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Are There Absolute Truths

Do you believe that there is ONE ABSOLUTE TRUTH when it comes to the bible?

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 ---Myrrh on 9/1/06
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Do I believe there is one absolute truth? ABSOLUTELY.
---Donna2277 on 9/25/06

How true Okebaram, lol
---Christina on 9/24/06

Think about this, the statement: "there are No absolute truths" would be an absolute truth if it were true.
---Okebaram on 9/24/06

2. Dead to all things of God. That is the spiritual death mentioned in Scripture. We are told that Christ was "foreknown indeed (as a sacrifice for sin) before the foundation of the world," 1 Peter 1:20. Paul speaks of the eternal purpose" which was purposed in Jesus Christ our Lord, Eph. 3:11. Christ in His human form completed the task but in no way did God's spirit died. He gave up the Ghost at the cross. His human body died.
---lisa on 9/19/06

Billy, how could Christ lay down His life that He had in heaven? Now that is rediculous. Heaven is a spiritual realm. God is spirit and He cannot die. His mortal body died. The one He was born with by Mary in order to sacrafice His body for our sins. His physical body died and resurrected. His Spiritual being never died. How can a Spirit die? The spiritual death of the lost is seperation from God. Anything that is of God dies.
---lisa on 9/19/06

" Constantine demanded, with the death penalty for disobedience of any that refused to comply "

I did not find that in Schaff. Do you have a reputable source saying that?
---JohnT on 9/18/06

Billy, I believe that what Lee was trying to say was not that Jesus preexisted as a mortal but that he was born as a mortal.
---Bruce5656 on 9/18/06

Jerry, please go back to see what weve been talking about. I think you will get the point then. Thanks
---Billy on 9/18/06

Billy: Yes, Jesus was TEMPORARILY brought down to OUR level "for the suffering of death." So what's your point?
---jerry6593 on 9/18/06

Lee, do you believe that Jesus died? Whats so hard to undersatnd that Jesus laid down his life that He had in heaven, and became a man, "a real flesh and blood man", and truly died for our sins. Tell me how He could die if He was still what he was before he became a man.
---Billy on 9/17/06

Billy - "...I do believe that Jesus pre-existed before his birth as a mortal."

To be mortal means that one can die. So if you believe Jesus existed prior to His birth on earth as a mortal then there seeems to be a problem with your understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. And all things were created by Him and for Him. John 1.
---lee on 9/17/06

JohnT, You didnt answer my question. Would your beliefs be different if it went the other way? You hold these men "COUNCIL OF NICAEA" up to such a high standard. The frontman Constantine demanded, with the death penalty for disobedience of any that refused to comply. If I were on this council headed by such a savage, I would have walked, not wanting nothing to do with that kind of additued. No wonder it got accepted by everyone back then. Receive it or die!!!
---Billy on 9/17/06

Jerry6593, Psalm 8:5 is quoted by Paul in Heb 2:6, and goes on to say in Heb 2:9 that this was speaking of Jesus.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
---Billy on 9/16/06

Billy, Im not RC. The Ecumenical Creeds (Apostles, Nycea, etc.) are saying Scripture says this. Thus, all Christian churches accept them. Are you familiar with the Apostles Creed? (I believe in God, the Father Almighty...)

Scripture, not mens opinion, is the basis for the creeds, and as such are the foundation of theology for the church. Likewise, systematic theology is a study of Scripture, and we use our words to say what is there.
Whenever we say, I believe, we use systematic theology.
---JohnT on 9/16/06

I can't believe that I find myself on the same side as Lee & John T. Billy, your quote of Psalm 8:5 ("a little lower than the angels") in reference to Jesus' nature actually refers to man, not to Jesus; and thus is non-sequitur.
---jerry6593 on 9/16/06

I dont build my beliefs on universal statements, accepted by Christians world wide, or by what some council decides what truth is. I believe the bible. The majority are not always right. And no im not Arian or a JW, and no I dont believe in the Apostles Creed. If you believe in these things, are you Catholic?
---Billy on 9/15/06

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JohnT, you continue to not see my point. "little lower than the angels" ment he became flesh. Why dont you explane to me what an angelic nature is. Is it some kind of spirit that isnt mortal? You cant seam to accept that Jesus layed down his divinity and became a man that could die. You build your beliefs on the Council of Nicea, on which side won the debate. would your beliefs be different if it went the other way?
---Billy on 9/15/06

