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Is Word Of Faith Doctrine False

Is Word of Faith doctrine biblical? The Name it, Claim it, GOD heals everybody, Prosperity Doctrine? WOF's BELIEF is that Jesus was "torn off the Cross at death, dragged by demons into hell, tortured for 3 days, God then said STOP. WOF says, Jesus DIED SPIRITUALLY. Is this in the BIBLE?

Moderator - Of course those beliefs mentioned are not Biblical.

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Dudley,
By your sparce comment, "This part?", you show that you understand English and therefore picked the Scriptures that validate your stance. Now, do you understand those same Scriptures in the context of the same chapter in which they are in? Then, explain to me how is it that Jesus did not bring peace and explain the nature of that sword. If I may, I encourage you to read a Godly article: apologeticspress (.) org/articles/534.
---Nana on 6/12/08


Most of all,99% of TV preachers are liars, they may speak all truth utill the end of their sermon, then they say"would you accept christ, as you savior... today where you are.. open your heart...will you?" THIS IS NOT THE INSTRUCTION OF MY LORD!It was- Mat 16:24, Mar 8:34, Luk 9:23 and Repent or Perish. Rev.12:9 is still true, isn't it.

Love is Agape!
Luke13:24
---Joe on 6/12/08


This part?
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I CAME not to SEND peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to SET a man at variance AGAINST his father, and the daughter AGAINST her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a MAN'S foe shall be they of his OWN household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me IS NOT worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me IS NOT worthy of me.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/12/08


"Jesus said, I Did'nt come into this world to save it, but to Divide it.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/11/08 "
Such "Divide" is not the cause for which Jesus came but rather it is an effect of his coming and the Gospel. Matthew 10 shows it.
---Nana on 6/12/08


Nana:

We must conclude that one cannot build a doctrine from a single verse, some passages seem to superficially contradict each other, but are part of a larger, more complex picture.

Friendship with the world is enmity with God, YET God so loved the world.

God does not want any to perish, YET Jesus spoke in parables "lest they understand and be converted"

God cannot lie, YET he sends strong delusion in order that some will believe the lie.
---StrongAxe on 6/11/08




Jesus said, I Did'nt come into this world to save it, but to Divide it.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/11/08


John 3:16>>The most misunderstood scripture in the whole Bible. The deplorable condition of those that persist in unbelief and wilful ignorance, [I love it], in wilful ignorance. They are condemned already. How great the misery of unbelievers is: they are condemned already. Sometimes you can see the misery on some faces if you look close enough, yet, they continue to go further down, down, into hell. No [it's not funny].
---catherine on 6/11/08


God cannot lie it is impossible what ever God says is truth no matter if it seems like a lie to us. He speaks those things that be not as though they were, If you can grasp the revelation in this you will have great faith.
other wise you will always be giving in to circumstances and doctors reports.
---Exzucuh on 6/11/08


John 3:17: "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. " What are we to make of that verse in light of God "SPECIFICALLY", "PREFER" and "RATHER" as used below?
---Nana on 6/11/08


Summed up, "Name it and Claim it" is 'USING God to get what you want' as though He is a magic wand or Alladin's lamp. God can and will provide very graciously whatever we want (because we're not content with what He has already given, we are ingrates), but we also have the choice to be content with what He decides we NEED (His grace is sufficient for me).

