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Can Man Save Himself

Who saves men? Does God save men, or does men save himself? I have read that men has to do certain things to gain salvation, so is men capable of saving himself? Please give Scriptures.

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 ---karen on 9/2/06
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2. Eloy, you are going to have a lot of trouble finding anything that says different. The Words of Christ is what we believe in Eloy. All of you that think different, I would like for all of you to go to sleep and asking God if you are right or wrong. He will give you wisdom, that He speaks the truth. "For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He will." more prove Eloy. I do love you Eloy, Blessings Eloy and goodnight
---lisa on 6/11/08


By grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9. Only Jesus can save!
---Cynthia on 7/21/07


No! No man can save himself, and to ask such a question you are making the blood of Christ out to be a lie. Look up your own scriptures. I do not have the time to do the work for you.
---catherine on 7/19/07


God saves, but man damns himself by his own actions or lack thereof, yet through Jesus there is hope until his last breath. Read the Bible.
---lorra8574 on 7/19/07


Eloy, "I do believe what I desire," I desire Christ. I will always desire Christ, because He put that desire in my heart. You believe what you desire. Humbleness is not your virtue. You, Eloy, don't need to listen because you are perfect already. Saved three times, and counting. I have been saved once. Don't have a desire to be saved twice or three times. Once is enough for me.
---mark on 7/19/07




#2. Billy: you have to stop and think what you are saying. You are saying man is soverign and God is not God. Furthermore, you believe in "Universal salvation" and you speak of people been kickout of God's kingdom. Maybe you mean that they are kickout and then they are saved again. I sure don't know where to follow you from. Let's say that you are save, born of the Spirit, a child of God, how and where do you read that God loses His children?
---mark on 7/19/07


.mark, you will believe whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 7/17/07


I reiterate, faith without works is 100% dead. "Every tree that brings not forward good fruit is hewn down, and thrown into the fire. Not every one that says up to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of heaven, rather he that DOES the commands of my Father which is in heaven." Mt.7:19,21. Please Read- Matthew 25:41-46, James 1:22, 2:14-26.
---Eloy on 7/17/07


Lisa put it plainly from part 5 to 7. She explained it very well. Eloy is confused because on the one hand he says to the SDA's there is no law, and then he turns around and tells the rest, a person has to work to earn salvation. One contradicting the other. What is the law? Obedience of works. The sins we have done aganist God while lost can only be forgiven by Christ and His sacrafice on the cross. Nothing else can achieve that purpose.
---mark on 7/16/07


#2. At the core of all sin is an act of pride. Pride says, "move over, God, I'm in charge" Therefore all sin at it core is blasphemy because it attacks God. When we come into this world we love sin, we love our rebellion, we love our pride, we love our blasphemy. Jesus taught, the central demand of God's law is to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength." Thus, the essence of all sin is the failure to love God.
---mark on 7/16/07




#3. And that failure to love God comes with unbelief. This shows up in John 16 where Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit who would "convict the world of sin..because they do not believe in Me" John 16:8. In other words, any failure to love and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ is a failure to love God. No one lost can love Christ. How can he do anything good for Him in order to be save, when he doesn't love Him in the first place?
---mark on 7/16/07


Mark: I will Join in and Give thanks and Praise to God with you.
---Marcia on 7/16/07


Jesus Christ is the ONLY one that can save. After salvation, Christians have an obligation to live a holy and righteous life, including obeying the 10 Commandments.
---Leslie on 7/16/07


Marcia, what you have said is very true indeed. People have a problem when someone says that we are saved by faith alone. They just don't get it that with that true faith, works follow. But works don't save, faith in Christ does. They continue to argue towards works, over and over and want to make works the cause of our salvation, but it is the evidence of our salvation. Two very different things. If works is the cause of our salvation then Christ sacrafice was not sufficient.
---mark on 7/16/07


For all those who do not understand the Gospel:

Man is a Sinner by nature (Rom 3:23).
Christ was without sin.
When one puts faith in Christ his sins are transferred to Christ who is without sin therefore that person takes on the rigtheousness of Christ.
---Marcia on 7/13/07


Here is the part were most Christian like myself and Duane bump heads, If a person is in the Rightousness of Christ can and have faith will faith alone save them. The answer is yes. The theif on the Cross is a perfect example of this. Jesus confirms this truth.

