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Should The Pope Cover His Head

1Cor 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. Do you think God approves of the pope having his head covered when he prays or speaks for God.

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 ---Debbie on 6/26/06
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I'm amazed at the historical ignorance of "christians" and Catholics alike.

Less sanctimonious posturing and more understanding is in order. The historicity of the Catholic Church (RCC)and the false beliefs attributed to them is disturbing. It would serve you all well to look at the original canon, then the alterations made by Luther establishing the protestants before you begin the mass stonings. (My god is better than your god" doesn't work kids, only knowledge does).
---Noel on 3/2/08


Thanks, Emcee, for your words of encouragement.
I have been interested / enjoyed to read your posts as well.
Take care and God Bless
Ed.
---Ed on 7/18/07


ED ::You were a gentleman & not ashamed to pledge your troth openly.Pity it was refused. But then God knows best & "His will will be done"I must say she lost out on the deal. Blessings you will yet find some one more amenable to devotedness- obedient to Gods word.
---Emcee on 7/17/07


Helen

I kept getting drawn back in by Mark and by you. To be perfectly honest some of your posts REALLY annoy me. But you also write humorous and funny posts as well that draws me back to you!
For all the stuff you have said i still LIKE you which is really annoying. And i love fiery women. We would get on great. Still looking for a husband? Let me know, and we could at least get to know each other, and talk about other things. Seriously.
Ed
---Ed on 7/17/07


Emcee

Bye (yes i am off now, unless someone says something that starts me off again .. so please don't anyone ..).
---Ed on 7/17/07




Yes the pope dishonors his head. However,most other denominations have twisted or ignored certain scripture to create false doctrines and even doctrines of demons. Many think members of other denominations are not saved. Many operate out of selfish gain. Prudent Christians need to examine all churches and determine if they have believed a lie or if they are saved. We are to operate under one doctrine and that was HIS doctrine. We were to be of one mind. False prophets and teachers have destroyed us.
---jody on 7/17/07


Helen: Only those who refuse the acceptance of Jesuse.Peter was one of the first called by Jesus the start of the continuity till today.If you do not accept you see the GAP.
---Emcee on 7/17/07


Ed - ("Helen
Finally I am leaving.
Take care and God Bless
Ed") -- LOL. Are you sure?
---Helen_5378 on 7/17/07


Lorra8574 - How is it that the whole world seemingly knows that the RCC started some 300 years after Peter, but you who are in the RCC don't know that?? Amazing! Even the bus driver on Saturday who is not a Christian knows that!
---Helen_5378 on 7/17/07


Ed - ("Where do you get your theological training from?") -- I don't have any formal theological training. The Holy Spirit who dwells in me teaches me.
---Helen_5378 on 7/17/07




I think with the recent decrees the pope has been making lately, maybe his head is not what he should be covering. Ok, seriously now: Christ is our covering, there is no need to cover our heads when praying or prophesying, it dishonors Christ.

1Cor 11:4 in the Amplified Bible:
Any man who prays or prophesies (teaches, refutes, reproves, admonishes, and comforts) with his head covered dishonors his Head (Christ).
---Anonymous on 7/17/07


Ed ::You remind me of a saying "I am going.Iam going,Iam going to stay Right Here"Helen what Ed says is true You have a bible but twist its words, to suit yourself & it no longer becomes the WORD from you, & therefor not credible.
---Emcee on 7/16/07


Helen, what gap? Jesus started the RCC, with Peter - you are only speaking of a gap in how we named our church, and even then it is not accurate. The Catholic Church was called Catholic and was operating out of Rome by the end of the first century, not some three hundred years later.
---lorra8574 on 7/16/07


During sacred moments in the Mass, the Pope does uncover his head, including his skull cap. So do Catholic bishops. There is no reason why he should remove it when he is addressing the people, whether on God's behalf or not.