"little lower than the angels" That is the humanity of Jesus, it NEVER says, "took on an angelic nature"
The John 17 passage is easly explained as the HUMAN Jesus praying to his Father
The hypostatic union is a doctrine hashed out before Nycea, and affirms that Jesus was 100% God, 100% man without mixture or separation. It is a universal statement, accepted by Christians world wide. Do you accept the Apostles Creed?
Are you an Arian or a JW?
---JohnT on 9/15/06

JohnT, Heres another scripture.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had "past tense" with thee before the world was.
Christ was a man while in the flesh, he retained his true glory that he once had with his father after his resurrection.
---Billy on 9/15/06

(3). Lee, I do believe that Jesus pre-existed before his birth as a mortal. Our argument is did Jesuss sacrifice extend to the angles, just read our last several post to see.
---Billy on 9/15/06

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(2). JohnT, how could Jesus truley die for our sins if he didnt lay down what he was in heaven, and become a man just like you and me? Im not adding a third nature to Christ. Christ returned to the glory that he once had with the father, after he was resurrected. John, he did lay it all down when he became flesh. Yes he was God, thats why he couldnt sin, but to say that he was devine while in the flesh would be to say that Jesus couldnt truly die when he was crucified. He was dead for three days.
---Billy on 9/15/06

(1). JohnT, no scripture? John, Jesus laid down his divinity and what he was in the heavens when he became a man. John, I will use scripture for proof.
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
---Billy on 9/15/06

Billy: Not speculation, but BASIC theology. There are many Scriptures for that.
However, you speculate when you state that Jesus took upon himself an angelic nature in addition to his having human and divine natures.
The two natures of Christ are well-established through systematic theology.
However, there are NO Scriptures indicating that Jesus took upon himself a third, angelic nature.
---JohnT on 9/15/06

Billy - *Yes when Jesus was resurrected he took on immortality, not mortality.*
???? Are you trying to say that Jesus was did not pre-exist?
I always thought God the Father sent Jesus into the world meaning that Jesus was always immortal and always co-existed with God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
---lee on 9/14/06

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JohnT, when Jesus was resurrected, he took upon himself spirit. He became like the angles, or as you would say, *an angelic nature*. But he was far above them, concerning who he was. Heb 9:23 says that it was necessary that the things in the heavens should be purified also. Did he not purify those things also? So where does this leave the angles? His sacrifice is for the cleansing of sin, so I guess you would still say that Christs sacrifice didnt purify those things in the heavens?
---Billy on 9/14/06

JohnT, you did it again. No scriptural proof for your speculations. Here is another scripture.
Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the RESURRECTION from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: FOR THEY ARE EQUAL UNTO THE ANGELS; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
---Billy on 9/14/06

Jesus is a man with two distinct natures: divine and human. He is 100% God, 100% man without mixture or separation.

Because he is God, he's the perfect sacrifice; because he's man he's the perfect substitution. Therefore, he paid the blood ransom for humanity; without shedding of blood...

Angels are different creations, and no Scripture indicates that Jesus had an angelic nature. Therefore, the Atonement can not be applied to angels.
---JohnT on 9/14/06

Jerry6593, ive never called evil good. You still didnt answer my question. Do you believe in annihilation? Is Mal 2:17, all you can come up with to falsely accuse me of denying Gods judgments? I thought that you might do a little better than the two dud grenades that JohnT threw at me.
---Billy on 9/14/06

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JohnT, where is your scriptural proof that Christs sacrifice cant cleans the things in heaven. Everything your saying is just speculation. Show me the proof
---Billy on 9/14/06

JohnT, im sorry, I did it again. trying to get you to read between the lines. I had better explane, so you wont think im saying something that I didnt. Yes when Jesus was resurrected he took on immortality, not mortality. He took on spirit when he went to his father to be the sin offering for all. God accepted his sacrifice when he died physically, and spiritually for all sins.
---Billy on 9/14/06

JohnT, what kind of nature do you think that Jesus had when he was resurrected to go back to his Father, which was in the heavens? Was it a flesh and blood body that went into heaven, to be the wave offering for the sins of all his creation? Flesh and blood cant inherit the kingdom. I gave you scripture to show that the THINGS IN THE HEAVENS SHOULD BE PURIFIED WITH THESE also. If you cant believe the bible, your in sad shape.
---Billy on 9/14/06

