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Helps Whom Helps Themselves

Just curious, what do you all think of the saying
"God helps those who help themselves?"

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 ---Deb on 7/28/06
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Luke 22:36 KJV Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
---frances008 on 1/29/09

It is false in the sense of selfishness, but true in the sense of "faith without works is dead": Doers are blessed, not nonDoers.
---Eloy on 1/29/09

While it is true that this saying is not in the Bible, I think that it may derive from some biblical principles. First though, it must be emphatically stated that it has nothing whatever to do with salvation. That is wholly of grace, and our only part in that is repentance and acceptance. I can think of a few biblical principles (there are surely more) of working that seem to fit:

(1) If you don't work, you shouldn't eat.

(2) A man should provide for his family.

(3) Don't be lazy.
---jerry6593 on 1/29/09

"It is impossible to ever repent without Jesus Christ being Lord of our lives! Repentance is a gift which is given to us when we surrender our lives to Him."
Really? John the Baptist was calling men to repent and be baptized and to bring "fruits meet for repentance". Noteworthy that John was baptizing concurrently with the disciples baptizing too! (John 3:23). John said, "he that is of the earth is earthly". Then, I gather that there is an "earthly" part of us that must need be redeemed through repentance, and this comes first and not after.
---Nana on 1/28/09

With my share of experiences we must believe and have faith. God gives us the ability to make our own choices. But he right choice is his will. Be wise because the good of our deeds will be given in full.
---ruthy on 1/28/09

My God is bigger than you are. My God is stronger than you are. My God went to the cross for me. My God was innocent. Without my God I can do nothing.
---catherine on 1/28/09

Catherine, you are very pious. What would you do if you saw a policeman about to kill an unarmed citizen. Would God tell you to just depend on him? You have been excessively mind conditionned by the evil one. Obedience sometimes means risking your life. The one or two who get to Heaven will be people who risked or gave their lives for others not the one or two hundred who watch and depend on God while their neighbour needs them to intervene. Noah did not depend on God, but he built an Ark in OBEDIENCE to God. God can speak through anyone and even through animals. You just need to get knowledge - spiritual knowledge. Then open your eyes to the needs around you.
---frances008 on 1/28/09

What do you think is true humility...It is total dependence upon the living God. The one or two of us who are, will be most highly rewarded in heaven.
---catherine on 1/28/09

Bryan~ Nice post!
---Anne on 1/28/09

This saying is completely nonbiblical, because if Jesus only helped those who helped themselves, then nobody would get saved! That is the whole reason that we need our Savior, because we can't help ourselves! Before Jesus saves us, we are slaves to sin, and by His blood we are bought to become slaves to righteousness. It is impossible to ever repent without Jesus Christ being Lord of our lives! Repentance is a gift which is given to us when we surrender our lives to Him. It is Jesus living His life through us! Without Him we would never be able to live righteously in the sight of God the Father! We are kept by grace through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord, and being perfected in Him until the day of His return when we will be caught up to Him!
---Bryan on 1/27/09

"Augusta -It is not enough to just hear Scripture recited in repetition, it must be explained which is why the office of Teacher is appointed."

Helen- you were brought up in CHURCH!! You lucky woman!
I sat on FAR more many barstools than pews when I was a kid. I can count on ONE hand how many times I was taken to church, but it didn't stop me from learning, Helen.

The CC has RCIA, catechism classes... people to ASK about what you don't understand.

You lucky woman.
---augusta on 11/25/08

Thanks Augusta, and bless you too!
---Christina on 11/17/07

Helen. This is the context of my post. re: Jay Billings: "My apologies to the blog. Helen 5378 is my 15 year old daughter. She is a faithful person, but is not a fundamentalist. As you might suspect, her postings are meant to be extreme, and make people question their own extremism. my apologies." You then said: "I had never heard of Jay Billings until his post here. What he says about me is not true." I responded to this hoax against you.
---jhonny on 8/20/06

Jhonny - Hi. Took me some time to find this Blog again. Not totally sure what you are saying, but if you think I hate people that is not true. I do hate false doctrines and false teachings and I do point out the errors. Bless you.
---Helen_5378 on 8/19/06

Heh Helen, So I'm embarassed. This is a familar tactic. You are obviously getting to your adversaries when they resort to dissemblance. Pr 26:24 He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him; You see it's a tactic of the hatred business. Pr 12:20 Deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counsellors of peace is joy.
Peace and health.
---jhonny on 8/12/06

