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What Is A Willful Sin

Are there two types of sin referred to in the Bible - some willful and some accidental or habitual? Compare I John 3:4-10 and Romans 7:7-25. Are John and Paul in disagreement?

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Html commands have become a matter of routine, Mrs. Morgan.
More is more, not better or more meaningful.
Reply hint #3
Do not use all Capital letters which includes bold lettering and all of the other neon lights. It's difficult to sift through.
---Davis on 7/30/07

Matthew, Jesus turned the other cheek. He is my righteousness. Everything He did and everything He is is accounted to me by faith. It isn't a rule to me. It is a joint-union relationship that comes out of knowing Him intimately apart from rules. If I know who He is and then know who I am in Him, I don't need a rule to live by.
---Linda on 7/30/07

Contrary to popular opinion, when we open our Bibles we are, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to be looking for and seeing Jesus, not a list of rules to keep.
---Linda on 7/30/07

Linda, one of Jesus' commandments were "Turn the other cheek" You can't find that in the old law. It's a new commandment which fulfills the old law commandment"Eye for an eye" in love. That becomes a pattern in many of Jesus' new commandments. Many of His commandments are just that new, and can't be found anywhere in the old law. DO you know what that means Linda?
---Matthew_from_LA on 7/30/07

(John 2:24),

God knows what is in man. The Pharisees, had bad hearts/empty works, were not of God. The difference between a true child of God & a Pharisees type Christian is that a true child of God don't have a bad heart & dead works (Matthew 5:8). God made this very clear in His Word...Fruits speak volumes. (Matthew 7:18-23)(Matthew 15:10-14)(Matthew 23:23-28).
---Mrs._Morgan on 7/30/07

You know the truth.
Very few in this blog understand who they are in Christ. They live in untruth.
God bless
---duane on 7/30/07

Matthew, you sound a lot like the Pharisees who were always trying to find something to accuse Jesus of so they could kill Him.

The law works wrath...
No flesh is justified by the law...
Where there is no law, there is no transgression (remember the blessing David spoke regarding the man whose sins are not imputed to him)...

Christianity was not added to the law. The law was added that the offense may abound.
---Linda on 7/29/07

>Under the law, sin has dominion....
Sin is aroused by the law...
The law causes the motions of sin....
The strength of sin is the law....
For without the law, sin was dead....
When the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.....
The law is not made for a righteous man but for the ungodly and the sinner....
---Linda on 7/29/07

*Faith, that was an excellent statement. Relationship is by birth, not by rules.*

When you were born Linda did your parents give you rules or did they just let you do whatever you want? My question to you is what is better having rules or having no rules? Did Jesus give us commandments? Or they optional? If they are then why are they commandments(which are orders). Why are we servants of a Lord? Lord means Master you know.
---Matthew_from_LA on 7/29/07

" Now you show me one who claims to be saved and has to look at the ten commandments to know how to live, and I will show you an unsaved religious person."

Faith, that was an excellent statement. Relationship is by birth, not by rules.
---Linda on 7/28/07

It was you who first spoke of fairness. It was your statement "seems a bit more fair and just to me" made earlier. Forgive me, as I am not very good at typing answers in 85 words or less, and find it very difficult to copy and paste and continue. Also, the problem with blogging is that you cannot see a person face to face-which will tell you the demeanor. However, as some of your wording goes- I seem to have upset you. Which is not my intention.
---faith on 7/28/07

You have given me several scriptures to review, and I will read them in their proper context before responding. I'm sorry if my "red flags" statement offended you. It was not intended to attack you personally. I have heard many misuse the word of God for their own agenda, and it is one of my pet peaves. And usually, the earmarks of misuse is any statement that inserts or implies something into the Bible.
---faith on 7/28/07

I agree with you on a few things that you have said, but not everything. However, I will not mock you with your own quotes when I disagree with you. Debating can be good. I feel that Christians CAN learn alot from each other (iron sharpens iron) but I do not wish to go any further with you if I am upsetting you. And it seems that I upset you from the first post. Who knows, perhaps I will read the scriptures you cited and come back and agree completely with you.
---faith on 7/28/07

(Nana con't) Many laws spoken in the New Testiment pertained to the law of those days Hebrew, Roman, Greek, etc. And to break the law of the land was considered to be a sin against the government/ruler of the land. Not necessarily one against God or the Brother. That is why the "heart" law is so important. Land laws change, God's doesn't. I find it more useful to look at scripture in it's proper context before using for life application. Again, sorry if my disagreeing with you upsets you.
---faith on 7/28/07

