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Bill To End Abortion In America

There is currently a bill in the Senate that would end abortion in America. What can we do to get it passed?

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 ---Susan on 8/3/06
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Donna - *"Life" undeniably begins at conception.*

I am not sure at all if what you state is correct as we read in Scripture that the life is in the blood (Lev. 17:11) and the fetus does not have any blood in it until about 8 days later.
---lee on 8/30/06

Lee- Now that's an interesting idea!...the Muslims believing that fetuses have a soul only after 2 mo. I can't find a biblical account of a Jewish view.

I suppose we might study this, if there was some agreement about what a "soul" is. "Life" undeniably begins at conception. But the soul? Some characteristics of the "soul" might be related to brain development...others, I don't know.
---Donna2277 on 8/30/06

Since the Islams believe that the soul does not enter a child until the fetus is over 2 months old, they should not have any problems using the morning after pill. I sure wish we could establish what they believe as a fact.
---lee on 8/29/06

lee- I image the "rate" of abortions will eventually decrease.
What amazes me is that PRESCRIPTION drugs with fewer side effects than the "morning-after" pill have been withdrawn from the market as "unsafe".
And this is an OTC (non-prescription), drug supposedly as safe as Acetaminophen (Tylenol) and Diphenhydramine(Benadryl)!
---Donna2277 on 8/26/06

I am wondering how the morning after pill will affect the abortion statistics.
---lee on 8/25/06

Women over the age of 18 may buy the morning-after pill without a prescription, federal health officials ruled this morning (Aug. 24, 2006), capping a contentious 3-year effort to ease access to the emergency

Another victory for NARAL
---Phil_the_Elder on 8/24/06

Mike M--Children in school are now taught to ask themselves, "How do you feel about it?" rather than, "Is it right or wrong?" What basis for decision making is this? Do we want our police, our judges, our employers and leaders to decide on this basis? Moral Relativists say that all moral judgements are equally valuable...which is an "absolutist" statement in itself. If everybody with differing opinions is RIGHT, then nobody is.
---Donna2277 on 8/20/06

Mike M-- I'm not against teaching evolution, but without teaching the possibility of a CREATOR, it appears that a random combination of cells developed into life and eventually into humanity. We are a cosmic accident, no more than a collection of cells. A fetus is a smaller clump of cells..neither of us has any particular meaning or purpose.
---Donna2277 on 8/20/06

I agree Donna2277. That's exactly my point.
---Leon on 8/18/06

I do not see that teaching 'evolution' in school has anything to do with abortion. All human life has value. Moral relitivism? If there are to be moral absolutes, whose will be enforced, and how? The climate that allows abortion is, in general extreme secularism, and yes, selfishness. A baby ends up in a dixie cup due to doctors, politicians, and courts that don't care. Those who condemn abortion vote for these pro-choice politicians and not those who fear God. People get the govwerment they deserve.
---MikeM on 8/18/06

There is currently a bill in the Senate that would end abortion in America. What can we do to get it passed?
Write your congressperson of your concern to encourage him or her to vote for the bill.
However, about the best we will ever do is to allow exceptions for abortions, say in case the life of the mother is threaten or in case of incest, or rape.
---lee on 8/17/06

The parents who are "aborting" their live children are products of an educational system that teaches evolution (we are all accidents, human life has little value) and "moral relativism" (MY concept of what's right is the only one that matters).
As if humans are not already selfish enough!.
It's fine to provide discipline and teach self-sacrifice, but being "born again" is all that will truly bring it about. JESUS still provides the only hope for change.
---Donna2277 on 8/17/06

The political climate to end abortion in America, sadly does not exist. People freely voted pro-choice politicians, and the rsults are clear. The courts do not want to deal with the issus. I do ask a question I have never been given an answer, if killing (and it is kiling) the unborn is murder, then if outlawed, what do we do with those who have/perform them? NEVER have a gotten a straight answer to that question.
---MikeM on 8/17/06

I myself do not believe in abortion a woman can carry a child to full term; and, if they don't want to keep the child there a lot of people who can't have children that would love to adopt them. The logical thing to do is pray that our Senators will be shown that abortion is wrong. Then write to our Senators and ask them to rethink their policy if they are for abortion.
---Norma7374 on 8/17/06

cont'd: If children aren't trained to live holy, Godly lives, they're in fact aborted. So, when they grows up (???) they think nothing is wrong with murdering babies. They're self-centered, self-serving, sinfully selfish !