However if a person is trully saved they will express it through gratitude, this is were works come into play.
---Marcia on 7/13/07


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It is not that man is working to obtain salvation he is already save through faith. However it he has really understood in his heart what has just happened he would want to express his thankfullness to God through obedience.

God Bless!!
---Marcia on 7/13/07


For the man who does not work, HIS FAITH shall be counted as righteousness.
---duane on 7/12/07


The particular requirement in order to be saved is Faith or the particualar requirement in order to be save is faith and works? The real quetion is what are we putting our faith in, our faithfulness or Gods faithfulness?

A momment of Truth: We work not to obtain salvation but out of gratitude towards God. If a man does not work he will have no treasure in Heaven when he gets there.
---Marcia on 7/12/07


.lisa, There are particular requirements which are clearly spelled out in the Scripture that must be done by a sinner in order to obtain God's salvation. And if you wrongly believe that there is nothing to be done to be saved, then you are condemned, for if you do nothing at all for salvation, then likewise you will get no salvation at all. And so you will believe whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 7/12/07


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.lisa, "Every tree that brings not forward good fruit is hewn down, and thrown into the fire. Not every one that says up to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of heaven, rather he that DOES the commands of my Father which is in heaven." Mt.7:19,21. Please Read- Matthew 25:41-46, James 1:22, 2:14-26.
---Eloy on 7/12/07


We should never take credit for our salvation it is Christ that died so that we might live through him. It is the Holy Spirit who is our helper that is transforming us into the image of Christ not we ourselves. Praise God. Not man. Apart from God man can do nothing.
---Marcia on 7/11/07


Salvation doesnt come from the DEEDS of the flesh.
Salvation (life) comes from our death.
We must die to self
---duane on 7/11/07


I love your question because I have got into some battles on this site with those who want to say that we (can) lose our salvation once were saved. No we cannot save ourselves- that is just New Age doctrine, another way for Satin to try to seep false doctrine into the Church and cause people to never gain faith in Jesus. Satin knows he was defeated at the cross but he keeps trying to undo what was done on Calvary through messing with our faith though deception.
---Marcia on 7/11/07


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Better work that salvation that we may graduate from butter and honey; Isaiah 7. Do we think
that Jesus was only tempted on one occassion? Luke 22:28: "Ye are they which have continued
with me in my temptations.? James 1:12: "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for
when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them
that love him."
---Nana on 7/11/07


Eloy, when you answer the SDA's you are correct that we are not under condemnation of the law, this is speaking to the believer only. We are under grace in the New Covenant. You are correct when you speak on that part of the believer. But when it comes to the law, every non-believer has broken that law and sentence has been given to him already. He is going to hell because he loves what he does. So he will get what he deserves, justice. The others get mercy.
---lisa on 11/20/06


Good morning Eloy, I want to answer on the topic of salvation. I have see your arguments in other blogs and I can see your view as to the law very well. Also in other answers concerning the law, in your mind it no longer exist. Another thing you speak about is that man is able to himself to save himself which I don't agree with you either and I know you have know a lot about Scripture but I believe you have the two very wrong. Here is why I believe that Eloy. This subject is critical for evanelism.
---lisa on 11/20/06


2. We have to not contradict the character of God in our witnessing. The God to whom we witness has to be consistent with the God we worship. Our evangelism needs to stress a God of holiness, not just a God who exists to give us good times and pleasant feelings. We gained redemption through a Sovereign Savior rather than through a relationship to Him as a mere friend. The life of a Christian is to be "radically" different from, not relatively similar to, the world.
---lisa on 11/20/06


