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Should We Pray To Mother

Should we pray to Mary our mother?

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I serve one master Christ (The Spiritual Rock - Christs Church is His Spiritual Being not a building as you have been taught)

I've provided Gods Truth but you cling to your traditions ...you serve your organization

The simplicity in Christ ...impossible to serve God and a religious system Luke 16:13

If you truly beleive Mary is to be worshiped prayed to adored, or whatever, you serve your religious order NOT God and this helps me understand why you believe I have a vendetta
---Rhonda on 3/25/08


thank you Holly!! Perfect scriptures you chose to answer Emcee
---Rhonda on 3/25/08


**
Rhonda:: Your vendetta against mary and Jesus Church in Matt16:17-19
**

Yes Emcee I am against you THROUGH Gods Truth ...your misunderstanding of Matt 16 makes you believe everyone is against you ...this is why you believe I have a vendetta to you ...you hold fast to your religious teachings

I hold fast to Gods Truth so I don't beleive you have it out for me and I use Gods Truth for people who are misguided distorting Gods Truth to serve their religious systme
---Rhonda on 3/25/08


Col 1:24-25 (Paul speaking) I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you...

The body of Christ (the believers) is the church, not a building or religious organization.
---Holly4jc on 3/25/08


1 Peter 2:4-6
Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

"Behold, I lay in Zion, a chief cornerstone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame."
---Holly4jc on 3/25/08




Per Emcee: You show me anywhere in the Gospels where He calls another intitution my church

Jesus never calls any institution "the church" because it is the body of believers that constitute the church, His church, it is not an institution, organization or building.
---Holly4jc on 3/25/08


Rhonda:: Your vendetta against mary and Jesus Church in Matt16:17-19 is of your making in YOUR belief that the RCCis an organisation.NO--it is Jesus Church He calls it "MY CHURCH"You show me anywhere in the Gospels where He calls another intitution my church or the fact That He will be with His church till the end of Time Matt.28:20Hence, I conclude You call yourself a christian by YOUR standard not The standard of JESUS CHRIST."Those not with me are against me"
---Emcee on 3/25/08


There are no dead people in heaven.
---Greyrider on 3/25/08


R/H/F::You 3 may wail,rail, and holler,but the WORD in Matt16,17-19 IS HIS word no make believe, even by your denial or the rest of denominational cohorts.But His word will STAND till HE decides to make a change which is Impossible what HE says is everlasting.His word agaist all the wailing Banshees within and out the Gates shall NOT prevail.You cannot set the H/S against God which is what you are attempting.They are all ONE
---Emcee on 3/25/08


Intercessory prayer is Scriptural

Job 16:21
Isaiah 62:6-7
Lamentations 2:18-19
Romans 1:9
2 Corintians 1:11
Ephesians 6:18-20
1 Thess 5:25
2 Thess 3:1-2

Is Mary alive or dead?
Do you REALLY believe in eternal life?
When Jesus talked about heaven, was He lying?
---Greyrider on 3/25/08




***
I am still here,proving to you that every word you utter is False and contrary to His TRUTH
**

Emcee
"His Truth" for you is unfortunate... beliefs fed to you from programming SUPERIMPOSED OVER Gods Truth ...your "religious interpretations" contradict Gods Plain Truth

you cannot serve God of the Holy Bible AND serve your religious organization

Mary worship serves your religion NOT Almighty God of The Holy Bible
---Rhonda on 3/24/08


I believe we are all programmed from birth to believe certain things, whether they are true or not true, but it happens to all of us. As we grow older, we are presented with opportunities to find out what lies we have been taught and to seek out the truth. Of course, in order to come to the knowledge of the truth of Jesus, the Father must draw us. And let's not forget, that we always have free will to stay stuck in the lies and reject the truth.
---Holly4jc on 3/24/08


Emcee, Yes you keep repeating the same verse as if you have been pre-programmed. And we keep on coming back to you with the truth about the Greek language of that verse. Perhaps you once lived in a Communist regime and they did things to you..Emcee? Or are you someone who enjoys the lies as in 2 Thess 2. In the first case you can hope for salvation.
---frances008 on 3/24/08


Can I just let Holly know, it was me not Emcee who mentioned brain-washing from birth, and he is the one who refutes the possibility.
---frances008 on 3/24/08


1) all your words of head Brain washing from birth...per Emcee...

