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What Are Our Rights As Christians

As the righteousness of God, what do we have a right to according to scriptures?

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 ---Rickey on 6/27/06
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1 Cor. 6:19,20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The "I" that existed before we were saved, has no rights, but the "I" that exists after being born again has the right to the kingdom.
---Debbie on 3/23/07


Thank you Linda (and others) for yuor kind comments.
I appreciate that you did not mean to imply that if we have proper faith, we will be freed from our illnesses.
But if you read all that has been said on this and other previous blogs, this is a message that comes across from some, even if only a few.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


"Moderator ... Blogs # 3 7 9 & 11 have been omitted from the series I posted".
Moderator reply- "Please repost, we didn't receive them"
Thanks Mod, I do appreciate that if there is more than one Mod on duty at one time, some blogs may go to one for passing, and some to others, so they can get out of order.
They have now turned up, so there is no need to repost.
Thanks, anyway.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


"She was in greater and greater pain, but never once complained. She smiled and joked on her last conscious day. She said when we arrived in heaven later, we would all have a great party. When asked if she was afraid, she said no, because she knew where she was going."

That, my friend and brother, is hope that springs out of faith. Even just a little faith in a great big object (Jesus) is enough.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


Moderator ... Blogs # 3 7 9 & 11 have been omitted from the series I posted. I tried to repost, but they still do not appear. Did you see something offensive? I hope not. Maybe number 3 was too similar to the previous question, but the omission of number 9 leaves out an important part of my wife's story, and number 11 was a crucial question.
May I repost?

Moderator - Please repost, we didn't receive them.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06




She died from a virus that is very common and not even those medications she had been taking would have done anything about it. And yes, she continued to see the doctor the whole time and I still count her as a woman of faith just as I do your wife. I would never believe otherwise.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


At some point in time, you are going to have to release those who said those things so that you can hear others with clarity. I agree that there are people who make such statements but no one here is saying your wife (or anyone else) does not have faith or did not have faith. As for the lady I was talking about, she didn't die from not taking anti-rejection drugs (her doctor cut her back, not her).
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


"There are many whose faith has been shattered by other "Christians" who have said "You can't have proper faith, you can't be saved, because you have not been healed""

Alan, I believe you have heard this so many times from others that you just assume that everyone else says the same thing. I don't. Those people hurt you when they said those things but I am not those people and neither are the others on this blog.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


Alan, I think it sucks that you lost your wife and I am sorry for what you have had to endure because of that.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


From your accounts, I am absolutely sure your wife just peacefully slipped out of her body without a fight and went straight into the presence of the Lord. I do not believe one whit that she had no faith or had lost faith. If the object of her faith was Christ (and I am sure it was), then nothing was lost except her bodily presence here in this earth. I struggle to comfort you with these words but you can't seem to get past what you think I said.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06




Obviously she (and your wife by your account) still had faith or she would not have even had any hope left that she would go on to be with the Lord. You are up in arms over something I did not say.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


"You suggest she died because she lost faith, but from your account..."

I never said she nor your wife had no faith or lost faith. You can't find in any of my posts where I said that. I said that the lady I was talking about (since I never knew your wife) FAINTED in her mind. That is not losing faith, Alan. Faith is of the spirit, not the mind. Hope is of the mind.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


Good points Alan. I could not say it any better. So many stories of great Christians but they too died. Faith has nothing to do with their condition. Only God knows our time, and if someone last longer, it is because God wanted it that way for His purpose and will, and not ours. All we can do is pray for the sick and ill, and let God take over from there. That is our dependence on God that we show as Christians. Bless those words of yours Alan.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


# 11 God is giving us a new tool, just as He has given us X-rays, penicillin. Its remarkable how much healthier and how much longer people are nowadays. It seems to my mind to be as a result of medical advances, and not because we have greater faith if anything the level of faith had diminished markedly over the years.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