When one is properly disciplined, he/she is self-sacrificing & always considers serving the good of others over "self".

Bottomline: Sadly, those aborted "outside of the womb" support murdering babies "inside the womb".
---Leon on 8/17/06

It's one helluva situation! Abortion is, without a doubt, murder & those who actively & passively condone this heinous genocidal practice will not escape God's judgment.
One blogger said, "...we live in a fallen world. Until Jesus returns, it will get worse -- not better." That's Bible (2 Tim. 3) & I agree!
Personally, I believe there are probably more children aborted annually outside of the womb than are murdered inside of their mother's body.
---Leon on 8/17/06

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We should agree to disagree Ryan. I'm not going to bombard the blog with posts to argue about it with you. Everything will happen according to God's will so whether it's you thats right or me, it does not change anything. Children are going to die and we cant stop it. Not just abortion, car accidents, etc. kill children in the womb all the time. They will go somewhere so we should trust God to be just. God bless you too Ryan.
---tofurabby on 8/12/06

tofurabby, Ezekiel 18 is speaking of adult children not infants and wee lads and lasses.

Please study the story of the Passover. The power of the blood of the Lamb must be understood to bring I Corinthians 7:14 to clearity. God bless you brother.
---Ryan on 8/12/06

tofurabby, Scripture says: Deu 5:9 'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth {generations} of those who hate Me,
Num 14:18 'The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear {the guilty,} visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth {generations.}'
---Ryan on 8/12/06

tofurabby, You say: "The child does not bear the iniquity of his father
---Ryan on 8/12/06

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tofurabby, God is not speaking of all the qualities of little children. Children at young ages are defiant, rebellious, stubborn, and self-centered. We hope through the guidance of the Holy Spirit we raise them in love and someday they will be accepted into the kingdom. The qualities Jesus is commenting on in children is their humbleness, eagerness and dependency.
---Ryan on 8/12/06

tofurabby, Matthew 19:14; 18:3 These scriptures, and others, certainly do tell us HOW to enter but it is not a guarantee as to WHO will enter the kingdom. If you have children you will understand the qualities of children. I have a two year old toddler and a four month old daughter, not to mention young nieces and nephews. Children know when they are being disobedient and they press their boundaries all the time.
---Ryan on 8/12/06

tofurabby, No one can refuse evil. This ability was only given to the Messiah it is a part of His uniqueness and divinity. Mans heart is evil from his youth. Only our choice to accept the gift of salvation can save but man cannot refuse evil separate from God.
---Ryan on 8/12/06

tofurabby, I am surprised you are using Isaiah 7:16 because this scripture is within the prophecy of the Messiah.

Isa 7:14 -16 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. "He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows {enough} to refuse evil and choose good. "For before the boy will know {enough} to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.
---Ryan on 8/12/06

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Sin does not equal knowledge of good and evil. The choice to disobey God allowed sin to enter the world. Because man knew the difference between good and evil he could not take from the tree of life and eat. Cause and effect. So as we can see there is a huge difference between sin and having the knowledge of good and evil
---Ryan on 8/12/06

tofurabby, Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it';
---Ryan on 8/12/06

tofurabby, The first half speaks of sanctifying the union of marriage through the blood of the Lamb on the believer. Than it says "Otherwise" what is the otherwise there for? Otherwise is used to say if you don't have "X" and "Y" (X=Have a believer in the home & Y=Sanctified marriage) than you will not get "Z" (Z=holy children
---Ryan on 8/12/06

tofurabby, I love you brother. My perspective of the scripture is slightly different. I am not looking at half the scripture. I am relating how the second half of the scripture relates to the first.
---Ryan on 8/12/06

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4. So you can continue to rely on your half verse (but I wouldnt recommend it) and I will continue to read the mass of other scriptural evidences that supports the contrary.
---tofurabby on 8/11/06

3. A baby is not accountable for sin until he is old enough to be able to understand and accept the responsibility to obey God. We become sinners when we transgress God's law (1 John 3:4; James 1:13-15; Isa. 59:1,2). But a baby cannot understand God's law, so how could it be held accountable for violating it? The child does not bear the iniquity of his father, the only person held accountable for Adam's sin is Adam. Ezekiel 18:20; no one will be condemned for Adam's sin, except Adam! 2 Corinthians 5:10
---tofurabby on 8/11/06

