift, your salvation,by grace through faith.
---duane on 1/3/11


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Donna66,
Its not a delusion to believe in the work of the Cross. We all live in a body of sin and death but thats not who we(christians)are. We were born again for a reason and thats why we are called christian. We are set apart/ different. We have life(salvation)without sin(death).
Thank God HE bears your sin/sets you free from sin, so you can be counted sinless before God. Why deny HIM and say your still a sinner? Trust in HIS work on the Cross! Only then can you claim salvation/life. Your either alive or dead. You cant be both, for NO sin shall enter in.
---duane on 1/3/11


Cluny:
You know God does not contradict Himself.

1John 1:8 is referring to those in darkness. If read from beginning it is DECLARING LIFE so that others may have FELLOWSHIP with the Father also.

Verse 6-10 speaks in general "we" terms to those in "DARKNESS".

The alternative view is that 1John3:6-9 speaks of "habitual sin" which is error and denies the work of the cross.
---Haz27 on 1/3/11


alan8566_of_uk and Donna66:

Christians still do things wrong at times, that is obvious. Paul spoke of how we do the things we dont want to do, in Rom7.

If you want to call the wrong we do "sin" thats your choice. But it will cause confusion and condemnation when reading God's word.

Sin is trangression of the law and Jesus set us free from it Rom8:2. We are justified in Christ, not the law.
---Haz27 on 1/3/11


"Haz27 ... When did you last sin?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/2/11"

Alan, that kind of question should be out of bounds. Haz27 quoted scripture, and you responded with a personal attack. We all know that we have (past tense) sinned, so that is not the issue under discussion. The real issue here is whether or not it is possible (by the indwelling power of Christ) to stop sinning. The Bible clearly indicates that in fact, it is! Jesus told the adulteress to "go and sin no more". Whether she did or not, she was nonetheless commanded so by Jesus. So are we!

Have you never got up from a season of earnest prayer for forgiveness and gone for a time (even a few seconds) without sinning?
---jerry6593 on 1/3/11


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Differently YES. Gen.17: 1"..., walk thou before me and be thou perfect". In Christ we are in a school of continouus improvement where end-of-life is graduation. We do make mistakes and errors (=SIN) but no longer willingly or intentionally as when we have not surrendered to Christ Jesus. Pls read 1 John 2:1-2.
---Adetunji on 1/3/11


Haz, you misinterpret the word of God, by doing so you contradict passages. As long as we live in this flesh which was not redeemed, we will continue to sin. You are still a sinner, but the new creation in you is not. God has fitted you with a new creation, He has planted the life of God in your soul, Christ, that life is perfect, because God cannot give you imperfect life. He cannot give you imperfect regeneration, or imperfect righteousness, so that if you are righteous, you are righteous period. What Romans 7 says , "It is not "I" that sin, it is sin that is in me." It is not that new creation, ( for that is perfect,) but sin that is in me" Our humanness is not perfect. That's why there is a battle within us.
---Mark_V. on 1/3/11


Haz27 ... When did you last sin?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/2/11


Lionel and Mark_V:

Do you deny God says:

1John3:6 "whosoever abides in him SINNETH NOT..."

1John3:8 "He that committeth sin IS OF THE DEVIL"

1John3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth NOT COMMIT SIN..."


---Haz27 on 1/2/11


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\\I know it can be difficult to let go of tradtitional beliefs of men but God's word CLEARLY says Christians DO NOT SIN 1John3:6-9
---Haz27 on 1/2/11\\

Then I guess that St. John was writing traditional beliefs of men when he said, "If WE [believers he was writing to, remember] say we have no sin, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES, and the Truth [Jesus] is NOT IN US!"
---Cluny on 1/2/11


//I know it can be difficult to let go of tradtitional beliefs of men

It's even harder to deny what you see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears. Those who are saved DO sin. I see it all the time in others whom I know to be saved (if they deny sinning, I wonder if THEY are delusional) I've seen my OWN tendancy to sin, even though I've been reconciled to God by the blood of Jesus shed for me. I do not sin out of deliberate rebellion, but by my attitudes, I must admit to being a sinner at times.