JohnT, I guess I took it fo granted that you understood what I was saying, means I had said earlier that *Most people THINK that the heavens, and all the host of heaven, existed long before the SIX DAYS IT TOOK FOR GOD TO CREATE IT IN GENESIS. BUT THIS ISNT TRUE. The reason I said all at once, "meaning within six days", he created them both, and that one couldnt exist without the other. Ill try not to talk between the lines, if thats to hard for you to understand.
---Billy on 9/14/06

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Billy: Here are your grenades, and where your argument fails: "all of creation was made at the same time"
Simply, you mix the temporal and eternal. Genesis says that things were created in days, not all at once. Time is like a soap bubble in eternity, and it will pop when Jesus comes, being no more.
Grenade 2: For Jesus to redeem angels, he has to have the nature of an angel, also. Because Jesus has no angelic nature, angels can not be redeemed.
---JohnT on 9/14/06

Billy: "Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?" - Mal 2:17
---jerry6593 on 9/14/06

God is the only absolute him is no lie,no darkness, he is light.spirit,love,the only ever truth,the one and only truth,the only one worthy to be praised,halueah,amen,blessed be the name of the .
---tom2 on 9/14/06

(7). But what Jesus did, was not to just spill his blood in the natural," we couldnt have had the second man Adam, without the first man Adam", without spiritually purifying the heavens with his sacrifice also. So see John, Jesus's sacrifice does benifit those things in the heavens also. If it was just for us alone, then why would the things in heaven need to be purified also? Christ died for all sin, including the sins of the angles that were in the heavens.
---Billy on 9/13/06

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(6). Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; BUT INTO HEAVEN ITSELF, now to appear in the presence of God for us. "The us would mean any that have sin, including angles".
You said * the nature of the Atonement must be different than it is if spiritual beings could experience salvation.* John, it wasnt the nature of the Atonement that was different "for without the shedding of blood is no remission of sin".
---Billy on 9/13/06

(5). So, could all this tie in togather that even the spiritual could benifit the blessings of salvation like the fleshley things? Well here it is.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 IT WAS THEREFORE NECESSARY THAT THE PATTERNS OF THINGS IN THE HEAVENS SHOULD BE PURIFIED WITH THESE; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
---Billy on 9/13/06

(4). The point im trying to make, and I hope you see, is that all of creation was made at the same time for a reason. God hade made it so that the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, and could be understood by the things that are made. God had made one for the other. And one couldnt exist without the other. The earthly things give us a glimps into the heavenly things. This is the way God has ordained it to be. So it cant be any other way.
---Billy on 9/13/06

(3). Im getting to a point so hang in there. OK, heres another scripture.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
---Billy on 9/13/06

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(2). Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Gen 2:1 Thus the HEAVENS and the EARTH were finished, AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM.

Most people think that the heavens, and all the host of heaven, existed long
before the six days it took for God to create it in Genesis. But this isnt true.
---Billy on 9/13/06

(1). JohnT, sorry it took so long. You had asked, * the nature of the Atonement must be different than it is if spiritual beings could experience salvation.* First I would like to point out, that it's funny that nothing existed till God started creating. What I mean by this, is that all the hosts of heaven, the earth, and everything within, didnt exist till, or even before the six days that it took for God to do all of this. Nothing that we know of existed before those six days. Heres proof.
---Billy on 9/13/06

JohnT, You made me laugh enough to work lots of healing medicine in this tired body! LOL. But, I dont like to be branded with any certain titles, because ive been called everything from a heritic, to a blasphemer. O well, whats one more name, right? LOL. But eather way I do believe in the salvation of all. Its gotten a little late where I live, so ill work on your answer about the atonement tomorrow. God bless brother.
---Billy on 9/11/06

Please clarify if you believe in universal salvation.
I want to be sure before I atart throwing grenades! (LOL)
Seriously, the nature of the Atonement must be different than it is if spiritual beings could experience salvation. That is a big hurdle.
---JohnT on 9/11/06

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John T, That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth. The scriptures say that we will judge angles. They will have a chance to repent, and repent they will. No im not a JW, and when have I denied that there wasnt a lake of fire, and that judgement wouldnt fall on all men? How does universal salvation deny judgement? It doesnt!
---Billy on 9/11/06

