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Kissing In Courtship Good

When a brother and a sister (in Christ) are in courtship, how far should they go regarding kissing? Or they should not kiss at all? And after how long should they marry?

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 ---Re on 8/10/06
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Biblically, they should have no sexual contact whatsoever until they are married. So, other than kissing as you would your biological brother or sister, I would suggest not kissing at all until the wedding day. As to getting married - if young I suggest 6 mos to 1 year. If older, 30+, quicker might be better - depending if they want children.
---daphn8897 on 10/31/08

kissing and cuddling just gets the fires a burning. Jesus said if look w/ lust ,, that's adultery. dangerous ground
---r.w. on 9/23/06

Daphne ... I'm sorry I misunderstood what you meant by "Kissing and cuddling is a part of sex... it sets the stage and stirs emotional and physical desires that lead up to sex"
But the point of my intervention this time was not to oppose your view, but show Angea that if I have a bias, it is for her, and yet I still feel she was out order in what she said about people referencing the book.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/18/06

If you wish, you are certainly free to not accept my recommendation. What is it that upset you so?
Secondly, what would motivate you to make a false statement like you did about people referencing the book in a negative way?
---Bruce5656 on 8/17/06

This is really troubling for two reasons.
1. It is not true (please feel free to prove me wrong) and therefore a lie. What were you thinking?? Why would you say that?
2. I suspect you have no idea as to what the book is about and you have judged it falsely. As daphn8897 has noted, it is in fact very biblically accurate.
---Bruce5656 on 8/17/06

Alan, I do not think that kissing and cuddling "will" lead to fornication. I think it can stir up stuff that should wait for the wedding night. And, because so many lack self control or wisdom, I think it better to teach our young ladies and young men that it is far better to refrain and avoid the temptation, than to walk as close to the line of sin as possible... without doing so. We should purpose to give no room to the flesh.
---daphn8897 on 8/17/06

Angea ..You will have seen my reply on the question, and that I think that kissing & cuddling does not necessarily lead, as some here insist it will, to fornication. So on the main question I agree with your view.
But I have to agree with Bruce him, I have not seen anyone here make any reference to that book, either to agree or disagree specifically with any points it makes, nor even to comment on the book.
I fear you have got too angry because some here do not agree with what you believe
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/17/06

angea, Your response is not based on what you yourself know. I've read the book - it is biblically accurate. So, if folks don't agree with it... then they don't agree with the Bible, and that's on them - and so will be the eternal consequences of their counsel. Yes, we walk in grace... but we aren't to sin just so grace may abound... God forbid.
---daphn8897 on 8/17/06

You not only disrespected my feelings,thoughts and what i believed,you also hurt my feelings by your comments.I am sorry if i hurt your feelings.I didn't judge you,so don't judge me for what i believe.When you post or ask a question on here,you are going to get answers that people will either agree or disagree with you on.But it doesn't necessarily mean that either one is wrong.This is my final post on this subject.
---angea on 8/16/06

"I have seen several people on these blogs,say that some of the stuff in that book wasn't right or true."
I have been following these blogs for a number of years now and have yet to see anyone reference the book other than the few times I have recomended someone to read it.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to tell me some of the things in the book that "isn't true."
How about just one?
---Bruce5656 on 8/16/06

So please,if you are going to continue,putting mine down,and saying i am wrong,and judging my family,friends,and church and me for believing that,don't say anything else to me about it.I still don't agree with but i am going to let it go and go on with my life.And so should you.
---angea on 8/16/06

We are not to judge this person or ourselves on what to do.That is God's job.You said how you felt and what you thought,and so did i,but our thoughts don't really count.It is the Lords.Everyone should be asking and seeking the Lord on this,and not judging one another.If you can't respect me for mine,and say something nice and respectful,then do not answer my post,unless you can be understanding and respect my thoughts.
---angea on 8/16/06

You believe the way you want,but let everyone believe what they want too.You stated how you felt about it,so why can't i.Maybe both ways are right.Maybe the ones that can't control themselves shouldn't do it,but the ones that can control themselves,they can.God knows our hearts,what we can handle,and what will tempt us,and how well we can control ourselves.
---angea on 8/16/06

I have seen several people on these blogs,say that some of the stuff in that book wasn't right or true.And besides that i have seen other blogs by you two that i don't agree with either,but i don't say a word to either of you about it.So you know what you two can believe and say what you want on this subject.But i am entitled to mine and so is everyone else.And that means they may not agree with you either.So are you saying they all are wrong to?
---angea on 8/16/06

That if he showed her that it was wrong then don't do it,and if he showed that it was ok,then that it was fine.Neither one of you did that.I told her to pray and seek the Lord.If you two were in the word as you said you were you would have done the same.Instead of constantly answering me and putting what i feel and think it right down.You two should have not only stated how you felt about it,but told her to pray and seek the Lord on it.You two didn't do that.
---angea on 8/16/06