Emcee...I was raised Jewish and now am a Christian, so I was not "brainwashed" from birth as you say. God revealed the truth of who Jesus was to me when I was 36 years old. That is hardly "from birth". And if I, a Jew, was willing to believe the truth, much different that I was taught (from birth) than surely you, a Catholic, should be willing to learn the truth. You have no idea how difficult it was for...
---Holly4jc on 3/24/08


2) ...me to even speak the name of Jesus when I got saved, being a Jew. For I grew up in a household where you never, ever spoke of Jesus, unless someone used it as a curse word. If you said the name Jesus, it was as if you were speaking of Hitler. But, with all that kind of "brainwashing" needing to be undone, the TRUTH prevailed and I was willing to accept the truth, even though it went against EVERYTHING I was brought up to believe. The TRUTH won over the lies of the enemy.
---Holly4jc on 3/24/08


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No, we are not supposed to pray to Our Mother in the same way we pray to God. However, Our Mother may be requested to intercede on our behalf with her son, Jesus Christ. If seeking intercession amounts to prayer, then yes, we should pray to Our Mother.
---Carlton on 3/24/08


Ladies::If my answer is as you call it Untrue why do you respond? Just ignore.But Gods TRUTH is contained in Matt16:17-19 and Genesis 3:15and some of the other verses Quoted which you CANNOT refute because God said "My word will stand"I repeat His word.all your words of head Brain washing from birth do not fit the Bill of confusion you utteror sputter.
---Emcee on 3/23/08


Frances008:The Catholic church is of God by apostolic succession Matt 16:17-19 HIS word.You were once a Catholic How much will power did it take for you to apostate.Thank you for comparing me to a deer DEAR,but I am not puzzled, shake, or tremble, in the glare of your headlights. I am still here,proving to you that every word you utter is False and contrary to His TRUTH.
---Emcee on 3/23/08


Emcee, the Communists distrusted their leaders and knew that they had only to put on the TV to get the latest propaganda and lies. The Catholic Church starts with you in the cradle. They wet your head with water, and declare you their own property to be mind controlled until death. It takes a lot of will to want to be free from them. The Catholics I talk to if you mention the word 'truth' they become like deer caught in headlights. They shake, tremble, and then try to flee.
---frances008 on 3/23/08


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Emcee, I can't appreciate your belief when it contradicts Gods Truth ...I have showed you where your beliefs contradict Gods Word ...providing dozens of scriptures ...I proved Gods Word is more powerful then your belief ..

if it fancy's you to make up poems RATHER than prove your point through Gods Word it certainly demonstrates how little your belief can stand up to the power of Gods Word

..you choose the love for your belief in Mary as a goddes, and your orgnaization OVER Gods Truth
---Rhonda on 3/23/08


Frances and Company::AS long as the question deserves a truthful answer would be my Guess.If you desire to deny the questioner you may do so But TRUTH will be spoken its God's Word.I am too old to be angry,anger is a privelege of the young and restless.Did I write the question LADIES?Tut Tut.Ifthe glove dont fit, & you dont admit. THEN You must aquit. JC.No pressue Just Truth.
---Emcee on 3/22/08


How long are these anti-Bible questions going to keep coming up? Mary is not my mother, she might be yours, and if you idol worship her you will not be going to the Wedding Banquet where there will be One Bride and One Groom. Jesus is the Groom and the Church is his Bride. No idolators will be there.
---frances008 on 3/21/08


Emcee: If you want Mary the mother of Jesus to be your spiritual mother, then so be it. I have a mother, while she may be with God, I can tell you it isn't Mary. That is fine if you believe that way. But do not push your beliefs onto others when they don't believe that way. Pushing your beliefs onto someone else is childish and uncalled for. You can believe that Mary is your spiritual mother but don't get mad when someone doesn't have the same beliefs.
---Rebecca_D on 3/20/08


