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Where Did God Live Before Genesis

If God did not create heaven before the First Day of the Genesis account, where did He dwell before those 6 days?
Genesis 1 i & ii appear to allow for Earth and heaven to be built earlier, with iii-v describing the "First day" when light was created for an already existent earth.

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 ---alan8869_of_UK on 7/4/06
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The three heavens are as follows:
The first heaven is the atmosphere, Genesis 2:19, Lamentations 4:19.
The second heaven is outer space, Deuteronomy 17:3, Matthew 24:29.
The third heaven is Heaven, which contains Gods' throne, Deuteronomy 10:14, 26:15, 1Samuel 2:10, 1Kings 8:27, 30, 1Chronicles 21:26, 2Chronicles 7:14, Nehemiah 9:27, Psalm 11:4, 20:6, 135:6, Isaiah 66:1, Jeremiah 23:24, Daniel 4:13, 35, 5:23, Matthew 6:9, 11:25, 18:10, 24:36, John 14:2, Acts 3:21, 7:49, Romans 1:18, 2Corinthians 12:2, Hebrews 6:20, 9:12, 24, 12:22-23, 1Peter 3:22, etc.
God lives in Heaven, but also, more than fills Heaven and the Universe.
p.s. John 14:2.
---Glenn on 6/4/09


God before Genesis?
Existing WITHIN...

..I AM..
hayah-TO BREATHE
Ex3:14
Heb11:1-3
Heb11:6

Then GOD spoke...
"I AM THAT I AM"...
Heb11:1-2

GOD is the Beginning...
GOD is the End...
Is41:4
Is44:6
Rev1

[IN the Beginning] God created the Heaven(s) and the earth.
Gen1:1

[IN the Beginning] WAS the WORD and the Word was WITH God and the WORD WAS GOD.
Jn1:1

I Have [SWORN BY MYSELF],the WORD IS GONE OUT OF MY MOUTH in righteousness,and SHALL NOT RETURN,That UNTO ME ...
every knee shall bow,every tongue shall swear.
Is45(Read All)

...

[BREATH] OF LIFE..
Gen2:7
[BREATHED] ON THEM...RECEIVED YE THE HOLY GHOST,
Jn20:22

God's Peace.
---char on 12/18/08


To answer the original question "Where was God before Genesis"

Kathr came closest when he cited Proverbs 8:23.

Actually, if you begin at verse 22 and continue til v.31 you will see that this is Jesus saying that He was brought forth(verse24) by God before "his works of old" -- (before creation).

Take note of verse 30: Jesus said "I was daily his delight, rejoicing..."

And in verse31 he continued "rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth."

So, Jesus, who was brought forth before creation was rejoicing daily with Him in the HABITABLE PART OF HIS EARTH.

So God has "His Earth" where Jesus was rejoicing with the Father.
---manny on 11/18/08


To Whosoever has an ear to hear?.....Continued

2) God did not create us to save some & condemn other. God knew, like a farmer knows, that His creation must endure being sown into the grown in order to be quickened & raised-up into glory. Like a farmer, God knew that all of His seeds sown, would not rise up with the harvest, but He also knew that there would NEVER be a harvest to speak of, if He didn't sow all His seeds with hopeful & attentive love.

This is shown through the constant nourishing way God draws (John 6:44) us to the Word (Christ), so that we may live our lives dwelling in the Word as He does!!!!!
---Shawn.M.T on 10/20/08


To Whosoever has an ear to hear?

--BlogQ: {where did He dwell before those 6 days?}

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

--Answer: God dwelt in, with & as the "Word" before creation!!! God made us so we could also dwell IN, WITH & AS the Word like Him.

...Read Part 2 (with hopes of edifying, Mainly for Alan8869 of UK in response to his many queries dealing with God's original plan for creation posted on 09/13/06)
---Shawn.M.T on 10/19/08




Alan8869ofUK - I have already explained this the very best I can. Maybe if you read my more recent posts again you will get understanding and also if you pray about it the Lord will show you. If not, then please ask me specifically what it is you do not understand.
---Helen_5378 on 10/7/08


the Alpha and the Omega.
as it was in the beginning is now and forever will be, world without end.Amen!
---Lisa on 10/2/07


alexia - This is a very pertinent question for mormons - they have a whole doctrine based on Jesus and Lucifer and the other gods having a meeting to decide who would redeem earth (look up Kolob) - so please take these questions seriously. Sometimes you may be answering important doctrine to some. I can't imagine why anyone would enter this cult once they know the truth but they do and it is oppressive.
---Andrea on 10/1/07


"in his glory"...oh well that clears it up.

