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What Is A Calvanist

What is a five point Calvanist?

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 ---manuel on 9/19/06
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Has the law really been written in your heart? Covenant Promise!
2 Corinthians 3!
Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, *and with all thy mind*.

Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with *all thy mind*, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
---kathr4453 on 11/9/07


Donna2277, let us know if you're alright, ok?
Your friends, in Christ
---Raine on 4/12/07


If you will reread this blog, and examine the doublespeak, from then up until today, it will knock your socks off.
---Tim on 1/17/07


Just to clarify, although I have made it quite clear elsewhere, Alan of UK had to become quent5969, but will now be signing himself :
---AlanUK_quent5969 on 11/6/06


I find the ramblings here obsessive. So obsessive and abnormal, I'm embarrassed for the writer. The compulsion that's driving you is not compatible with the Holy Spirit. The devil is a driver. He'll drive you right into the ground.
---Joni on 11/6/06




Sister Sandra, I am not saying what you said I am saying. That, "all that came by free will are not saved or Christian" I have never said that or even mention that at all with anyone. I know in my heart that if a person has a true love for God, they are saved. For a person lost has emnity against God. The question on the subject is who gets the glory. God or man/
---lisa on 11/6/06


2. Just discussing things with you, I already acknowledge I am speaking to a Christian. So the charge of me thinking you are not save is not correct. What I try to explain is that it is God who saves, and that man in and of himself is unable to come to Christ unless God does something, to make him able to come. One of the reasons I believe this is, if man had one good thing in him while lost, than all the teachings of Paul would be incorrect. And since all Scripture is true and Holy,
---lisa on 11/6/06


3. It all connects. Paul taught about man in this way in Romans 3:1-18, He is speaking about Jews and Gentles under sin, "There is none righteous, no not one, there is none who "seeks" God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one" There throat is an open tomb, with their tongues they have practiced deceit" The poison of asps is under their lips"
---lisa on 11/6/06


4. "None seeks God" This verse clearly implies that the world's false religions are fallen man's attempts to escape the true God-not to seek Him. Man's natural tendency (fallen nature) is to seek his own interests (Phil. 2:21), but his only hope is for God to seek him (John 6:37,44). It is only as a result of God's work in the heart that anyone seek's Him (Ps. 16:8; Matt. 6:33). That is the reason I answer Sandra. From God's Word.
---lisa on 11/6/06


I can't prove that a lot of people were already angry when they come. That's an opinion. Another opinion is that a lot of people who weren't angry when they came to this blog... LEAVE angry. Bye.
---Donna2277 on 11/5/06




I'm not neurotic or anxiety-ridden, legalistic, or fearful of losing my salvation everyday. My church doesn't follow the 5-point program. I've noticed the passive-aggressive behaviors of those here who do. Snuggle up, then a frying pan to the head. Very interesting to watch.
---Joni on 11/5/06


Donna2277: That is presumption on your part. Many here seem to have very strong convictions in what they believe. I see this on many posts. Are we all carrying bad feelings from our past. I say not. Comments like that only add fuel to a fire, especially when it is obvious you too are defending your belief. Defend what you believe with scripture, rather than throwing stones, and presuming motives of all who are tired of having to defend themselves.
---SandraW on 11/5/06


Lisa, it is you who get angry and abuse people when they say they believe God gives us the choice of accepting or rejecting Him
---quent5969_the_Scot on 11/5/06


lisa --I also notice that many Christians are consumed by legalism. So many possible sins...they believe they could lose their salvation at any time. That's unbearable anxiety. Their defense? (IMHO)...believe they have become sinless. This blinds one to one's OWN sins, which precludes repentance, but causes obsession with the sins of others. It is all man-centered. Jesus said "Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whoever shall lose his life shall preserve it" Lk 17:33
---Donna2277 on 11/4/06


lisa -- I think some people are angry before they come to CN. Maybe they've had bad experiences with people of a certain belief...their anger just gets triggered here. They think they are "correcting false doctrine", but the spirit of their posts gives them away.
---Donna2277 on 11/4/06


lisa, what you are saying is God saved you. Those who believe they have free will are offended that you are gloating that you have something and they are wrong that didn't come to the Lord as you did. Your saying all who came of their own free will are deceived and are not Christians. I've read many of your comments. Then you trun it around and say "I don't understand why they are angry".
---SandraW on 11/4/06