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Rebecca
Amen - Both posts on John 19:27 very well written

Emcee
**You may continue to live in the OT.It is your choice The Jews still do**

Without the OT it would be impossible to understand and intrepret the NT as Christ Himself quotes often from His Word of the OT
---Rhonda on 3/20/08


RebeccaD:: You had your chance but declined I am also a disciple and I Choose Her as My spiritual MOTHER as she was created BY God as in the Holy Trinity. His dying word"Behold Your Mother' has the meaning of Mother to Me. This I believe with all my Heart and is my Privilege.You may and have excercised your opinion in denial.
---Emcee on 3/20/08


Emcee: Yes I am a disciple of Christ, but that still doesn't make Mary my spiritual mother. Because I wasn't the disciple Christ was talking to at the cross. It was John, Christ was talking to John. Are you John? I'm not John. John 19:27, Jesus told John Behold thy Mother, then John took Mary into his own home. Jesus leaves to him the duty of taking care of Mary and be a son to him. Jesus didn't say to all my disciples, now and from now this is your mother. No, Emcee, Jesus looked at John and only John.
---Rebecca_D on 3/20/08


RebeccaD:: Mary would most certainly be your spiritual mother IF you were a disciple of Jesus. ARE YOU?She is mother to all her SON's disciples Jn19:27. But the choice is yours it is optional.
---Emcee on 3/20/08


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DDMartin:You may continue to live in the OT.It is your choice The Jews still do.
---Emcee on 3/20/08


My spiritual mother is Sarah.
God told Abraham he'd become a Father of MANY Nations.
Likewise Our Faith, believing God, IS the same Faith as Abraham had when he Believed God and was willing to Sacrifice/Kill his ONLY son Issac.
Because of this, Abraham was called a Friend of God,WE Christians are Sons & Daughters of God.
Weve been ADOPTED by the Spirit & the Blood of Jesus!
WE are the 1st fruits of Gods Plan:To be given to his Son at the Marriage Supper.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 3/20/08


Rebecca ... I was just about to say the same thing, but you have saved me the trouble and doen it so much better.
---alan_of_UK on 3/20/08


I have no idea why people takes scriptures and twists them around. Jesus told his disciple that this was his mother so he could take care of her as if she was his own mother. Jesus told Mary his mother this disciple was his son. The bible says from that hour he took her to his own home. Meaning it was now his responsibility to take care of Mary. Joseph was already dead at this point. For the love of God, Mary the mother of Jesus is not our spiritual mother.
---Rebecca_D on 3/19/08


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In the book of Matthew Jesus is told his Mother and brothers are there to see him, his reply was, those around him doing his fathers work were more important. Mary was his earthly Mother, afterwards she was the same as anyother women, a servant of the lord.
Jesus stated he is the only way.
---Mark on 3/19/08


1)
**Mary "here is your mother" He is giving Mary to ALL His disciples as our spiritual mother***

It takes a wildly filled imagination coupled with religious brainwashing to SEE where mankind is to "pray to" Mary in this verse

...using and twisting one verse to serve a religious establishments idolatrous worship is foolish (clearly there is nothing in that verse telling mankind to pray to Mary)
---Rhonda on 3/19/08


3)
Matt 6:9 is Gods instruction to mankind on how to PRAY TO HIM ...notice how it does NOT mention Mary here? God is not the author of confusion 1Corin 14:33

deceptive religious systems create confusion using Gods Word turning many away from God and after traditions of men and those traditions have decieved many into praying to the flesh and blood Mary who was Christs earthly mother (nothing more and nothing less)
---Rhonda on 3/19/08


Spiritual blindnes happens when those who do not accept Gods teachings as being HIS word.Find an alternative interpretation not necessairly in a church.eg acceptance of artificial Birtn control,Denial of His word Reg. His mother if as Greyrider says he gave her to HIS DISCIPLES are we not His disciples as well, so by rote she becomes our Heavenly Mother Too? BUT NO it is unacceptable.
---Emcee on 3/7/08


