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Does God Have A Wife

Does God have a wife? If not, where did Jesus come from and what did God do before he created the earth?

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 ---Mary on 8/8/06
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Since the Bible says we neither marry nor are given in marriage in Heaven it seems God who made the rules would act accordingly. The Bride is the church therefore the collective members who make up the church are part of that Brideship. No one person but all who accept Christ as son of God,dead,buried,and risen,now alive in Heaven. The Bible warns about corrupting the simplicity which is in Christ. Also Rev warns about taking from and adding to Rev,sure concept applies to all of Bible too.
---Darlene_1 on 1/18/08


Genesis 3:15. Here, we see that 'her seed' is to bruise the serpent's heel.

Some believe 'her seed' to mean Mary's egg. This cannot be true. If it were, the verse would be translated Mary's egg will crush satan's head.

The Hebrew word for seed is 'zeras'. It means posterity or child... not egg. Genesis is speaking of Mary's offspring, Jesus Christ.

There is no Scripture to indicate seed of the woman was an egg. As a matter of fact, egg is only mentioned once in the Word of God.
---Ronald on 1/17/08


Marys post in early August is B/Fwith my question which has no relatio to the subjectso if any one disputes the issue it was not my idea.Trees transplanted take a long time to take root so lets see what happens.
---Emcee on 9/20/07


(Mark 12:23-27) In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels which are in heaven.
---Mr._Graham on 9/20/07


And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
---Mr._Graham on 9/20/07




Where does it say in the bible we must Nail our sins to the cross & what do we use for Nails & hammer.Any biblical references anyone.or is this a man made illusion.
---Emcee on 9/20/07


Consider the birth of Jesus a miracle. Why are you ppl so analytical? Why do we need to know whether God has a wife? Why do we need to know how Jesus was conceived? I am just so thankful that He is!! Thank you, God for giving us your Son. We really don't care how He came to be!
---marietta on 10/19/06


Augusta ... It was you who said "I think there is more evidence in the bible that Mary was sinless" So don't you think you should support that statement?
But the Bible certainly says that only Jesus is sinless. I could perhaps accept tradition in addition to scripture, but not where it contradicts scripture
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/19/06


"Augusta ... Yes we have been over this before, haven't we? But I do not recall your Biblical evidence that Mary was sinless."
First, Alan, could you give me your evidence from Scripture where we're to use the 'bible alone' as our rule of faith?
---augua9846 on 10/4/06


Augusta ... Yes we have been over this before, haven't we? But I do not recall your Biblical evidence that Mary was sinless.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/3/06




ALan Of Uk:Helen has been under great stress while you were awayShe is already fighting something within herself We in MO should back off & give her a chance to recoup& that is why I do not; to use an expresion "Go in for the kill" let patience Hope & Time & the fact you are right,prevail. Give her the love & space she needs.Peace be with you.
---Emcee on 10/3/06


Augua, so God creates us to be sinful, doesn't He? He picks and chooses us to be siinful, since sinfulness or the absence of such is a product of the way He creates us rather than our own learning from our environment? God forbid!
Mary DEFINITELY sinned, and that was why she NEEDED a savior. Is your bible written in chinese?
---Okebaram on 10/3/06


"Augusta ... I do not think it is necessary to teach that Mary is a sinner. It is enough to believe the Bible when it says that there has been none without sin except Jesus."
Alan, we've been over this, and just like the early church I don't agree with your interpretation of Scripture. I think there is more evidence in the bible that Mary was sinless.
If the Father could create the first Eve sinless then surely He would give no less to His own Son.
---augua9846 on 10/3/06


PART ONE:
Helen,
There is a distinct difference between conception and surrogacy. In conception, the egg of the mother is fertilized. In surrogacy the embryo is implanted. You can call "surrogacy" "conception" all you want but it does not make it so.
Adam was indeed human and from him every other human has descended. If Jesus were implanted he did not descend from Adam.
---Bruce5656 on 10/3/06