# 9 Now she did not give up ... her body just wasted away because it was impossible to eat or keep fluid down. Why did she die? Because she did not have faith that God would heal this physical malignity that was strangling her bowel and attacking other organs? Or because at that time there was no medical way to stop that cancer?
---alan on 6/30/06


# 7 She was in greater and greater pain, but never once complained. She smiled and joked on her last conscious day. She said when we arrived in heaven later, we would all have a great party. When asked if she was afraid, she said no, because she knew where she was going.
---alan on 6/30/06


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# 3 Did all the sailors in past centuries who drowned when their sailing vessels sank die because they had no faith or because they did not then have the benefit of safer vessels?
---alan on 6/30/06


# 11 God is giving us a new tool, just as He has given us X-rays, penicillin. Its remarkable how much healthier and how much longer people are nowadays. It seems to my mind to be as a result of medical advances, and not because we have greater faith if anything the level of faith had diminished markedly over the years.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


# 10 What makes me tell this story, painful to me, is that we now hear news that there is a new test, which it is hoped will be available which will alert those who are susceptible to bowel cancer, so they can take steps to avoid it.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


# 8 Her faith was real, but simple, nothing about whether she would be asleep or dead or in heaven until the Last Trump, or whatever the theologians calculate from Revelation will happen No worry about predestination or free will. No concern about the right day to worship. No worry about OSAS
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


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# 6 Now I knew a lady who died my dear wife. She had cancer, and chemotherapy treatment. The first session of 6 months, it worked, and she was in remission. Then after only 4 months, the cancer returned, in a more vicious form. She needed a different chemotherapy to try to stop that, and although this time there were all the horrible discomforts usaully associated with chemo, the treatment did not work... the cancer just galloped on.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


# 5 Your story about your friend is sad, but you do seem to acknowledge the value of the medication that she was on. Without this, I wonder whether the story would have gone on nearly so long. You suggest she died because she lost faith, but from your account, the prime cause was not taking the medication.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


# 4 How do we think about the deaths of those Christians from an earlier generation, who smoked, not knowing the danger, and not told by other Christians that it was a sin (for no-one then said smoking was a sin) Did they die because unknowingly they had poisoned and choked their lungs, or because they did not have faith to stop this physical thing that was assaulting them?
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


Linda ... # 2 Do your soldiers in Iraq dies because they don't have faith that the Humvee will protect them, or because the enemy gets a lucky shot in? Same with our men who are sent out irresponsibly in inadequately armoured Land Rovers, because our Government is too mean to buy better equipment?
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


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Linda ... # 1 I still find the idea that if only we have faith we will not be ill, and not die, very difficult to accept. There are various questions I would like to ask I hope you do not mind.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


2. I keep hearing Christians say that God does not want us to die, or be ill. If He is the Sovereign God of Scripture, as He is, if He wanted, He could heal everyone. He does what pleases Him. It pleased Him to put the curse and It will please Him when He is ready to remove it. He placed that curse Himself. If any of you have a different reason why He is unable to do what He wants, please tell me so I can learn something new today.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


I am with Alan, we cannot be held responsible for the death of others. This believe is so wrong and passages in Scripture have been twisted to show anyone can be healed. The curse of death is on everyone. It is about the will of God, not our will. He decreed it and it is still with us. Death.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


3. many here contribute the reason for no healing to faith. I can tell you that in my life I had the faith that many didn't have and in the end my wife died and so did my mom and sister. God is running the show. He is in control of His creation, man is not in control. If you lose someone in the family you will understand that it was not because of your faith, but because they are called.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


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2. We are alive in Christ, spiritually. We are healed of our infermities spiritually. We are made righeous because of Christ. But we are going to die because of the curse, yet alive in Christ forever spiritually.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


It does not matter what your faith is concerning the curse that was imputed to us all. The body is to get old and die. Death is still with us until Christ does away with it. No one escapes death. Many will die by different means and no one can stop it. You might get heal for a moment or so, but in the end you will die. No pastor or teacher can stop that. Even Mary who had Jesus died. The curse is on everyone concerning death. It does not matter if you are a Christian, you will die.
---Lupe2618 on 6/30/06