Willful sin is when one knowingly defies God/His Truth, (Hebrews 10:26,27) explains this. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 7/27/07

Before Salvation was available-10 commandments were rules to go by. The saved person does not have to look at rules to remind them how to behave. It is written on their heart. Now, once again, please read carefully Hebrews 8:6-13. There is no special interpretation there, no secrets, no "hidden meanings." It is very clear.
---faith on 7/27/07

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Paul, a messenger of Christ, tells the Hebrew people-the original "keepers of the law"- that the law is of no more use to them once they have accepted that through Jesus blood they were no longer condemned by the law. Jesus brought a more excellent way, and the old is NO GOOD. We- who have been sanctified by the blood of Jesus- do not need the "keeping of the law" to save us. However, the unsaved need the law, otherwise, they (who are not born again) would not understand what sin is.
---faith on 7/27/07

True Christians carry the Love of God by means of the Holy Spirit inside them. Now if we, who are Sons and Daughters of God, carry HIS Spirit within us, why do we have to be reminded by laws of how to behave ourselves? I appreciate the old covenant very much. Without it, I would not know what I should be thankful for. I'm sorry for the lengthy reply, I just hate to leave anything out, I could go on and on about what Jesus saved me from.
---faith on 7/27/07

"How could it possibly be "fair" in God's eyes that you are
considered a sinner because of someone ELSE's actions? That
makes NO sense to me. Jesus was not speaking of God's law here,
rather, the law of the land.
---faith on 7/26/07"
---Nana on 7/27/07

How is it possible to become holy or
unholy (unclean) on account of another? Paul says in I Cor 7:14:
"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the
unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your
children unclean, but now are they holy." I then ask, What does
a baby or a child 'know' about either the 'law of the land' or the
'law of the heart' that would make him unholy? Holy on account
of another? See what flags come up on that one.
---Nana on 7/27/07

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We may also say that it is not 'fair' that if I sin against my fellow
man I am also sinning against God and Christ. Fair or not, that is
just the way it is! Red flags? One of those went up in me with
your original comment: "How can you possibly sin "unwillingly"?
Can someone else make you sin against your own will. The devil
made me do it???
---faith on 7/17/07"
---Nana on 7/27/07

In that statement you miss the point that not all your brothers and
sisters are as strong and knowledgeable as you perhaps.
I Cor 8:9: "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours
become a stumblingblock to them that are weak." And following
that in I Cor 8:11: "And through thy knowledge shall the weak
brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12: But when ye sin so
against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin
against Christ."
---Nana on 7/27/07

Where there is a law there is also a judge to enforce it in passing
judgement. Does the 'law of the heart' lack a judge in the here and
the after? I think not. Matthew 25:31: "When the Son of man shall
come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit
upon the throne of his glory: "... What makes a "goat" if not sin?
---Nana on 7/27/07

Robin said>>When you say Jesus didn't promote the law, what exactly do you mean? Jesus kept the law perfectly. Seems He thought it was pretty important.<<
Of course it was important. It was the standard from the Old Covenant that was given to measure sins. Jesus was speaking to the very people that those laws were given directly to. They measured each other constantly by those laws. They even measured Jesus with them.
---faith on 7/27/07

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Remember when they accused Him of blasphemy so many times? How they told Him that He was sinning because He healed someone on the Sabbath? Jesus reminded them of their sins by pointing out the laws to them. It was a preperation for their acceptance of His purpose. If there were no laws, there would've been no sins, hence, no reason for Him to come. Honestly, who else but Jesus ever kept the law? Who before Him, who after Him? That's quite a statement that He made to us.
---faith on 7/27/07

He was telling us that it is impossible for us to keep the law perfectly. If we could, why would we have ever needed Him? The only law associated with the New Covenant is the Law of God's Grace. And that law tells us that even though we are imperfect, we are still acceptable to God through His Son, and by NO other way. That is what Jesus came to tell us. He never broke the law, therefore He was the sinless sacrifice for OUR unlawful transgressions.
---faith on 7/27/07

If Jesus was promoting the Law as the way to Heaven, then His death, burial, and resurrection would have been a useless event. We would still be trying to bypass His reason for coming, as many still do, and just go on trying to live by the letter of the law written on stone. Old covenant laws were "commandments." Now you show me one who claims to be saved and has to look at the ten commandments to know how to live, and I will show you an unsaved religious person.
---faith on 7/27/07

faith on 7/26/07 "I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with me on. Jesus did not promote the old covenant, He fulfilled it."