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Thank you sister Donna. I was wondering why so many get so angry? I cannot understand what causes it. When someone says they believe that God saved us, why does it anger others? It would seem to me like everyone would be ok with that, but they are not ok with that. It is the same with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, when people talk about that subject all kinds of anger comes out. It's just not good at all. I just don't know why those subjects cause so much division.
---lisa on 11/3/06


I don't know exactly how much is "predestined", but I do know that no one becomes a Christian without hearing the Gospel. God does use his people to reach others. Predestination or not, I know that I am to share the way of Salvation. Freely I have received...I must freely give.
---Donna2277 on 11/3/06


R.A. I say to you, if you believe a man can save himself, why pray for God to bring him to the cross? If he is going to save himself, you really don't need to pray at all. God is leaving it up to you or you son. You should pray to your son instead of God. The reason Christians pray is because they don't know if their children will be saved or not. They don't know if God will have mercy on them or not. So we know and believe that it is God's will that will be done and not our own so we beg for them.
---lisa on 11/2/06


2. If you are under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and He is moving you, guiding you, teaching you about the things of God, you want to go to Christ and beg for mercy for you love ones or friends. We are commanded by Christ, not forced but commanded to spread the gospel, we don't know who will be saved or who will not, but we do know it is God who is doing the saving. Praise God, for if it was left up to me alone, I would still be lost.
---lisa on 11/2/06


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Sister Donna, you have answered great, not because you spoke on behave of our point but just in the way you did it. I think Linda has done great. I myself was a Christian for almost five years when I began to learn about the Sovereignty of God. I also had many questions, that I could not reconcile. The question of faith, blind, dead, answering the call of Christ. How could I answer if I was dead. So many other passages just didn't make sense to me.
---lisa on 11/2/06


2. I didn't know anything about Reform or those theologies. All I knew was what was been taught to us. In one class I asked the a long time Christian what had happened to one sister that hadn't been coming to church for about two months. He answered and told me she went back to the world. I was shocked. I didn't know what he meant. I asked him if she had lost her salvation, and he said yes. I was more shocked. I wanted her to come back so I called her over and over.
---lisa on 11/2/06


3. for a while I believed as many here that you could lose your salvation. Until one day I asked the pastor and he told me, You cannot lose it if you were born of the Spirit. That she would one day come back, because Christ would not let her fall all the way, if she was really born again. He gave me the passages, "There is no condemantion to those in Christ Jesus" That day understood that all the people that think you can lose your salvation were wrong. And that was more then half of the church.
---lisa on 11/2/06


4. Many passages are now clear to me. It gives me comfort to know my fate is in God's hands. That I am counting on Him with my life. That He will finish what He started in me. That I will fail but that He will always be there for me. That He will sustain me till the end. That I am really not deserving of that mercy. I find myself in on my knee's in complete surrender to Him. There's a lot God has to clean in me, it will continue till I die. There is nothing more wonderful to know He is in control.
---lisa on 11/2/06


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Johnnie and Lisa -- I'm not a "Calvinist"...belong to a "nondenominational" Bible Believing church (which I love). Before belonging to this church I had been a member (successively) of several Arminian churches, but I could never quite reconcile their views with scripture. Their eagerness to condemn is what finally pushed me toward a change. This blog was deja vu for me. I'm sorry if I re-acted badly.
---Donna2277 on 11/1/06


If you determine you're the elect; why would you ever need to offer up a prayer? You don't need to pray for your 'lost' loved ones' salvations. You don't need to pray for your 'lost' boss, or the child predator who lives down the street. You don't need to pray for the soldier on the battlefield in Iraq. That frees up your time to pray for what? No need to pray for a closer walk, you're already there.
---R.A. on 11/1/06