So did you daphne,and alot of people don't agree with you either.The reason he doesn't agree with it,is because he read it,and found stuff that wasn't true.His parents are good godly christian people and raised him right.And bruce no one is doing my thinking for me.You both stated how you felt about it,and what you thought was right.All i did was the same as you two did,except i told her to pray and seek the Lord on it first.
---angea on 8/16/06

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angea, Your sister's husband is wrong. The book was written by a man who is a pastor, and who is now the senior pastor of a marvelous church in Gaithersburg, VA. If you want to justify behavior that is by biblical standards inappropriate, then that is on you. And it isn't a matter of "leaving you alone"'ve posted in a public format, so you should expect to be responded to - even if folks don't agree with you.
---daphn8897 on 8/16/06

It is interesting that you have so many other people doing your thinking for you.
---Bruce5656 on 8/16/06

Bruce,my sister's husband who is planning to be a pastor or youth pastor,says that book isn't good.Daphne,wrong. I have seen it and my sister's husband and his family,think the same me ,my family and church do.So i know what is right.I am not saying anymore on this subject. So you leave me alone,cause i know what i believe is right.And that is all that matters.
---angea on 8/16/06

Daphne ... Just a man meeting a woman sets the scene for fornication ... if they elect to go that way. Let's ban that as well.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/16/06

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To fully understand anyones written words including the Bible it is wise (and good Biblical exegesis) to go back to the time and the peoples customs that it was written to. 2000 years ago unmarried men/women - boys/girls did not date. Were seldom ever alone together. The early church was quite practical about all this. You can read the Early Church Fathers historical collection for a better historical understanding of this subject. Hope this helps.
---robert on 8/16/06

Kissing in Court or a Ship is great if you are married. It's really fun in a boat too but not after eating garlic.
---Elder on 8/16/06

This is one of those things that you did not ask for but will do you a world of good. If you take my advice you will not regret it, if you do not, you may very well live to regret it.

Here it is. Get your self a copy of Josh Haris' book Boy Meets Girl. Read it prayerfuly. Then choose for your self what standard you will hold to.
---Bruce5656 on 8/16/06

angea, I seriously doubt your pastor would approve of "kissing and cuddling" outside of marriage. I am concerned that you are justifying something you are already doing and feel guilty about, and that your counsel will lead to others sliding down a slippery slope. Please read your KJV again... and again...
---daphn8897 on 8/16/06

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angea, What do you think leads up to sex? And, why stir up those feelings at all? It is foolishness to push the boundary because the KJV doesn't use explicit language.. ie kissing and cuddling. Kissing and cuddling is a part of sex... it sets the stage and stirs emotional and physical desires that lead up to sex. Ergo, part of "fleeing fornication" would be to avoid doing so... Why let the guy even get on base, if you aren't going for the home run? You really shouldn't be in that game at all.
---daphn8897 on 8/16/06

And my pastor won't let women preach,cause that is in the bible.I have asked my mom,people at church,sunday school teachers,and they say that fornication is sex before marriage.It is best to pray and seek the Lord on this.If the Lord shows you that it is wrong,then don't do it.But if he shows that it is ok,that is fine.Just be careful that it doesn't go further than that.You do what the Lord shows and tells you to do and what is ok,and you will do fine.
---angea on 8/15/06

You must have a different bible.In my KJV bible,it says flee fornication,but that means as in sex,after marriage or before marriage.It says nothing about about kissing,cuddling and hold hands as being fornication.And my church and pastor goes by the Bible.And he wouldn't say that it was ok if it wasn't in the Bible.He says he wont marry anyone that has been married before,and he won't let women preach,he won't let girls come in with skimpy cloths on.
---angea on 8/15/06

angea, It isn't just my opinion. Scripture says to "flee fornication," not to get as close to it as you can without crossing the line. Scripture also says to avoid any appearance of evil - if one isn't married, intimate kissing, cuddling, and even hand holding does imply physical intimacy in most cultures. So, with that in mind, why would you think any opinion other than scripture even matters - even if your mom's?
---daphn8897 on 8/15/06

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My sister,mom and even people at my church says that is ok as long as you don't go no farther than that,and don't get caught up in the heat of the moment and let the flesh take over. So yes,re it is ok to do those things.But if you are not sure about it,pray and ask the Lord,he will show you what to do.As for marrying,you pray and ask the Lord and let Him lead you in that on when it is time and when you both are ready to marry.
---angea on 8/14/06

You shouldn't be telling everyone that what you think and feel the Lord shows you on that,is the only right thing and only to do in a courtship and dating.The Lord may not convict them and show them that it is wrong,but instead show them that it is ok to do those things.
The Lord convicts us all with different things.What he convicts you of,he may not convict me of,and what he convicts me of,he may not convict you of.In my relationship with my boyfriend,we kiss,hold hands and cuddle.
---angea on 8/14/06