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3. The new cross that is presented in this time does not slay the sinner. It redirects him. It gears him into a cleaner jollier way of living and saves his self-respect. To the self assertive it says, "come and assert yourself for Christ". To the egotist it says, "come and do your boasting in the Lord" that one is common. To the thrill-seeker it says, "come and enjoy the thrill of the abundant Christian life." The idea behind this kind of thing maybe be sencere,
---lisa on 11/20/06


4. but does not save it from being false. It misses completely the whole meaning of the "Cross" The cross is a symbol of death. It stands for the abrupt violent end of a person, Christ. God salvages the indiviual by liquidation him and then raising him to newness of life. The corn of wheat must fall into the ground and die. God then bestows life, but not an improved old life. Whoever would possess it must pass under the rod. He must reputiate himself and concur in God's just sentence
---lisa on 11/20/06


5. against him. How can this theology be translated in life? Simply, the non-believer must repent and believe. He must forsake his sins and then go on to forsake himself. Let him cover himself with nothing, defend nothing, excuse nothing. Let him not seek to make terms with God, but let him bow his head before the stroke of God's stern displeasure and acknowledg Himself worthy to die. Why? because they have sinned against God's laws. His rebellion is against everything God stands for.
---lisa on 11/20/06


6. Without the breaking of the law, the non-believer will never feel his destined to death. He is guilty of everything. He deserves death. And when we think that the law is not in force now, as some here think, it is impossible for us to teach the true Gospel of Christ. What is the gospel? That God created man and women and that they rebelled against God. That everyone needs a Savior in order to make what? His life right with God. Right what what? from breaking God's law and he deserves only death.
---lisa on 11/20/06


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7. How do this two things I mention to you come into view? If we think we are able to come to Christ, we are able to boast that we are worthy of something. That somehow we have something in us that is good, and that we haven't broken any laws, " As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one." When unbelievers realize they have sinned against a holy God, they will repent through the power of the Holy Spirit conviction them of thier sin.
---lisa on 11/20/06


Eloy, I want to answer you but I have to leave for the weekend, try to answer from my daughters house but if not will do that later Sunday night. Blessings to you Eloy
---lisa on 11/18/06


lisa, If you were saved, then you know that all sinners are also able to be saved, through hearing the word of God. Your excuse that a sinner is helpless to become saved is empty, for many every day are coming to the Lord simply by believing that Christ is their Savior who has come to save them from their sin, and all they have to do is turn away from their sins and ask Jesus to come into their heart and life and to save them, and to make them a new and righteous life.
---Eloy on 11/16/06


Eloy, have you noticed when you walk to an unsaved person, that many times he is not open to hear the Truth? The reason is that the Spirit of God has not come to him or her yet. We as witnessess don't know who God will touch with His Spirit. All we can do is spread the Truth of the gospel. We have to have it right to begin with. The one's that want to hear, God is already working in them. You see lost people don't have the desire for God. As I have put down their desires is to do the desires of the devil.
---lisa on 11/16/06


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2. If God does not come to them, they will continue to desire the desires of the devil. He will never come forward. Now when you bring the Truth of the gospel to him or her, God begins to work in that person. You might not see that but God has a way of bringing the person to repentance by the Holy Spirit. Scripture is clear that repentance has to be granted to the person. I have already posted that part. Everything in Scripture connects Eloy. It all works together if we have it together.
---lisa on 11/16/06


3. many others don't want to hear anything only because they are still depraved. They will continue their journey until God has mercy on them and comes to them. The false believers, the one's that thought they were saved by emotion or someone's great words, but not Truth, will fall completely one day. Why? because they were never really saved to began with. Many times Christians say, "they fall away from God's Word" but this people were never brought the true Gospel.
---lisa on 11/16/06


4. As a teacher and pastor yourselve, you should know that if you believe what you believe about salvation, many are going to make a commitment, but you haven't taught them the Truth of Scripture. Now I am one person Eloy and not perfect in the least, I make mistakes but I try never, and I mean never, disregard any passages only because I believe what I do. How do you reconcile hundreds of passages?
---lisa on 11/16/06