Thank you Johnnie, I don't know where you came from but I want to thank you for speaking for all of us. I know many don't believe and that is fine, to disagree. I don't mind that at all. I was one that disagreed many times and faught tooth and nails but never did I condemned anyone. I begin to learn more so I could be sure what I knew was correct, and later found out I was worng. It is not easy for others that have not studied the Soverignty of God to just take it just like that when all through
---lisa on 11/1/06


2. they have followed someone that taught them and were not led right. Then you have all the passages crossed, and cannot make sense on any passage, why? because they are interpreted wrong in the first place. Also, no one wants to hear they are wrong. I didn't myself when I started. I know studying takes time, each verse to be interpreted correctly. But we have to try. If we have our heart for the glory of God we will not fail.
---lisa on 11/1/06


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3. Again thank you brother for coming forward. Kathr, I know is a good person, but she has allowed her spirit to be troubled very much, that now when she answers she is not interested in answering a question, or to debate, for God's glory, she has another agenda. Her own spiritual life has changed because I see the difference everyday. I understand, but we should do everything with patience, compassion, respect, and love, for the glory of God.
---lisa on 11/1/06


Hello Alan, thank you for the question. I know those verses very well. If you read the whole context of the message you will see that on verse 25, "wise and prudent..babes" here Jesus is speaking of Jewish leaders that are ironically identified as wise and prudent and the followers of Christ as the infants. (18:3-10) yet God has revealed to those followers the truth of the Messiah and His gospel (13:10-17). verse 26, "It seemed good in Your sight" is an affirmation of the sovereignty
---lisa on 11/1/06


2. of God over all the affairs of men, and in the verse that follows, Christ claimed that the task of executing the divine will had been committed to Him-a claim that would be utterly blasphemous if Jesus were anything less than sovereign. verse 28-30 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavey laden" In these passage, notice that this is an open invitation to all who "hear"-but phrased in such a way that the only ones who will respond to the invitation are those
---lisa on 11/1/06


3. that do "hear" and are burdened by their own spiritual bankruptcy, and the weight of trying to save themselves by keeping the law. The stubborness of humanity's sinful rebellion is such that without a sovereignly-bestowed spiritual awakening, all sinners refuse to acknowledge the depth of their spiritual condition. That is why Jesus says in verse 27, our salvation is not incompatible with the free offer to all in v.v.28-30. verse 29 goes no to say,
---lisa on 11/1/06


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4. "you will find rest" yes, they will find rest from the endless, fruitless effort to save oneself by the works of the law (Heb. 4:1-3,6,9-11). It also speaks of a permanent relieve in the grace of God which is apart from works,(v. 30). So yes, Alan, I do have a good understanding of those passages. I saw where you asked the same question or just made a comment on another blog with the same quote. I was busy so I could not answer you then. I hope it helps you.
---lisa on 11/1/06


When a writer of one of the books in the Bible is writing, he is either quoting someone, Jesus, Moses, etc. When he is writing about something he himself saw, he is giving his understanding but is inspired by God to write what he is writing and seeing. Sometimes the writer speaks of only the things that he sees at the time as to the conditions and culture. When a writer is speaking in a letter, as Paul does, we have to see whom he is speaking to, yet all is inspired by God.
---lisa on 11/1/06


(b) in the case of the passages you gave, they are leading to chapter 12 where the verses begin to talk about the Sabbath. The keeping of the law and what it contained, Yet you have to remember this were Jews he was speaking to, the Pharisees and the disciples included together. So the whole context has to be read in order to find out what is happening and why he is saying what he is saying. It is easy as anything to disregard the context and just read one passages out of context.
---lisa on 11/1/06


(c) Matthew, constantly kept saying, like in verse 11:15, an others, He who has ears to hear, let him hear" because only the one's that were followers of Christ could hear and understand God's word. The others were not hearers of God's Word, they were lost.
---lisa on 11/1/06


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Larry, the only one's that bring discention are the one's apposed to the reform view. They cannot debate or discuss Scripture with respect. Does that tell you anything? This are supposely true Christians. No one is going to change another Larry, only God can change them. God doesn't need our help, He is able to do what He so desires. But, it is commanded of us to bring the gospel with love. What we speak is gospel, if someone doesn't agree, bring on the prove instead of stabbings in the back.
---lisa on 11/1/06