Many who claim to be under the new covenant think that God's law can be disregarded. But if God says that the new covenant involves writing His law in our minds and on our hearts, obviously, we won't be disregarding it.
When you say Jesus didn't promote the law, what exactly do you mean? Jesus kept the law perfectly. Seems He thought it was pretty important.
---Robin on 7/26/07

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>>I take it upon myself to believe that the same
rule applies to the woman that puts away her husband also.<<
Nana, This statement was what my response was referring to. Red flags appear for me when I hear things like that said. Too many times people use implication where the bible is concerned- and that causes much confusion. Yes, it was a "man's" world at the time of these laws. That is my point.
---faith on 7/26/07

Sin was considered a "transgression of the law" in those days. Sin is now "anything that is not of faith." Sin is also "knowing to do good and doing it not." You speak of the "fairness" of these laws. How could it possibly be "fair" in God's eyes that you are considered a sinner because of someone ELSE's actions? That makes NO sense to me. Jesus was not speaking of God's law here, rather, the law of the land.
---faith on 7/26/07

Hi Robin,
Thanks for bringing the New Covenant into the subject. Yes, I am very aware of the New Covenant, as it is what I am living under. Yes, Jesus FULFILLED the old covenant. I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with me on. Jesus did not promote the old covenant, He fulfilled it.
---faith on 7/26/07

Please go to the 6th verse in Hebrews 8 and read through the end of the chapter. Actually, there is MUCH more in the book of Hebrews pertaining to the old covenant being passed away, because Jesus showed a more excellent way. Paul calls the old covenant obsolete, decayed, old, and says it is ready to vanish away in the 8:13. For born-again Christians, those commandments given by Moses were replaced by Jesus with the two that He gave to us. Love God, Love your Brother(s).
---faith on 7/26/07

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And those two commandements not only take care of the ten commandments, but also go beyond to other morally incorrect actions as well. Also, when we become saved, those two commandments which are greater than the TEN are written on our hearts rather than in stone. That is fulfillment. That is the better way. LOVE rather than FEAR.
---faith on 7/26/07

Jody you don't have to ask for forgiveness when you are tempted. Many blur the line between(not you clearly, thank goodness) temptation and sin and will say I have sinnned when any random evil thought pops in their brain. Fight the thought and say no to it and you have not sinned. There is no such thing as automatic sin. Sin is a choice of the heart and those random evil thoughts that pop in our head are temptation. Don't embrace them.
---Matthew_from_LA on 7/25/07

1)We obey or we disobey God. What ever is not of faith is sin.Paul points out his liberty that for him"all things are allowed but not all things are profitable" He is not speaking of the laws of Moses but he is speaking of other laws of the Jews.Our flesh will always be at war with the basic laws of Moses as these are at the root of our evil nature.As we mature in the Lord, it seems to become easier to contend with the flesh. Yet we need to be alert, as just as we think we'stand'we may'fall'.
---jody on 7/25/07

2) With this in mind that he who walks in righteousness and cannot sin is he who has been gifted in and exercises faith and love. Christs seed is in him.However,there is a continual war in our memebers due to our evil nature 1Jn1:8.There is no contridiction. Thanks be to Jesus that we can ask for forgiveness 1Jn1:9. These are separate concepts. Hope it helps.
---jody on 7/25/07

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3)I have prayed many times about my personal thorns and believe that when my mind entertains a sinful thought and my person fights it and does not complete or act upon the thought,that God has honored the struggle and final result. I still ask forgiveness for the thought, but thank God that I did not act upon it. I believe there is a large difference between thought and action and God does honor our battle of thought vs action. For me the thoughts have lessened since the action has come under control.
---jody on 7/25/07

THE word "willful" is self-explanatory.
---Pat on 7/25/07

What I took upon myself, in a moment, was to imagine it being
the same sin if a woman put away her husband. Even I, after I
wrote my last repply wondered if in those days from Jesus on
if women could possibly put away their husbands. After all, it
seems that before Jesus, it used to be a Mans World...
---Nana on 7/25/07

Here is stated specifically for a woman:
Mark 10:12: "And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be
married to another, she committeth adultery." In Mark, however,
there is no implication that the one putting away makes the other
an adulterer. Seems a bit more fair and just to me. Well faith,
there appears to not be anything "gender specific" about that
---Nana on 7/25/07