Dory ... I do not think anyone here has said that sickness is God's will. As you say it is because we are human, and we are in a body designed by God which is not immortal.
My point is that if we fall ill, God does NOT always heal us. There are many whose faith has been shattered by other "Christians" who have said "You can't have proper faith, you can't be saved, because you have not been healed"
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/30/06


The good news is that the enemy may be able to schedule our distraction but he cannot schedule our destruction because we have been redeemed from destruction. Whether we lay our bodies down or remain until His coming, Christ is victorious and we rest in hope of the glory of God.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


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Even Paul said that he would desire to be with the Lord but he knew that he was needed here to fulfill what God had saved him for. We still miss that sister in the Lord but we still hear her laughter even today. I believe in health, healing, and strength in Christ Jesus but I also know that the fight of faith can become very fierce because the enemy of our souls has no other purpose but to divide us individually and steal the hope of Christ appearing in us in His fullness.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


In the hospital, there was a lady praying over her and she reached up, grabbed her by the shirt, and said, "Let me go. I am so tired. Just let me go." Her request was honored, the prayers stopped, and she slipped into eternity. Was there shame in that? No. She was tired and desired to go. It would have been selfish on our parts to continue to pray against even what she had willed. DoryLory said it best.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


Over a period of time and believing God, she began to come off those medications one by one. After doing so well for some time, it was easy to get off guard and to forget that there was an enemy of her soul. That enemy found her weakness and preyed on it until, one day, she became sick again. The sickness was nothing more than a stomach virus but in her spiritually weakened state, she fainted in her mind and gave up.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


However, at the same time, there was a man in that same hospital who needed a heart. She willingly gave the one that was supposed to be hers because it was a tissue match for him also. Within a day, another heart arrived and she received it (the heart of a 28 year old male, young and strong), just in time. She came out of the hospital full of vitality (and bills paid) but on many medications to keep her from rejecting the heart.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


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I'm going to share briefly here because I believe it is relevant. There was a lady in our fellowship...wonderful lady full of the joy of the Lord and laughter, the best medicine. For something like 12 years, she waited on a heart transplant. During that time, she just kept going and going, believing God until, one day, she ended up in the hospital at the very same time her heart did.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


There is no shame in being willing to go on. None at all. In Christ, we all hold the same position...seated with Him in the heavenly places. That kinda puts a lid on the "better than anybody else" pot.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


"Alan, if die from sickness it will be because I'm human and got tired of the fight. I will never accept sickness as God's will...."

Amen DoryLory. Thank God we don't have to fight the sickness. Jesus did and won. The fight of faith is the fight that is fought and the most important aspect of that fight is not the faith itself but the object of faith, Jesus Christ, who has prevailed over death, hell, and the grave.
---Linda6563 on 6/30/06


There has always been a true church on earth. Jesus said, I will build MY church,and the gates of hades(the grave) shall not prevail against it Matthew 16;18. The true church is described as the body of christ Eph1;22-23 and it is to do the work of God. Matthew24;14 say,s And the gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a WITNESS to all the nations, and then the end will come.
---winna on 6/29/06


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Alan, if die from sickness it will be because I'm human and got tired of the fight. I will never accept sickness as God's will, just as I could never accept it was God's will for my baby to fall into a campfire 13 years ago. Bad things happen to good people. That's a fact of life. It doesn't make it God's will.
---DoryLory on 6/29/06


God doesn't need us more in heaven than He does here. He needs us here to get the Gospel of Jesus Christ out to lost souls.(Romans 10:14-17)
---Rickey on 6/29/06


We need to stop disputing over who's right or wrong. That's why so many folks don't want to come to Christ. Because they see "christians" disputing over little things. We need to be "kingdom-minded" instead of "church-minded". Being "church-minded" is just like being racist. And it's timeout for that mess!!!
---Rickey on 6/29/06


