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Word Of Faith Doctrines Heresy

Are you a heretic if you are part of the Word of Faith movement?

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 ---karen on 7/16/06
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No Karen. I am saying that God Himself ordained the word of faith.
---Linda6563 on 9/16/07


Daphne and Alan, insightful answers.
I see how repeating scriptures over and over until the answer comes, is making demands on the Lord. It is telling God exactly what you want and how you want it. It is similar to spoiled children demanding their way.
---Cindy on 2/10/07


MikeM., what is the endtime handmaiden program?
---Cindy on 2/10/07


Alan of UK, Hurray! As one who was rescued by God from the WoF movement, I applaud your succint and accurate assessment.
---daphn8897 on 7/20/06


It is surely a blasphemy to "Name it and claim it" ? Who'se in charge for Heaven's sake? Who will make the final decision after listening to our prayers? Seems that we are trying to make ourselves more important than God if we say He will always do what we pray for. Makes Him our puppet.
Rather blasphemous.
---alan8869_of_UK on 7/19/06




WORD OF FAITH IS ANOTHER WORD FOR "CHRISTIAN WICCANISM"

Just as the Wiccans try to manipulate the world around them via crystals, etc., so also does WOF try to manipulate God via "name it and claim it" or saying the correct words, or by giving the televangelist some "seed money" so he can air condition his dog's house. Poor Fido!

Thus, it raises self to God, and is the same thing that the proud people of Babel did.

Look where THAT got them!
---JohnT on 7/19/06


you can become a heretic if you do not know what the bible say about faith,taking scripture out of it's rightful context. Paul admonished Timothy in 2Tim 2:15 that he is to" be diligent to present himself approved to God, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth".I believe Paul's advise is to us and we should take very this seriously.
---const8573 on 7/18/06


A true word of faith should be an anointed word that brings forth faith and causes it to grow by being heard. It should glorify Jesus and have nothing to do with temporal riches or the lusts and cares of this life. Lazarus and the rich man may be a parable that shows the possible end to the word of faith movement vs. true Christianity that is willing to endure hardships as a soldier for Christ and loving him in the bad times.
---Shari on 7/18/06


Alan of UK-- You touched on the very reason, I think, the WoF movement is dangerous. Immature Christians under this sort of ministry, when they discover their belief in WoF has been a mistake, may conclude that they were also wrong to believe in Jesus, sin and salvation.
---Donna2277 on 7/18/06


"... they would expect their paith prayers to work unless the person being prayed for also had faith??"

Perhaps, but I don't see a dead man (Lazarus) or a dead girl (Jairus' daughter) having any faith of their own. The daughter was raised by the faith of the father in Jesus. The point is that those who spent all that time condemning you or your wife were guilty of the inadequate faith they condemned you for. It just feels better on "self" to blame someone else.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06




We also have a tape on which Copeland says that we are "little gods."
---susie on 7/17/06


Alan...That is the point. Those false teachers who are teaching the so-called word of faith doctrine give false hope to millions of people. I know a man who put $10,000 security deposit on a house he wanted to buy that he could not afford. But, the false teacher had said all he had to do was speak a "word of faith" and it would be his. Guess who lost $10,000?
---susie on 7/17/06


Linda ... The reason I have contibuted here is to let people know that God does not always grant good health, or wealth, to those who faithfully ask for it. In other words, that the Word of Faith movement is wrong, and that we must not feel cheated by God if we don't get what we ask for.
I do know someone who KNEW 100% that God would do the thing He prayed for. It did not happen, and he turned his back on god ... because someone with the Word of Faith principle had fed him false expectations.
---alan8869_of_UK on 7/17/06


Linda ... I have to say that I started this little dialogue with you before you said that the Word of Faith movement had gone a bit wrong. By the time I wtote the last one, I had seen that, which is why I referred to the WoF as condemning, rather than you.
I don't know much about them except what I have read here, but I would not imagine that they would expect their paith prayers to work unless the person being prayed for also had faith??
---alan8869_of_UK on 7/17/06


One more thing...this is not about "achieving" anything. I am not looking to achieve health. I believe He already provided it and is able to instruct me in how to live in that provision. That is not achieving anything by my own effort. That is believing in what He has accomplished and trusting Him to "work it in me both to will and to do of His good pleasure" and "to complete the work He began in me".
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


II. the rest of the other man scared. The angel had to come to him in order for him to not be scared, and all he did was confess what was told by the angel. He didn't use any force or "It" to do anything. The centurion had more faith then he did. This was a failure by Paul to trust "in the Lord".
---karen on 7/17/06