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Scripture is obvious here. In John 19:26-27, John refers to himself as "the disciple Jesus loves". Obviously Jesus does not love one of His disciples more than others. Whenever this saying is used, we are to take the surrounding teaching to refer to ALL Jesus' disciples, since He loves us all. When Jesus says to "the disciple He loves" in reference to Mary "here is your mother" He is giving Mary to ALL His disciples as our spiritual mother.
---Greyrider on 3/7/08


Those that believe that Mary is our mother and that we should pray to her is foolish thinking on their part. No where in the bible does it say that Mary is our mother and we are to pray to her. I have a mother which is with the Lord. It is pointless for me to pray to her, when she can't do anything.
---Rebecca_D on 3/5/08


Spiritual blindness is what alot of people in the church have today...they cannot discern the truth of the Word of God because they have been blinded by Satan and they believe lies, such as religious, man-made doctrines that are contrary to the Word of God
---Holly4jc on 3/3/08




Can you please tell me where and who gave you the authorithy over scripture and Mark that goes to you as well.
---Ruben on 3/5/08


If it was Mary, Jesus's mother, then we would never be told to pray to her. Therefore it is some other personage/goddess. The guady high places (beautiful cathedrals all over France) are well aware that it is the Black Madonna, an Egyptian goddess that is worshipped therein. These statues or pictures were brought with/by the Knights Templar from the various pagan shrines where they worshipped Baal at.
---frances008 on 3/5/08


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Now Emcee, if you just remember what you preach, "It's God's way are no Way" "It is God who will judge our actions in life" as you said, "You either have Him are you don't" for "He is the Truth." And that is revealed to me by the Holy Spirit through His Word.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/08


Thank you Mark V. :-)
---Holly4jc on 3/5/08


MarkV::Who am I to disagree,you speak like one who is self determined as infallible. Speaking the word and keeping the word is only Known to God,to cite an example, Matt.16:17-19:JN.6:52-58.Man and woman are required to live by HIS interpretation, of His law not the transalation of Mans deduction.You either belong or you dont.One does not argue on these points.In short its GOD's way or NO WAY.God is the judge not mesee or emcee.I close my case to your home schooled derivitives.The right H/S guides Amen.
---Emcee on 3/5/08


Emcee, I take correction very well, But you are mistaken. She was speaking the truth, and she was because it came from the word of God. Some don't always speak the truth because they are speaking for their denomination and not for or from the Word of God. But I want to remind you, that Holly does have the Truth, for Christ is the Truth, and she Has the Word, other don't have the Word or the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/08


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MarkV:: The truth is not in sister Holly but in the word of God. (per Emcee)

And thank you Emcee for pointing out the truth is in the Word of God...because I only go by the Word of God...not according to man-made doctrines or by what the Pope says. That is why I always quote the Word of God...to show where I get my beliefs from...directly from His Word, no where else. You're right, I have no truth in and of myself, so I rely totally on the Word of God...the ONLY TRUTH there is.
---Holly4jc on 3/4/08


If you pray to idols, like the Madonna, you are opening yourself up to complete takeover by demons. You won't be able to discern truth from falsehood, you will follow the wrong leader, you will be led into all kinds of inhuman atrocities, including killing your children in wars caused by your leader.
---frances008 on 3/4/08


The Bible says NOT to pray to angels or saints. This is called idolitry- worship of false gods and idols. Worship and pray to Jesus Christ ONLY.
---Leslie on 3/4/08


True there are many religious denominations - even today within the almighty established church there is much conflict with many of their churches choosing what they will follow or tweaking it just a little here and a little there ...Mary devotion is a sin ...God was clear about idol worship ...shrines and prayers for Mary are against Gods Word
---Rhonda on 3/4/08


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mankinds pride follows religious traditions ignoring Gods Word - those who follow Mary do so because they are told to and Gods Word is of little concern

Catechism 892, 2037, 2050
Pope is infallible - catholics expected to obey Pope without question submitting their wills minds to Pope

When religious traditions, concepts conflict with Gods Word it's up to the individual to evaluate whether they choose to follow men a religious organization or Christ ...their eternal destiny is at stake ...
---Rhonda on 3/4/08


Gods Truth

Proverbs 14:12 ...There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death