Heather hit it right on the money. Prosperity can be misunderstood as worldly gain. God has a purpose for us being wealthy. It's for kingdom business. The world is dying & the Gospel has to get out. Folks need money to do kingdom business. Just like a coorperation needs money, so does the church.
---Rickey on 6/29/06


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I truly agree that we should come boldly to his throne of grace but boldly as in "with full assurance" and not arogance or thinking we have any power. The power is God's manifested through Christ our precious Lord. The working is by his Spirit and not our voice. Proverbs says the ungodly say they will prevail with their own tongue. Psalms says to serve him with fear and trembling.
---Heater on 6/29/06


Dory ... How many are alive now who were alive 150 years ago? No, they all died, and most in pain and discomfort.
I pray for you that when your time comes, you will gladly accept that it is the Lord's will that you go Home.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/29/06


My remark was not to dispute Ricky and I agree with him however the prosperity can be misunderstood as worldly gain when in fact all of the followers of Christ that were not poor sold what they had and distribited to the poor so there would be on lack. The word says our soul should prosper. Soon when the anti-christ comes those who are rich may fall thinking God left them when they in fact left him long before.
---Heather on 6/29/06


"He who Humbles Himself shall be exaulted"The Lord having said that shows that while the promises awaiting you in the next life are yours, depending if you pass the grade in this life.Pride & arrogance will not sustain you.This is what the book says.HENCE the watch word IS HUMILITY.
---Emcee on 6/29/06


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Prosperity gospel plays well in materialistic western countries.

It wrongly assumes that because we have a POSITIONAL righteousness in Christ we thus have a prosperity-righteousness, and need to claim it. Thus it is the demonic family of materialism in different guises.

How does that message play in Chad, or Darfur?

Christians there suffer because they are Christians; it will NOT bring either them or their foes to Christ-- that is the bottom line.

Prosperity gospel reeks
---John_T on 6/29/06


Pt3
We have an enemy, Alan, and it's he who stands between us and the promises of God as smoke screen, trying to prevent us from possessing what the Lord says belongs to us. Just as the Israelites shouted at the walls of Jerico to come down in order to possess their promised land, so also are we to demand the walls and barricades to be removed from our lives, so that we are able to possess the promises our Father has given us.
---DoryLory on 6/29/06


Pt2
As for shouting demands at God ... I have a different perspective on this than you seem to have. Since God has given all these wonderful promises to us, His beloved, and says they are ours in Him, and since He is not holding out on us, then ... when we do not receive the promise there is something else preventing that promise from coming to pass.
---DoryLory on 6/29/06


Pt1 - Alan
First of all, I believe the Lord wants us to be bold with Him. He wants us to come before His throne boldly and with confidence to receive grace (which is unmerited favor) (Hebrews 4:16). He wants to bless us. His desire and nature is not to hold back.
---DoryLory on 6/29/06


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Heather, you are absolutely right when you say we are to be subject to the Lord and do His will. However, everything Rickey listed IS God's will. The Word of God is His Will. If you look up the verses Rickey quoted, it is very plain that His will for us is healing, His will for us is deliverance, His will for us is forgiveness, etc. etc. In seeking that which the Word says belongs to us, we are subjecting ourselves to His will.
---DoryLory on 6/29/06


Rickey ... then there can't have been too many believers over the last 2000 years. Did they all die without pain? Did they all have material wealth?
If you are honest, you will know most did not. I hope that if your material prosperity evaporates, or when your health, or that of those whom you love, fades, and when terminal pain and discomfort comes, that you do not curse God, saying He has betrayed you. (Sadly I have known those who have)
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/29/06


I think that the rights of the democratic nations has removed the fear of those who claim to be a part of our Lord's kingdom. We are saved by grace and have no "rights" in his kingdom. We are to be in subjection and do his will. The liberty spoken of in the word of God is a liberty from sin and death.
---Heather on 6/29/06


Alan8869ofUK - Every promise that is in God's Word is mine. It is mine only because I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. God did not write the Bible for Himself, He wrote it for us His children.
---Helen_5378 on 6/29/06