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Just like anything else, the pointing finger means that there are three pointing back and a thumb holding them there. If they were quick to condemn you or your wife for not having adequate faith, then I am sure they were looking into the mirror of their own souls and turning their own unbelief on you. In such a case they can continue to deceive themselves while they lay the blame on someone else. Must feel really good to do that. Adam loved it.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


By the way, where WERE all those who said these things to you when your wife was still sick or after she passed? Why isn't it about their faith instead of yours or your wife's? What about those who prayed in believing faith? What about their faith instead of yours? Why did they bother to pray if it was about just your faith or your wife's? And why didn't their prayers get answered if they themselves had "so much faith"?
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


No faith, no hope to be in His presence. Obviously, your wife had hope so she had faith. I have compassion on the sick and mourn with those who have lost loved ones. I only seek to explain the best way I can where my conviction lies. I am sorry folks ever said those things to you because it tints your vision to see me the same way.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


"But the Word of Faith movement is the one who condemns ... those who fail to be healed, or prosperous, because of what they say is their inadequate faith"

"What they say, what they say". I did not say that so I am not "they" so don't put me in the same group. I was not there when your wife passed. I guess I am not your typical 'word of faither' because I don't condemn those who are sick or who have died by saying they have or had inadequate faith.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


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Their lives were never in doubt. They were going to make it even though they did not understand. Your intepretation is very wrong. Paul himself thought they were all going to parish. He mentions in 27: 9-10, "Men I perceive that this voyage will end with disaster and much loss, not only of the cargo and ship, but also ourselves." He had forgotten what God told him in verse23:11, that he was to go to Rome. Even He thought they would all die. He was scared and doubted God. He was just like the
---karen on 7/17/06


I had not heard of the Word of Faith movement before reading this blog. I have heard that some beliefs are based on one verse or phrase in scriptures. Faith is very important to me, but God and God's grace saved me. God draws me to Jesus and gives me a believing heart. John 6:44 Romans 12:3. I think the word of faith spoken of in Romans 10:8-10 is about the gospel of salvation and how to receive or accept Jesus as Saviour through faith. Ephesians 2:8 Romans 4:16
---Creamcup on 7/17/06


Linda # 2 .
And from your words, you do not appear to accept that Jesus is NOT about achieving physical or financial comfort in this life. He is, as far as concerns this life, courage, endurance, witness, charity, etc. our Faith in Him gives us these things, and enables us to cope with the difficulties of this temporary world.
---alan8869_of_UK on 7/17/06


Linda # 1 "I look for Christ to appear in my life every day...and He does. Why am I condemned for that?" I do not condemn you for that, indeed I agree with you ... read what I said "The good thing is that God will see His faithful person through these difficulties" ... that is Christ with us in this life.
But the Word of Faith movement is the one who condemns ... those who fail to be healed, or prosperous, because of what they say is their inadequate faith
---alan8869_of_UK on 7/17/06


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There are going to be times when "no man stands with you" and "all forsaske you" but, if you will stand, you will find that God does stand with you....and He NEVER forsakes.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


Their absence during her time of grief was more of a testimony to their absence of relationship with the Father and their inability to help than it was their "selfishness". One cannot be in true relationship with the Giver and still be selfish. Paul made a statement that has helped me over and over. He said, "No man stood with me" and "they all forsook me".
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


Alan, I remember what you said about those friends of your daughter's not coming to her during her time of grief because "they were all working on their own relationship with God". That makes me mad. If you will permit me, I will make a statement about that. I have a pretty good feeling that they weren't in relationship with Him and couldn't help her. If they were in relationship, they would have had no problem bearing her burden and fulfilling the law of Christ.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


The word of faith doesn't just touch one individual and is not to be used in selfishness. That is where I believe the word of faith "movement" of man has veered off track. Anytime the word of faith has come to me, I ministered it to others and they, by the power of the Word itself, stepped out of the place they were in. The purpose of God causes it to touch all that are around. You can't separate His will from His purpose.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


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When Paul stood up and spoke in the midst of that storm, those other men experienced the peace Father had just given him. If he had never spoken that word to them, sure, they would have made it and all that (providing that fear itself didn't cause most of the men to jump the ship at the wrong time and perish in the sea) but they would have been anxiety ridden the whole time because no word of peace had come to them.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


In another blog, Pharisee made a statement that rings so true. He talked about salvation, even in the moment. That salvation includes not just being born again in spirit but experiencing peace in the soul and life in the body. Salvation is not an event. Salvation is a person we are in relationship with every day. Jesus IS salvation.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