Lupe 2618 - Once again, thank you for the encouragement. I just love being here. Bless you brother.
---Helen_5378 on 8/12/06

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2. That is the good part. Even if the one we speak to doesn't ever agree, others that read and study that have had problems on certain things will now know more about the faith that is "in Christ" and not on themselves. Men has taken a step ahead of God and somehow feel they are in control. Again thanks for the hard work you do.
---Lupe2618 on 8/12/06

Helen, you are young to me. I am 60 and just became a great grand father two days ago. Thank you for clearing it up about your dad too. You are doing a great job with all of your answers and I know the credit is for the Lord. Since you begin to answer many continued to pick the Bible up and are beginning to study just because of your answers, so it does have an effect even when their intentions are wrong. The more truth we put out the more people will study even to prove us wrong.
---Lupe2618 on 8/12/06

Lisa - Thanks. He's only up to his knees? LOL.

JohnT - That's ok. LOL.

Thanks guys for making me laugh -- I needed it. Bless you all. I'll see you here, or there, or in the air!!! LOL.
---Helen_5378 on 8/12/06

Lupe 2618 - I sure wish I was young again, but I am not. I am 53 years old and I had never heard of Jay Billings until his post here. What he says about me is not true. My father passed away back in the 1980s. Hope this will set the record straight for good now. Bless you -- you do a wonderful job too ... keep up the good work.
---Helen_5378 on 8/12/06

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Jay, You got me good! LOL

Helen, sorry for that

Jay; Be aware. What goes around, comes around.
---John_T on 8/12/06

Thank you Helen for bringing that up. Lying is a sin, and Jay is in a mess of it up to his knee's. I thank you so much for your hard work Helen and what you have printed. You could teach some here a lot. Your hard stand is to the point and if the point is true then what is the wrong in it if it is doing the will of God. Thanks for the clear-up.
---lisa on 8/12/06

Jay, Helen could "teach someone here" a thing or two or a lot about Justification by faith. It seems a few persons here answering have gone out of your path, listening to wrong preaching. I sure don't mean lost, just not able to give God His due.
---karen on 8/11/06

Jay, I too have read much of Helen's responses and I believe she is doing a great job of answering. I know sometimes they touch someone's believes and she will hear of it but when someone tells the truth the way she does it shows that young people can work for the Lord too. Helen has all of my blessings and she is a great help on line. I like to follow up on her statements many times, but she does good on her own.
---Lupe2618 on 8/11/06

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Jay Billings - I really do not appreciate a joke or whatever it is supposed that you have just said that I am your daughter. I am a 53 year old woman, and my dad died many years ago. What irritates me about you stating that is that you have already led at least a couple of people here to think you were telling the truth.
---Helen_5378 on 8/11/06

Jay: you were not joking? I fully expected Helen to appear and rebut you! If what you're saying is true and your daughter's intentions were merely satirical, she is one sophisticated young lady :). I can't say I agree with the deception but I echo John's suggestion to allow her back on the blog. Her contributions as the real deal will be awesome and much appreciated. God Bless.
---Benny on 8/10/06

You are being a great father, monitoring your daughter on the net, even here.
Here is an idea, turn a neg into a positive, and blog together. Let her think with you the responses, and you can tell her if she goes off track.
Unless you have forbid her blogging, she has done nothing wrong, and the exposure to various people from agnostics, mormons and SDAs, crackpots along with us "regular" (LOL) people can help her mature and for you to grow together
---John_T on 8/10/06

Hello Jay. No need to apologize for your beautiful daughter, full of wisdom and conviction. Congratulations to you for encouraging her to use her own mind, and allowing her the free will for choice and judgment. Peace.
---JHONNY on 8/10/06

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All. My apologies to the blog. Helen 5378 is my 15 year old daughter. She is a faithful person, but is not a fundamentalist. As you might suspect, her postings are meant to be extreme, and make people question their own extremism.

my apologies
---jay_billings on 8/10/06

Jhonny - Peace to you also. "Vaticanus means place of divination" -- If divination is a controlling thing then yes RCC is absolutely a religion of mind control. The people in the RCC are totally blinded by all the untruths they have been told. Only God can get through to them.
---Helen_5378 on 8/10/06

"Augusta, I read your answer again and again and I think I got what you were saying now on fundamentalist."