It is THEN that we do the works of God and rest in Him (John 6:28).
---greg on 6/11/08




Strong/X:Your'e wrong. You are undermining Jesus love like the people whose hearts had grown cold.Isa.You hear but do not understand See but not Percieve.Jesus employed simple things in everyday use so that they WOULD understand b/c He wanted them to understand with their HEARTS AND BE CONVERTED.To believe with your Heart and MIND is different than with your eyes.You see even with your understanding you misenterpret and lose the meaning.Did God come to destroy or save?This was Isiah'sprophecy Fulfilled
---Emcee on 6/10/08


"To deceive" is the same as "to lie", right? If they are synonymous then God cant deceive or lie, because they commandment is "thou shalt not lie" and God cannot sin. Tit 1:2 says ..."God, who cannot lie..."
So any conclusion we come to must fit within that context, that God cannot lie or deceive. Perhaps He sends strong delusion by simply withdrawing His Spirit, without which, we will be deceived. About the "lying spirit"...I dont know.
---Todd1 on 6/10/08


Emcee:

Jesus spoke in parables. The reason he did so was SPECIFICALLY so that people would NOT understand him - lest they believe and be saved (Mt 13:13-15). These are people that God would PREFER that they don't understand and be condemned, RATHER than understand so he can forgive them.
---StrongAxe on 6/10/08


God can send a strong delusion and does. He does it to purge the church of people who love lies. If they were not already full of sin, full of demons, they would recognize the deceiving spirit. Because they won't fall on their knees and repent, they are blind and continue to go awry.
---frances008 on 6/10/08


StrongeAxe is not wrong the scriptures are clear God sent a lying spirit to Ahab to deceive him into going to war so he would be killed.
---Exzucuh on 6/9/08


Strong/X::Read your post of Jn/3 you state God does exactly the same thing-Decieve????read my reply .Its mans comprehension and failure to read the whole chapter on the subject.the accusation is false and wrong.
---Emcee on 6/9/08


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Emcee:

The scripture I quoted is one in which God says he would "send strong delusion". Those aren't my words - God said it first, I just quoted them here.

(Also, I am a bit unclear as to the difference between "the truth" and "the TRUTH" in your message - what difference does capitalization make?)
---StrongAxe on 6/9/08


Jesus was not ever tormented by demons and the only death he had to experience was physical.
He had to pay for sin of the Flesh there is no sin of the Spirit. He took the keys to death hell and the grave and took those in captivity
captive.
---Exzucuh on 6/6/08


S/AXE:: God does not decieve = tells lies. YOUR Interpretation is at Fault.The truth can be said in less than 85 words.A greater length is required to cover the TRUTH.You will be held accountable.
---Emcee:: on 6/6/08


Emcee:

I usually only quote the minimal verses due to the cramping 85-word limit. Yes, I did read the context.

My point is that God does deceive in some contexts. That he does it only to reprobates does not change the fact that he DOES do it.
---StrongAxe on 6/6/08


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The gospel has nothing to do with money, It is all about faith, it is not about what you do for God, It is about obedience by faith to do what he says to do, the obedience proves your
faith and it is impossible to please God without it.
---Exzucuh on 6/5/08


money is the root to all evil, ---KReid-Lewis on 6/5/08

KReid...the Bible says it's the LOVE of money, not money that is the root of all kinds of evil.

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
---Holly4jc on 6/5/08


S/Axe::In order to get the true meaning one must read the whole article.To take one sentence and accuse God of Being deceptive.Read verses leading up to the V/11 esp V3,4.8-12.One must interpret with firmness and fairness.God does NOT decieve.Help is only for those who seek forgiveness and attain attrition in time, with fear and trembling.
---Emcee on 6/5/08


PJSmith::The illustration of Faith is in Mark10:46-52 also on Mattamd luke
---Emcee on 6/5/08


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Read the bible. Read Mathew, Ephesians, Romans, the new testament one book at a time. Words do have power, the comment about the million dollars, money is the root to all evil, God will bless as He feels. Sometimes preachers add to things to make it a little humorous is this wrong...Revelations 22:19. Scripture also makes us aware that we are not to be too high minded, and don't forget how to be common with people. Be ye not conformed to this world but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.
---KReid-Lewis on 6/5/08


.strongaxe, there is no "but" to what I say.
---Eloy on 6/4/08


Emcee:

Yet it is strange that God strongly condemns those who deceive (as Satan is the father of lies) - yet there are times when he does exactly the same thing himself:

2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie"

(Which brings up a disturbing question: is deception intrinsically wrong, or just forbidden to us mere mortals? This can lead to a slippery slope - some cults believe in lying to unbelievers.)
---StrongAxe on 6/3/08


PJ.Smith:: The word of Faith is in the bible.but is the painter at fault for tarnishing the word? or the word at fault for tarnishing the painter.By their fruits you shall know them.People who make false statements will be held accountable.To deliberately lead someone astray falls to the axe of Almighty God.Vengence is mine says HE.
---Emcee on 6/3/08


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In 1John 5:14-15 the will of God is the word of God.(Jeremiah 1:12, Isaiah 55:11)
The word ask or "aiteo" literally means "demand for something due".

It isn't saying ask God will He, but with confidence in His word requesting/demanding it of Him. We are the righteousness of God in Christ & everything that belongs to God & Jesus belongs to us.(2Corinthians 5:21 & Romans 8:17)
---Rickey on 6/3/08


2 Corinthians 4:13-14 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore (have I spoken,) we also believe, and (therefore speak,) Knowing that he who raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

If you have Faith you will speak your Faith or your substance of things hoped for will have no evidence of things seen.
---Exzucuh on 6/3/08


Eloy:

That is true, but what IS "right faith"? How many have it?

The reality is, most Christians pray for things they don't get. (God is NOT a genie in a bottle). This means either most Christians have it wrong (with either insufficient faith or wrong faith), or there is more to it than simply "ask anything in my name and I will do it". Other theological issues like "faith vs. works" are also more ambivalent than one-verse answers like John 3:16.
---StrongAxe on 6/3/08


Ramon:

Yes. And Jesus also said that there will be those who will say "Lord, lord, didn't we perform many miracles in your name?" and he will say "I never knew you!"
---StrongAxe on 6/3/08


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"Name it, and Claim it", "Blab it, and Grab it", is not correct. The Right faith is: "And this is the confidence that we have in him, that when we ask any thing according to his will, he hears us: and when we know that he hears us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we asked of him." I John 5:14,15.
---Eloy on 6/2/08


The Catholic Church by the Vatican has a similar false miracle that they worship today that I saw. It's an angel that supposely was painted gold. The people now bow and hail Mary 32 times...kiss a rock by it....Moderator on 5/27/08

Moderator, please find out the facts, before putting them on RCC. Just because people are saying 'Hail Mary' and are kissing a rock does not mean that VATICAN SUPPORTS THIS. There are thousands of stuff people have stamped 'RCC APPROVE', it doesn't mean it is TRUE.
---Nicole on 6/2/08


*Really? Even though it is his [the Devil] nature to steal, kill[...]? Even though to heal someone would be dividing his own kingdom? *

Yes for three reason:

1) Pharaohs magicians performed miracles (Exdous 7:11-12)

2) The Antichrist and false prophet will perform miracles (Revelation 13:12-17)

3) The Bible speaks of counterfeit signs and wonders (Mat 24:24, etc).

Holy Scriptures teaches that not every miracle and healing comes from God. Also read 1 Corin 11:13-15
---Ramon on 5/31/08


Really?
I've Never read in the Bible where Satan Healed People,
Where is that in the Bible?
"THE" AC is the only one i've read about being Healed...
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/31/08


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Linda:

Daniel 8 talks of an evil king who "by peace will destroy many". Matthew 24:24 says false Christs and false prophets will do miracles that will "deceive the very elect, if that were possible".

The devil is quite capable of doing seemingly good things (losing the battle) towards the end of winning the war.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/08


" Most of us know Satan will heal people to confuse them."