The purpose and the will of God is seen in this whole thing. His will, that none perish in any way. His purpose, to reveal Christ through them that believe.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


Why did He do it the way He did it? So that those others who sailed the ship would know Him just like Paul did. After all, Father God is all about revealing the Christ in each one of us to the world. Notice in this situation that no one was sick or lost their life. They suffered great anxiety, turmoil, and had their lives hanging in doubt before them (a part of the curse) but God's word prevailed.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


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Paul had fear that is obvious, but he gave the peace Father spoke to him away when he stood up and spoke in that storm to a boat full of people who were afraid themselves. They believed, came to peace, and listened to instruction after that. Everything Paul told them to do, they did. Paul got to Crete like he was supposed to but I believe the same God who would tell Paul directly to go to a place could have done the same thing again without the ship and the storm.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


""Do not be afraid Paul, (meaning Paul was afraid)..."

Obviously, but that word changed that. When he stood up in the midst, fear was gone.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


"....I do look for events. I look for Christ to appear in my life every day...and He does. Why am I condemned for that?..."

Correction: that should have said, "I DON'T look for events" instead of "DO look for events". Sorry.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


Like I said, I am not here for man's agreement. Regarding the blindness, how can you ask me that and not wonder if what you see may be blindness to you?
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


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"How can you know people's heart Linda? Did you ever stop to wonder that what others see, might be blindness to you?"

It is funny that you ask me that when Lupe, in another blog just like this one, claims to know my heart by what I spoke. Interesting that he would "know my heart" by "what I spoke". He uses the exact thing he condemns to judge me. Why would you protect him and condemn me? Because he agrees with you and I don't?
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


II. another reason I said it was a false story you told about Paul, is because, even if the other sailors hadn't believed Paul's message they were going to be saved anyway from dying becuase God said so. Heck, even Paul was afraid until the angel spoke to him not to be afraid.
---karen on 7/17/06


"True Faith is about our future life with God, not a guarantee of comfort in this life."

That is true, Alan, but what about the life that NOW is. I have a life with God right now in this present time because my relationship with Him is now and not just a future thing to come. I do look for events. I look for Christ to appear in my life every day...and He does. Why am I condemned for that?
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


".... Notice that I said that "it" (the Word) has the power to change the circumstances..."

There it is, Lee, right at the beginning of one of the responses. Jesus said, "It" is finished. You need to know what "it" is. Jesus used that word long before I ever knew it.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


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Lee, if you will reread the response, you will see that "it" is "His word". I put that in parenthesis right after the word "it" to show exactly what I meant. How did you miss that?
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


".....my faith... my words... my works...."

Maybe for some word of faithers, but not this one. His faith, His words, His works.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


Linda, though your story and words sounded great in the story of Paul, what you said happened, didn't happen as you wrote it. So it was mixed with truth and lie, the same as word faith teachers. A little truth and a little lie, and no one will notice. Well, there is many here that do notice and know Scripture very well. I would say, stick to Scripture and you will never be wrong.
---karen on 7/17/06


Linda, in your last statement you made it sound as if Paul did all the work in the storm of storms. It was God that did it. I think you are wrong again. Read Acts, 27:21-26, it was not as you stated. Paul had no powers to do anything but ride the storm. Blessings
---lee_1 on 7/17/06


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III. does it state that Paul calm the storm, or that his understanding of the angel change the circumstances in that case. The storm continued, and it was as God had granted. Not what Paul granted. God already had a purpose for Paul, he had to go to Caesar, all in God's plan. All Paul did was to inform the others not to worry. He didn't use the force of faith, or made the storm go away. Sometimes the storms stays and He, God, gets us through it.
---karen on 7/17/06


#2 Sometimes a strong "word", spoken in faith, is needed in order to change things..sometimes not. Nor do all storms need to be calmed, just because WE are distressed. Gods ways are not our ways. But no matter the storm, whether or not we are prepared, Our PEACE is not situational. "My peace I give unto you", said Jesus, "not as the world giveth, give I unto you.." (Jn.14:27)
---Donna2277 on 7/17/06


#1 Nobody is "blaming" or minimizing faith. For "without faith it is impossible to please God"!(Heb 11:6). Linda, I agree that if the Lord gives us a apecific word re a particular circumstance, we should speak it. He may (or may not) speak to us before the storm. Sometimes we are blindsided. But sometimes what man means for evil, God means for good and all we need do is stand and see the salvation of the Lord. In this instance the Lord alone is glorified.
---Donna2277 on 7/17/06