PART TWO:
By all accounts of scripture, Jesus was a descendent of David (and hence Adam.) If God could have died for humanity's sin he could have just appeared on the scene as an unknown prophet claiming to be God and forgiving sin. They would have crucified him just the same. He would have been "human" biologically speaking but not a descendent of Adam. Eve was told that her seed would bruise the serpents head.
---Bruce5656 on 10/3/06


PART THREE:
Paul said that Jesus was Romans 1:3, "made of the seed of David according to the flesh;" If he were not a descendent of Adam, he would no more be eligible to be the sacrifice for mans sin than any bull, lamb or goat. He had to be one of us. Not like us but one of us to die for us.
---Bruce5656 on 10/3/06


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Helen ... Surrogate mothers do not conceive.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/3/06


Augusta ... I do not think it is necessary to teach that Mary is a sinner. It is enough to believe the Bible when it says that there has been none without sin except Jesus.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/3/06


Helen, God has His own ways into doing things. Since Adam and Eve sinned, that's when giving birth through a womb begun. And since Jesus meant to take up all our sins and born into the world as a HUMAN. He has to be brought up into the world like normal human does. Taken care by parents too of course. Imagine Jesus just appears out of no where and suddenly teaching people about God. You think that will be easier to reach others? God has many reason to whatever He does.
---nic on 10/3/06


I believe Helen's answer is correct.
---mima on 10/3/06


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#2. "The Word of God did not merely pass through her...
No, He imbibed, He sucked up her blood and her substance in His Divine Person. He became man from her, and received her lineaments and her features as the appearance and character under which He should manifest Himself to the world. He was known, doubtless, by His likeness to her, to be her Son... Was it not fitting... that the Eternal Father should prepare her from this ministration by some preeminent sanctification?"
---augua9846 on 10/3/06


"Augusta ...At least I expected you to say where I would find the evidence."

Alan, I could ask the same of you. Since we don't agree on the interpretation of Scripture, do you have any evidence outside of Scripture that the church (prior to the 17th century) taught that Mary was a sinner?

Here's what John Henry Newman, who was a convert from Anglicanism, wrote on this:

"Mary was no mere instrument in God's dispensation..."

cont..
---augua9846 on 10/3/06


Bruce5656 - Jesus was fully human. He was also fully God at the same time. I do not understand the need for Mary's egg to be used. God made Adam without egg or sperm, and he was fully human. Mary conceived Jesus when Jesus was placed by The Holy Spirit into her womb.
---Helen_5378 on 10/3/06


We need to be careful of this subject: The Mormons believe:
Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended by any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit" (Religious Truths Defined, p.44).
---kathr4453 on 10/2/06


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Emcee ... I don't think I have misrepresented what you have said about Mary being the Mother of God.
I am trying to work out just why Helen rejects even the fact that she was the mother of Jesus earthly body.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/2/06


Okebaram ... If you read back, you will see that helen says that Jesus was inserted into Mary's womb, and that Mary was not Jesus real mother.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/2/06


Augusta ... At least I expected you to say where I would find the evidence.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/2/06


Helen says: **"Jesus simply took on human flesh, but without Mary's egg" **

God's Word says, "Behold, you [Mary] shall conceive and bring forth a son."

The process of conception requires the woman to provide the ovum.