5. You say an unbeliever is able to be saved. How can you believe that part when Scripture is clear what his condition is? But you insist only because that is what you believe. From Adam's fall, he is separated from God completely. Dead, blind, with a curse on him, unable to hear and see. Scripture say's that he is not even able to understand the word of God, for he cannot discern it. How in the world can he be able? It is not hard to understand those parts of Scripture Eloy. I say it with love really.
---lisa on 11/16/06


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5. Eloy, you don't have to listen to me if you want. You don't have to agree with me either. We all have a responsibility to learn correctly. All Scripture can be reconcile, but only one way. Otherwise you will have to throw half of God's Word in the garbish. God saves, He has mercy on whom He has mercy, and has compassion on whom He has compassion. He does His will in the Heavens and in this earth, and even Satan is under His control. There is no other God that is sovereign but Him.
---lisa on 11/16/06


lisa, the Bible is replete with scriptures on freewill and freedom of choice to be saved. Yes, the disobedient are condemned already, now in this life and also again in the hereafter. The unbeliever is able to believe, the disobedient is able to obey, and the sinner is able to be saved, but it requires turning away from sin and turning to the Lord for salvation from their sin; this is done with each persons freedom of choice, the freewill to choose whom each one is going to serve, namely, Christ or sin.
---Eloy on 11/15/06


Good morning Eloy, you said a lot but didn't give me Scripture to support you words. You gave me John 3:18-21 only. Now lets look at that passage very clearly. It doesn't sound hard to understand Eloy. "He who believes in Him is not condemn" Ok, now the passages began telling us that only the one's that believe are not condemn.cont. But he who does not believe is condemned already
---lisa on 11/15/06


2. Now this second part of the passage says very clearly that those who do not believe are condenmed already. Not that they will be condemn but are already. He is showin two classes of people. The one's saved believe, the one's not saved condemned already. Why is he condemned? because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God So he tells us that the reason they are condemned "already" is because they have not believed. And he goes on to say why they
---lisa on 11/15/06


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lisa, before Christ came, "and at the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands ALL humans every where to repent: because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the WORLD in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; he has given assurance to ALL, in that he has raised him from the dead. The Lord is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." Acts 17:30,31; II Peter 3:9.
---Eloy on 11/15/06


3. cannot believe, and the reason is because they love darkness. Now notice that later in John says, they are of their father the devel." and that they do the desires of devil. The only thing that can change them from that condition is what? ""For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light. So in order for them to come to the light since they are separated, is for God to come with His light to them. Clearly shows the two classes of people Eloy.
---lisa on 11/15/06


5. and the desires of your father you want to do." The whole of lost man is discribe very clear for everyone to see, stright from the Words of Christ. Lost man does not love Him, does not understand His
word, his desires is to the desires of the devil. Now how much more clear can that be? That is why many passages say, "if you have an ear" or "those that can hear" speaking about the belivers. I am sorry Eloy, but your answers are very much against Scripture.
---lisa on 11/14/06


6. I know you mean well, but you have a duty as a teacher and pastor, to look for yourself the Word of God. If you insist on believing what you wish, when Scripture, right from Christ is before you, then you have no excuse. I would hope that you take a good look before you make your mind up what you will do. It is so important Eloy. More then you will ever know. Why? Because it is the truth of the Gospel of Christ. If we cut one part, we might as well cut it all. Then it will save no one.
---lisa on 11/14/06


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Good exposition lee 1, but I do not see it as such. I'll get back to the "continuance" part later. First
the issue of salvation. What is it? Well, salvation as I see it is the understanding, acceptance and
implementation of the Kingdom of God. In this Kingdom Man has been converted to a new creature whose spirit
more and more each day seeks the state were it becomes the very Word of God, The Living Word, The Light of The World.
---Nana on 11/15/06


#2
Now you expounded that the parable of the seeds had to do with two types, namely the Saved and the Unsaved. Categorically yes

but specifically no. Categorically there were those within (to whom "is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God") and

those without who will arrive at those mysteries in their due time... Specifically there are four types "without" of which
the last type will be within at harvest time.
---Nana on 11/15/06