Lupe, sorry to confuse you. I just meant that as a fundamentalist I believed the same thing you do about the Cath Church & no one could have changed my mind either.
---augusta on 8/10/06

Mima - All glory be to the Lamb forever. Yes I am a brand plucked from the fire. Jesus has set me totally free from all religion. I now look to Jesus and what He has already done for me in His finished work on the Cross for me.
---Helen_5378 on 8/9/06

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Alan 8869ofUK - I cannot help but notice that you have a very big problem with the truth being pointed out to catholics. Why is this?
---Helen_5378 on 8/9/06

Augusta, I read your answer again and again and I think I got what you were saying now on fundamentalist. It is frustrating sometimes but the first thing we have to remember that we cannot change anyone, only God can. We can only give out the truth, if it is truth, it will not return void for it will do what God intends it for. It could be for someone else or for the person speaking it. Somehow God uses His truth to teach. Thank you sister
---Lupe2618 on 8/9/06

Emcee - I do not hold a grudge as you say. I simply hate untruths. I not only hate the lies of the RCC but of all other cults too e.g. SDAs, JWs, LDS etc. etc. I cannot stand by and hear what you say and not tell you that you are wrong and headed straight for hell. I love you.
---Helen_5378 on 8/9/06

Emcee - I came out of the RCC when I saw hypocrisy. I was told at school that church would do me good. A family member would come home from church in a much much worse mood than before they went. I saw this and came out. And yes I am complete --- I am complete in Christ (Colossians 2:10). It is God Who opens people's eyes so they see the truth. If you don't know Jesus, then you do not know anything.
---Helen_5378 on 8/9/06

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Hello Helen. Your convictiion to the truth is all the evidence I need. Conviction is a meaning of faith and faith is evidence. Thank you for your insights and disclosures into the catholic church. I was told vaticanus means place of divination. Is there any veracity to that? Peace.
---jhonny on 8/9/06

Frank Cos - No of course a person who raped and killed somebody without repentance would not go to heaven. God says that in His Word -- see Galatians 5:19-21, and 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 for a list of the people who will not go to heaven. Having said that when a person is born-again they have a new nature and the desires to do the things they did before is gone and there is a desire to do right things. That does not mean that a person will never sin again -- only in Heaven will we be sinless.
---Helen_5378 on 8/9/06

Augusta - I have been telling you over and over and over what God says in His Word. You do not want to listen to what I have to say simply because I am not a catholic. Furthermore, you do not like the fact that I quote directly from Scripture alone.
---Helen_5378 on 8/9/06

frank_cos I am confused. You say "No one can for sure, not you, not me, not anyone. God decides."

Are you talking about Unconditional Election, or something else?

If something else, please elaborate.
---John_T on 8/9/06

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As far as I know it is not in the Bible. I like this saying better. "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for life." That is not in the Bible either and I don't know who wrote it. It is good to help people in need. Luke 10:33-37
---Creamcup on 8/9/06

What has happened to the question??
Out of some 150 blogs, only some of the first dozen or so made any attempt to answer the question. Sadly, discussion on this intersting subject was blown away first by those who started to attack the Roman Church, and by RCs attempts to defend their church.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/9/06

Augusta, I don't know if what you said is good or bad by fundamentalist. If it is good, then great and if not, sorry you feel that way. I cannot look into someone's heart but I can only answer as I have been taught and as much as I have learned. God will figure it all out one day. Frank, We walk by faith in Christ, and when someone walks by faith they don't go around killing people. The Spirit of God is in them. Don't you believe this?
---Lupe2618 on 8/9/06

Deb, you said you were sorry you ever asked the question. You must still be sorry. How does such a simple question turn into such RC v nonRC battle?
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/9/06

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Mima writes: "Congratulations Helen: you have expressed some truths and you have seen the results."