Who do I believe? God's Word or Helen?
---Jack on 10/2/06


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Okebaram,
Helen has made it clear that she does
not believe that Jesus was of Mary's flesh. She said: "Jesus simply took on human flesh, but without Mary's egg"
Your response seems to indicate that you do not see the need for Jesus to be fully human either. "So her eggs may never even have been used."
Perhaps you could answer the questions I have asked Helen since she has not. Read my post on 10/1/06 below. Note also the reference to Romans 1:3.
---Bruce5656 on 10/2/06


Alan of Uk::I shall have to agree to disagree.The 2 errors you speak of is your perception which you are voicing. But not the WORD.There is no point gained, if you feel no is the answer, so be it.The choice is yours but to force that choice on another by your intelectual reasoning is in MHO wrong.You claim no bias against the CC.Is this it?
---Emcee on 10/2/06


People, calm down. When Helen says Mary was Jesus' surrogate mother, she isn't saying that Jesus didn't carry Mary's genes, or that He wasn't formed from her egg...she's talking spiritually, because Jesus wasn't actually created in her womb (though his body was); He just passed through it. Through her conception, He became flesh. Remember that Mary's egg wasn't fertilized by any sperm. So her eggs may never even have been used.
---Okebaram on 10/2/06


"Augusta "Alan, this is what the apostles taught"
Really?"

Yes, really.
---augua9846 on 10/2/06


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Helen::"The word was made flesh"YOU say PLACED the word of God says "CONCEIVED" Maybe you dont know the difference But we have to believe the Bible. Dont you agree.?
---Emcee on 10/2/06


Helen ... .
Free youself from the RC superstitions, and maybe you will be able to accept that Mary was a real mother, not a surrogate.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/2/06


Helen ... You say you are free of RC superstition, yet yuo seem still to be captive to it.
The RC makes Mary Mother of God, and to enable that says she was created in Genesis. They also say she had to be sinless to be His mother.
Both are RC errors, but your arguments follow their principles. So you say that since Mary was not sinless, she cannot have been mother of Jesus. But we are talking about His earthly body, not about the eternal Word
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/2/06


Helen ... a surrogate mother does not conceive.
Jesus' physical earthly body did not previously exist, although He did, as the Word.
Mary conceived Jesus' physical earthly body and was thus His true earthly mother (but not of the Word)
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/2/06


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Helen,
"Jesus already was!! "
Yes he was. John 1:1 However he was not human and he certainly did not have a physical body.
Please answer my question from before. If it were only necessary for Jesus to have a body like a man to be the sacrifice, why the virgin birth at all. Why not just appear on the scene like he did to Abram for example. Or why not come as a baby and be found by Mary like Moses was found in the bullrushes by the pharaoh's daughter.
---Bruce5656 on 10/2/06


Augusta "Alan, this is what the apostles taught"
Really?
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/2/06


Helen,
Part one is missing below.
It was something like this.
Consider this possibility: The sin nature is passed on throught the act of procreation. Psalms 51:5, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."
This is the commonly held view. That way, with Mary's egg being fertilized by an divine act of God (no sperm necessary, just a divinely created set of chromosomes to go with her's)
Then.... refer to part two below.
---Bruce5656 on 10/2/06


***Alan writes: Augusta ... You keep quoting people form the fourth century onwards, who made Mary into an ever-sinless ever-virgin. There is nothing in the Bible to justify making her anything but a normal human being, who was granted the privilege of being the mother of the earthly body of Christ***

Alan, this is what the apostles taught. It was handed down by the bishops who they taught it to. There is no conflict with Scripture because the oral and written word are both from the same source.
---augua9846 on 10/2/06


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***Augusta - ("Most of these men were taught by the apostles themselves.."). How did they manage that? Did the apostles live to be several hundred years old? Or did they teach them from the grave?***
"Most of these men were taught by the apostles themselves, *or others who were taught by them.*
---augua9846 on 10/2/06


3/... Jesus was fully human and sinless that is why the virgin birth so that He was not tainted by sin. You are saying that He was actually a part of Mary, the Son of Mary. How can that be since Jesus has always been God with no beginning and Mary was a mere human being.
---Helen_5378 on 10/1/06


2/...Jesus was fully God and fully man. If Mary's egg had been used, which does not make any sense because in that case whose sperm was used???, then Jesus would have had the sin nature which He did not have.
---Helen_5378 on 10/1/06


