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When Did Satan Fall

When did satan fall from heaven?

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 ---jhonny on 8/11/06
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Earl. You bring up interesting questions. Like, When did Satan fall? and, When was lucifer created?
---jhonny on 8/4/07


greetings,for johnny,my reply to your last question did not go through.the garden of eden incident took place 38'900 yrs. ago.the beginnings of our solar system was 4,500,000,000 yrs.ago.the out break of the lucifer rebellion was 200,000 yrs.ago.all numbers rounded.as far as the hosts of heaven there has never been a time when they were not, but as of the dragon's leaders they are created sons from the creator son,created sometime after 300,000,000,000yrs.ago.thanks
---earl on 8/4/07


"..watch out, we Jews tend to get very zealous for the Torah, in Yeshua(Acts21:20). It's interesting you use 21:20. This is part of a disemblamce to set up Paul so the Jews could kill him. Charge: 28, "This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and The Law..." I've read about the zealousness for the Law. And I am zealous for the Law as well, in the simplicity of Christ with new meaning and freedom from "Old Burdens" and "Death Cults".
---jhonny on 9/12/06


Yes Jeff the "torah guys" did kill Christ, and to say it was the Romans is not the record. And I'll do something you tend to avoid, with me anyway. Use relevant scripture.
14 "..the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men" And again Jeff we bury the simplicity of Christ with the old burdens of interpretative authority using the torah as a false god in unrighteousnss.
---jhonny on 9/12/06


My issue is not the torah. It is Jeff that you have made the torah equal to God. The torah was created. Your position is idolatry. And that's what I didn't know about you, to use your words. You refer to the original Hebrew in Rev. which Jeff it is written in the original Greek. The Burden once again is obedience to interpretation by authority programs. Mt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens," using the torah by interpretation. "Old burdens, to replace the simplicity of Christ."
---jhonny on 9/12/06




And no the Troah guys didn't kill him, had they been truly obedient to the Torah in the first place they would have accepted him as messiah. Jews don't crucify, Romans do.
---Jeff on 9/12/06


Jhonny- It shows and confims that it was through Yeshua that the creation was formed. This et is found all throughout Torah even being the one who gave it. This was a very simple example that children as young as 5 are taught. These were once mysteries but now are simplified through Yeshua. You don't get this understanding from a church.
---Jeff on 9/12/06


Jhonny-One last thing I forgot to respond to. You said The complexities of the Torah have been brought under "the simplicity that is in Christ" 2Cor11"3. In Rev 22:13 it says the alpha and omega. well actually the origuinal hebrew would have stated the Aleph and the Tav. those two words together form the hebrew word "et". In gen.1:1 It says "Beresh't bara elohim et" In the beginning of G-ds creating. The et is a direct object marker to let you know who it is speaking of.
---Jeff on 9/12/06


Alan- yes I am an orthodox jew, chassidic to be exact but I am a faithful follower and disciple of the Rebbe Yeshua Ben Yosef, who is Mashiach Tzidkenu! ( Rabbi Yeshua son of Joseph, Our Righteous Messiah)
---Jeff on 9/12/06


Last thing, then I'm done with this site, one thing you have comes from my people, you profess to know what a messiah is yet you're definition of the messiah is contrary to what G-d says. My people are seeing Yeshua as messiah, not from the christian church but from those who truthfully represent him as the ultimate Lawgiver and Savior of the world. When we all see Yeshua as messiah, watch out because we jews tend to get very zealous for the Torah, in Yeshua(Acts21:20). L'Shanah Tovah Tikatevu!
---Jeff on 9/12/06




You said Love is the divine principle for the law. "God is love", (1Jo4:9,16) God is not the torah. Such is the seed of idolatry and creating old burdens for worship. read 1John 5:2-3. That just contradicted your whole thing about the Torah being a burden. To love G-d is to keep his commandments. In rev.14:12 what is the identifying marker for the believer ? That he keeps the commandments of G-d and hold to the testimony of Yeshua as Messiah.
---Jeff on 9/12/06