I think that the pope would prefer not to wear it at all, but it is part of being pope - this "hat" identifies him in a crowd and is a well-known symbol of his position. I am sure that Peter is glad that he did not have to wear it.
---lorra8574 on 7/16/07


Helen 2

'Everybody is supposed to know the Bible for themselves. If they do, then they will know whether what I say is the truth or not' - There is nothing for you to say, then, unless you are giving us theology (otherwise we can go directly to the Bible and everything you say is superfluous). Where do you get your theological training from? Why should we believe you instead of the theologians in The Catholic Church or say the Baptist Church who are dedicated to theology?
Why you?
---Ed on 7/16/07


Helen 3

You haven't even told us yet what denomination you belong to. Who your fellow Christians are who you get your theology from?
---Ed on 7/16/07


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Helen
Finally I am leaving.
Take care and God Bless
Ed
---Ed on 7/15/07


Ed - ("Not to go first to you and accept everything you say. You do not hold scriptural authority.") -- Everybody is supposed to know the Bible for themselves. If they do, then they will know whether what I say is the truth or not.
---Helen_5378 on 7/15/07


Ed - You repeatedly claim that Jesus was the head of the RCC. How do you explain the 300 years or so between Peter dying and the start of the RCC?
---Helen_5378 on 7/15/07


Jesus is the Rock.
---Helen_5378 on 7/15/07


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Jack writes: You know, for a site that loves to play Bash the Catholics, there's a lot of interest in and concern about the pope. Why is this?*

Catholicism is the most popular topic on these blogs. Maybe the pope will drop by and say howdy one day. :)
---augua9846 on 7/15/07


anyone reading the bible knows all the apostles had the same authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ. when Judas died, they chose mathias to fill the void. Jesus ordained them to heal the sick, cast out devils, teach the gospel. it is the catholics who misunderstand the spirit of inspiration from God as meaning a man. man is corruptable and history proves it time and again through the popes. inspiration is uncorruptable. God is perfect and satan has no power over God or his truth through the H.G.
---Lori on 7/15/07


Helen
No-one asserts that Peter was the 'spiritual rock'. But Jesus did call Peter rock that the Catholic Church interprets thus 'the head of the whole community of those who believed in Him as the true Messias, that through this foundation (Peter) the Kingdom of Christ would be unconquerable, that the spiritual guidance of the faithful was placed in the hands of Peter, as the special representative of Christ.' This is COMPLETELY different to your quote.
---Ed on 7/14/07


2 Helen

'I for one will not love them into hell --- love will tell them the truth then it is up to them who they chose to follow'

But it is the job of Christians to first read the Bible for themselves, and use their own intuition, to work things out for themselves. Not to go first to you and accept everything you say. You do not hold scriptural authority.
---Ed on 7/14/07


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You know, for a site that loves to play Bash the Catholics, there's a lot of interest in and concern about the pope. Why is this?
---Jack on 7/13/07


"You keep saying that Peter is the rock, but that is not true." ~Helen

Jesus changed the name of Simon, son of Jonah to "Peter" which means "rock."

Matt 16:17 "Jesus said to him in reply, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
---MaryLouise on 7/4/06


From that point on, the collection of writings (canon) of the New Testament was official. Everything in the canon is considered "inspired" and anything else is considered "uninspired." This is Sacred Scripture as we have it today.
---ml on 7/2/06


Previous to 397, different people/scholars had a slightly different collection of books. For example, in 332, Constantine made 50 copies of Scriptures for use in the Churches. This was not exactly the same collection of books that we currently have in our New Testament, but it was close. A number of councils/synods took up the matter as there was disagreement. Augustine (Hippo) and Jerome even disagreed on what was canonical. The Pope agreed with Augustine and settled the issue. Part E
---ml on 7/2/06


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Diocletian issued edict in 303. Sacred scripture was to be burned. Christians were to give up these books to authorities or be killed. So, decisions had to be made about what Sacred Scripture really included. Did one really want to be martyred for writings that weren't really Sacred Scripture? What books would a Christian keep and risk martyrdom because they were Sacred Scripture? Who would be a traitor and give up Sacred Scripture? Part D
---ml on 7/2/06


The collection of New Testament books were decided at the Council of Carthage in 397. There had been 3 classes of Christian writings: (a) books acknowledged as canonical, (b) disputed books, and (c) spurious or false books. (a) included 4 gospels, epistles of Paul, Acts. (b) had books that were accepted in some places, rejected in others, doubted and disputed. These included James and Hebrews. Part C
---ml on 7/2/06