#3
About the hidden part; well, it was not really hidden but from who was not ready to find. Specifically Jesus said: Mark 4:12:

"That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be

converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." Here is a lesson about forgiveness. The lesson being that forgiveness is
---Nana on 11/15/06


#4
conditional. This goes against many a saying that "Jesus paid for the sins of all mankind". Do not take this as if I am
supporting "Limited Attonement" as it stands but that I see a statute of limitation on Jesus's gift, that I do. I believe
that unless Man opens his eyes, ears and understanding and keep them open; or opens his heart and keep it open, he can't lay
---Nana on 11/15/06


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#5
claim to that forgiveness. Otherwise, we could even sit at meal with the very Jesus and it would not mean anything (Judas).
From the reason for the parable I gather the following understanding: Grace is a reward and not an unmerited gift.
---Nana on 11/15/06


Eloy, I put down the passages down for you, John 6:44 clearly teaches that God has to draw you to Him. It begans, No one can come to the Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him. now Eloy, I don't know how much education you have but its pretty simple. "No one Can" the reason, because God has to draw them. And the one's that are been drawn are taught by God. Now comes, the next verse, Therefore everyone who had heard and learned from the Father."
---lisa on 11/14/06


2. those that are taught are the ones that are drawn and they what?, come to Me" Here Jesus is talking to a many Jews that had come from all places. They were not saved, they were regular people Eloy. Verse 37 clearly says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me. now who gives them to Christ? The Father. You said to me, " When God commands you to be righteous" God doesn't command anyone to be righteous, The righeousness comes from Christ when we are saved.
---lisa on 11/14/06


3. He commands us to be holy, but only for the believers. The unbelievers don't understand the things of God. How can they follow God commandments when they don't believe in God? You should know that already Eloy. Your concept of the lost person is very wrong. I don't see how you make sense of anything. Now listen to Jesus words to Jews, Here Christ explains thier condition again, why they cannot understand, Jesus said to them, 'if God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded
---lisa on 11/14/06


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4. forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? (now here Christ is saying they don't love Him, that the Father send Him, and they could not understand His words. you see Eloy a lost person cannot understand when Christ is talking, and he gives the reason why) Because you are not able to listen to My words, did you get that Eloy? they are not able to listen because, You are of your father the devil,
---lisa on 11/14/06


lisa, Christ gives life to all, but all will not accept his life. He did not die for only a select people, but he died for all the world, and his grace is for every single person. The judgment comes when we either personally accept Jesus' sacrifice for ourselves, or we personally reject him. If we refuse him, then Christ will also refuse us in heaven, onto the losing of our soul. But the choice remains for each person to make, for or against Christ, and our fate relies upon which choice we make.
---Eloy on 11/14/06


lisa, Christ did not say sinners are not able to do good because they are of their father the devil, instead he said and I also say, sinners refuse salvation because they love sin. All have the ability and freewill to choose Christ, even the children of the devil are able to repent, but they refuse to because they choose to sin rather than obey. Because obedience requires sacrifice of themselves, and to put the Lord's will ahead of their own, and they do not want to do this. Please read John 3:18-21.
---Eloy on 11/14/06


I don't understand what you mean Nana, by continuence. Maybe the passage in Mark can shed light to what you are saying. If you begin on verse 18, "Now these are the ones sown among thorns, (these are the lost) they are the ones who hear the word, and the cares of this world, the deceitfulnees of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful." What is happening here is that John Mark begans explaining the difference
---lee_1 on 11/14/06


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2. between two people, the Saved, and the unsaved. He begans to explain about the one's that sown among thorns; these are the unbelievers. they are the one's that hear the word but care more about money and material possessions but satisfy the desires of the heart. They also blind those who pursue them of eternal things, 1 Tim. 6:9,10. Then he speaks of the believers, those are sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit.
---lee_1 on 11/14/06