Why is the church having such a hard time with homosexuals leading the congregation and such. Because the new testament is up to so much interpretation and there is no Torah to balance it. Without Law you're Lawless. Christians have forgot that these laws are straight from the Fathers mouth. If you hate the Law is it the rules that you hate or the Lawgiver?
---Jeff on 9/12/06


Torah is not a burden, in Yeshua it is actually a joy. It is the way it is meant to be, G-d is a father to us and like any loving father he gives us rules, not to subjugate us, but to protect us. If you have children do you not have rules to give them so they will be obedient to you and do as you say, and is it not LOVE that generates those laws? When a child obeys is not the hope of the parent that the child obeys out of love?
---Jeff on 9/12/06


In judaism believing isn't just a verbal affirmation or thought process, it literally means to walk out. acts24:17& 18 verify that he still kept doing the required sacrifices. Acts28:17 Paul affirms he never left or did contrary to the customs(oral Torah ) of the fathers, ie he stayed true to pharisee judaism.The way to worship G-d is established in the Torah, Christ does not take away or destroy that. Fulfill doesn't mean done away with, it means to give meaning to so when you do it it has new meaning.
---Jeff on 9/12/06


Jhonny- Man, I don't know about you. One minute you agree with me and how important Torah is and the next you pull a 180and make it sound like you disagree and that Torah is authoritarian, military styled religious slavery. In answer to your very last question, yes christianity uses Rav Shau'l (paul) to negate Torah. Paul is a very orthodox jew and even stated in Acts24:14 that he believes everything in the Tanach(torah,Prophets, writings).
---Jeff on 9/12/06


Lee1- I find it very sad that you believe me to be a muslim. You know the messiah is jewish right? If you think he is a gentile and looks like a christian you will be sadly mistaken come judgement day. BTW I'm jewish, and even though I am not going to get offended by your careless statement, I think an apology is in order. I suggest you get to know the jewish messiah before passing such rash judgements. Read Romans 11:17-21. Anyway you can hate me but its t'shuva so "L'Shanah Tovah Tikatevu".
---Jeff on 9/11/06


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Jeff you ask for scripture, yet you make bold statements and provide zero scripture. Such as; "..since chrisianity negates and nullifies Torah through Paul's writings." It may be a cheap shot, or you just apply burdens for others to keep. Are you saying that Paul negates the torah, or are you saying christianity uses Paul to do away with the torah. This kind of thing requires what you ask of others.
---jhonny on 9/11/06


Jeff: If we are using the torah to bind a bunch of oppression on people to grieve them with various rites and precepts we are in opposition to the purpose of Christ- Freedom from authoritarian, military styled religious slavery. Stern obligation to the corrupted priesthoods and sects running the torah is not from Christ. Christ himself was oppressed by their interptetations. In fact the torah guys killed Hin.
---jhonny on 9/11/06


Jeff: The torah (which is the first 5 books of the bible as I understand it) is not God. The torah is not obeyed by holy days or other obedience to interpretation by authority programs. The torah is fulfilled in Christ by profound generosity and simplicity. Ro 13:8 "..for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." Love is the divine principle for the law. "God is love", (1Jo4:9,16) God is not the torah. Such is the seed of idolatry and creating old burdens for worship.
---JHONNY on 9/11/06


Lee 1 ... On 6th September on the blog about animal sacrifice, Jeff confirmed that he is an orthodox Jew.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/11/06


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2. Your best place to go is to a muslim website where you can correct your own kind. Here we try to help each other. Pray that some day you too will know Christ and that you be an instrument for the Lord in your faith. continuing to converse is useless.
---lee_1 on 9/11/06


Hello Jeff, I can see by your statements that you are a muslim. You do not believe in the whole of Scripture so it would be hopeless for us to even consider anything to be correct if you do not believe Scripture. What I give you would not be of any use to you. You have your believes. You come on line to disputed Christianity. You and I don't have anything in common. While others are Christian and might dispute things they interpret, yet they believe in Scripture.
---lee_1 on 9/11/06