Who dreams up these topics...Everybody put in their guess.
---alexia on 10/1/07


brother Steven-rem, I am also with you in your statement. "In His glory." "In the beginning God" While God existed eternally, this marked the beginning of the Universe in time and space. "but God" existed from all eternity. There was no time when God, in the unity of His nature (though subsisting equally in three Divine Persons) dwelt all alone. From all eternity, God was alone, self contained, self sufficient, self satified, in need of nothing.
---Mark_V. on 10/1/07




steven rem7000 - Amen brother!

I believe you are correct.

Keep up the good fight of faith (1 Tim 6:12).
---trey on 9/30/07


IN HIS GLORY!!!!!!
---steven-rem7000 on 9/23/07


Alan8869ofUK - God knows everything ok. So, even before God created everything, He knew every single thing that was going to happen. He created Adam and Eve knowing that they were going to fall. And He created all of us knowing that we would be born fallen. Before time here began, God knew that He would send Jesus to die on the Cross for the sin of humanity. As I said, love created man, and love redeemed man.
---Helen_5378 on 9/2/07


Proverbs 8:23
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
---kathr4453 on 9/30/06


Steven, I was just LOL at your "But this is a frivolous debate" comment. Nothing about heaven, which I agree with, and nothing about being concerned about lost souls. Only that you thought that this was a frivolous debate, but you did think enough of it to comment on it. Thats all.
---Billy on 9/24/06


Billy: I sure hope you're not LOL in the Lord's name for it's written that the first heaven is the firmament and is the closest to the Earth (Genesis 1:8), the second heaven is the space is where the sun, moon and stars are located (Deuteronomy 4:19), and the third heaven is the location of God's throne (II Corinthians 12:2). Other verses throughout the Bible attest to this. Many of the "heaven" words are both singular and plural, check them out in the Hebrew and Greek languages.
---Steveng on 9/22/06


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StevenG, you make me LOL
---Billy on 9/22/06


If it werent for the period and the start of a new sentance I would agree with you. In this case "when" is a subordinating conjunction being used to join the subordinate clause "Melchisedec met him" to the independent clause "For he was yet in the loins of his father". The subordinate clause tells why or the condition under which the independent clause occurred. I thank you too Billy and appreciate the debate.
---tofurabby on 9/22/06


Tofurabby, Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes "in" Abraham.
[10] For he "Levi" was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

I believe it does say that he "Levi" payed his tithes while in the loins of his father Abraham. But anyway, yes I can let it go, so good talking to you Tofurabby, maybe we can do it again sometime.
---Billy on 9/22/06


Three heavens are there: one, where the birds fly; two, were the planet and stars are; and, three, where God lives. So, which heavens did he create? The first two. Where has God been living? In His heaven since forever. But this is a frivolous debate. Let's concern ourselves with a most immediate problem getting people saved; for the time is near the end and the harvest is many but the workers are few.
---Steveng on 9/21/06


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Billy, let us agree to disagree and move on. I have extremely strong convictions that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, not merely his ideas, but is word for word. This will not change. I know there is some figurative language, but it is normally either noted as such or blatantly obvious. If there is room to question if something may be either or, then I will always believe it to be literal.
---tofurabby on 9/21/06


Billy, all my limbs are intact. This is thanks to Christ cleansing away my sins. "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Cor. 5:17 I am no longer offended by my extremities.
---tofurabby on 9/21/06


Billy, it says Levi "was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him." It does not say he was in the loins when he payed tithes.
---tofurabby on 9/21/06


Emcee ... If you read the original question, I asked a question and used the word "appear". I received constructive comments from many people, for which I think them.
But you introduced total confusion by talking about Chaos, which came much later, after Creation was complete.
But let's put that behind us, and move on ...
Blessings to you
---Alan8869_of_UK on 9/21/06


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Tofurabby, what about Mat 5:30? Is this to be taken literal? If so, are you missing any limbs because of one of them offending you? Did Levi "Heb 7:9" literaly pay tithes while he was in Abrahams loins? If so, where did levi get his money from? Or for that fact, did he have any arms or hands to even give his gift?
See Tofurabby, this was not physical. If it was physical, then Abraham would have had to pay 20% to cover Levi and Abrahams tithes.
---Billy on 9/21/06


Alan of UK ::Thank you but the muddle is yours.READ the 2nd para to your query "Genesis 1;1-2 APPEAR to allow for heaven & earth to be built earlier with v3-5 to be the "first day"when light was created for an already existent Earth"So a time frame is immaterial.I believe & not worth A usless arguement.& really could not see the reason for the contraversy which did not exist in the first place.
---Emcee on 9/21/06