Who is as righteous as Jesus?Jesus was the only sinless Man I know of! I would be bound for hell were His Righteousness not imputed to me.
---Donna66 on 1/2/11


daune:
He said it is delusional to believe one can be a saint and sinner at the same time.
Can one be a father,uncle and son at the same time?
Is a sinner rightious when he is saved or is he(sinner)declared rightious after saved.
Was abraham a sinner and needed a savior after he believed God?He(abram)stiil built alters to sacrifice.Only sinners needed that,even thou rightiousness was imputed unto him.
Who is it that need to confess their sins in order to re store fellowship but the SINNER that is SAVED.
---lionel on 1/2/11


daune:
He said it is delusional to believe one can be a saint and sinner at the same time.
Can one be a father,uncle and son at the same time?
Is a sinner rightious when he is saved or is he(sinner)declared rightious after saved.
Was abraham a sinner and needed a savior after he believed God?He(abram)stiil built alters to sacrifice.Only sinners needed that,even thou rightiousness was imputed unto him.
Who is it that need to confess their sins in order to re store fellowship but the SINNER that is SAVED.
---lionel on 1/2/11


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Jerry, God is able to keep you from sinning if He so wants to keep you from sinning. But He allows you to continue to sin because His work in you is not finished. Until we get our glorified bodies we will continue to be tempted and continue to sin and God, through the Holy Spirit continues to correct us and transform us. Satan is able to tempt us with the permission of God, for he cannot do anything without God permitting him to do it.
---Mark_V. on 1/2/11


To all on this blog who claim the saved are still sinners do you deny God's word?

Below are several posts I have given with scripture CLEARLY stating that the saved are NOT SINNERS.

I know it can be difficult to let go of tradtitional beliefs of men but God's word CLEARLY says Christians DO NOT SIN 1John3:6-9
---Haz27 on 1/2/11


Duane, people do need help from the redeemer as you say but, all of the time, not just for salvation. Why? Because people still sin. While we are covered with the righteousness of Christ, and God only sees Christ righteousness in us, we still sin and will continue to need Christ as our Advocate all through our life. If we were sinless, we would not need Him anymore and God says, "without Me you can do nothing" Our salvation and our continuing in our faith and hope is all because of God.
What you are suggesting is that we don't need God anymore that His work in us is complete. But it is not complete.
---Mark_V. on 1/2/11


Ask yourself the question:

If Satan is able to temp you to sin, and God is not able to keep you from sinning, then who is the most powerful????
---jerry6593 on 1/2/11


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barb:
You can't be a servant of God and still be a sinner.
Barb can a servant of God commit sin,if so who is it that commit but a sinner?
Even after being saved he she(sinner)still commit sin.
The only difference is that save sinner has the rightiousness of Jesus imputed unto him and is passed from death unto life.
Is not the church composed of sinners saved by grace.
---lionel on 1/2/11


YES! As long as we're still human before the ressurection we can't be sinnless. only then,after the resusrection ,can we enter Gods kingdom.
---candice on 1/1/11


micha8344:
You are right, we have righteousness of Christ. That's why we are NOT sinners. It is no longer I that lives but Christ lives in me Gal 2:20.

Read 1Tim 1:13 and 15. Yes, Paul in FLESH, was a sinner. But he "obtained mercy". It is talking about his state when his flesh ruled. But as the saved it is Christ in him that rules.

Read my earlier post. The saved and sinners are not the same.
---Haz27 on 1/1/11


One of the great delusions of the day is that one can be a saint and be a sinner at the same time. Never did the devil hatch a greater soul deceiving lie. Even the expression, I am a sinner saved by grace is very misleading and unscriptual. If one is a sinner, he is NOT saved. Sin = death...So the reason and work of the cross. We have been made righteous.Set free from sin.
People need faith in their redeemer.
---duane on 1/1/11


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Barb: If you really believe what you are saying about this question. Then let me ask you this: when your pastor,bishop or whomever stand before you at church service. Do you think you are looking at and listening to a perfect and sin-free man/woman? I know the answer but undoubtedly, you don't. God delivered me from this type thinking a long time ago. I praise God for it!
---Robyn on 1/1/11


1Tim 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
-How about that, the chief sinner writing scripture.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Don't we also have the righteousness of Christ?
unless you are relying on yur own righteousness not to be called a sinner.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
What shall you be called, a sinner according to the flesh or a saint according to the Spirit of Righteousness in Christ Jesus?
We were bought for a price.
---micha9344 on 1/1/11


The answer is NO. John 8:34-35. Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin and the servant abidith not in the house forever but the son abidith forever.

You cannot be a servant of God and still be a sinner. To abide in the house of God with his Son Jesus we must keep God's commandments, and we must learn, practice and live the truth. We then become a part of the family, brothers and sisters to Jesus Christ. Mark 3:35. "Whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my mother and my sister and my brother."
---barb on 1/1/11


YES.There is 2 types of sinners in the world,a saved SINNER and a lost SINNER.
---lionel on 1/1/11


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Still sinners AFTER we are saved? Impossible! A contradiction of the faith.