2. Read: Matthew 19:14; 18:3 - The kingdom is for those who are like little children. To enter the kingdom, we must be converted and become like little children. If children are sinners, would this not mean that we must be converted and become like little sinners? Yet other passages show that to enter the kingdom we must become innocent or cleansed of sin (Col. 1:13,14). Therefore, becoming like little children must mean that children are innocent.
---tofurabby on 8/11/06

Ryan, your basing your belief here on half a scripture that is part of an answer to believers married to nonbelievers. It was not written about child salvation. That is unsound doctrine.

Isaiah 7:16 For before [age] the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good [accountability]

Deut. 1:39 your children [age], which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil [accountability]
---tofurabby on 8/11/06

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tofurabby, This is not a theory this is scriptural fact. I feel sorry for the lies you have accepted i.e. age of accountability & all children go to heaven. These are unscriptural and if you teach these lies God will hold you accountable.
---Ryan on 8/10/06

tofurabby, the term "Age of accountability" is not in the bible. This is a myth developed by man to perpetuate lies. The sound doctrine remains that if the blood of the Lamb of God is not on your household than your marriage is not sanctified and your childrens souls are unclean.
---Ryan on 8/10/06

tofurabby, your statement reminds me of this scripture:
2Ti 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but {wanting} to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
---Ryan on 8/10/06

Ryan ... I feel quite inadequate to continue the discussion. I was so bewildered when you started talking about TIME, and I am not clever enough to see what that has got to do with the subject.
So I tought "I will never understand Ryan, I had better keep quiet"
If you want further comment, I would aay that the situations you write about are recorded by men, with their perceptions. unlike some here, I do not believe that every word was dictated by God.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/9/06

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all children under the age of accountability will see heaven. end of story. Base your theory on an incorrect interpretation of half of a scripture if you want.
---tofurabby on 8/9/06

alan8869_of_UK & tofurabby, I see neither of you wish to continue this discussion. I will take your silence as consent. Thank you both for engaging in this conversation.
---Ryan on 8/9/06

alan8869, This is the same God that destroyed Soddom & Gamorah; the same God that ordered the Nation of Israel to slay every man, woman & child in the land of Canaan; the same God that slayed every firstborn of Egypt. Were the children in all of these instances found holy or unclean? Didn't God promise Abraham He would not destroy Soddom & Gamorah if He found 10 people to be righteous? Wouldn't children have been included in the search for these 10? Are these facts included in your perception of God?
---Ryan on 8/7/06

alan8869_of_UK, your response has everything to do with time it says so in your response:
"...1 year old toddler..."
One year old is a measurement of time.
---Ryan on 8/7/06

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Ryan, my response has nothing to do with perception of time, it is to do with the difference between your perception of God and mine, and is to do with the words of Jesus.
Tofurabby ... I do not understand from your blog, what is your answer to the question?
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/7/06

tofurabby, The unbelievers home does not have this blood to sanctify their marriage and deem their children holy. How will God be able to look upon an unclean soul and not condemn it. The soul must be washed clean with the blood of the lamb, if the blood of the lamb is not in the household through a parent than God must execute Justice because He is infinitely Just.
---Ryan on 8/7/06

tofurabby, It was the disobedience that was sin not the knowledge of good and evil. Because of their sin:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
it is because of the childs inate sin they are condemned to hell. But God through his infinite mercy allowed a provision not to judge children of Christians. The blood of the lamb is upon them until they have the maturity to accept this blood for themselves.
---Ryan on 8/7/06

tofurabby, it is true we are to enter the kingdom of heaven as children. This means we are to be His children dependent on Him and eager to learn His ways. Again this has nothing to do with the cleanliness or holiness of the childs soul that is addressed in I Corinthians 7:14. Children may not have the knowledge of good and evil but it is not this knowledge that brought judgement. Adam & Eve were judged on their disobedience not what the transgression produced.
---Ryan on 8/7/06

