Violent Take It By Force
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Before Jesus was glorified, worshippers tried to "force" God's kingdom to 'come to them' by complying with the dictates in their scriptures and "forced" themselves to perform the proper 'gestures' (rituals, rules/ordinances).
The spirit of God cannot really "indwell" if the worshipper must be FORCED to be Godly.
Matthew 11:12
..."take it by force".
John 7:39
"for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified".
Books, etc. do nothing to actually prepare the heart and mind of the worshipper for the kingdom of God.
God's spirit can only "indwell" if we are willing to be like Him (God is LOVE, not faith, not text). |
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---more_excellent_way on 9/25/09 |
"From John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force." Read the scripture in context. John the Baptist was forcibly arrested and suffered the violence of having his head decapitated. Likewise, Jesus was threatened when the crowds tried to 'seize' Him and throw him off a cliff.
Then read what Jesus says about his own generation in the verses that follow.
'Harpazo' almost always has a negative connotation regarding violent or forceful seizure by thieves, robbers or violent men. The only exception is when the saints of God are seized or raptured by the bridegroom. |
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---thomas on 9/25/09 |
Who is suffering violence? Heaven!
Who are the ones taking it? The violent!
Think its a good thing to be violent, forceful, assailants!
I see some here have already justified this.
But when was your lord ever violent?
Some say at the temple, he whipped the people.
Some say the tree, with no fruit!
Some even say, he said pickup a sword!
As you hear, you will see his sword, is his word and only his word!
If you understand this, then you also see his sword has two sides.
Some just know how to teach, this is given to you by God.
Other pickup the word and read, thou shall not sin!
Now they are teachers. Look! God said, with no understanding!
God Bless |
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---TheSeg on 9/11/09 |
Instead of the term "violence" from Greek, a Hebrew equivalent could be "breaking forth." Jesus may be hinting at Micah 2:12-13 which gives us the image of a shepherd leading a noisy flock through a narrow gate to freedom and green pastures. In fact, there is a rabbinic interpretation existing in Christ's time (discovered by David Flusser) that the "Breach-maker" from Micah represents Elijah and the "King" represents the Messiah. The Kingdom of Heaven is breaking forth, and every person in it is breaking forth finding liberty and freedom. Try searching on Avram Yehoshua for fuller explanation or the book "Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus" by David Bivin and Roy Blizzard, Jr. -Shalom! |
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---lennie on 9/10/09 |
Jesus said that because we need to fight the good fight of faith, and not give up. |
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---Betty on 2/20/09 |
How about this on this: Like the violence of an army taking a city by storm. Multitudes are wrought upon by the ministry of John, and became His disciples. And it is placed in this Kingdom that one would think had no right nor title to it, and so seemed to be intruders. When the children of the Kingdom are excluded out of it, do you got it? And many come into it from the East and the West, THEN IT SUFFERS VILOENCE. I am having so much FUN. The publicans and harlots believed John, whom the Scribes and Pharisees rejected, and so went into the Kingdom of God before them. You may this scripture in Matt. 11:12-14. |
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---catherine on 2/20/09 |
Mt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now...
You have to read the verse in context. There's a period of time involved, as can be seen from reading the whole verse.
John was the spirit of Elias. Violence is strength of mind, also. Jesus is stating those who realized that John was greater than the prophets (he prepared the way of the Lord) would know who Jesus was. Jesus is confirming He is the Messiah and all one needed do was "take" the fact and accept Jesus.
Now, since Jesus has poured out His Holy Spirit, it is much easier to "take" the kingdom.
The words "take" and "force" are the Greek word, harpazo - the word used for "rapture". |
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---BruceB on 2/20/09 |
They who would enter into the Kingdom of heaven must strive to enter, that Kingdom suffers a holy violence, we must run, and wrestle, and fight, and be in agony, and all little enough to win such a prize. And to get over such opposition from without and from within. Oh, that we could see a greater number with a holy contention thrusting themselves into it! They who will have an interest in the Great salvation are carried out towards it with a strong desire, will have it upon any terms, and not think them hard, nor quit their hold without a blessing.Note: The Kingdom of heaven was never intended to indulge the ease of Triflers, but to be the REST of them that labour. Another note: John was the BEGINNING of the GOSPEL. |
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---catherine on 2/20/09 |
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This verse refers to the unseen warfare that every Christian must engage in against our three common enemies,the world,the flesh and the devil and the fact that we, oftentimes, have to force ourselves to do what we know is right and pleasing to god.