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Keeping God's law was the criterion by which righteousness was measured in old testament times. [Deut. 6:1-3], But the law had only succeeded in stimulating people to great sin.>> Here is an excellent point, Humanity's sinful nature has not been changed by the law. [Why Jesus came]. Paul gives his own personal testimony to illustrate the stubborness of man's sinful nature. In his own strength, he was unable to overcome the sins of the flesh. Cont.
---catherine on 7/24/07

Cont. 2 The harder he tried to keep the law, the lower his tendency to sin dragged him down. Romans 7:7-25>>>>Now First John. John declares that true believers will not continue in a habitual state of sin. God's love guides believers to recognize their sins as soon as they are committed and to seek His forgiveness day by day.>>> Were Paul and John in disgreement? What do you think? I will tell you what I know. The answer is >>>no.>>>The end.
---catherine on 7/24/07

faith on 7/24/07 said:
He didn't come to promote the old Hebrew law. He came to show them a better way.

Jesus came to fulfill the law (Matthew 5:17,18) Do you know what the new covenant is? Hebrew 8:10 tells us: "For this is the covenant that I will make... after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts...
---Robin on 7/24/07

As far as Jesus' FINISHED work on the cross, yes, His ministry is included. However, due to bad teaching, many times Christians have a false sense of just what His ministry was all about. He didn't come to promote the old Hebrew law. He came to show them a better way.
---faith on 7/24/07

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Nana, If there were nothing to save us from sin, then sin would be irrelevant. I never said that you "erase" history. And unlike you, I do not "take it upon myself" to beleive that the same thing applied in those days to men as they did women. The fact is: They did not. Laws were gender specific. To break the any of the levitical laws were sins before Jesus fulfilled the old covenant. Do you believe that those should be kept as well?
---faith on 7/24/07

This blog is about sin and adultery is a sin.
Whatever you may consider "valid" or "invalid", must be
in accordance with what Jesus taught. In that verse Jesus
taught that contrary to the then popular view, divorce
except for reason of fornication makes the man commit
the sin of adultery and it also makes the rejected wife also
to commit adultery against her will. Once again, the blog is
about "sin", not salvation, Hell, faith or grace.
---Nana on 7/20/07

From those days to ours much has changed... Then, women
used to get stoned and men put away their wives. These
days there are no stonings... but women put away their
husbands also. I take it upon myself to believe that the same
rule applies to the woman that puts away her husband also. Law
or no Law, sin is the same as it always has been and God is
against it.
---Nana on 7/20/07

Since you brought to light "finished work on the cross" I ask
if the Cross itself is the "work" or Jesus's Ministry and the Cross
are the work? If you erase everything prior to the Cross, then
there is nothing to be learned from the Ministry of Jesus on
this earth! Might as well then, John would had announced a date
at the earliest for the sacrifice of a Perfect Lamb period! Why
three years after?
---Nana on 7/20/07

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Nana and OK: Jesus, in both of these scriptures (OK didn't cite) is referring to the Old Law.- which Saved are not under. He was speaking of Law, not of Sin. Sin is anything that is not of faith. These examples you have given, because they were old law, they had nothing to do with faith. Therefore are not valid. Law will not get you to Heaven, only the grace of God through faith in His Son Jesus Christ. The only REAL sin that will take you to Hell is the rejection of Jesus' finished work on the cross.
---faith on 7/19/07

Jesus said He who did wrong not knowing the law against it will be beaten with a few (comparatively) stripes and He who knew and still did wrong will be beaten with many stripes. Unwilling sin, doesn't mean it is unwilling. It means it is done out of neglect or unanalized reaction rather than pondered, planned, rebellious, sin done despite the realization of the severity of its evil. We don't always realize the severity of evil of things we do when we do them.
---OK on 7/18/07

Matthew 5:32: "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."
What??? Now I ask, can you possibly sin "unwillingly"?
---Nana on 7/18/07

How can you possibly sin "unwillingly"? Can someone else make you sin against your own will. The devil made me do it???
---faith on 7/17/07

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Sin is sin. Just thank God your set free from sin.
---duane on 6/29/07

1 John 1

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves...

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar...