In answer to Alan's question - and to add a bit of levity to this blog.... anywhere He wanted to. Yes, I had to go there. :o)
---daphn8897 on 9/21/06


Billy, It's like you said, I'm not perfect.
---tofurabby on 9/21/06


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Billy, that is what it says isnt it? Yes it is literal, the previous verse states: "they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day". Yes God was there physically and yes God did ask a question. It happened. Now, we can deduce that it was rhetorical, because we learn that God is all knowing in other scripture.
---tofurabby on 9/21/06


Emcee ... Even now you are in a muddle. The Bible says God created the heavens and the earth, and then it says He created light. My query was as to the time scale of those two events. Chaos is a completely separate thing, and VOID means empty, not chaotic. I still don't know what point you are trying to make.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 9/21/06


Alan of UK::I will not banter with words.I do not wish to take up time & space please consider the discussion on this subject closed Closed.Your original statement was there was a heaven & earth prior to God saying let there be light I disagree.The word VOID is self explanitory.Even you know that.(side issues are inconsequential.)
---Emcee on 9/21/06


Alan of UK::I will not banter with words.I do not wish to take up time & space please consider the discussion on this subject closed Closed.Your original statement was there was a heaven & earth prior to God saying let there be light I disagree.The word VOID is self explanitory.Even you know that.(side issues are inconsequential.)
---Emcee on 9/21/06


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(2). Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Tofurabby, I know that your not perfect, and neather am I. So if this scripture is to be taken literal, then why havent you cut off any of your members, that offend, so you could enter into Gods kingdom, free from the offending member?
---Billy on 9/21/06


(1). Tofurabby, you want to clame God's word is meant to be taken literally, then would you say that God didnt know where Adam was in this scripture?
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
To say other wise is to say that God doesnt know all things. All so, would you say that this scripture is to be taken literal?
---Billy on 9/21/06


Emcee ... First, Please give me an instance where I have punned with words.
Next, I still have not a clue what you are talking about. My original question referred to the creation of the heaven and the earth, & was it before, or during the First Day?
Chaos has nothing to do with that period of the Creation. As you say, it came after the Fall.
And it was you who introduced the subject of Chaos into this blog.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/20/06


God is everywhere, in everything all the time and before time.I,am the alpha and omega the begining and the end.
---tom2 on 9/20/06


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Billy, you quoted Isa 54:16, and Job 26:13 as evidence Satan was created as an evil being. I just dont see how you are coming to that conclusion. Plus, you are telling me Job 38:4-7 is figurative which is a fancy word for make-believe. I'm sorry, but I dont agree. God's word is meant to be taken literally. When I read Job 38:4-7 literally it makes perfect sense right along with the rest of scripture. I dont need to wrest it into something it's not in order to fit the latest doctrinal flavor of the month.
---tofurabby on 9/20/06


(2). If this is what you see about my spiritual observations of the scriptures, I guess according to you, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, must be make believe. Being that before creation, it was only a spiritual reality, right. Spiritual realities are finished works in the eye of God. To think this is make believe, would only show our spiritual blindness.
---Billy on 9/20/06


(1). Tofurabby, Isa 54:16, and Job 26:13 are relevant to the subject, if you cant see how they are, then I cant help that. Also you clame that im making things up, and that I think that the bible is make believe.
---Billy on 9/20/06


I dont see how you find either of these scriptures relevant or in conflict:
Isa 54:16 "Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy."
Job 26:13 "By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent."
You are making things up, just like the way you find the rest of the bible to be make-believe.
---tofurabby on 9/20/06


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Alan of UK::Friend you like to pun with words I dont.Chaos was created by satan with Eve,just after the cessation of Creation & that is what I meant& you know what we are talking about.Put that thought into the original sentence & it will become crystal Clear.look at your own original question.
---Emcee on 9/20/06


Tofurabby, Scripture go hand in hand. One verse of scripture doesnt go against another. I dont think that Isa 14 and Ez 28 are speaking of Satan. If it were, It would go against Isa 54:16, and Job 26:13, that plainly says Satan was evil from his creation. Tofurabby, why dont you explane to me how Isa 54:16, and Job 26:13, can harmonize together with Ez. 28:15 and Isa 14 if the later two scriptures is speaking of Satan.
---Billy on 9/20/06


Tofurabby, Angels rejoicing is just as much figurative language as the voice of Abels blood crying from the ground. Because Jeremiah was know by God before the foundations of the world, does this mean that Jeremiah might remember carrying on a conversation with God before he ever became a man? Of course not, being in Christ before the foundations of the world, just means we were in Gods plan of existance before it all started. God also speaks, when things are not, as though they were.
---Billy on 9/20/06


Billy, here is what the Bible has to say about Satan: Ez. 28:15 "Thou WAST perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, TILL, iniquity was found in thee."
---tofurabby on 9/19/06


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Billy, the angels rejoiced... if we were here at the foundation of the earth then we would have been able to rejoice as well... I dont recall doing so.