Really? Even though it is his nature to steal, kill, and destroy? Even though to heal someone would be dividing his own kingdom? That makes a lot of sense. I guess he could save someone too for the same purpose since "saved" (sozo) includes healing and prosperity, although certainly not for the purpose of greed and stagnation.
---Linda on 5/30/08


Rob:

Revelation 22:18-19 put a curse on everyone who adds or takes away from the words of "THIS PROPHECY" - namely, Revelation. While there are other verses that warn against adding to or altering God's word in general, this isn't one of them. This was part of the single document - the scroll of Revelation. Combining all the books together into one was not done until many hundreds of years after that was written.
---StrongAxe on 5/29/08


Rob:

The Bibles we use are translations, so most words (except names) are not in the original, but rather English words that are just fairly close translations. Also, there are many words that we use in religious terms that do not occur in the Bible at all (theology, trinity, exegesis, transubstantiation, transfiguration, rapture, monogamy, polygamy, etc.) but whose concepts may be found there indirectly (and many others that aren't, such as pulpit, pews, steeple, etc.)
---StrongAxe on 5/29/08


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Yes the WOF movment is false. Many are attracted not to JESUS but to the get rich teaching. When they do not get rich they feel GOD has cheated them not the false preacher.

Those willing to preach to many with itching ears are growing.
---Samuel on 5/29/08


I thought you meant preachers out there, not on here.
---catherine on 5/29/08


Elizabeth, you wrote, "Don't add anything and don't take anything away and you will not be deceived nor will you be deceiving."

Excellent advice. Biblical scholars agree that the bible was edited and added to many, many times. Some of these alterations were innocent, some were not. Therefore, it is up to us to use our common sense to discern the truth.
---deb on 5/29/08


Elisabeth, 5/28, your anger shows in your writing. I can see why the Moderators fail to post for you.
You said. ""I AM" the Righteousness of God." Humm..... an honest Christian would have said, "I possess the righteousness of God through Christ."
So do you think the moderators are unkind, dishonest and closed minded?
We have seen many "flash in the pan," self righteous, never satisfied people come and go in the past. Just a matter of time.
---Elder on 5/29/08


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Do your own research, catherine. Moderator gave you the links and all of the names will be there for you to identify with the topic of discussion.
---Emily on 5/29/08


Catherine, I named some names and the things I have heard these people say with my very own ears.. Scroll down the page and you will see their names.
---Rob on 5/28/08


No! None of the things that you mentioned are true.>>>If these preachers are preaching this stuff, I want their names.
---catherine on 5/28/08


StrongAxe, the question I have is this.

If "SUICIDE" is not a Biblical term, and it is not mentioned in the Bible, why do they say and use it? Revelation 22:18-19.
---Rob on 5/28/08


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Rob:

About their "Jesus committed suicide" claim - what they seem to be talking about is that Jesus laid down his life willingly, nobody else took it from him.

(Some might call this "suicide", although that is not a biblical term, as the Bible makes no mention of it. The same notion could apply to soldiers who willingly sacrifice their lives on the battlefield. These do not imply the baggage we traditionally associated with this word: sinful, selfish, hopeless, etc.)
---StrongAxe on 5/28/08


I looked up the third wave, it included all of the emergent church evangelical prophets, every one of them.
Would it be correct to assume the emergent church is ushering all of the false miracles, false teachers, back in that you talked about in the past?
---Emily on 5/28/08


Elder,Which Greek Concordance did you use?
And what wrong info are you talking about?Offense is a personal problem.Does the Word of God offend you?FYI-"I AM" the Righteousness of God and God's Word is Superior.Do you have a problem with that?Are you jealous that I found out about a Bapticostal?You are a bit extreme concerning the "Kind", "Open" and "Honest" aren't you?
Shanah Tova
---Elisabeth on 5/28/08


One problem with false signs and wonders is this: (This also includes well-meaning false doctrines, such as much end-time hysterical date-setting which is subsequently shown to be false after the dates have passed)

Even though they may genuinely bolster peopls's faith, when they are proven false, those same people's faith may end up being shaken and damaged - and they're worse off than they were before. As such, the false signs and doctrines end up doing more harm than any good they may have done.
---StrongAxe on 5/27/08