Kath -- Here is what you said:- You said(on 10/28)
"I was in a church and heard the pastor say (in the 80's) that the drought in Africa, where people were dying, that they deserved to die because they rejected God many moons ago and that was God's punishment". I don't know if the church was in Africa or not. Does it make a difference?
---Donna2277 on 11/1/06


Kath--Where are the "cold hearted Calvinists" who try to create division?. Show me Calvinist blogs that "take over and push their doctrine on people"? They respond to questions on some blogs, but "steal new born Christians away from Jesus Christ?" Elsewhere, I don't see the Presbyterians infiltrating other churches to force their doctrine..their numbers are declining! The Reformed churches are so un-intrusive the're almost clannish! ( "quotes" are YOUR accusations)
---Donna2277 on 11/1/06


Lee & Lisa God Bless you for attempting to enlighten our Arminian brothers and sisters that Jesus taught that they must be born again or they can NOT see the kingdom of God let alone desire it, because there is NO God seeker. You see they are still trying to claim some responsibility for there conversion. Yes, I said your conversion. Lee and Lisa have never said you people are lost they are only stating the order in which you were saved. And that is not "mean". ACTS 13:48
---Johnnie on 11/1/06


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If R.A, Kathr4453, Alan8869 and Larry could see that there Theology is inconsistent, ie: All can't mean All all of the time, If that were the case then All will be saved, because we are "all taught by God" and We are "all drawn by the Father" and Therefore all WILL come to Christ" and He will by no means cast us out" So to be consistent you would have to hold to universalism, Which I'm sure yall Don't. ACTS 13:48
---Johnnie on 11/1/06


Also, to say that "Calvinist" are mean is not "nice". You see Calvinist may come off as "mean" but I can reassure you that we to "work OUT our salvation with fear and trembling". And at the end of the day we "5-Point-Calvinist" want to see all peoples become whole hearted followers of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and not push people away. In Him Johnnie ACTS 13:48
---Johnnie on 11/1/06


Donna, I believe it's Calvinism that creates discord in the Church. I've been around for a long time, and Ive witnessed many a cold hearted Calvinist. What you may have encountered is someone who believes that once they are saved they're always saved, saying they're a Calvinist for that reason only. The disciples were first called "Christians". We belong to the Lord Jesus Christ, not a system of beliefs. Beliefs that are becoming more extreme, not only here but in all false teaching.
---Larry on 10/31/06


Lisa ... Surely you know Matthew 11 verse 28?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/31/06


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Donna: You said: *Kathr -- No I wasn't there (the church in Africa)*
Not wanting to create more issues, but, who said anything about a "church in Africa"?
I didn't say that...but somehow you must think I did. I said, were you there with me in my church when this comment was made?
---kathr4453 on 10/31/06


Apostasy is spoken by Paul many times. The Scriptures have repeatly warned of the danger of apostasy. "In the latter times" means the period from the first coming of Christ until His return. It is already here present and doing great damage to the Sovereignty of God but God will not let it go un-punished. Each one will get their Just reward. For God rules and not man. His plan has already been written, and the children of God will be separate from the those that teach against God.
---lisa on 10/31/06


2. All those that think they have the Spirit of God will find out they were only fooling themselves. The tares will be exposed and they are already been exposed everyday. Little by little their doctrines fall apart, and their gospel will also fall apart, and the day they realize they were wrong it will be too late.
---lisa on 10/31/06


#2
1 Tim 4:1 shows that demons are using men to teach the church. They consistently preach: its grace, its all God while stripping away the faith.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/06


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Jason 10/29 #3, That was very good. Thanks!!
Isn't it fun to find all those nuggets hidden in scripture? ***1 Corinthians 2!!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/31/06


"Each of the Five Points of Calvinism is designed to take away something of vital essence to the Christian Faith. Paul told us: some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of demons. The Calvinistic doctrine of atonement evolved through Roman Catholicism: St. Anselm; their doctrine of the sinning Christian evolved through St. Augustine, as did predestination. Doctrines that take away responsibility, righteousness, and holiness are of the devil".
---kathr4453 on 10/31/06