Jerry Jerry, I gave scripture that says what a resurrection is. Now the second resurrection is no different than the first, other than thy are wicked and that they have no power, and it takes place at a latter time for them to be judged. I take it that you believe in annihilation.
---Billy on 9/11/06

Jerry, here we agree.
Billy, in order for angels to be redeemed they need to be able to repent. Nothing in Scripture says that.
For angels to be redeemed, Jesus would need to have an angelic nature, in addition to being fully human and divine.
You seem to be using Scripture to promote a universal salvation; this denies the many words of Jesus stating that there is an actual hell for punishment of disobedient men and fallen angels.
Are you JW?
---JohnT on 9/11/06

Billy: I believe that your thesis rests on the false assumption that those of the second resurrection put on immortality. The Bible does not say that. It says that the wages of sin is death - not eternal life of torture.
Mal 4:1,3 "all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. .... they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet."
---jerry6593 on 9/11/06

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(8). He said to him, 'You bad servant! I will use your own words to condemn you! You know that I am a hard man, taking what is not mine and reaping what I have not planted. Was God everything that this evil servant said he was? Of course not. But if christianity believes that God is so terrible a God, to burn sinners in literal fire for all eternity, then out of there own mouths will thy be judged.
---Billy on 9/10/06

(7). Jerry, lets not forget about the wicked servant in Luke 19:22. And yes, according to the parable, he was a servant of Christ. But what did the servant say? "I was afraid of you, because you are a HARD MAN. You take what is not yours and reap what you did not plant." But lets see how God answers this type of additude.
---Billy on 9/10/06

(6). Jerry, For death to be destroyed, the lake of fire will have to have an end, because it is the second DEATH. Do we really think that God would eternally torcher sinners in a literal firey hell hole without a grander purpose of destroying there sin so that they can be purified and saved? To think God would do otherwise, would make God worse than Hitler!
---Billy on 9/10/06

(5). Jerry6593, we do know that this mortal must put on immortality, and this takes place by a resurrection. And this would also include the second resurrection. And yes, the second resurrection will have immortality. So how else can Satan be no more, and all the wicked dead be destroyed if they are immortal? Its a no brainer to see that the lake of fire of Gods judgement will destroy the evil, but the soul will be saved.
---Billy on 9/10/06

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(4). Jerry6593, Do you believe that the lake of fire will be the eternal resting place for Satan and all that have been disobedient? If so, then how will evil and death be destroyed if evil Satan, an all the rest are still alive in the lake of fire? Isnt the lake of fire called the second death? So if the lake of fire, which is the second death, is an eternal place, then death hasnt been defeated!! But scriptures do say that death will be defeated.
---Billy on 9/10/06

(3). Jerry6593, the reward of the wicked will not be equal to that of the righteous. The wicked are not promised aionion life like the righteous. Will not the righteous live through the millenium, and rule with Christ? But there will be no rulership for the wicked. Will not the saints judge this wicked world? But the wicked will not judge the saints. Gods judgements will be just!
---Billy on 9/10/06

(2). Alan8869, And we will, at that time be "cast into the lake of fire." But we are plainly told that it is better to endure that fire now, and be judged now, rather than to have the attitude of 'Well, I'm going to be saved any way, so I'll just live for the flesh and pay the price later. To say this would be speaking like a fool!!
---Billy on 9/10/06

(1). Alan8869, If our carnal nature is so ungrateful for the opportunity to rule with Christ, as opposed to being cast into a figurative 'lake of fire, which will "destroy death," and therefore also destroy 'hades,' that is, the grave, then WE WILL NOT BE in that "Blessed and holy... first resurrection." We will instead be raised after the thousand years. We will come up from our graves in what is called the "great white throne judgment."
---Billy on 9/10/06

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---Geoff on 9/10/06

Billy, Revelations says, blessed are those who have part in the first resurrection.
And Whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Jude also describes those who are reserved to hell. Not just for angels and satin.
---kathr4453 on 9/10/06

Billy: I still can't see the reward of the wicked as equal to that of the righteous. That is not justice. Hitler and Stalin equal with Mother Teresa and the apostle John? No way! How about these scriptures:
Eze 28:19 [Satan...] "never shalt thou be any more."
Rom 6:23 "the wages of sin is death."
Rev 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still:"
---jerry6593 on 9/10/06