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Emily,

Look up "Third Wave Movement false prophets", etc. to learn about the movement in detail. I have witnessed in person many of these people and the movement is 100% demonic and false.
---Moderator on 5/27/08


It's happening all over the world, including the U.S.
It happened in a bible study that I attended without a pastor/preacher/teacher or evangelist present. It was a group of women worshipping the Lord in connection with a food closet for the poor. The women run the food bank, and the poor come in for groceries.
---Emily on 5/27/08


I know of another similar situation in our state that experienced the same kinds of miracles.
No organized meeting, miracles. Poor people, living in cars.
What is the third wave you are talking about?
---Emily on 5/27/08


Emily,

These people that you mention are part of a church or some group, otherwise you wouldn't even know that they exist. This gold filling thing is part of the third wave which is a formal movement not informal as you are suggesting. It is a demonic movement.
---Moderator on 5/27/08


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One more, moderator for discussion's sake.

The poor people aren't worshipping their gold fillings but are now worshipping Jesus Christ. They are happening during praise and worship at bible studies, without even a pastor/preacher/leader present. There's no one to take the glory but God. They're thankful because without them, their teeth were going bad, in some cases, back teeth were missing altogether.
---Emily on 5/27/08


There have been people receiving gold fillings while living a homeless existence without another soul around. How can we say that it's all demonic when these people are finding Jesus Christ through the miracle?
They weren't following anyone, were all alone, but are now finding Jesus Christ.
---Emily on 5/27/08


There are miracles happening in motorcycle gangs that have no connection to any church, and they're finding Jesus Christ, too.
There are reports of miracles breaking out where no preacher, no WoF leader can take any of the credit or benefit from them monetarily. How can we say they're all demonic?
---Emily on 5/27/08


No one is bowing down to a gold filling, but they are finding Jesus Christ and going back to share Jesus with their gang members, friends, etc. These people are unchurched or unlearned, but are finding Jesus Christ.
Isn't that the true test of a miracle - that it points others to Jesus Christ?
---Emily on 5/27/08


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Word of Faith #5

For years, I have watched Word of Faith teachers on television just to see what they will say.

Through the years, I have heard them talk about many things, yet I have never heard any of them talk about SALVATION.

They claim to be sharing the GOSPEL, but the GOSPEL they are sharing is not the GOSPEL OF CHRIST JESUS, Galatians 1:6-12.
---Rob on 5/27/08


I find it interesting to read the replys from the Moderator and the other writers. As for me, I don't know much about Word of Faith since I have to wear my own armor and not someone else's religion. But I also find it interesting that Satan has used scripture himself and what would keep him from continueing to do this? And wouldn't it be interesting if Satan had actually used new testament writers to make Jesus' testimony confusing? Most of us know Satan will heal people to confuse them.
---james on 5/27/08


Revelation: There will be no denominational organizations in heaven. My experiences with denominations is this.An organization and group of people who are close-minded to the whole truth, who have their own belief systems,and are devided bec of it. They all believe the same way,believe only what they want to, and pick out the Scriptures that they like or dislike.And they live life accordingly.The reason why they do not like the truth is bec it requires change.
---Elisabeth on 5/27/08


Elisabeth, "Christian" comes from a Greek word meaning, "Belonging to Christ" not follower of Christ. Many followed and was rebuked by Him. They wanted glory but did not belong to Him.
Are you a false teacher because you gave wrong information?
I take offense how you try to show your "Superior Righteousness." What makes you so important that any moderator has to defend his/her faith for your pleasure?
Have you noticed how kind, open and honest they have treated you?
---Elder on 5/27/08


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Word of Faith #4

In the spring of 2003, in a sermon entitled "I HAVE SEEN THE STAR", and using what is written in Matthew 2:7-8, T.D. Jakes made the following statement.