Doing what we know is right does not always come natural to us,but goes against our fallen human nature. However,if we make the effort to do what we know is well-pleasing to God,we dispose ourselves properly to be able to receive the Grace of God by which we are saved and enabled to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. |
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---Steven on 2/20/09 |
This verse is refering to the fact that the kingdom is always under attack, in the natural and in the spiritual. Those who violently praise, worship and pray will take the heavenly kingdom back and bring it down into manfestation in the earth realm. |
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---Chena on 11/25/08 |
This story, although highly unusual is completely true. While working as a riverboat captain I ha a large sore On my foot. It became infected, and I need to go to the doctor. That night while praying about my foot I became very angry and started to shout at Satan to get out of my body and leave me alone. This was at 12 o'clock at night. At 6 the next morning I got up completely healed! Wild story yet completely true. And I had it least one witness!! |
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---Mima on 4/21/08 |
Scripture is difficult to translate. It seems to speak of the world's opposition to Jesus and the Kingdom of God. Those who are citizens of the Kingdom, on the other hand, are commanded to avoid unnecessary conflict. [Titus 3:2] Violence>>The Arrogant and Wicked are said to be clothed with violence like a garment, which means it is a characteristic of their lives and they practice it shamelessly. |
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---catherine on 4/21/08 |
I think that the word may have also been translated to 'aggressive' which in British English is a negative word but in Japanese English is used to mean 'positive, energetic'. I think that the idea in the original language was that the leaders who will take people out of deception into the Kingdom of God, do not sit and meditate or have mystical experiences all day. They work and pray, and thus are able to lead people into the true Light of God. |
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---frances008 on 4/20/08 |
Thank God for Eloy who posted July of 07. I think his/her response is nearest to the truth. Jesus is NOT talking about followers of Jesus being violent. He's talking about them suffering violence and the violent take it by force, which John the Baptist did NOT. He's contrasting John the Baptist with those that take it by force. Read the verse in context and you will see |
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---Werd on 3/5/08 |
We are to be "violent" in terms of spiritual warfare. It means to bring an abrupt change. We should be fervent in our faith, unafraid of persecution for living as Jesus wants us to live. And to boldly (but respectfully) preach the Gospel to help bring an abrupt change in people's lives by leading them to Christ. |
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---Greyrider on 11/17/07 |
Jesus meant that to keep on the narrow path and gain access to eternal life in heaven, one must be "violent" against temptation and sin and must earnestly seek to live a righteous life. Remembering that God "spits out the luke warm", one must be fervent in their repentance, in their uncompromising faith in Jesus and the Word, and in keeping thier "eyes on the prize" and living as Christ lived. One must boldly witness to the world and be on fire for God! |
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---Christopher on 11/15/07 |
At this point Jesus is making this statement to alert his followers that the Kingdom of Heaven is imperfect because of principalities and rulers of darkness. Satin is constantly roaming about causing discord in the Heavens and in the earth. There is a spiritual war taking place. This is why God says that he will create a new Heaven and Earth that will be perfect because of the violence and suffering of the present ones. |
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---Marcia on 7/8/07 |
Jesus was saying that the people of God suffer damage, as John Baptist in the wilderness was mocked for preaching "Repent- Get Right with God", and our persecutors take us by force. "From the time of John Baptist up to now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent ravage it:" Matthew 11:12. Please continue reading Matthew 11:18,19. |
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---Eloy on 7/8/07 |
Consider this scenario: something happens to those that will inherit the kingdom of heaven. A chikd of God. A prayer warrior is alerted to this problem and begins to pray and war spiritually about this matter. I have only encountered one prayer warrior. I saw him prostrate on the floor praying in an apartment in Shen Yang China, and it truly was a warring prayer. When he saw me he immediately stopped and composed himself to what we would call normalcy. |
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---mima on 7/8/07 |
The word violent int the Greek means valiant or faithful or basically setting your face like flint, not being double minded, the word taken is the same word used as caught up, as in us being caught up to meet Christ, a supernatural translation from one place to another, meaning to seek the Kingdom first putting everything else aside and by the Holy Spirit you will receive the Kingdom. |
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---exzucuh on 1/1/07 |
All this fighting with the devil is a deception, he is subject to Jesus and must bow,
many today are like the Sons of Zebedee trying to use the name of Jesus but have no authority to use it. If you are under the Blood and believe Jesus is the Son of God the devils will be subject to you. But if cannot through the Holy Ghost defeat the real enemy your flesh, Like Samson you will shake yourself for the anointing but be defeated. |
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---exzucuh on 1/1/07 |
In the Spiritual realm, there is a war going on for your spirit between angels & demons (spiritual warfare). Are you for God, or for Satan? You can fight with the angels for your spirit to be with God, or with the demons for your spirit to be with Satan. If you are fighting for God, you have to do battle violently, so as to take back what Satan has stolen from you. There is no room for wimpy wariors (soldiers). |
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---Leslie on 12/31/06 |
** Where is it in the Bible?**
Matthew 11:12. |
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---Jack on 8/12/06 |
First in stand in agreement with Debbie.
The verse means the Kingdom of Heaven allows aggressiveness, and the energetically aggressive seizes it and refuses to cave in give up or quit.
The kingdom of heaven is that realm of happiness that is our hope. This hope elevates our thinking & opens us to the empowerment of the Spirit who guides our course in life according to the Gospel of Christ. We embrace this hope and Gospel and refuse to to be deterred. |
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---Josef on 8/12/06 |
Can you give the scripture reference please. It is best to read and entire passage to determine the meaning instead of one sentence. |
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---Linda3 on 8/11/06 |
We, as born again believers, are seated in the heavenlies with Christ. Eph. 1:3; 2:6; We take that place by faith, we have to fight that good fight of faith. The heavenlies are full of demon forces that try to prevent you taking your place spiritually in the heavenlies, therefore, you have to take the kingdom of heaven by force, spiritually, by our violent faith we take our rightful,God given place. |
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---Debbie on 8/11/06 |
Where is it in the Bible? Often times if we just read the verse we get the wrong meaning behind it, but if you read the whole chapter it usually makes sense in its full context. |
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---Katie on 8/11/06 |
One interpretation is that Christ "violently seized the Kingdom" at the most violent act of His Crucifixion. |
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---Jack on 8/11/06 |
One other thing I would like to say about this prayer warrior. This man fasted 40 days without any substance except water!! |
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---mima on 8/11/06 |
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