Christ is the Head of the Church. Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. He gave the Holy Spirit to teach and remind. (Jn 14:26) He leads them to all Truth (Jn 16:13). Therefore, the Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit from its beginning. Therefore it is the "Church authority" in proclaiming the Truth to the faithful. Part B
---ml on 7/2/06


MaryLouise - You keep saying that Peter is the rock, but that is not true. Jesus is the Rock. 1 Corinthians 10:4 says "And all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them; and that Rock was Christ". For Peter to be the Rock he would have to be God.
---Helen_5378 on 7/1/06


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Infallibility: concerns the formally revealed truths of Christian Doctrine in regard to faith and morals, as well as those not formally revealed, but tied closely to teaching of Revelation. Pope is infallible when he speaks "ex cathedra." All Bishops (whole Episcopate) are when they propose a teaching to be held by all the faithful. They are successors of the apostles of Jesus and in the Church built by Jesus on Peter, the Rock. Part A
---MaryLouise on 7/1/06


Herb-( why was she so wrong about something so simple? Should not the "Holy See" have known?) How is trying to see what books are inspired so simple, there were many Gospels,Epistles, some of the Church's of that time consider inspired like Gospels according to the Hebrews, St Paul's Epistles to the Laodiceans etc..no one had decide which books were canonical or not, the Church step in.
---ruben on 6/29/06


Herb-( 1)If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible, being infallible, then why did Rome reject or question the inspiration of James and Hebrews , then later accept it? ) The first of books they considered "Canonical" were books written by the Apostles or Evangelists, so James and Hebrews were being toss around some, by the power of the Holy Spirit it was added as Canonical.
---ruben on 6/29/06


"why were the two synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage, (397 AD) African councils, and not initiatives of Rome"

This is pretty typical of the way the Church is today. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops meets once a year. Certain decisions they make are sent on to Rome for approval or change.

Hippo and Carthage Bishops got together regularly to discuss African issues. But, just as today local issues can affect the whole Catholic Church, so too it was back then.
---MaryLouise on 6/29/06


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RevHerbsSon: How was it exactly determined what books belong in the Bible to start with? Did a list drop down out of heaven already written? Was (like a book for morons) a typical edition found in a box in the woods? Did one of the apostles have a vision?
---Jack on 6/28/06


I will post more at a later time...Got to get busy around the house...Love you all.
---RevHerbsSon on 6/28/06


Since the synod Carthage in 393 AD stated, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon", does this not prove that Rome had no direct input or initiative in determining the canon.
Since the two synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage, (397 AD) were under the control of what would later become the "orthodox church", how can the Roman Catholic church claim they determined the Canon? Would not such a claim be more naturally due the Eastern Orthodox church?
---RevHerbsSon on 6/28/06


If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible in 397 AD, then why did many different versions of canons continue to circulate long afterwards? If the Roman Catholic church gave us the Bible, why were the two synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage, (397 AD) African councils, and not initiatives of Rome?
---RevHerbsSon on 6/28/06


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If the Orthodox church gave the world the Bible, being infallible, then why did the eastern churches reject or question the inspiration of Revelation, then later accept it? Conversely, the east accepted as scripture books that were later rejected. If the Orthodox church really is illuminated by the Holy Spirit so that men can trust her as "God's organization", why was she so wrong about something so simple?
---RevHerbsSon on 6/28/06


OK you asked for it: 1)If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible, being infallible, then why did Rome reject or question the inspiration of James and Hebrews , then later accept it? Conversely, Rome accepted as scripture books that were later rejected. If the Catholic church really is illuminated by the Holy Spirit so that men can trust her as "God's organization", why was she so wrong about something so simple? Should not the "Holy See" have known?
---RevHerbsSon on 6/28/06


Rev Herb-("I have about 100 infailable questions that have yet to be answered by catholics." ~RevHerbsSon Okay, I'll bite. What's question number 1? ) I'll take the next question .
---ruben on 6/28/06


HELEN::your statement is incorrect.By lot do you mean 3-10 as against those who are christian,or born again or catholics who were once in the true faith & led astray, & become OSAS devoteees.
---Emcee on 6/28/06


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Herbs SON::From the tone of your stance & the ensueing trail you leave behind & your smooth delivery, I am sure you have a thousand questions for Catholics,but like other predecesssors with oily deliverys, to harvest in the vineyard of the Lord is not a good occupation even as a volunteer.Satan found that out to his detriment in Genesis3:14
---Emcee on 6/28/06