Mima, I'm like Missouri. Just telling me you're right over & over isn't enough. You have to show me. ;o
---augusta on 8/9/06

Lupe, no prob. I understand the frustration, I use to be a fundamentalist myself. lol

How's this? (Jack might recognize it)

"Faith without works is an illusion, and works without faith is idolatry."
---augusta on 8/9/06

Congratulations Helen: you have expressed some truths and you have seen the results. There is no possibility that those that oppose Your views could be wrong. The reason being they have learned it by catechism and much ritualistic performance. I thank God for your freedom Helen and appreciate your salvation. Are you not a brand plucked from the fire?
---mima on 8/9/06

Helen -

If a "born-again" person suddenly decides to rape and kill someone (and then not seek forgiveness), under your scenario, they happily go to heaven. You can't actually believe that! That kind of belief system created the terrorists we have now have, who feel righteous in killing innocents.

very dangerous

teach love
---frank_cos on 8/9/06

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Helen::At 17 you state you came out of the catholic Church & bear a grudge against the Doctrines taught. Really--what do you really mean at 17 you had not acquired a full knowledge about Jesus so "Who opened your eyes"I am really concerned, because you are so incomplete & have strayed far.I follow your answers closely .God be with you.
---Emcee on 8/9/06

Thank you Alan, we might be on the same path after all. I did appolize for my remark and I guess the answers from Morgan did get to me. I have decided not to go there anymore, too many accusations and it only brings out hate. No reason to give room to hate at all. Again sorry Augusta, sorry also because I thought you are a brother. Thanks.
---Lupe2618 on 8/9/06

Helen, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. (Gal 5:22). Take heed of this the next time you post, especially in relation to Catholics. You may not agree with their doctrines, but it does not mean you should launch an angry tirade and make baseless statements about Catholics. You are being a very bad witness. Take this as a loving rebuke from a brother in Christ.
---Benny on 8/9/06

Helen -

You are simply wrong about the Catholic faith. I can only assume you left because for whatever reason you were misinterpreting mass. Jesus is at the center of every Catholic...sure there is a church, statues, crusifix, etc, and catholics do love mary and the apostles, but they don't assume they are god. Jesus is God to catholics. You are simply wrong.
---frank_cos on 8/9/06

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Augusta, on my answer I meant grand child. I am sorry for my remark about understanding. I guess I forget my place and my purpose in answering sometimes. Please forgive me. I should not have stated what I did, and should just have answered without a remark.
---Lupe2618 on 8/9/06

Lupe ... I was going to point out that Augusta is saying exactly what you are quoting at her: "Faith without Works is dead"
But there does seem to be a difference between the Works that folllow Faith ... Love of God, love of and service to others,, and bringing the message to others, and what people, ex RCs say the RCC requires, which seems to be adherence to rules, and practice.
Nevertheless, I don't think the two are as apart as you imagine.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/9/06

Sister Deb, there is no reason to get upset. Many on line are from different denominations and have many different views. What did you think? That everyone was from the same one and all thought the same? Don't be sorry, it will only bring truth out on the open. Truth always wins.
---karen on 8/8/06

2. now you can argue and make the passages read something else but that is your fault, not God's. He explained it very clear and no interpretation is needed to understand those passeges. Catholic theology has changed it to fit their believes, so penance and indulgence is a part of their faith, but it is not from Scripture.
---Lupe2618 on 8/8/06

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Augusta, faith without works is dead. When faith is there, works follow. If there is no works, there was no faith to begin with. How hard is that to understand? What does someone have to do to make you understand that passage? My child can understand and he is small. When someone has true "faith"(In Christ) works will follow because the Spirit lives within the saved person. When there is no works, there is no spirit. No faith.
---Lupe2618 on 8/8/06

Frank Cos - That really truly is the saddest thing I have heard for a long time. You say that you do not know where you are going. Once a person becomes born-again they have total assurance by the Spirit of God that they are going to heaven. There are those who propose that nobody knows -- that is only because they themselves do not know and it is a tool of the devil to stop people from believing and trusting in Jesus for their salvation.
---Helen_5378 on 8/8/06

Frank Cos - Catholics as a whole do not believe that Jesus is their salvation. They believe in just about everything else -- the pope, Mary, sacraments, baptism, signs & wonders, etc. But they do not believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. They talk about Jesus but mostly talk about things they must do to get to heaven, which is not Biblical in any way shape or form. If you knew what God's Word says, then you would know that what they say is not true.
---Helen_5378 on 8/8/06

Augusta - The church that Jesus has built is that of His very own born-again Christians who are washed clean with His precious Blood shed on the Cross for sin. If you are truly born-again then you are free to go to another church too if you want. What I said was this -- do not trust in a church for your salvation.
---Helen_5378 on 8/8/06

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I can't believe you people are still arguing.I am sorry I ever asked this question. I had no idea how it would set you off, LOL.
---deb5863 on 8/8/06


in response to: "be saved from sin, I don't care who you are, you must believe in Jesus' payment of sin on the Cross only for your redemption."