Jeff there's a problem with this statement, "..if you understood hebrew and read torah and studied the complexities of the torah in hebrew.." The complexities of the Torah have been brought under "the simplicity that is in Christ" 2Cor11"3, manifested by generosity, not by craft and skill, and clever affairs. Love is the original principle the torah was founded upon. That's why love fulfills the law. Ro 13:8 "..for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."
---jhonny on 9/11/06


Good observations Jeff. #2
"Please show using scripture only where G-d divided the Torah into three categories of moral, civil and ceremonial law".
It is an artificial division so they get rid of the laws they don't like. It all looks so intellectual. Speaking of division Christianity initially was a sect of Judaism which they later made separate. Too much study and this religion gets far more "Jewish" than they would like. They don't use scripture for this stuff.
---jhonny on 9/11/06


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Thanks Jeff for your points. #1
"please show where G-d said that when messiah comes that he would nullify or take away any part of the Torah. I have asked many christians especially pastors,..."
I'm on your side on that one Jeff. It is a bad spirit that pursues such a lie. In fact not only is the law not nullified but the opposite is true. Christ has made the law greater and more glorious. It is antithetical and oppositional to Christ and they claim Christ as their leader.
---jhonny on 9/11/06


Hey Jeff. You say; "Please show using scripture" and "..use scripture only..". And Jeff to answer you I used scripture only. Your response: "Jhonny- you brought up the verse about all things created by G-d, .. but if you understood.. you would have understood.. please disregard my comment, thanks". So Jeff, use scripture only, means only the ones that don't make me think. Making me think differently by scripture means your not understanding me? Want more scripture truly?
---jhonny on 9/11/06


We cannot explain everything agreed. But Tofurabby we can explain what the bible reveals. Isa 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning,.." What happens in the end?
Re 21:23 "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." And that's how it was in the beginning before the greater and lesser lights (and the stars) were created.
---jhonny on 9/8/06


Jhonny and Lee1-I do have one question for both of you though. Please show using scripture only where G-d divided the Torah into three categories of moral, civil and ceremonial law and please show where G-d said that when messiah comes that he would nullify or take away any part of the Torah. I have asked many christians especially pastors and they cannot give any explanation other than that was what they were taught. And please use scripture only not some other books that you read.Thanks
---Jeff on 9/8/06


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Jhonny- you brought up the verse about all things created by G-d, I agree but if you understood hebrew and read torah and studied the complexities of the torah in hebrew then you would have understood what I tried to convey so like Lee1 please disregard my comment, thanks.
---Jeff on 9/8/06


Lee1-Oh and you're right it is a scroll, I believe messiah said that in the whole of the scroll it is wriiten of Him. So by you're statement you have proven that 1. messiah was created,2. that he is not an attribute of G-d, and 3. he did not create the creation since he could not have preceded it, 4. I guess the whole of the scroll is weird to you, very sad. Thanks lee for clarifying more christain heresy
---Jeff on 9/8/06


Lee1-Sorry I realized after I posted what I posted that there is no way to explain this to a christian since chrisianity negates and nullifies Torah through Paul's writings.Torah as a attribute of G-d is something that would take up far to much space for an 85 word limit blog. Just forget i said it and continue in your discussion with jhonny.
---Jeff on 9/8/06


jhonny, Gen 1:14-19 (which is the 4th day) is the day when God created the sun, moon and stars. The creation of these were "for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:". So the creation of a time system did not happen until day 4... so how did the first 3 days even exist? Days 1-3 had mornings and evenings, which normally needs the earth rotating around the sun to exist. My point is, God's power is way out of our league, we can never expect to explain everything.
---tofurabby on 9/8/06


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Ro 7:13 "Was then that which is good made death unto me, God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful."
Men already had murdered. So could the law prevent murder? The law was added to manifest sin to a greater and more extreme degree. Christ glorified the law. To wander from the path of uprightness and honour commits the offence and the tresspass. The law is enhanced in Christ.
---jhonny on 9/8/06


Oh ya Lee 1. Thanks for qualifying your position. I wasn't sure if I was a target or not. Sounded pretty deadly. Whoah.
---jhonny on 9/8/06


Togurabby: Your quote, "The earth was there prior to your morning.." Gen 1: 1-5 represents the creation process accomplished on the first day of creation. Man does his own generate devising by trying to find extra days and times hidden inside the words which end up outside the words of the bible. Genesis 1: 1-5 depicts and portrays one day; not half a day, half a story or half the truth (or less). Before the first day of creation there was darkness and that's what they will inherit.
---jhonny on 9/7/06


Thanks lee-1, Jeff brings his point with an inductive conclusion "Torah was before the creation since it is the divine attribute of G-d and since G-d cannot be created he did not create the Law."