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We have a right to let the same mindset be in us that was also in Christ Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God.(Philippians 2:5-7) We, as God's children, are in God's class. We should considered ourselves that way too. Not as sinners saved by grace, but as the righteousness of God.(2Corinthians 5:21)
---Rickey on 6/28/06


The word promises believers prosperity(2Corinthians 8:9)
Healing(1Peter 2:24; 3John 2; Psalm 103:3)
Forgivness of sins(Romans 8:1; 1John 1:9; Isaiah 43:25)
Deliverance(Colossians 1:12)
---Rickey on 6/28/06


Righteousness-right-standing with God.
Righteousness-the ability to stand before God without the sense of guilt, condemnation, or inferiority.
John T & Alan search the scripture for yourselves & see what belongs to you as heirs of God & joint-heirs with Christ.
The promises of God are yes and amen(so be it).
---Rickey on 6/28/06


Nah, that would oppose the word. If a man doesn't work he doesn't eat. But, as heirs of God we have a right, according to Romans 8:17, to everything that belongs to God & Jesus.
---Rickey on 6/28/06


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I wouldn't have to. God is not a man that He should lie neither is He the son of a man that He should repent. He has said it & will do it. God watches over His word to perform it. If His word promises something then you better believe I am going to lay hold of it.
Salvation is more than not going to hell. Salvation includes healing, prosperity, safety, deliverance, equality with(not to) God. Like Paul said, " I am who I am by the grace of God".
---Rickey on 6/28/06


Rickey:

You mix a POSITIONAL righteousness with prosperity gospel.

alan8869 said it clearly, as Christians, we HAVE NO RIGHTS in the traditional sense. If you took that wrong mixing of ideas to the extreme, you would quit your job immediately, and DEMAND that Jesus supply all your needs.

See the point?
---John_T on 6/28/06


Helen & Rickey, if God in His wisdom does not give you perfect health, or prosperity, or the wife you search for, or the job you want, will you be bold enough to shout at Him and demand your "rights"?
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/28/06


As the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus I have a right to every single thing that is in God's Word -- it is all His promises to me.
---Helen_5378 on 6/28/06


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My point was, as heirs of God & joint heirs with Christ Jesus(Romans 8:17) we have a right to everything that belongs to God & Jesus. In Christ we are the righteousness of God. In Christ we are equal with, not to, God.(Philippians 2:5-7) In Christ we have the right to prosper in everything we do.(Psalms 1) We have the right to be the healed, delivered, prosperous, joyful(Nehemiah 8:10), & many other things.
That was the reason I posted that.
---Rickey on 6/28/06


Rickey ... You have clarified your original question, but the answers already given still apply.
We have no right to anything material, nor indeed to anything spiritual, since whatever we receive is given by God, not earned by us.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/28/06


Folks, I believe that some have missed my point. I was asking what belongs to us because we are in Christ? What privileges do we have because we are children of God?
---Rickey on 6/27/06


We are to seek God for the job he will have us to do. You can't be a wuss in God's work or you will get ugly words from people in which you are trying to witness.
---shira on 6/27/06


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We have the same rights as any other Bond Slave.
When you realize your position in this world you will be better off. We are Bond Slaves to Christ. We expect and are owed nothing yet we get everything.
That is why when things happen to some and they think God has made a mistake "dealing with them" like "that" they go off the deep end and can't swim.
---Elder on 6/27/06


We don't get our "rights" because we don't have a right to anything.

We get better than our rights.

We get God's mercy.
---Jack on 6/27/06


#2 The right to be filled with the Spirit, to have a divine nature, to have the mind of Christ, to be a son of God, to receive an inheritance, to receive His mercy and grace, to be married to Christ, to be a king and priest on to God, to love,worship,praise Him, to come boldly to throne of grace, to rule and reign with Him, to call upon the name of Jesus, to eat of the Bread of life, to grow into maturity in Christ, to be like He is, to stand in the same grace in which He stands, etc.
---Debbie on 6/27/06


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