WoF teaching is man centered... my faith... my words... my works... Any doctrine that puts any faith in what we can or cannot say or do, will or will not say or do... is false. God gives the measure of faith... we do not. God moves the mountains, we do not. We are to have faith in God, not in our words or works or in our own faith. And I believe God, regardless of my circumstance. He is always good. Our circumstances here are temporary.
---daphn8897 on 7/17/06


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II. And now I urge you to take heart, for there will be no loss of life among you, but only of the ship. For there sotod by me this night an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I serve, saying, "Do not be afraid Paul, (meaning Paul was afraid) you must be brought before Casesar; and indeed God has granted you all those who sail with you. Therefore take heart, men for I believe God that it will be just as it was told to me." no where in those passages
---karen on 7/17/06


How can you know people's heart Linda? Did you ever stop to wonder that what others see, might be blindness to you? You speak of Paul and the word, and he released this force, and no one died because he released this word. You miss interpreted the whole context of that passages. It was the angel that appeard to Paul, and here is what he said, "men, you should have listened to me, and not have sailed from Crete and incurred this disaster and loss.
---karen on 7/17/06


Linda ...Your words insult those faithful Christians who are ill, or have lost faithful Christian spouses or children or friends
The reality is that people do get ill, and do die, and leave others heartbroken behind. The reality is that good faithful Christian folk lose their livelihood, and become financially poor.
The good thing is that God will see His faithful person through these difficulties.
True Faith is about our future life with God, not a guarantee of comfort in this life.
---alan8869_of_UK on 7/17/06


If the word of faith is sound why was Epaphroditis sick? Why was Paul not healed? Could it be that in faith we should ask for God's will even if it leads to our own hurt or poverty? Jesus asked for the cup to be removed but settled for his Father's will. Maybe the word of faith needs to be directed towards making it through the tribulation with nothing.
---Shari on 7/17/06


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Linda, I did noticed you said "It" what do you mean by "It"? Is it a force? What is this "It" you speak off. I noticed you started with God and worked your way to "IT" as though they are two different things, that is why I am asking. And can you show by Scripture this "it" you speak of?
---lee_1 on 7/17/06


Linda, you said "it" are you saying God has power or a perticular force of faith? You started with God and worked your way to "It" as if to say some force that is not God. Which one is it and show from Scripture
---lee_1 on 7/17/06


Karen, faith must always be in Christ and the finished work of the cross. It is simply taking God at His Word ... having the confidence to know that He meant what He said and He said what He meant.
---DoryLory on 7/17/06


God made man to have dominion in the earth but that dominion begins with you ruling over your own "house" (temple) according to Romans 6. Dominion starts there and then the territory is increased. Jesus is the King but we have been made kings and priests and are meant to rule and reign in the earth as He does in the heavens.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


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If He tells me to not let sin reign in my mortal body, then He is telling me (as a king) to rule and reign with Him (The King) over that sin. He spoke that to me yesterday and His very word brought faith. If I don't hearken to that word of faith, sin will take occasion because it lurks in the members looking for an opportunity to manifest through a carnal, at enmity with God mind that IS death.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


He has not only supernaturally healed me, He has also instructed me in health and been very specific to tell me something I needed to do to facilitate the health He has already purchased for me. He has also simply said, "Just let the river flow". When I released the river, the symptoms took flight. My body is not what determines for me what Jesus did. What Jesus did determines what my body is to be aligned to. This is a relationship and a relationship requires something on both parts.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


If we failed to hear or heed the word before the circumstance , He is still faithful to bring that word to us if we will but keep our eyes on Him and seek Him. It is always harder to do that while the storm is raging, but it is possible. Trust has to do with coming to Him first in believing faith that He has everything we need. When I experience symptoms, I go to Him first, not the doctor, not my peers, not my family.....not anywhere where I know the report is not going to be "His report".
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


They would have done some stupid things because of fear. Fear will always make you do stupid things. They were at the mercy of their own "do it our way" minds. That word had the power to bring the same kind of peace to those others on the ship that Paul had and, because of that, the storm was calmed for them too and they lived. Father wants to be chosen and trusted.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


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When Paul was in that ship with all those people during the storm of all storms, he stood in peace because of a word from the Lord. He stood up in the midst of that storm and spoke that word that was given to him and released his faith in what was spoken to him. None on the ship with him perished, just as the word came to him. Now if he hadn't spoken that word, some of those folks on that ship would have perished because they had no foundation to stand on.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