Daphne,the Lord may show you not to do that,but He may show someone else that it is ok for them to do those things,like kissing,cuddling and holding hands.He knows our hearts and what we can and can handle or control,or tempted by that we can't control.
---angea on 8/14/06

My sister and her husband did and it worked fine.My mom says kissing,cuddling and holding hands is good,and that nothing is wrong with that,as long as you be careful on not letting it go farther than that.Pray about it,and if you feel that it is wrong for you to do those things then don't do it.
---angea on 8/14/06

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Kissing,cuddling,and holding hands are fine,just as long as you don't let it go too far.As for how long to date before marriage,that depends on the Lord.Pray and seek the Lord,the Lord will let you know when.I have been with my boyfriend almost 3 years now,and we have been talking about getting married for the last two years.But he wants to get things prepared and ready before we do.Daphne,there alot of people that can control themselves and do fine on just kissing,cuddling and holding hands.
---angea on 8/14/06

Alan, I watched several couples in my family of churches even restrain through their engagement - not wanting to, in a moment, cross a line that cannot be uncrossed. Engagement is the promise of, but not yet marriage. I especially appreciate the guys I know who've chosen to guard their future wives hearts, rather than push the boundary as far as they could... so to speak. The women in these relationships have shared that they felt treasured and protected through the process.
---daphn8897 on 8/14/06

Daphne ... Yes I agree, but I was thinking of once yuo are engaged.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/14/06

As far as how long to date before getting married, the best answer is this: seek God's will in your relationship and let Him lead. No one can tell you how long is "right".... only God can.
---Shelly on 8/14/06

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Alan, Also, I think those with self control are in the minority - as evidenced by the high level of sexual sin even in the Church. Being a bit "puritanical" in this instance is certainly not a bad thing. Why stir up feelings and "chemistry" that, if we're walking in purity, can go nowhere? I care far too much about the single men in my church not to guard their hearts in this area.
---daphn8897 on 8/14/06

Alan, I agree, some have more self-control than others - but why tempt? If we treat one another as brother and sister (at least physically) then we don't take the chance to defraud. Would you not want your future wife to be treated honorably by whom she may be "dating" now? Also, would not "waiting" on every physical level make the wedding night that much more special? I just don't believe that we have to cave to "cultural norm" in this.
---daphn8897 on 8/14/06

I have been courting someone for 4 years. We do not hold hands much less kiss. "Courtship" is when you are spending time together to decide if you want to marry. Growing and nurturing your friendship. A succesful courtship has one of two endings. You remain good friends and that is all, or you decide to get engaged.

Using that defination of courtship, there is no room for physical contact of the nature being discussed here.
---Bruce5656 on 8/14/06

People who are not married yet should give a quick peck, because those long one's are asking for trouble, we have to let the Holy Ghost lead about this. Those long lingering kisses are just plain dangerous, when you aren't married. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

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Daphne ... why do yuo insist that kissing and cuddling "are considered foreplay"? Considered by whom?
Not everyone is unable to control themselves.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/14/06

Rebecca, You assume that self control means sour grapes. Since it is a fruit of the Spirit, it brings about righteousness, peace, and joy. So, yes - NOT kissing or cuddling is far more glorifying to God - especially since both can be and are considered "foreplay". The flesh can wait until they're married. If Jesus is really first in their lives, it is worth the effort. We should be very different from the culture - and if you equate that with "fuddy dutty"... oh well...
---daphn8897 on 8/14/06

Daphne: you misunderstood fornacation. So a couple that are getting married soon, shouldn't hold hands, kiss eachother, or show affection to one another? they should be like ole fuddy duttys with a look on their face like they was eating sour grapes?
---Rebecca_D on 8/13/06

Number of days or months is not the issue. How well do you truly know each other? Get past the infatuation stage, get to know each other's good and, especially, bad points, go through a difficult time together, be realistic about differences, it's not about so-called "love" or "attraction", it's about living with that person for the rest of your life, responsibilities, finances, raising children, tough times. I speak from my personal experience and that of others who married too soon.
---marya4598 on 8/11/06

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Rebecca, Since scripture tells us to flee fonication, why would a christian, not-yet-married couple want to do anything that might cause each other to stumble? Your logic and attitude are culturally based and not scriptural.
---daphn8897 on 8/11/06

In MIKADO, Yum-yum says that flirting is a capital crime. Nanki-poo replies, "Oh, yes. Flirting is indeed capital!"
---Jack on 8/11/06

I don't see a problem if this couple kisses. As long as it doesn't go any further. My husband and I dated almost a year before we got married. But to say how long they should date before they get married, it would be up to them. Some are together for several years. That would be up to these people and their relationship.
---Rebecca_D on 8/10/06

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