Sin= death, Salvation= life.
Jesus came to put sin away so you could have life. This is the work of the Cross. HE made HIS people righteous, dead to sin and ALIVE to God.
This is the good news. I think very few here have heard it(gospel) if they think they are still sinners.
---duane on 1/1/11


I totally agree with the following statement,
"We have two natures, the carnal nature and the spiritual nature. So we battle with ourselves. A christian may sin and not loose his salvation but he looses his relationship with God.
---Pastor_Herb on 12/29/10
---mima on 12/30/10

mima I disagree with the last part. I do not lose my relationship at all, for I get a spanking, and that is STILL relationship to me.

Will you find me a NEW TESTAMENT scripture under Grace where we ever lose our relationship with our Father.

I am so grateful under Grace I don't, and that God cares so much for me He disciplines me.
---kathr4453 on 1/1/11


Well put, Eloy.
By their fruits you shall know them...Jesus Christ.

Gal 2:20 It is no longer I that lives, but Christ lives in me

1John3:5 "...and in him is NO sin"

1John3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
---Haz27 on 12/31/10


I totally agree with the following statement,
"We have two natures, the carnal nature and the spiritual nature. So we battle with ourselves. A christian may sin and not loose his salvation but he looses his relationship with God.
---Pastor_Herb on 12/29/10
---mima on 12/30/10


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No, saints are not sinners, the sheep are not the goats, and the wheat is not the tares: "You all will know them by their fruits. Every good tree brings forward good fruit, but a corrupt tree brings forward bad fruit. A good tree cannot bring forward bad fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forward good fruit. Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree rotten and its fruit rotten: for from the fruit the tree is known. Every tree that brings not forward good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you all will know them." - Jesus Christ
---Eloy on 12/30/10


We were sinners under the Law and needed Christ for our salvation, and we are still sinners in need of Christ for our continuing life in Christ until we receive our new glorified bodies. We are always in need of Christ, for He says, "Without me you can do nothing"
---Mark_V. on 12/30/10


Yes but we are not condemned when we sin. If we sincerely seek forgiveness from the Father when we sin, He declares He will forgive us and cover our sins. We don't deliberately look for wrong things to do because wrong things will find us, on a daily basis. God will provide a way of escape for us but we must fight the temptation, in order to be victorious. The bible tells us to resist the devil and he will flee(leave us alone).
---Robyn on 12/30/10


Are the saved still sinners?

Romans6:2 "God forbid. HOW shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer in it?"

Sin is transgression of the law 1John3:4.
BUT, 1Tim1:9 "the law is NOT made for a righteous man (Christians), but for....the ungodly and for sinners..."

1Peter4:18 "If the righteous scarcely be saved, WHERE shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

The saved are not sinners.
---Haz27 on 12/30/10


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We are sinners saved by grace. The soul has been saved but our body and mind are unsaved. The mind and body still want to live the old man life while the soul wants to live the new man life. We have two natures, the carnal nature and the spiritual nature. So we battle with ourselves. A christian may sin and not loose his salvation but he looses his relationship with God.
---Pastor_Herb on 12/29/10


you said in this paragraph that if you look and covet what one wears it is a sin, (CORRECT)But if we don't covet and just look away casting that thought down I don't believe we sinned cause being tempted isn't a sin cause even Jesus christ was tempted but resisted. Its when you fall into the temptation that it then becomes a sin because you entertained it! and if we are to be christ-like and can do all things through him. Because he gives us the power to overcome sin through the holyspirit then we would be calling Jesus a liar if we couldn't overcome SIN! Thats why we have a new spirit that walks different, talks different, thinks different and finally ACTS different. Because we are to be like christ without Sin controlling us.
---Gracie_Roath on 12/29/10


Absolutely...Jesus died for our spiritual sins..if you say we are totally saved and cant sin anymore, then you are dreaming..there is still sin around us..it will never go away till Christ returns,..you only need to look at a woman/man and covet what they wear etc to sin. temptation is everywhere and around us..
---pop on 3/1/08


Yes we are still sinners. We have a "new spirit", but he resides in a sinful body.

1tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Paul stated "I am", not "I was".