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Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)"
Jonah 4:11 "And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand" God asked about children who are to young to distinguish their right hand from their left, let alone good from evil.
---tofurabby on 8/7/06

alan8869_of_UK, your response also shows that you are thinking strictly in terms of time. Keep in mind that time is relevant to hummanity because it is an inescapable part of our paradigm. Man cannot comprehend abstract thought beyond time because it dictates everything we do. God, however is not constrained by time. He exists outside of time He created time. Time is not relavant to God. God is concerned with maturity and choices not time.
---Ryan on 8/7/06

Matt. 18:2,3 "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

become as little children... Jesus does not say holy children, he referred to children in a general sense as to include all of them. Why?
---tofurabby on 8/7/06

alan8869_of_UK, only if the 1 year old toddler had unbelieving parents.
Deu 5:9 'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth {generations} of those who hate Me,
---Ryan on 8/7/06

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So my friend's 1 year old toddler who died in a tragic accident has gone to hell
What a God!
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/7/06

tofurabby, Matthew 18:14 is concerning God's concern for "Lost sheep" it has no bearing on finding children Holy or unclean. The issue of children being holy or unclean is addressed in I Corinyhians 7:14. Let's look at it this way:

Christian + Christian = Holy Children
Christian + Unbeliever = Holy Children
Unbeliever + Unbeliever = Unclean Children
---Ryan on 8/7/06

Matthew 18:14
Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
---tofurabby on 8/7/06

God is saying if the marriage is not sanctified the children are unclean; however since the union is sanctified by the believer (The blood of the lamb is upon your household) the children will be passed over. This does not include adult children. At some point the child will decide to accept or deny Christ; that is between God & the individual.
---Ryan on 8/7/06

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After the semicolon the wording says:
"...;otherwise the children are unclean, but now they are holy."
The author does not say "and the children are sanctified." He uses: unclean & holy:

akathartos 1) not cleansed, unclean b) in a moral sense: unclean in thought and life.

hagios 1) most holy thing, a saint
---Ryan on 8/7/06

tofurabby, I understand the first part of the scripture. I understand the phrases that say' " sanctified by..." I acknowledge that the sanctification is referencing the connection that marriage brings "...will be one flesh..." I can understand the concern at the time, converting to Christianity and the questions one would have about being bonded to an unrepentant spouse. That is the first half of the scripture.
---Ryan on 8/7/06

2. The unbelieving spouse and children were now set apart because there is now a saved spouse that the lord can work through to help the rest of the family. Bottom line, that scripture is written as an aid to marital questions that believers have. It is not written to tell us who is going to heaven or hell.
---tofurabby on 8/6/06

You are reading it wrong Ryan... according to the way you read it an unsaved wife and child are saved because of a saved husband. I dont think that is what it means. This verse is to help those that thought their marriages were polluted and rejected by God because they were married to an unbeliever. Assurance that they should stick with their unsaved spouse because it is opposite of what they thought. cont.
---tofurabby on 8/6/06

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This is the true atrocity of abortion. Not only are these selfish people killing babies they are jeopardizing the unborn childs immortal soul.
---Ryan on 8/6/06

tofurabby, I am saying that some children do go to hell:
1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
---Ryan on 8/6/06

Matt. 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Isaiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Deut. 1:39 your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
---tofurabby on 8/5/06

Ryan, you seem to be saying that children go to hell. I did not help prove your point, if it was not morally wrong then yes, we would be for abortion to get kids into heaven... but it is wrong and WE would have to account for it. Like I said, why end it there, maybe you should be killed so we can send you to heaven too. But then what happens to the person that does it? John had the HS in the womb... if he were aborted, guess where he would have went! He didnt have a chance to accept Christ.
---tofurabby on 8/5/06

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all abortion is against Gods word. before I was formed in my mothers womb God knew me,you ,everyone.The unborn are innocent blood described in the bible.taking of innocent blood is sin matter what reason you try to justfy it day if you make it to heaven you will meet all the murdered children they are there.
---tom2 on 8/5/06

Children may be innocent in a sense that they have not committed any crime. They are however, not innocent of sin. We are all guilty of having sin in us it came from the transgression of Adam & Eve. As sin entered into the world by one man.
---Ryan on 8/5/06