Acts 5:29 ...apostles answered and said: We ought to obey God rather than men

The pride of mankind holding fast to religious brainwashing allowing themselves to be led by men or religious organizations that are deceiving many people - ONLY the Bible is Truth

Mary worship, Marion devotion, praying to around or through Mary is not in Gods Word
---Rhonda on 3/4/08


MarkV:: The truth is not in sister Holly but in the word of God.There are none so blind who cant see but WON'T see.Seek First God and HIS Mercy then ALL will be added unto you.I say this out of love not condemnation.Pride is one of the idols of this New Covenant.Read collosians 3:5
---Emcee on 3/4/08


Peoples' consciences have been seared as by a hot iron. That means they no longer have any awareness of when something is right or wrong. That means they can break everyone of the Ten Commandments and find a justification for it. That means God means very little to them, in fact they are going to nullify God if possible. Not a good idea. I am sticking to the winning side.
---frances008 on 3/3/08


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Sister Holly, you are so right on your answer about Mary, that she was a sinner. It would sound great for the RCC to claim she was not, and to all those who worship her. They already having her answering prayers from heaven. But claiming she was sinless only contradicts what she said herself. She claimed to be a sinner. She was an honest women, a virgin at that, but in need of a Savior just like everyone else.
---Mark_V. on 3/3/08


Rhonda::"WHAT is GODS truth"?if you say its HIS word Then why are there so many Denominations and so many untruths called TRUTHS where does Matt16:17-19 stand it is Gods WORD."this above ALL to thine own self be true.BTW thank you for your advice.
THIS MAN
No one falls in love by chance it is by Choice
No one staysin love by chance it is by WORK
No one falls out of love by chance it is by choice caused by disullision.
---Emcee on 3/3/08


You won't have your spiritual eyes opened by trusting in the doctrine of devils, the Nicolaitans or anyone else. You need the Holy Spirit to do the work to open your eyes. I needed the Holy Spirit to open my eyes. I did not realize it at the time, nevertheless, without praying for it, my eyes suddenly were opened. First I learnt the truth about the Conspiracy and then I traced it to the RCC.
---frances008 on 3/3/08


Holly::Spiritual blindness is in Jn9:35that is why people do not understand Gen3:15
---Emcee on 3/3/08


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SO HOLLY::Are you actually agreeing with me or just repeating what I said.Your post shows no rebuttal just a reaffermation.
---Emcee on 3/3/08


Read your Commandments...Exodus 20: 1-6.. when you worship her, you put her importance over God's importance..can Mary save your soul? No..only Jesus can do that..and only God is worthy of worship..no mortal human being, is worthy of such worship. Mary is special because she gave birth to our Savior and was a rightous woman..but that is it.
---Lee on 3/3/08


...it is called spiritual blindness.Read Gen3:15
---Emcee on 3/3/08

Spiritual blindness is what alot of people in the church have today...they cannot discern the truth of the Word of God because they have been blinded by Satan and they believe lies, such as religious, man-made doctrines that are contrary to the Word of God or they are not saved at all (but think they are because they go to church), so they cannot understand the things of God.
---Holly4jc on 3/3/08


frances with small f:: It is not an idea it is a "truth given to those who are blind but can see, but not to people who have eyes and do not see".To really acknowledge God you must trust like the man who was born Blind from Birth but yet saw His maker in Jesus.JN9:35-41it is called spiritual blindness.Read Gen3:15
---Emcee on 3/3/08


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Emcee you should take heed to your own advise seeking guidance yourself - it's in Gods Truth NOT in the established church its false idolatry worship ...I follow Christ and His Word NOT religious teachings as I posted in another blog today ...God gave truth to Adam and Eve and just like mankind today (they didn't believe what He said) Instead, they believed what Satan said ...Satan wants mankind focused on the religious systems of the world NOT GODS TRUTH
---Rhonda on 3/1/08


2 The human concept all are born into sin is true (EXCEPT-what God creates)-Emcee 2/29/07

Emcee...we are ALL created by God, not just Adam and Eve and Mary. God has created all of us, yet not all of us are children of God.