Jason, Yes, the servant is the Type of Holy Spirit. I do also believe as the Body of Christ the Holy Spirit indwells us,and we not only are the Bride, but as the Body of Christ, His servant as well, calling those through the preaching of the Gospel. Paul& Peter refer to themselves many times as the servant of Jesus Christ. They are also In Christ, The Church.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/06


Kathr -- No I wasn't there (the church in Africa) Consequently, I BELIEVED your account of what their pastor said. But later you revealed that he didn't actually SAY that..it was his attitude. That means the first thing you said was an "untruth".
---Donna2277 on 10/31/06


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Kath -- I knew the five points, in brief. I'd hoped that the "What is Calvinism" blog would further my understanding. But you took control and made it into "Whats WRONG with Calvinism... Disagreement Prohibited." I tried to get back to the subject by asking again, about the 5 points. Finally, got information elsewhere.I didnt see Calvinists "working their way into churches" to "take over" or "pull people away from Jesus" (your words).
---Donna2277 on 10/31/06


lisa, I believe the Church today, and the last spoken of, is the apostate church of today. You are welcome to your belief, and I will cling to mine. These truths in Revelation are revealed to God's True Children. It's not a systematic belief system.
We'll all stand or fall and be accountable on how we have studied to rightly divide the word of Truth. You don't have to answer for me, I don't have to answer for you. Isn't it wonderful to have a personal intimate relationship with the Lord?
---kathr4453 on 10/31/06


Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
---kathr4453 on 10/31/06


Donna: Once again, to accuse someone of untruth is serious. You were not there. "You" are making false accusations. There are those who do feel according to the 1st 2 chapters of Romans that God has completely cut off certain people. However, if that were true, then you, a Gentile would be permanently cut off yourself. Didn't your ancestors come from them, or did the stork bring you into the world? Many say today that Katrina was God's wrath. Innocent people died. God's wrath is not yet.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/06


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Kaths "memory problem" was forgetting the untruth she told. She relayed what a certain pastor said, then denied he said it. Normally, Id spare her the embarrassment of mentioning it, even though she misrepresented another Christian (OK, maybe she doesn't think he's a Christian). If Kathr showed
even hint of mercy toward those she disagrees with, I would cut her a LOT of slack. (She sounds like shes had some emotional wounds). But she must know that her attitude is not without repercussions.
---Donna2277 on 10/30/06


Larry --I think I do know many Calvinists. I wanted to learn a bit more about their beliefs. The only answers I could get had to do with how terrible they are, nothing objective. Kathr's description of Calvinists is unlike any one I know So maybe my freiends are not really "Calvinists". Maybe I don't know any true "Calvinists".
But I'll tell you one thing. ,I believe Calvinists are Christians...so why defame them....unless it's to foster discord in the Body of Christ.
---Donna2277 on 10/30/06


The thing you cannot understand and put together because you take a passage and read it literally as if the call is to the world, the one's that come are the one's that hear. Those who hear, the lost don't hear, there are dead to the things of God. You have to know that the one's lost are blind and cannot hear. God gives them the eyes to see and the ears to hear.
---lisa on 10/30/06


Kathrine, I'm sorry for being a tad confused, It's been a long day. Through the Revelation verses are you trying to prove 1: It is the Bride that is the Servant in Genisis or 2: you agree with me that in type the Servant is the Holy Spirit?
I agree the Bride also says come in Revelation but she is not bidding herself to come, it is another.
---jason on 10/30/06


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2. In Revelation 20:16-17, "Come" this is the Spirit's and church's answer to the promise of His coming. "Let Him" this is an unlimited offer of grace and salvation to all who desire to have thier thirsty souls quenched, see Isaiah 55:1,2. Jesus offers extended testimony on the authority and finality of the prophecy. He commissioned John to write it, but He was its author. The church's spoken of were the 7 church's of Asia Minor who were the book's original recipients (1:11).
---lisa on 10/30/06


Kathrine, Typology, Remember when the servant took the ten camels with him? Who or what do you believe they represent?
---jason on 10/30/06