One more thing for the both of you to think about. You say children are innocent. Other than Jesus how has anyone escaped the judgement of Adam & Eve? TO say anyone other than our Lord Messiah is born innocent is to deny His uniquenesss & divinity. Read Romans 3:23 all have sinned (This includes those in the womb, infants and children)
---Ryan on 8/5/06

tofurabby & mary- Thank you for proving my point. It is reduculous to think that all children that die go to heaven. If this were the case Christians would not be opposed to the procedure.
tofurabby- You are correct the Holy Spirit did come to John while he was still in the womb. Arey you suggesting the Holy Spirit comes to all unborn children than leaves at some point in their life so they may accept Him back? That sounds pretty rediculous, not to mention unscriptural.
---Ryan on 8/5/06

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Ryan, if that was the case then all churches should convert to abortion factories and we should try to kill every kid we see... hey, you are saved, right? I guess we should kill you too while we are at it just in case you backslide some day we can secure your salvation now. ...rediculous.

You cant take innocent life, where is the morality in that? Why is it a false belief? John the baptist had the holy spirit in the womb. explain that.
---tofurabby on 8/4/06

I care about what happens real children after they are born. On a world wide basis most unwanted children don't get adopted. All the right to lifers do is perpetuate child abuse and world hunger. What happens to these unwanted children is hideous, the one who die starvation or disease before the age of 6 are the lucky ones the others suffer subhuman existences for the rest of their lives with very few exceptions. It is far better that they not be born than suffer the life that you want put them through.
---Phil_the_Elder on 8/4/06

Ryan that is ridiculous...with that logic, why don't we just kill all the children of the world? Because God said not to shed innocent unborn baby is innocent (as innocent as a human can be, not perfect...there is a difference). You seem to have the same logic as Andrea Yates...the mother who killed her five children so that they would go to Heaven. They found her insane.
---mary on 8/4/06

I think abortions would still be allowed when birth defects are known or "highly suspected".
Just like in the days when a "legal" abortion was done to "save a woman's life"...child birth became quite a "dangerous" event. I think the science of predicting birth defects would make GIANT strides, if abortion was again made illegal.
Nobody but a physician argues medical findings with a physician..and they are notoriously protective of one another.
---Donna2277 on 8/4/06

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Mike M and Mary-As a nurse,I remember well when abortion was illegal. NO women prosecuted. Few doctors indicted...and not as "murderers" or anything near. "Legal" abortions (mother's life at stake) were frequent(amazingly so)and performed in a hospital. No federal enforcement.Unwed moms kept baby or gave it up for adoption. If abortion is illegal again...doubt there'd be much enforcement..just like immigration laws..ignored in most cases. It would hardly be a top priority to gov't.
---Donna2277 on 8/4/06

Though it is my heart that there would never be another abortion, we live in a fallen world. Until Jesus returns, it will get worse - not better. I applaud the attempt to undo Roe v Wade, but alas... doubt it will gain much ground, let alone be passed. We must pray, teach and reach out to the women in our area. I pray that my influence will help the women in my life to choose life... We can save many babies - even if one-by-one.
---daphn8897 on 8/4/06

Sue. The shots did work in your case. The proof is your healthy babies. Rh incompatibility does not affect the mother or how she delivers the baby. The baby, IF is not the womans first, is a "blue baby" and needs a total transfusion. Hospitals routinely give injections to new Rh neg mothers to protect their next child. This is rarely a problem these days.
---Donna2277 on 8/4/06

Well according to some people all children that are in the womb and infants and very young automatically go to heaven when they die. If you have this belief why are you so opposed to abortion? With this false belief, that all children go to heaven anyway, shouldn't abortion be considered the greatest tool of salvation the secular government has bestowed. Lets see in the thirty years abortion has been legal approx. thirty million children have been aborted. So isn't that thirty million souls saved?
---Ryan on 8/4/06

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Mary-punish the doctors who perform abortions? Well the women who go to have them are premeditating it as well. And it is murder? Then what do we do with murderers? Lots of gas chambers would have to be built to kill the millions who had, perform abortions. Also, morning after pill, and ru486 are about to enter the market big time, the 'goverment' will have less control than ever, over people.
---MikeM on 8/4/06

Funny thing is (if you can call anything about abortion funny) it is considered to be a liberal position to support abortion, and although many types of people have abortions, the majority come from liberals. What is funny about it is there would be millions of legal 18yr old voters that would be alive today if it wasnt for abortion. Liberals are reducing their own voters, literally. Irony is fun!
---tofurabby on 8/4/06

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