Colossians 1:16
FOR BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
---Holly4jc on 3/1/08


1) Per Emcee...The human concept all are born into sin is true(EXCEPT-what God creates)so the automatic visualition is mary is also with sin. This is satan who sullies and nullifys the word and mind of Unbelievers.They will not undersand as they only see uniformity in a worldly concept.

All humans having sinned is not a human or worldly concept....it is a Biblical fact:

Romans 3:23
for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...
---Holly4jc on 3/1/08


2) 1 John 1:8

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Emcee...yes, Satan has twisted the Word of God alright...he has convinced many people that Mary was without sin, pure and perfect just like Jesus, CONTRARY to what the Word of God says. But, the Word of God also says this about Satan:
---Holly4jc on 3/1/08


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3 John 8:44b He (Satan) was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Jesus even calls Satan the father of lies...for He knows that Satan twists things to make people believe a lie (just like in the Garden of Eden). Mary being without sin is a downright lie, it is not in the Bible and just a man-made doctrine (initiated by the father of lies).
---Holly4jc on 3/1/08


Emcee "receptacle of His son"
???
You are begging to sound like Eloy, and his beleif that Mary was just a rent-a-womb.
---alan_of_UK on 3/1/08


NO!
Mary is Human that found favor with God,
Just like many others in the Bible.
Matt.12:
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, "Who IS my mother?" and "who ARE my brethren?"
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For "whosoever" shall do "the will of my Father" which is in heaven, "the same" IS my brother, and sister, and mother.
This says it ALL!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 3/1/08


Greyrider: it takes alot of overinterpretation to come to your conclusions about Mary. The Bible says she would be called blessed among women. Nothing about her being the "eternal evangelist" (especially with the way you define it). Comparing this to the trinity is like apples and oranges. You are preaching the traditions of men as the commandments of God. If you want to know who to pray to, pray the Lord's prayer. And no need for Rosary beads. He hears you without them just fine.
---j._nonymous on 2/29/08


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Greyrider: Where in the Bible does it say that Mary is our "Mediatrix" or that her role in our salavation is as the eternal evangelist?

Book, Chapter, and Verse please.
---j._nonymous on 2/29/08


I disagree with Gordon on the Holy Spirit being the Queen of Heaven. If so why did the prophet Jeremiah condemn the Jews for idol worshipping the Queen of Heaven. Surely, Gordon, this is a back door for the Catholic idea of the pagan Goddess Isis, Diana, (and a host of other names used by various religions.)
---frances008 on 2/29/08


Where does the idea that Mary was without sin come from? The RCC. We learn from Scripture that no human being born is without sin. I could accept that Jesus was perfect when he was born, but not Mary. But even Jesus must have had original sin because he was 'made sin' that he might 'put sin to death'.
---frances on 2/29/08


Look for Gods WILL why Mary created1.Satans interference caused Mary's CREATION specifically as the receptacle of His son even unto death. He was GOD Purity.Hence Marys purity is in the fullest meaning of the word.no sin in Heaven/Jesus.2The human concept all are born into sin is true(EXCEPT-what God creates)so the automatic visualition is mary is also with sin.This is satan who sullies and nullifys the word and mind of Unbelievers.They will not undersand as they only see uniformity in a worldly concept.
---Emcee on 2/29/08


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j._nonymous, is Mary human or divine in your eyes? If she is human, she is called to be an evangelist as are ALL Christ's followers (Matt 28:19-20). As far as being Mediatrix, no, the "word" doesn't appear in the bible. So I can safely assume you don't believe in the Trinity either since THAT word doesn't appear either. Correct?
---Greyrider on 2/29/08


Greyrider: Where in the Bible does it say that Mary is our "Mediatrix" or that her role in our salavation is as the eternal evangelist?

Book, Chapter, and Verse please.
---j._nonymous on 2/29/08


Rhonda::What you have said in your Para 3is of your understanding Not that of the RCCor mine.Your failure to comprehend Gen3:15 is your folly,as you talk like the restMatt11:25 demonstrates that.The knowledge is granted to those who Truly believe.Sorry I cannot make it clearer.
---Emcee on 2/28/08


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