Scripture is infallible on this point. Col 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
---jhonny on 9/7/06


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jhonny, prior to Gen 1:3-5 (the first day when God created light and I assume the first morning you speak of) "God created the heaven and the earth". "the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." when God started Gen 1:3-5. So, The earth was there prior to your morning and the angels were their prior to that.
---tofurabby on 9/7/06


2. The Torah does contain some of God's moral law, but what it is, is a "Scroll" containing the Pentateuch. The body of Jewish religious literature. Meaning, the "Hebrew law". I don't see how it was before creation and even less an attribute of God.
---lee_1 on 9/7/06


jhonny, I was not contradicting you at all. As a matter of fact you have great points. I read what all of you are writing and just throw in something in there. I was refering to Morgans comments. They are based from Angley and I find his teachings very wrong. I cannot understand though where Jeff gets the Torah was an attribute of God and that it was before creation. Sounds kind of weird to me. If he is speaking of "God's moral" law, it is his nature, but the Torah is not God's moral law.
---lee_1 on 9/7/06


WHEN were the foundations of the earth laid? For this purpose described as; pedestals, towers and base, sockets and pillars, fasteneing and piercing chief objects establishing strength, firmness and solidity. A process of placing, marking and measurement.
The temple is built up. The body of Christ is built up. Faith is built up. "Let all things be done for building up." 1Co14:26 Building up, that's how the creator did it from the beginning starting with without form and void.
---jhonny on 9/7/06


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Jeff, what are you talking about that the Torah was before the creation," and who said the Torah was one of the attributes of God? Can you explain what in the world you are talking about? Please explain from Scripture and not other books you have read.
---lee_1 on 9/7/06


Tofurabbly: So when were the foundations laid, that also included angelic rejoice?
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Notice it says "morning stars". Is that the morning before God created mornings. There were no mornings before they were created, and that record of morning creation stands in the Genesis part of the Torah.
---jhonny on 9/7/06


Tofurabby your quote: "We already concluded that Satan and the angels were created before the cornerstones of the earth were laid..."
Your previous quote: "They rejoiced WHEN he laid the cornerstone. This is used as a conjuction.."
My response was this: "Tofurabby: Thank you for this deduction.
Good point: "The only conclusion would be the angels were created first in order to have the ability to rejoice "while" the cornerstone was laid."
---jhonny on 9/7/06


Hey Jeff, good input on the Jewish wisdom stuff. But this I don't understand from you, or I am missing something in the "translation". You quote a directive to me..."1. Say The Law of G-d rather than Moses. 2. Torah was before the creation.."
I'm sure your must know that the term, "the law of Moses" is used extensively throughout the old testament and continuing into the new testament. I am not clear on the problem with using as I did the law of Moses. Point 2. support?
---jhonny on 9/7/06


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Lee1, Sounds like you've identified a serious flaw based in some high profile erudition. My willingness to understand is limited by my comprehension of the term hermeutical interpretation. I didn't find it in my book. Thanks
---jhonny on 9/6/06


jhonny, I read what you put down, "Miss Morgan, when our knowledge in the beginning of the Bible is in error, by the time we reach the end of the Bible, that error is much greater." That is what I believe is the most serious error that people have. It comes from false teachers, from books of evangelist, from people that have no concept about how to hermeutically interpret Scripture and they go on the wrong path. Many times
---lee_1 on 9/6/06


jhonny- you said "It's the creator who identified sin, and He pointed to Adam and Eve first. The Law of Moses was not in existence,"1. Say The Law of G-d rather than Moses. 2. Torah was before the creation since it is the divine attribute of G-d and since G-d cannot be created he did not create the Law. Messiah is the Word come flesh, right? 3. If they didn't have the Torah(Law) who told Cayin(Cain)and Hevel(Abel) to sacrifice first fruit offerings to G-d 3000 years before the Law was given?
---Jeff on 9/6/06