3. After identifying them he says, There is nothing hidden , and the purpose in keeping something hidden is so that one day it can be revealed. Jesus teaching was never intended to be just for the inner circle of followers. It would be the responsibility of the disciples to communicate the gospel of the kingdom to the world at large. (Matt. 28:19,20). And He goes on to say, Take heed what you hear.
---lee_1 on 11/14/06


4 With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear," (here is the distinction between the two people, the one's that can hear and understand are believers, the others do not understand when they hear the word of Truth.) more will be given. For whoever has, to him more will be given; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him,( those are the unbelievers.)that is talking about the hidden things of Christ.
---lee_1 on 11/14/06


5. "anyone who has ears to hear, let him hear" The one's who will understand spiritual things are the believers, and the message is to them. The lost will not understand what John Mark is talking about because they cannot discern God's Word. Just my understanding of that passage you gave. Thank you Nana for answering also. Just as Lisa has said.
---lee_1 on 11/14/06


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#1
Well lee 1, I did put down 64:5-6, it just got scrambled. My
understanding of "in those is continuance, and we shall be saved."
is that not all are as you attribute them to be. The way I see it
is like in:
---Nana on 11/14/06


#2
Genesis 19:21: "And he said unto him, See, I have accepted
thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city,
for the which thou hast spoken". Those were the dealings between God
and Abraham and who can deny that in Abraham was continuance???? Mind
you, even Jesus said only God is good, but we have always had at least
a remnant for whom we have been spared.
---Nana on 11/14/06


#3
For now I leave with this verse: Mark 4:22: "For there is nothing hid, which shall
not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should
come abroad."
---Nana on 11/14/06


I am Sorry Kathr, when I answer it seems as if I am answering you again so it was my mistake. Nana, I did put down Isaiah 64:4-7 so that you would not only put down what you did but to complete what Isaiah was saying in the whole context. It only shows the condition of man in its fullest and Paul made that clear also in discribing man's condition. No one righteous, no one that love's God, no one that does good, no one that seeks God.
---lee_1 on 11/14/06


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2. I don't believe there is any question as to the depravity of man while lost. Blind, doesn't hear, dead spiritually to the things of God, child of the devil, in darkness, unable to change, until God comes along and changes him, in order for him to see, hear, understand, and gives him the gift of faith and repentance, through the conviction of the Holy Spirit all on account of Grace. Man on his own will continue his path, unless God saves him.
---lee_1 on 11/14/06


Lee 1. I think you may have meant Nana on the Isaiah question.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/06


#1
Lisa,

Could you please also expound on the adverb "therefore" from the quote of John 6:43? Now, Here is
a similar passage like that one:
John 6:45: "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath

learned of the Father, cometh unto me."
---Nana on 11/14/06


#2
The way God created us is very unique in all of his creation. Because of that and as we have gone along, he has been teaching us from the very beginning. We all have been children and have been in a classroom or home school, whatever. We know that no matter how good the teacher, there are some that do not want to learn or can't. In John 6:43 there is no choice but to go back and find why "therefore" is used, there is less of a need with John 6:45.
---Nana on 11/14/06


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#3
The key is "hath learned". Students are types like the parable of the seed that fell in stones, sand and good soil. Our saving grace is that the vehicle of salvation is Love and that language is spoken of all Men! Good thing that is for out of the mind of one brother around here, just to understand "freewil" one would have to go and study St Augustine, Pelagius and so on! Eeek! Tell that to a simple man that mayhaps know not even how to read!
---Nana on 11/14/06


#4
So yeah, all knowledge is of God no doubt but we are the students and some of us perhaps will never graduate to see Christ.
A bit more on learning: Romans 10:17: "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." So we must study,
yeah all the time and listen too.
---Nana on 11/14/06


Eloy, I want to answer you this statement you put down, but you did not answer my question to you. Can you please answer but not with another question. And please give me Scripture to disprove what I put down for you. The reason people don't choose Christ on their own is because they are not able. The reason Christ gave is because they are of their father the devil. Are you saying those words are not true? And you are saying that man is able, when Christ says they are not?
---lisa on 11/13/06




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