3. A true interpretation of the context and who was involve and to whom the word was given to, has to be noticed or else you will think it is meant for you. This are not the first warning (Deut. 4:2; 12:32; Prov. 30:6; Jer. 26:2). These warning against altering the biblical text represent the close of the New Testament canon. Anyone who tampers with the truth by attempting to falsify, mitigate, alter, or misinterpret it will incur the judgements described in these verses.
---lisa on 10/30/06


Donna2277,In all fairness you have a memory problem yourself.
Donna Quotes:
* Im confused. I know many Calvinists*10/28What is a Calvinist
"What is a five point Calvinist."?10/29

*Well, maybe I've never met a Calvinist* 10/29 21st Century Calvinists

That was just a few days ago. How then can you be so judgmental? Or are you the She that soweth discord among brethren!
That was really uncalled for and had nothing to offer but petty cattiness.
---Larry on 10/30/06


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Jason, Actually both of these scriptures go together s Jesus was talking to the Church:
Revelations 22:
16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/06


Jason:
Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Well, who can argue with scripture!
---kathr4453 on 10/30/06


That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
---kathr4453 on 10/30/06


Kath - You said(on 10/28)
"I was in a church and heard the pastor say (in the 80's) that the drought in Africa, where people were dying, that they deserved to die because they rejected God many moons ago and that was God's punishment".
Now you write, Donna2277: He didn't say they deserved the drought. Just the attitued "Too bad"!

2 0f 7 things God hates(Prov 6:16-19): A false witness that speaketh lies and he that soweth discord among brethren
---Donna2277 on 10/30/06


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2. Kent, the Christian, born again of the Spirit, is saved by Grace, through faith. Grace is favor shown to the un-deserving, to the one's that are hell deserving. Grace is the antithesis of Justice, Justice demands the impartial enforcement of law. Justice requires that each shall receive his legitimate due, neither more nor less. Justice bestows no favors and is no respecter of persons. Justice, as such, shows no pity and know's no mercy.
---lee_1 on 10/30/06


3. All of the lost deserve justice. Grace has been defined as the unmerited favor of God; and since its unmerited, then none can claim it as their right. If grace is unearned and undeserved, then none are entitled to it. If grace is a gift, none can demand it, therefore, as salvation is by grace, the free gift of God, then He bestows it on whome He pleases. Because salvation is by grace, boasting is excluded and God gets all the glory.
---lee_1 on 10/30/06


4. The passages in Eph. clearly teach that we are saved by grace through faith. Grace the unmerited favor of God, and faith is the gift that comes with that grace. No one can have faith before he is saved. Because he is spiritually dead to the things of God. God has to by grace wake the person up and give him eyes to see and ears to hear, and a new heart. He recieves faith and can now depend on Christ as His Savior. While dead he can do nothing. He cannot even see Christ.
---lee_1 on 10/30/06


4. The lost person's condition is clearly taught all through the Bible. From Adam and Eve, with fallen nature. Separated from God, spiritually dead, and physically dying in the flesh. While we are now born again, with a new heart and The Holy Spirit in us, we still have the physical death to contend with. That is not gone. We are made rightesous by the death of Christ because as new Christians we now believe in a Christ we could not see before.
---lee_1 on 10/30/06


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5. Anyone can dispute the condition of man while lost, but it will not change because God told us. When our penalty is paid by the Atonement of Christ, we don't receive justice anymore. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ. The debt paid, fully. Not by our works but by the death and resurrection of Christ. That is clearly taught, though many here want to earn their salvation by how great they are. Thanks again for your question.
---lee_1 on 10/30/06


Alan, can you be more specific? Can you give me the passage exactly as you wrote it? I will give you my answer when you give me the passage you are talking about otherwise I cannot answer you out of the blue. I cannot make a comment on something because then I would be answering out of context of the passage. Every passage has a context and in order to answer correctly I have to know the whole context to be correct.
---lisa on 10/30/06


According to Romans 11, the true Elect, according to the Election of Grace are those who refuse to bend the knee to Baal.
That would include that old goat Calvin!
Now to those who think otherwise, we know who we are, and are not deluded with the doctrine of man. It's just that simple, we have no other god's before us!!! We worship God with all our heart, *mind* and soul.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/06


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