We already concluded that Satan and the angels were created before the cornerstones of the earth were laid... which would be prior to the first day on our earthly record. So yes, it would have to be prior to the revealed record... which is a timeline created for our human earth. God is infinite so obviously things went on prior to our creation. To assume that God did nothing prior to Genesis day 1 is not logical.
---tofurabby on 9/6/06


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I thought maybe I would throw a little jewish wisdom in: According to the Torah and many sages understanding of the verse, hasatan(satan)was created on the 4thday of creation. The word for lights in the expanse of the sky can be read as luminaries or light bearers. Although they are speaking of stars and planets it also refers to the heavenly creatures as well. Notice that the larger luminaries are given dominion, even over the lesser stars.
---Jeff on 9/6/06


Tofurabbly you made reference to verse 15, "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,.." The "day". This word for day "yowm" is used 2287 times in the old testament. Which day was Lucifer created. Was he created on a day before days were created? Was it on a day outside of the revealed record, before there was light, as people want to beleive. The record of the first day created stands in the record.
---jhonny on 9/6/06


Tofurabby: I would agree with this. That almost everyone would agree with you on this fact as you quote it. "Ez. 28:16 is referring to an earlier point in time,.." This statement is incorrect. The record states that Lucifer sinned and the record states what the sin was as you correctly put forward. "..till iniquity was found in thee." The record also gives account of that iniquity. "Because thou hast done this,.." as recorded Gen. 3: 1-5.
---jhonny on 9/6/06


Ez. 28:16 is referring to an earlier point in time and God clearly identified Satan's action as sin.
In verse 15 it says "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."
Is it possible to lose perfection without committing sin? What is iniquity? (1. gross injustice or wickedness. 2. a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.)
---tofurabby on 9/5/06


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Lisa, Good points you made. "Lost people walk to the course of the this world,.."end quote.
1cor.5:
12, "..do not ye judge them that are within?
13, But them that are without God judgeth.
The body of believers unified by the faith of Christ should be loving their wives and speaking up against unsavory behaviour. Further loving one another in that faith. This is how that is done. Ga 6:2 "Bear ye one anothers burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."
---jhonny on 9/5/06


It is the creator who identified sin, and He pointed to Adam and Eve first. The Law of Moses was not in existence, so if you want to call sin as temptation, so be it. It's the fact of disobedience identified first to Adam, not the serpent.
---jhonny on 9/5/06


The sin referred to in Ez. 28:16 was Satan's rebellion against God, not the tempting of Eve. Satan had already sinned and it was his corrupted nature that tempted Eve.
---tofurabby on 9/5/06


Tofurabby quote, "What about the passage in Ezekiel that is speaking of Satan?
"...and thou hast sinned..." Ez. 28:16
Satan was the first sinner, not Adam."
Reply: First inquiry Adam: "..Hast thou eaten..?" Next;-woman. Now the serpent: "..Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed.." First mention of sin is to Adam, then to Eve, and I don't believe the devil/serpent thought he sinned at all. And he would still argue that point. Adam sinned first.
---jhonny on 9/4/06


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Faith and truth are inseparable.
Are we free to believe any old junk about the beginning? Does faith mean believe what you want? So many comfortable with falsehood. Must be from a bigshot?
2Thes2:13 "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"
"Belief" is the Gk. word "pistis": translated as; "faith, assurance, belief". 2:13 shows the purpose of faith is to believe the truth.
---jhonny on 9/4/06


Scipture ref.
Gal3:6 "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
Heb4:6 "Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:"
2Thes2:3 "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,.."
1Tim4:1 "..in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
---jhonny on 9/3/06