Bruce5656 - The problem with what you are saying is this -- Jesus already was!! Jesus was the Son of God and had been without beginning or end. Now, Jesus Who already was had to take on human flesh in Mary's womb. That is the greatest miracle of all time. I believe that when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary that Jesus was literally placed into her womb and became flesh! ("The Word became flesh").
---Helen_5378 on 10/1/06


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Bruce5656 - Mary conceived when the Holy Spirit overshadowed her and placed Jesus into her womb.
---Helen_5378 on 10/1/06


Meeeeeeoooooooowwwww!!!
---Laura on 10/1/06


"See how Eve's ear inclines and hearkens to the voice of the deceiver when he hisses deceit to her. But come and see the Watcher [Gabriel] instilling salvation into Mary's ear and removing the insinuation of the serpent from her and consoling her. Instead of this virgin [Eve] another was chosen: truth was spoken to her in her ear from the Most High. By the door which death entered [the ear], by it entered life and loosened the great bond which the evil one had bound there" Jacob of Serug
---Tina5349 on 10/1/06


PART TWO:
This being the case, it was necessary for Jesus to be born of a virgin if
a. a virgin would conceive Isa 7:14
b. he were to be a sinless man (not like a man but a man)
c. Jesus were to be truly representative of the human race Rom 1:3,
d. the second Adam I Cor 15:14
e. the Son of Man John 8:28
f. the Substitutionary Sacrifice Hebrews 2:9 etc.
---Bruce5656 on 10/1/06


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PART ONE:
Helen,
You have left some critical questions unanswered.
a. If Jesus did not need to be fully human (concieved and born by Mary) then why the virgin birth at all? Why not just appear on the earth as a man? He could have come as a baby and been "discovered" by Mary like the Pharao's daughter found Moses in the bullrushes. He would have been sinless then too.
b. If she were a surrogate, in what sense of the word can we say she "concieved"?
---Bruce5656 on 10/1/06


PART TWO:

Compare your surogate theory to this verse:
Romans 1:3, "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;"
---Bruce5656 on 10/1/06


Helen ... Your insistence that Jesus' physical body was somehow inserted into Mary's womb denies the Bible's account that she conceived Him.
Surrogates do not conceive, as many have already pointed out to you.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/1/06


Augusta ... You keep quoting people form the fourth century onwards, who made Maty into an ever-sinless ever-virgin. There is nothing in the Bible to justify making her anything but a normal human being, who was granted the privilege of being the mother of the earthly body of Christ.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 10/1/06


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Augusta - Mary was married to a man whose name was Joseph. And guess what? Like all married couples they made love!!! And guess what? As soon as that happened, Mary, like all women, was no longer a virgin!!! How about that!!! Mary and Joseph had children of their own too!!!
---Helen_5378 on 9/30/06


Augusta - ("Most of these men were taught by the apostles themselves.."). How did they manage that? Did the apostles live to be several hundred years old? Or did they teach them from the grave?
---Helen_5378 on 9/30/06


Augusta - What you quote is a big bunch of baloney from a bunch of men who had absolutely no idea what they were talking about."
Just because you don't like what they wrote doesn't make them "wrong" and YOU right. LOL
Most of these men were taught by the apostles themselves, or others who were taught by them. They devoted their entire lives to Christ and the study of God's word.
---augua9846 on 9/30/06


.Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/30/06


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Genesis 17:5
Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.. And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

*Do you know why God changed their names and added the AH ?
---kathr4453 on 9/30/06


Galatians 3:7-15
They which are of faith, are the children of Abraham. The scripture, foreseeing God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
---kathr4453 on 9/30/06


Now we come to the children:
Galatians 3:7-15
They which are of faith, are the children of Abraham. The scripture, foreseeing God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
---kathr4453 on 9/30/06