That is what Catholics believe as well. I don't know what your catholic experience was like, but Catholics as a whole agree with your quote above.

As for whether i know where i'm going, nope. No one can for sure, not you, not me, not anyone. God decides. Your faith is a path, but only God decides who gets in.
---frank_cos on 8/8/06


"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only."

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2: 22,26)

Faith without works is dead. And dead means dead.
---augusta on 8/8/06

To trust in Jesus is to trust in Him and Him alone, and to not put my trust in any person or church.
---Helen_5378 on 8/7/06

Jesus didn't build a church for no reason, Helen. And if it wasn't trustworthy He wouldn't have said the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
---augusta on 8/8/06

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My dad use to say... only dogs get mad.
And everytime I'd ask my dad for a dog he'd say... "Nooo, the bible says not to have the price of a dog in your pocket." LOL
---augusta on 8/8/06

Helen writes: "etc. etc. etc. And never being told that I was sinner and needed Jesus to save me from my sin."

Actually it's our parents who suppose to make sure we learn what we are taught. So *if anyone* you should be mad at them for your lack of knowledge.

I hope Jesus saves you from your anger, Helen. You seem so angry.
---augusta on 8/8/06

Helen: "Augusta - The "rules" I am talking about are such things as "you have to church or you will go to hell"..."

Well I know now you weren't paying attn. because the Church never condemns us. That isn't her job. Her job is to teach & baptize. And she teaches us that we are *in danger of losing our salvation* by being disobedient, just like Jesus said.
---augusta on 8/8/06

3. that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus" Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ., even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by workf of the law; for by works of the law no flesh shall be justified."
---Lupe2618 on 8/8/06

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2. who do we say as believers, that gives life? We know that God gives life. When a person is lost, he is dead to sin. His spirit is dead spiritually, to the things of God. "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ( by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
---Lupe2618 on 8/8/06

Augusta, there is only two kind, Those of the flesh and those of the Spirit of God. There is no one born of the water for the water cannot make you a new creation. God's Spirit saves a person lost. He gives life to the dead spirit in the lost person. Water has never created anything but is good to drink and can save you if you need it to stay alive. It is also good for bathing so that we don't smell. It does not give life.
---Lupe2618 on 8/8/06

2/... I find myself responding to catholics because what they say is so glaringly Scripturally wrong. And they use quite a bit of Scripture too albeit twisted and distorted. Plus the fact that having been brought up in it I do know an awful lot about it. There are others here for example that deal with the SDA's because they know a lot about their teachings, plus others that are cults and in error. Jesus is the way the truth and the life and nobody goes to the Father but by Him.
---Helen_5378 on 8/8/06

Frank Cos - Jesus Christ is so real to me and since He came into my heart He has done wondrous works in my life. He has set me free from Alcohol, Valium, Cigarettes, Fear, Agrophobia, Nerves, to name just a few. Jesus paid the price for all those things on the Cross. Jesus is very very real and wants to have a living relationship with you too. Do you know Jesus?
---Helen_5378 on 8/8/06

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Frank Cos - I don't "feel" I would have gone to hell, I know that I know that I would have. I know that now that is. It explains why I was so very terrified of dying until I came to Christ. Frank - Do you know that you know beyond a shadow of doubt just where you are going should you drop dead right now?
---Helen_5378 on 8/8/06

Frank Cos - What you are saying is simply not true. There is no peace to be found in any church nor any salvation either. Peace and salvation are in Christ. To be saved from sin, I don't care who you are, you must believe in Jesus' payment of sin on the Cross only for your redemption. Once you are born-again you can then very clearly see the truth. If you are not born-again you just cannot see what is truth and what is not truth. Once you know Jesus you really do know Him.
---Helen_5378 on 8/8/06

Helen -

The fact that you feel you would have gone to hell had you stayed in the catholic church is YOUR personal experience. For whatever reason it didn't work for you. BUT that is no reason to then say it doesn't work for ANYONE else either! Its a wonderful, fulfilling, christian experience that leads to salvation for a great many people. Pray that you find peace with your fellow christians.

teach love
---frank_cos on 8/7/06

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