Can we glorify God with falsehood? Knowledge and information is not the doing. It is belief that is the doing(Gal3:5)and unbelief is disobedience(Heb4:6). It is a falling away(2Thes2:3)from the faith(1Tim4:1). The bible is clear who will be saved(Re21:8) "But the fearful and unbelieving.." (Re22:15, Ga5:19-21).
---jhonny on 9/3/06


Mrs. Morgan: When our knowledge at the beginning of the bible is in error by the time we reach the end of the bibe that error is much greater. Because so many of these ideas are outside the words of the bible, it has becone a disbelief initiative constantly in flux. Falsehood is unbelief, it is against the law of Christ. De 13:3 "..the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."
---jhonny on 9/3/06


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Lisa: You are so right they are slaves. The problem is compounded by the evidence, most like their slavery, bondage, and captivity. It feels good being obedient, and they've made it so easy, you don't even have to prove the truth or read the bible anymore. We'll tell you how to serve God. Obey us, pay and pray, occupy a seat in the right place, listen to the right sermons and keep your tail beyween your legs, because you're never good enough and you're not pleasing us.
---jhonny on 9/3/06


jhonny, you are correct in your stance on the "prince and power of the air" example. The very point that unbelievers are influence and make many choices but they are never for God for they have emnity against God, and do not have the capacity to reason anything having to do with God. They are slaves to sin and unable of themselves to see or hear God. They need life, and only the Holy Spirit can give life. Lost people walk to the course of the this world, "this world order" under Satan.
---lisa on 9/3/06


jhonny,(6.)It's going to be horrible for those on planet earth during this time(The 7 year Great Tribulation Period) the devil will be full of wrath, hell will litterly be broiling over on earth, and God will be pouring out All of His Judgments at the same time! Never had there been a time like this! And it's almost here. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/2/06


jhonny,(5.).....At the end of the 7 Year Great Tribulation period, satan will be cast in to the pit for 1000 years, and he will know this while he is being cast down and defeated by Michael and the armies of God....
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/2/06


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jhonny,(4.).....And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/2/06


jhonny,(3.) ....cast out with him. *(Notice where it says that deceiveth the whole world when satan was cast out of God's Main heaven, Adam and Eve didn't exist at that time, hence this isn't what Revelation 12:9 is referring too.) .....(vs. 10-12) "....And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/2/06


jhonny, (2.)Now, The "War in Heaven" that occurs during the Great Tribulation between Michael and satan (Revelation 12:7-12)"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were...
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/2/06


jhonny (1.) (Revelation 12:9) Can be confusing, you are thinking this is when satan and his fallen angels were first cast out from God's Main Heaven which occured before Adam and Eve were created. Remember there are several heavens, and the devils can get up there, but Michael and his armies will cast them down to the earth during the 7 year Great Tribulation Period. Revelation takes some time to understand believe me!
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/2/06


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jhonny , Your welcome , I really appreciated it when God's people took the time to explain things to me, and God is still teaching me things! I love the Lord's godly reasoning. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/2/06


Mrs. Morgan: "At the time of Job, satan was fallen, thus he wasn't in God's Main Heaven."

Yes Satan was in heaven at the time of Job.
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
---jhonny on 9/2/06


Mrs. Morgan Eph 2: 2, "..according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: "the power of the air" refers to jurisdiction authority in the atmospheric region, which denotes authority to influence choice or the power of choice to really do as one would please, and the power to manage or affect strength. Isa14:12 "..which didst weaken the nations!"
---jhonny on 9/2/06


Mrs. Morgan: "BUT he will be cast down, soon," Should read bound soon. Rev12:9 already happened. 8 "..And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
---jhonny on 9/2/06


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Tofurabbly: Statements that are guesswork by you own words are not immune from attack. "Guesswork" doesn't mean bulletproof. Guesswork is not always as innocent as it sounds. Snap judgment and hearsay can be guesswork. You can guess corectly and you can guess incorrectly. It is not wrong to say a guess is incorrect.
---jhonny on 9/2/06


Mrs. Morgan, thanks for clarification. I understand.
---jhonny on 9/2/06


Earl: Thanks for the details and the response.
---JHONNY on 9/2/06


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