"I AM NOT CONCERNED WITH PREACHING ABOUT CHRIST, BECAUSE I AM MORE CONCERNED WITH PREACHING ABOUT THE STAR. THE PEOPLE OF GOD ARE TO BE WALKING IN DARKNESS SO THEY CAN FOLLOW THE STAR."

This goes against what is written in John Chapter Three.

---Rob on 5/27/08


Gal 1:8-9 If even an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him or her be accursed {anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment}!If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us],let him or her be accursed{anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment}!This is referring to false teachers and preachers who teach and preach another Gospel.
---Elisabeth on 5/27/08


There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for "Anyone" to ever preach or teach anything other than God's Word..It is so simple...Don't add anything and don't take anything away and you will not be deceived nor will you be deceiving.We have the Holy Spirit as soon as we ask for Him and receive Him.He is the "Teacher".If you have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit you will not have the Power that you need to live the Victorious "Christian Life".
---Elisabeth on 5/27/08


Word of Faith #1

The Greek word for FAITH is PEITHO. It means to convince by argument what is true or false. A persons faith is based on what they believe, whether it be truth or a lie.

Here are some facts of what I have seen with my own eyes, and heard with my own ears,what Word of Faith preachers say.

People need to decide for themselves if these things are based on God's Truths, or Satan's lies.
---Rob on 5/27/08


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Word of Faith #2

"I AM GOD", Kenneth Copleland.

"GOD CANNOT DO ANYTHING HERE ON EARTH UNLESS WE FIRST GIVE HIM OUR PERMISSION", Benny Hinn and Myles Munroe.

"IF YOU WANT TO RECEIVE A 100 FOLD BLESSING, YOU NEED TO GO TO THE PHONE RIGHT KNOW AND SOW A $1,000 SEED LOVE OFFERING", Marcus Lamb and Mike Murdock. (This goes agianst what is written in Acts 8:20-23).
---Rob on 5/27/08


Word of Faith #3

"IF YOU WANT SOMETHING, YOU NEED TO SPEAK IT INTO BEING. IF WHAT YOU SPEAK DOES NOT MATERIALIZE, IT IS BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF FAITH", Paula White, Marcus Lamb, and Mike Murdock.

Using what is written in John 10:17-18, Frederick K.C. Price made the following statement. "JESUS DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS BECAUSE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE AND CALVARY, JESUS COMMITED SUICIDE".
---Rob on 5/27/08


Elder,
Again,Christian means follower of Jesus "the Christ"..It means believing God and "His Word" The True Word of God, The Holy Bible the "Jesus Book" Adding and taking away from God's Word is teaching another Gospel.It is called deception.This is false religion that "Jesus" has so warned us about.The Word of God has much to say about what happens to those who add and take away from "His Word".It is that plain and simple.
---Elisabeth on 5/27/08


God warns us all about deception.And, God's Word teaches the "True born-again Christian" how to recognize the deceivers.Gal 1:7-Not that there is [or could be] any other [genuine Gospel],but there are [obviously] some who are troubling and disturbing and bewildering you [with a different kind of teaching which they offer as a gospel]and want to pervert and distort the Gospel of Christ {the Messiah} [into something which it absolutely is not].To be cont'd
---Elisabeth on 5/27/08


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Elisabeth,

There are no holiness pentecostal moderators at ChristiaNet. I am as mentioned closest to Assembly of God. As Elder stated, there is more than one moderator.
---Moderator on 5/27/08


Emily,

I firmly believe the gold filling happenings are demonic. There are many false miracles and false teachings in the church today. They are frequently used to validate a false pastor or false doctrine that in the end leads God's people away from God.
---Moderator on 5/27/08


Emily,

The Catholic Church by the Vatican has a similar false miracle that they worship today that I saw. It's an angel that supposely was painted gold. The people now bow and hail Mary 32 times as they climb to the statue and then kiss a rock by it. Does this draw one closer to the true living God? Not the God I serve.
---Moderator on 5/27/08


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