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Pentecostal Church Got Saved

Did you know I met a missionary the other day who said there was a pentecostal church where he worked and the whole church got saved. WOW!

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 ---Rev_Herb on 9/22/06
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Pour ASHLEY does not know her word.IF u want to preach the word pull out ur Bible & verify what u are going to say. The Bible says in Mark 16:17 (Jesus is speaking): And these signs will be given to those who believe: in My name they wil cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues.

Thats the word, unfortunately for u, u won't receive those gifts cuz u don't believe. Jesus said for those who believe, not SOME as u said.
---sara on 6/16/07

would satan trying to counterfit something lead you away from God and how he moves???

If satan is trying to counterfit what God is trying to do, doesnt that mean that what God is trying to do there is kinda significant???
---mark_B. on 6/15/07

Ramon-I have not seen anything that could not be explained by bio-chemical means. God does manifest Himself scripturally-as discribed is humble,- More often as a still small voice and not a big show, not as the greatest show on earth.
---MikeM on 6/15/07

Ramon: I was only saying what I witnessed with my own eyes. You can take that any way you wish. Facts speak for themselves. How could everyone say it was of God if this woman could not possibly have the H.G. with her after her actions only moments before. It is not to say everyone cannot have a spiritual experience, but discern the difference and never take things at face value. As one lady said, a woman spoke in tongues and a man said she was cursing God. Satan is a master illusionist too you know.
---ashley on 6/14/07

*I watched people abuse their children. . .[in]a P.C. How could they be filled with the H.G. when only moments earlier, they were filled with the spirit of Satan*

Ashely, and that account for every Pentecostals in the the World? Do you admit and believe that there are Pentecostals who in fact experience true baptism in the Holy Ghost and true speaking in tongues and are being used by God?

Like MikeM, you doubt everything that happen in any given Pentecostal Church? Is this correct?
---Ramon on 6/14/07

MikeM. You avoid answering my questions. Figures.......
---Ramon on 6/14/07

Gail. Intersting... Mormons don't speak in tongues, its bio-chemial. lol. Wonder if MikeM recored his Mormon friends? He likely will deny it be bio-chemial.
---Ramon on 6/14/07

Well Ashley. For one thing: You have no right to assume someone is not genuinely speaking in tongues. This is none of your business. We are to not doubt God and how he works with another soul. This is not your business and gives you no right to condemn them. You are not God. I refuse to let anyone be a stumbling block to me, because of their behavior or lack of. I suggest you do the same. Put your focus on Jesus.Where it should be.
---Robyn on 6/14/07

Ashley people who dont have gift of healing can still be used to heal others...people who prophesy dont have to have gift of prophecy...its like if you have the gift you are expected and see much greater results than people who dont...
Does this make sense...its hard to do it on a blog
---mark_B. on 6/14/07

Some mormons speak in tongues, you bet they do. Those would have to be counterfeit, wouldn't they?
---Gail on 6/14/07

Robyn: The gift of tongues is not blabbering in different tongues for the glory of man to show others how great you are. It is a still small voice where you understand what someone is saying, even though you don't speak the language, it lets others understand when they do not speak your language. It allows you to learn new languages to communicate. Jesus said: "And he gave some the gift of tongues, the gift of prophecy, the gift to heal. NOT EVERYONE.
---ashley on 6/14/07

2- I now speak many languages and have the ability to understand what people say, not by my own learning, but because I listen to the Holy Ghost. I did not learn how to speak to others through schooling. I did it on my own with God's help. As I said in the blog not posted. I watched people abuse their children and turn the air blue in profanity when I visited a P.C. How could they be filled with the H.G. when only moments earlier, they were filled with the spirit of Satan. you cannot serve two masters.
---ashley on 6/14/07

In the 1980's some big time preachers were brought down with tape recorders, and other devices. One was being sent messeges by his wife to an electronic ear-phone. He went bankrupt in a big scandel. The irony is he is back in 'business' this time marketing 'prayer cloths' and 'Dead Sea healing water.' He again is making millions, Peter Popov. Even when confronted with objective reality people do not learn.
---MikeM on 6/14/07

Well pray for those Pentecostal don't talk abou them
---Betty on 6/14/07

When you repent and the Lord fills you with his spirit and you speak in tongues thats the evedincs that you received his spirit no man can tame the tongue but the Lord and when he comes in he wil speak threw you and it is in tongue's
---betty on 6/14/07

MikeM and Ashely. You both really need to read the Bible. You doubt every experience as not being by the Holy Spirit but some "bio-chemical".