Isa 14 is about Satan just like Ez. 28 is about Satan, not the king of Tyrus. It's the man behind the Kings.
---tofurabby on 9/19/06


(4). Casey, If you read the whole chapter of Isa 14, youll see that it was addressed to the king of Babylon. It never refered to Satan.
---Billy on 9/17/06


(3). Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Isa 54:16, and Job 26:13, also says that Satan was evil from his creation. The name Lucifer was never in the original hebrew.
---Billy on 9/17/06


(2). Sorry, I ment Casey in #1... tsâbâ' tsebâ'âh, tsaw-baw', tseb-aw-aw' From H6633; a mass of persons, especially regularly organized for war (an army). So Casey, because the scriptures cant be wrong, could Satan have been an angel named Lucifer, that was once good, and then went bad? Heres another scripture that lets us know what the devil was from his creation.
---Billy on 9/17/06


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(1). Alan8869, Here is another scripture that proves that the all the host of heaven were created in the six days of creation.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Gen 2:1 says that when the heavens and earth were finished, and all the HOST of them. So what does strongs say about the word host?
---Billy on 9/17/06


Emcee ... # 2 ?
I still do not know why on 9/13 you asked me "Why would God create Chaos as you are suggesting"
I had never suggested God caused Chaos, had never even used the word, nor suggested that God created or did anything bad... I had in fact argued against that idea.
Perhaps you are thinking of someone else?
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/17/06


Emcee ... # 1 You confuse me even more.
Yes of course Satan caused Chaos. No doubt.
But surely not during the first two days of Creation?
I just don't see how Chaos has got anything to do with Creation ... surely he did not bring Chaos here until after the Fall?
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/17/06


Alan of UK::Are you really confused?Did I quote your verse & followed up by explaining the action of the offending creature who caused Chaos, with A&E.AS clearly stated upsetting Gods plan.I am sure you are adept at catching the trend.Unless,you are wanting to broaden the discussion which at this stage seems pointless.You seem convinced that satan is not capable of being chaotic.
---Emcee on 9/17/06


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(4). So Tofurabby, Angels were there, in Christ, before the foundations of the world, but they were not created till Christ had begun the six days of creation. This can be the only way that the scriptures can remain true to each other.
---Billy on 9/16/06


(3). Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. We know that Levi payed tithes while in the loins of Abraham. The point im trying to make is that all of us, including the angels, were there in Christ, while the foundations were being created. All was in Christ before creation ever started. Creation just made it all a reality
---Billy on 9/16/06


(2). You had quoted, according to Job 38:4-7 the angels were there before God even started building the earth. God laid the foundations and the angels rejoyced while he was doing it. So do these two scriptures fight against each other as to when the angels were created? Of course not. So ill ask a question. Did God know Jeremiah before he was formed in his mothers belly? Heres the scripture.
---Billy on 9/16/06


(1). Wooo, wate a minute. Tofurabby, you are wrong, and I am wrong. But you are also right and I am right also, if that makes any sence. First we know that no scripture is of it own interpretation. weve got to take all of Gods word togather. I had quoted, Gen 2:1 Thus the HEAVENS and the EARTH were finished, AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM. No one can deny, according to this scripture, that the host of heaven were not included in the six days of creation.
---Billy on 9/16/06


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Tofurabby, Your reading this out of contex. These are all questions, not statements.
1. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Were you there Tofurabby, I dont think so.
2. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? We know God did, but were you there, I dont think so.
3. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; were you there Tofurabby? No.
---Billy on 9/16/06


Emcee ... You still leave me totally confused about this Chaos. I still don't know why you quote Chaos in relation to Genesis 1 verses 1 & 2. There was no chaos then, and at the end of Day 6 God saw that what He had made was very good, so Satan had not yet spoilt it.
That happened later, at the Fall,
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/15/06


Geoff ... you said my "if" was not true. Of course it was not, an "if" cannot be true or untrue, because it is not a statement! My question was to stimulate discussion, and it did!!
Of course God created everything, and He has always been. But can you imagine where He was, in that time before He started Creation?
'Tis a mystery: a pity that some try to say that they know, for they cannot, until we are called home.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/15/06


Billy, didn't the creation of satan and the rest of the angels take place before the creation of the Earth? When did satan rebel against God if he didn't already have a history pre-earth?
---Casey on 9/15/06


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Billy, according to Job 38:4-7 the angels were there before God even started building the earth. God laid the foundations and the angels rejoyced while he was doing it.