In the war against sin sometimes we lose the battle (Rom 7:19)

Keep fighting. We are told to fight a good fight of faith (1 Tim 6:12)

Hope this is helpful.
---trey on 3/1/08


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Dean,in a nut shell yes.but you being saved have ,or should have jesus within your spirit to help guide and mature you as a christian. jesus enables you to overcome your sinful nature.with many it,s a long process with some rather short. But we all are in a battle nearly everyday of our lives.also satan knows our weak points.
---tom2 on 2/29/08


"..hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Jude1:23
The inner garment is defiled by the soft substance covering the bones permeated with blood,-flesh. The defilment by this substance is to be pursued with hatred. It was torn off of Christ.
Psa 22:17 "I can count(number)all my bones; people stare and gloat over me."
---jhonny on 6/9/07


Dean: My Bible tells me this: 2Cor15:50-53Now this I say brethren, that flesh n blood cant inherit the kingdom of God,neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold I shew u a mystery, we shall not all sleep but we shall all b changed.In a moment,in the twinkling of an eye,at the last trump, 4the trumpet shall sound, n the dead shall b raised incorruptible, n we shall be changed.4this corruption must put on incorruption n the mortal must put on immortalilty.Y? cos we r still sinners till then.
---jana on 6/9/07


I find certain doctrine progressively makes one very insensitive and casual to sin, especially in the necessity to overcome faulty belief and behaviour in their own lives.

Jud 1:23 "And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
---jhonny on 6/8/07


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This is a problem. One familiar doctrine has impact on morality not yet fully realized.
After we are Saved, are we still sinners?
Psa 51:7 "Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow."
1Cr 5:7
"..the blood of Christ, without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works."
Part of being saved is losing oneself. Luk 9:24 "..whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it." Let it go.
---jhonny on 6/8/07


We are not sinners but we still sin, Bible saids we do. We are Saints only because we have been bought and payed for by the blood of Jesus Christ, when it was offered to us and we were SMART enough to grab ahold and say, "yes", Thank you".
---catherine on 6/8/07


We all do sinful deeds at times, BUT its no longer counted against us...we are dead to sin. Set free indeed.........We are saints now.
---duane on 6/8/07


Oh you've thrown the dirt off the paradox to end all!

Yes sinners, yes saints, absolutely one or the other NO. Not yet anyway.

The body has sin and will not be done away with until the death of it is. This includes your brain, that's why we say "the flesh" because the Spirit of Christ has no such inclination, and we are tempted to sin all the day long.
A 'holy man' can sometimes sin without knowing it in the moment, and that's the paradox at work.
---Pharisee on 6/8/07


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Thanks M.P. for pointing out my blunder.

My applologies to Herb and Pharisee.

Pharisee, the question stands.
---Bruce5656 on 6/24/06


Sister Helen, you did a great job on your explanation about Christ righteousness imputed to us, and not Glorified yet. We are growing in Christ each day and we continue this journey together with the Lord through the help, teachings, and convictions from the Holy Spirit who now has a personal relationship with us.
---Lupe2618 on 6/24/06


I have heard it put this way, I am a saint who sins. My standing as a saint is permanent, regardless of the fact that I still sin. My sinning becomes less and less though, Praise God.
---Madison1101 on 6/24/06


Pharisee responds, Bruce responds to Pharisee but calls him Herb, Pharisee answers. So are Pharisee and Herb one person? In answer to the question - Yes we are still sinners after we are saved, but we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ....read on 1 John 2:1&2.
---M.P. on 6/24/06


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After getting saved, we are then standing in the righteousness of Christ and have Christ's righteousness imputed to us. So when God looks at us, He does not see the old sinner we once were, He sees Jesus!! However, we will not attain perfection until heaven, so we do still sin only it is no longer part of our new nature in Christ.
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06


Everybody has a weakness, Jesus said "the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." My post didn't say God wasn't able, nor faithful enough to keep us clean, he is. What I did say (maybe not so plainly) is that even on our best day with the greatest measure of the Spirit we will sin. Moses striking the rock is a good example; was he not a Holy Man?
For all we know he was severely dehydrated and not thinking clearly, but it's still sin; a falling short through disobediance.
---Pharisee on 6/23/06


The only way to know if you are still a sinner after you have been "saved" is to look to Gods law and find out if you are guilty of anyone of them. A person who is living by faith in Christ should not be guilty of any because they have been saved "from" their sin. Matthew 1:21
I cant say that I am saved from my sin when I am still sinning. 1 John 3:4. sin is breaking Gods law that does not change. Luke 16:17, matthew 5:18.
---eric on 6/23/06




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