Billy ... What an attractive idea! Salvation for all men, & even Satan.
Why then should we belive anything, why should we do the will of God & follow Jesus, what is the reason for the message that Jesus preached "Love you neighbour"?
There's no need for that if we are all saved anyway.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/10/06

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I believe there are many ABSOLUTE truths in the Bible...and each serves to support the others. But IMHO no living human can understand all the truth. And we can also misinterpret, misunderstand, the truths of the Bible.
---Donna2277 on 9/10/06

(10). Jerry, the scriptures are endless on how God will not let none of his creation be lost, like I said, Gods judgements will make things right. The lake of fire has a purpose, it will burn all the wood hay and stubble out of all that will have to go through this last great act of Gods mercy to cleans all unrighteousness. This is what destruction is, it destroys the sin, but saves the sinner.
---Billy on 9/9/06

(9). Isa 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over ALL people, and the vail that is spread over ALL nations.
Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off ALL faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off ALL the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY, but also for the sins of the whole world.
---Billy on 9/9/06

(8). Psa 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.
Psa 102:19 For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the earth;
Psa 102:20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death;
Isa 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
---Billy on 9/9/06

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(7). Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Lam 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever:
Lam 3:32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
---Billy on 9/9/06

(6). Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Isa 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. "verse 12 refers back to verse 11".
---Billy on 9/9/06

(5). Jerry, I have no problem believing the scripture that you quoted "Mat 7:13". There will be more people that will walk the wide path to destruction, than the narrow way that leads to life for the ages. I dont deny Gods judgement on all unrighteousness. But Gods judgements will yeald righteousness to all men. So ill give a few scriptures to show that Jesus will save all of mankind.
---Billy on 9/9/06

(4). The whole chapter of "Isa 14" Only refers to the king of Babylon, and not some fantom Angile named Lucifer, that was good and turned bad. Also, could Satan be anything other than what he was created to be? After all he was a lier and a murderer from the beginning. Do you not think that God created evil?
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I THE LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS.
---Billy on 9/9/06

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(3). God spiritually brought the king of Babylon down to hell, to the sides of the pit, but God would phsycially bring his rain to an end. If Satan was created good and then turned bad, then this scripture would not be true. John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. HE WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own. Satan was a lier and a murderer from his BEGINNING.
---Billy on 9/9/06

(2). If Lucifer was a good angile gone bad, wouldnt the rest of the scriptures support the theory. The sum of Gods word is truth. If you read the whole chapter of Isaiah 14, You would find out that it was addressed to the king of Babylon. Him saying in his heart, I will ascend into heaven, and exalting his throne above the stars of God, were just symbolic words that he had devised in his heart. Verse 13 of Isa 14 said "For thou hast said in thine heart" So these things were spiritual.
---Billy on 9/9/06

(1). Jerry6593, I found this hard to believe also, but to even come close to understanding the truth of this matter, you would have to understand that there are words that are mistranslated in our bibles. So now ill ask, is the name Lucifer in the original hebrew scriptures. The answer is NO. If you want to know the truth about the name Lucifer being A christian hoax, youll have to study it out for yourself. I do have info on it, but to explane it on this blog would take to much time.
---Billy on 9/9/06

Billy - 2: Secondly, you imply that everyone who has ever lived will eventually be saved. This also contradicts scripture. "for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadet to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (Mat 7:13)
---jerry6593 on 9/9/06

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Billy-1: You seem to make some assertions that I find disturbing. First, you state that "God CREATED Satan. God USES Satan. And Satan too, will be saved.... God will make him repent." The Bible teaches that God created Lucifer, who became Satan after sin was conceived in his heart. Further Satan IS God's enemy, has committed the unpardonable sin, and will be utterly destroyed in the lake of fire. He will not repent. God does not force anyone to repent.
---jerry6593 on 9/9/06

Yes indeedy: "You say that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Pilate says to him, What is truth? I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life: no man comes to the Father, except by me." John 18:37,38; 14:6.
---Eloy on 9/4/06

(9). All evil including DEATH itself will be abolished when God has used them to bring His family to a level of love and righteousness that He desires. We will then inherit all that God has and all that God is. God is truly OUR FATHER.
THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH IS THAT GODS WILL, WILL BE DONE. So if it's His will that none should perish, then none will perish....
---Billy on 9/3/06

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