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?...When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
---tofurabby on 9/15/06


All of creation "natural and spiritual" took place during the six days spoken in Genesis 1.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:1 Thus the HEAVENS and the EARTH were finished, AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM.
So according to Genesis 2:1, everything including the heavens and the host of heaven were included in thouse six days..
---Billy on 9/15/06


WellAlan of Uk::Please reread the blog where I opened the discussionI quoted Gen 1;1-2& said Satan was the opposition who created Chaos.You for want by pressure Confused the whole issue as You Thought--& it was a wrong thought.Period- Cheers you have been visiting too many pubs,while bending that elbow.Peace.
---Emcee on 9/14/06


Alan, Jack got it right, back on 7/5/06 this was the terrestrial heavens, not the celestial-1 Cor 15:40. Then also, God created everything-Ex 20:11, Acts 4:24. So heaven or not, He pre-exists everything, including time. There never was a time when there was no God. Kinda tickles the mind, doesn't it? You posed a very big "if" and it's not true because God has always existed, therefore the "place" where He is (if that makes any sense) pre-exists the heavens He created in Gen 1:1
---Geoff on 9/14/06


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Emcee ... I understand now that you were reveting to the original question, not the sub-discussion I was having with Helen.
it is dificult to know what someone is referring to when the subject gets developed inot sub-debates.
But I do not understand how you suggest to me "The suggestion of "Chaos" Is your suggestion" I think you were the first person to use that word.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/14/06


Exod. 20:11 FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Heaven and earth and everything else that was made, was all made in this six day span.
---Billy on 9/14/06


Alan8869ofUK - I see what you mean now. The original reason for creation was that Adam and Eve would remain without sin and love and serve Him forever. God made everyone because He is love and He loves us.
---Helen_5378 on 9/14/06


Alan8869ofUK - That is right. God's reason for the original creation i.e. Adam and Eve was that they would never fall and would live forever with Him in total bliss. However, God did give them a free will, and Adam chose to outright disobey God. God knew that would happen, hoever He loved them and had already planned for His Son Jesus to die on the Cross for sin.
---Helen_5378 on 9/14/06


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2/... God has given man a free will so that he can choose to freely go to God through Jesus. However, man can choose to not do so. In that case, because God has given man the choice, God will reject those who reject Him. It is not God's will that any should perish but that they all come to repentance and the knowledge of the truth (2Peter 3:9).
---Helen_5378 on 9/14/06


Alan8869ofUK - Everything that God does, He does with His complete foreknowledge of everything. He made man out of love, knowing that man was already fallen through Adam. But God had already planned the way to redeem man back to Himself through the Cross of His Son Jesus. God does not create anybody with the purpose of condemning them to hell. God gave man free will, and it is man who puts himself into hell by the rejection of Jesus Christ. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 9/14/06


Alan of Uk::You are reading into my words.I quoted Gen1;1-2 for your edification.His words not mine.My statement deals with your original question .Please do not confuse the issue.Please read my blogs only, when replying.read Gen1;1-2Create denotes made something out of nothing& that explains a VOID.take it from here if you so desire .The chaos is caused by the chaotic person Satan,who interferred in Gods plan.The suggestion of "Chaos" Is your suggestion.
---Emcee on 9/13/06


Alan of Uk::You are reading into my words.I quoted Gen1;1-2 for your edification.His words not mine.My statement deals with your original question .Please do not confuse the issue.Please read my blogs only, when replying.read Gen1;1-2Create denotes made something out of nothing& that explains a VOID.take it from here if you so desire .The chaos is caused by the chaotic person Satan,who interferred in Gods plan.The suggestion of "Chaos" Is your suggestion.
---Emcee on 9/13/06


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Emcee ... When did I suggest thatv God created chaos.
But the Bible does say He created the heaven and the earth, and it was without form.
You appear to deny that.
And are you suggesting that Satan had interfered to create that lack of form?
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/13/06


Emcee ... I can't make head or tail of what you have said. And I certainly can't see how you can possibly suggest that God created light before He created the earth.
Genesis says
1 He created the heaven and the earth
2 It was without form
3 God said Let there be Light ... and there was light.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/13/06


Helen ... My point is that that God created us, and knew that we would fall, and so planned Salvation.
Salvation was an essential part of the creation and the forward plan, so that we could be reconciled with God, but it was not reason for the original creation.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/13/06


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