Helen::your claim that Jesus was & is,God, is true.what you do not seem to understand is that Jesus while being God had the ability to become Man as God.So as God if He was sinless as man He must be SINLESS too. The prophesy was fulfilled when the Angel declared& her acceptance "Be it done onto me according to THE WORD (GOD)"This is when,SHE CONCEIVED,she was pure "the woman" in Genesis3;15,as declared by God the Father.He (JESUS) had NO sin Nature.
---Emcee on 9/29/06


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Augusta - What you quote is a big bunch of baloney from a bunch of men who had absolutely no idea what they were talking about. What they said did not even in the slightest way line up with God's Word. To say Mary was sinless is making her out to be God for God is the only One Who is without sin. IDOLATRY.
---Helen_5378 on 9/29/06


Correction. Isaiah 51: 1&2
1Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
2Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
---kathr4453 on 9/29/06


Yes! Israel. *Isaiah 53:1&2
Father = Mastermind
Son = Spoke it into existance=Word...
Holy Spirit = Through the power of the Holy Spirit
---kathr4453 on 9/29/06


"Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin." Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).
"A virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns." Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily VI:11(ante A.D. 446).
cont..
---augua9846 on 9/29/06


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*Helen: but without Mary's egg for then He would have had at least half a sin nature.*
No, because Mary was without the stain of original sin.
"This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one." Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).
"Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother." Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).

cont
---augua9846 on 9/29/06


2/... If Jesus had the sin nature then He would have sinned at least as a little child. All children sin, it is natural to them. However, Jesus never did.
---Helen_5378 on 9/28/06


Bruce5656 - I do not agree with what you say. Jesus was totally sinless, that is why the virgin birth - that birth was pure and untainted. The Word became flesh -- that is exactly what happened - Jesus simply took on human flesh, but without Mary's egg for then He would have had at least half a sin nature. If her egg was used Jesus would have been tainted.
---Helen_5378 on 9/28/06


To understand your own doubt You must understand & grasp the meaning of the word INCARNATION.Then proceed from thereHave a fixation of that word in your mind.
---Emcee on 9/28/06


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I agree with Bruce.
---augua9846 on 9/28/06


When God said to the children of Israel in Jeremiah: 3:14, "Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you:" he was talking to Isreal then and his Bride (The Church)now.
---Lathan on 9/28/06


PART ONE;
Helen,
To address your question further; the eternal pre-incarnate Jesus was not in bodily form. God does not have a body, He is spirit.

We are told that God became flesh. I Tim 3:16 Not like flesh but flesh. In the OT, God appeared to men like Abram in the form of a man (we call these pre-incarnate manifestations theophonies).
---Bruce5656 on 9/28/06


PART TWO;
He was born a man (fully man) so he could be the second Adam - representative of the human race. I Cor 15:45

If he did not need to be born of Mary's flesh and blood to be a man, there is no need for the virgin birth. That is why I mentioned that he could have just appeared here like he did to Abram etc.
---Bruce5656 on 9/28/06


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Helen,
If you are saying that Jesus was placed in Mary's womb as a complete fetus and that he was not there as the result of one of her own eggs being fertilized then;

a. What was the point of the virgin birth? Why did he not just appear on the scene as a baby, adolescent or even adult. After all, God had appeared as an adult male at various times in the OT.
and
b. In what sense of the word could we say that Mary conceived if she was just a surrogate?
---Bruce5656 on 9/28/06


Moderator - You word it very well indeed. For those who are so adamant that Jesus is the flesh of Mary, just how could that be? Jesus has been Jesus forever without beginning and without end and always has been God. Mary was a human being. So, based on those facts, just how did Jesus get into Mary's womb?
---Helen_5378 on 9/28/06


Helen, I read and reread your post and I honestly don't understand what you mean by the question. I'm sure it's ME and not you, but I just don't get it. Maybe the mods can help me out.

Mods (or anyone else), if you know what Helen is asking can you explain it to me?

Moderator: I think Helen is questioning how Jesus could have been part of Mary since he has been around since the beginning. Am I right Helen?
---augua9846 on 9/28/06


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