NurseRobert - Has it ever occurred to you to look closer at the Blogs that you listed and see that a lot of them in fact were put there by Catholics themselves.
---Helen_5378 on 6/28/06


MP-Jack::Thank you for pointing out my TYPO error which should read MANY NOT Mary.I apologise & stand corrected.It really does not matter whether some people criticise Or Bash Or Disagree The quote is in Keeping with the situation Prevailing.The words of CHRIST amply demenstrotate the actions on this blog by some who caution this is not A place for RC.I thought we come together in Brother hood .Thank you for hearing MHO
---Emcee on 6/27/06


"I have about 100 infailable questions that have yet to be answered by catholics." ~RevHerbsSon

Okay, I'll bite. What's question number 1?

(BTW, I think that everyone who is not Catholic also needs to consider that they might be wrong.)
---MaryLouise on 6/27/06


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MP::Thank you for pointing out my TYPO error which should read MANY NOT Mary.I apologise & stand corrected.It really does not matter whether some people criticise Or Bash Or Disagree The quote is in Keeping with the situation Prevailing.The words of CHRIST amply demenstrotate the actions on this blog by some who caution this is not A place for RC.I thought we come together in Brother hood .Thankyou for hearing MHO
---Emcee on 6/27/06


Herb's son, are you saying that you speak for God?
---NurseRobert on 6/27/06


Nurse, the reason I "singled out" the Pope is because he is the most visible, the example, the one the Catholics and many non-Catholics are watching.
---Debbie on 6/27/06


I am not coming in here to bash catholics, this month is mormonism, but I do want whoever is catholic in here to concider the fact they may be wrong. Eternity depends on it. Oh and if someone comes back at me claiming the catholic church is the right church I have about 100 infailable questions that have yet to be answered by catholics. So please, just head the warnings of the Lord and pray about it. Eve walked close with God at one time to but she was decieved.

Moderator - Are you Herb's son?
---RevHerbsSon on 6/27/06


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Debbie, I was wondering why singled out the Pope. You are right, God will deal with the Pope, as well as you and me, in his way.
---NurseRobert on 6/27/06


The big difference, Mike, is that the JW and Mormons do not believe that Jesus is God. The Mormons also believe that someday all good Mormons will be like God.

The Catholics, on the other hand, believe that Jesus is the son of God and that he died for our sins, as you should know.

I know many fine Christians who are Catholics.
---NurseRobert on 6/27/06


For the record, I was not meaning to bash Catholics. There are many Christian Catholics. There are many that are filled with the Spirit. I was simply asking a Scriptural question. Whether a woman has her head covered is an individual thing between her and God, and I imagine God is able to deal with the Pope on this matter. Only God knows whether Jesus is the Head of the Catholic Church, and if He isn't, He needs to be.
---Debbie on 6/27/06


NurseRobert, if a Mormon or JW came on these blogs and started to spout forth their false doctrines, would I be bashing them for pointing out their errors?
As an ex-RCC, I know the errors of the church, and am not bashing them. When they speak the truth, rarely, I applaud them.
The Bible warns against the lieing doctrines of demons.
---mike8384 on 6/27/06


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and BTW, Im NOT Catholic.

As for RevHerbsson. You have proven yourself by your words. I pray for you.
---NurseRobert on 6/27/06


Part III. I am sure that you have read most of these and so you should be able to see the anti-catholic bias that runs through all of them.

You yourself demonstrate this in your postings. I am sure that, deep in your heart, you are sincere. You don't want to "love them" into hell, but I dont see you loving them into heaven either. Perhaps you should go back and read 1 Corinthians 13.
---NurseRobert on 6/27/06


Part II

Catholics That Read Their Bible (12)
Mary As A Continual Virgin (24)
Anti-Christ Working With Christian (18)
Can I Pray To Mary (100)
Priests On The Sex Offender List (15)
Believe Catholics Or Christians (82)
Only Catholic Church For Salvation (87)
Must We Worship Mary
Saints In Heaven Intercede For Us

My question to Debbie was a valid one.
<
---NurseRobert on 6/27/06


Part I

Helen.. There are a number of blogs on this site simply to bash Catholics. The most recent include:

Do Popes Still Buy Their Postions (0)
Should We Pray To Mother (11)
Should The Pope Cover His Head (16)
Are Figurines Graven Images (13)
Is The Pope Perfect (23)
Believe The Bible Or The Pope (57)
---NurseRobert on 6/27/06


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I guess that Emcee just hit a wrong key and meant to say many not Mary. I hope so anyway.
---M.P. on 6/27/06


WOW Helen!!! I like you already. You hear the homosexuals whine-Your bashing me. You hear the catholics whine-Your bashing me. Is it us that is bashing or the words of the Lord. But I agree with Helen. It is more love to tell someone they are heading for hell then to let them go...would you not say Nurse? And as far as the pope? No he should not wear a hat. He should give it to me so I can sell it on e bay. :)~
---RevHerbsSon on 6/27/06


NurseRobert - Why do have the need to accuse Debbie of "catholic bashing". You brought this up once before on another Blog and directed it at me. I can only assume that you are on the side of the Catholics, if not one yourself. I for one will not love them into hell --- love will tell them the truth then it is up to them who they chose to follow, Mary or Jesus. I for one do not want to be accountable to Almighty God for having NOT told them.
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


What is it to you how another christian dresses before the Lord? I would be concerned if a man of pope's standing was indecently dressed but for the covering the head or the whole body is up to him. Lets be more concerned over matters that are important to our relationship with God.
---Maryanne on 6/27/06


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When we ask questions like this that ask: Do you THINK that God approves, etc., The word THINK insinuates "to give your opinion."

Secondly, how are we supposed to know what God thinks? Most Christians don't think like God thinks. His thoughts are HIGHER than our thoughts, so why ask "what do you think God thinks" if His thoughts are NOT our thoughts, His thoughts are HIGHER than our thoughts. Amen? Make Sense? I think so.
---Donna9759 on 6/27/06


Debbie, do you feel it's right to bash Catholics?
---NurseRobert on 6/27/06


Emcee--Please give some kind of documenation for this quote. It's too vague to be helpful.

WHEN is Mary supposed to have said this?

TO WHOM?

WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES?
---Jack on 6/27/06


If he's wearing that huge Mitre, I just hope he's not sitting in front of me at the movies!
---NV_Barbara on 6/27/06


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God does not even recognise the pope so what difference does it make. The "office" of "pope" was made up by the devil himself to lead millions of people astray into hell.
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


Jack - Wake up. It is the catholics who love the pope, not us born-again Christians who love Jesus. I do not see it as "catholic bashing" -- the catholics come here with their false doctrines and Christians are telling them the truth that is all. Those who call is "catholic bashing" I notice never step in to correct them.... are you going to love them to hell?
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


Anglican bishops, leaders of Greek and Russian Orthodox churches etc. wear head-dresses. Many young boys in various churches keep on their baseball caps in church and very few women wear hats or veils of any description when attending church these days (I for one do not). I don't know the answer to your question, whether it is still important or whether many of us are being disobedient but I think your question should not be fixed just on the Pope. (I am not R.C. btw.)
---emg on 6/27/06


It is part of our calling as Christians to not only give a word of hope but to point out that which goes against the word of God as well. Women's hair is as their covering. Men are not to pray with their head covered as they are the image of Christ our Lord. If a person in a pastoral position makes doctrines and commandments of men their head they might as well cover their head as they have just made man their head instead of the Lord.
---Shari on 6/26/06


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Jack::Jesus said Mary will persecute you in my name.& he that is not with me is against me.All bible scholars know the words of Jesus to Peter & successors .This is where denial & misrepresentation overrides the written word by an Edited edition with a +or-.Oh YE of little Faith.
---Emcee on 6/26/06


Jack has a great point.

Besides, who cares what the pope wears. It is between him and God.
---Madison1101 on 6/26/06


I don't suppose the truth of the matter will be of interest to most of the people who post here, but if you watch papal masses, there are certain times of solemn prayer where both mitre and zuchetto are removed.

In any case, the Greek word in 1 Cor 11:4 means VEIL, not the general word for headdress.

OTOH, how many WOMEN here wear a veil in church? Hmmmmmm?????
---Jack on 6/26/06


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