There are people here who say, "You can't know my heart". Well, yes I can because I can hear what you say and if all you talk about is sickness, death, infirmities, doubt, unbelief, etc, then I have a pretty good view of your meditation. We are to think on those things that are of good report and sickness has never been a good report to me.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


Notice that I said that "it" (the Word) has the power to change the circumstances, not the person who spoke it. How does the word that calmed the storm IN you get out to calm the storm outside of you? By your mouth. Because the heart and the mouth are linked so closely in the Word, that is why James says that no man can tame it. Man will speak out of his heart.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


Donna, we are never in a storm (time of adversity) without a word from Father, a word that calms the storm within us before it calms the storm around us. And because He is the God who provides before the need arises, He speaks that word to us before the storm comes. We just don't listen. That word is "the word of faith" and when that word is received and spoken out of the mouth from a heart full of faith (not doubt or fear), it has the power to change the circumstances.
---Linda6563 on 7/17/06


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II. and Dionysius included ecstatic noises accompanied by gongs, cymbals, and trumpets. Unless the speech of the Corinthians was done in love, it was no better than the gibberish of pagan ritual.
---karen on 7/17/06


Debbie, you talked about faith of authority to make changes like moving mountains, or trees to dry. You are speaking about 1 Corinthians 13:2, Paul is giving a demonstration that without love, no matter what linguistically gifted one is to speak in his own languages, or "If" he could move mountains, or (hypothetically) the speech of angels, his speech is noise only. And without love it means nothing. New Testament times, rites honoring the pagan deities Cybele, Bacchus,
---karen on 7/17/06


II. the faith talked about in that passage is "faith in Christ" not the same as the faith by the word faith teachers. Their faith is in themselves, that they can do it because they hold that faith. And since they hold that faith, they are able to heal others. There is no question as to what God can do, the question is whether man can do it with his faith? Can you give other passages?
---karen on 7/17/06


Hello Dory, you happen to mention Matthew 9:29, to prove your point on faith. what you fail to add, was verse 28. "And when He had come into the house, the blind men came to Him. And Jesus said to them, Do you believe that I am able to do this?" they said to Him, Yes Lord." The passage states that this blind men had faith that who? Jesus could that that. He didn't say that they or anyone else could do it, but Christ Himself.
---karen on 7/17/06


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If its error you want - look in the mirror.
There is error in every man. The traditional Church is at odds over many issues.

There is the opportunity for every man to repent when he discovers that his personal walk is not perfect, and until he is right with God, let him stay silent.

To Peter, the Lord said, "and when you are converted, ..."

Until then, remember that when you point the finger of blame at anyone, three fingers on the same hand point back at you.
---Robert on 7/17/06


#2 Faith is a word of authority, it commands situations to change, mountains to be removed, trees to dry up, winds to be calmed. We have to excercise faith to receive a healing or any of the blessings God has given us. Faith, however should not be used as a free card for wealth or personal gain.
---Debbie on 7/17/06


#1 Fatih is of God, in fact, it is impossible to please God without faith. God has given each of us a measure of faith. We are to exercise it. Any minister would be amiss if they didn't preach faith. God has given us this measure of faith to bring about His promises to us. Faith is to be exercised in conjuction with His Word and according to His will.
---Debbie on 7/17/06


If it's error you want, you will find it in the faith movement. However, have any arrived? Is there a denomination or movement without error? I think not.

That being said, I want to point out that unbelief is sin (Hebrews 3:12). To speak against what God has spoken is blasphemy. To refuse to believe what He has promised is unbelief ... it is SIN!

Jesus said, "According to your faith will it be done to you." (Matthew 9:29) God's Method-of-Operation is faith.
---DoryLory on 7/17/06


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I was raised around 'word of faith' and 'sheperding' churches, they were authoritarian, 'legalistic,' fearcly anti-intellectual, anti-education. They took TV preachers serious, if you laughed, you were tossed out. The leaders were corrupt, abusive to women, and downright vile in their 'end-time-handmaiden' program. As conservative as the moderators are here, they also say 'word of faith' and sheperding are fringe groups, I was so very glad to hear that.
---MikeM on 7/17/06


John, how can someone not believe in the word and have faith. Can you explain that? Seems to me if He has faith, it is in God. And the word is Christ. So how in the world can he not believe the word and have faith? Seems to me its a contradition. Can you explain?
---karen on 7/16/06


Linda6563-- The passage in Romans 10 speaks about salvation, which we know is by Grace through faith. How do you get any OTHER application out of that?
---Donna2277 on 7/16/06


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