It's talking about hypocricy. When someone sins and they try to convince themselves they didn't sin. We know that when we sinned we must confess it. Convincing ourselves we didn't sin when we did is very dangerous.
---Matthew on 6/29/07

Great question. John says if you are born again you cannot commit sin. And then he also says if you say you don't sin you are a lyer and the truth isn't in you. Paul acknowledges that he does all kinds of things that are wrong. So what's up? I believe we have to distinguish between our spiritual position of righteousness where God sees us as sinless and doesn't impute our sin, and our practical flesh that does sin because sin is in us physically.
---john on 6/29/07

Willful sin is doing the sin, even though you know that it is wrong and a sin.
---Leslie on 12/31/06

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justification is our nature, the blame game. eve blamed the serpent.adam was really creative He blamed God and the woman.willful sin is when you know but you choose to sin anyway.
---tom2 on 8/29/06

What is willful sin?

Knowing you're married, and you look at someone else....and ACT UPON IT.
Further in James Ch 1, he addresses that too. We are drawn away by "our own" lusts and desires. You can't say that God put that in you to act on. The test of one's faith then would be to resist that temptation, by God's Grace ,in His power, when you humble yourself before Him and say, I have no strength. I need yours. "When I am weak, HE IS STRONG!"
---kathr4453 on 8/11/06

Bruce5656. The verses in Corinthians you are quoting are not about sin, but about trials. James uses the same word in his 1st chapter. Count it all Joy when you fall into various temtations. God allows us to fall into various trials, some we make for ourselves and some are God's plan. We grow and are exercised by these. We are not to worry that the world has come to an end, because when the Lord has accomplished what He planned, he will bring us through. This also strengthens our faith.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/06

Even the most mature Christians God is putting through the fire, turning up the heat, to bring those impurities out of us we had no idea was even sin. God's holiness is so bright, it blinded Paul. Can any of us stand today under that scrutiny, and not fall on our face as Job, and say, I loath myself. I know there are several 30 day recipes for holiness (perfectness). Most use leaven in those recipes. BEWARE!!
---kathr4453 on 8/11/06

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Bruce5656. #2. Paul in Philippians 3 tells us that he was a Pharisee of Pharisees, as pertaining to the law, blameless. I don't think those "precondition" have the experience Paul had in the end of Romans 7. If they did, they would all be saying, "I praise God Through Jesus Christ". If you go on to Chapter 10, you will see they missed it. They didn't struggle one bit with their self righteousness.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/06

Bruce5656. I disagree. Paul is not discribing his pre condition. He is letting us know, we are not instantly perfect when we come to Christ. Even a baby has to learn to walk, and grows up into a man who can run! If you have never experienced the struggle between the old and the new, you may want to check to see if you really have been Born again. We now carry within us 2 natures. The New learns to have victory over the old. Only through Christ in us, as He grows and is being formed in us.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/06

There is really no difference in what these men are stating. Paul is stating that if it weren't for the law, we wouldn't be even aware of our sin. John is stating the same thing. To say willful sin and "accidental" sin is different is splitting hairs, concerning sin. To God, sin is sin regardless of how it came about.
---wivv on 8/11/06

What is your scriptural support for "And the others that the believer commits in body only, which are not imputed because of righteousness."?
---Bruce5656 on 8/11/06

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There are 2 types of sin; sins of ommission and sins of commission. If you sin you did it willfully if you were conscious.You had the thought 1st and acted on that thought. Lust conceives sin conceives death. Also if you were walking down the street and the Holy Spirit moved you to give a homeless one 25 cents and you kept walking, SEE?
---rober9463 on 8/11/06

melissa,paul writes about being of 2 minds.renewing your mind.for a christian the battle is in the mind. for we wage war not against flesh but spirits in high places.a spirit filled mind is the answer.THINK GOD his ways his answers to lifes questions, and circumstances.only then can you be blameless in the sight of god thru jesus.
---tom2 on 8/9/06

The sin Paul speaks of in Romans is
a. Not accidental
b. He is describing his pre-converted condition. Notice vv 24,25

There is no such thing as accidental sin. 1 Corinthians 10:13, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
---Bruce5656 on 8/9/06

Paul doesn't want to sin because he is born again and sin becomes a problem. The Spirit in Paul doesn't allow him to want to sin. I think there are 2 types of sin. One that the unbeliever commits in body and spirit, which will be imputed to him. And the others that the believer commits in body only, which are not imputed because of righteousness. John and Paul are not disagreeing, one is talking about the spiritual position and the other the practical in the flesh.
---john on 8/9/06

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