You both need to get baptize in the Spirit and experience His power so you won't doubt. But Like Robyn said, if you doubt it, you can never experience it.

I feel sad for both you. What is only the Pentecostals that are fakes? Who are these "people" that experience true baptism in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues?
---Ramon on 6/13/07

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#2 Do you believe that some within the Pentecostal Churches do in fact experience baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT? Have you recorded EVERY Pentecostal Church on video in the world and concluded that what they experience are in fact bio-chemical in nature? Every Person? Every man? Every women?

*Acts records manifestations of the spirit, not as seen today*

Can you please explain further using the Book of Acts?
---Ramon on 6/13/07

Ashley: I feel for you and others who do not believe in The Holy Spirit and His works . You need to read your bible more and then you can hold an intelligent conversation concerning God's Holy Spirit. You need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit,also .Just because you do not believe, does not mean the Holy Spirit does not work through others. He's never going to work through you anyway, because you are a doubter and you hinder your own blessings. God have mercy on your soul.
---Robyn on 6/13/07

*Have you not read the scripture that says "And he some the spirit of prophecy, gift of healing, gift of tongues etc.*

Please find the Scripture in the Holy Bible that said that. Thanks

* I watched a lady cursing in profanity, beating her children...."

So you blame every Pentecostals because of what "this lady" did? Let me tell you something. I do not believe that every experiences are from God. I never said that every Pentecostals experience are from God.
---Ramon on 6/13/07

#2 But the bottom line is this. The Holy Spirit does baptize a person and speaking in tongues is biblical. Obviously, there are satanic "counterfeits". And no one here said they aren't. But Ashely, there are many people within the Pentecostal Churches that ARE being used by God.

You cannot come here and say that all experience that Pentecostals experience are Satanic in nature. Besides not having any biblical passage to back you up, it just plain ignorance.
---Ramon on 6/13/07

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*The Bible clearly teaches the baptism of the Holy .. .but what is seen today is induced by bio-chemical reactions.*

Do you believe that there are some people that truly get baptize in the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues?

What about the Apostles and the Early Church? Using your reasoning, they too experience "endorphins" running through their bodies.

Why the Pentecostals? You just can't accept that people can experience the gifts found in the Bible BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.
---Ramon on 6/13/07

The trouble with most pentecostal churches is that they have lost there first love, Jesus Christ. They are into thereselves, there feelings and the almighty DOLLAR.
They dont, or very few, have the real power of God.
---duane on 6/13/07

Ramon: Have you not read the scripture that says "And he some the spirit of prophecy, gift of healing, gift of tongues etc. Did you catch that SOME. not all. I watched a lady cursing in profanity, beating her children and then once inside the church she was laughing and speaking gibberish. How can someone filled with satan moments before suddenly be filled with the Holy Ghost. Get the facts and don't believe everything you see or hear. The Holy Ghost will NOT dwell in unholy temples or bodies.
---ashley on 6/13/07

2-sinning against the H.G. You know something is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. You then rebel against that knowledge. example: you know its wrong to kill someone or commit adultery and then you do it anyways willingly. the spirit that taught you it was wrong is grieved and you have just blaphemed against the Holy Ghost. there is no forgiveness in this life or the next. know what you are talking about before you make accusations against others. with the same judgment you judge, you will also be judged.
---ashley on 6/13/07

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I have seen people jerk, their eyes roll back, twist and contort in what I would call Fruedian fashion. This all is bio-chemical, more in line with Dionysis than ACTS. They used to put sawdust on the floor so people would not hurt themselves and when rolling in it they often looked like breaded chickens. My 'feeling' at the time was that this was a satanic manifestation. Does this nuttiness glorify God?
---MikeM on 6/13/07

MikeM...why cant God use what he created (endorphins) to give you an experience eh???
I mean he put it there hes goign to use ti when he wants...we cant ourselves inciate endorphins being put into our blood, its not a voluntary action...but God can...
And how do you know that what happened in Acts 2 that endorphins werent used???
---mark_B. on 6/13/07

I do not believe the Holy Spirit is an endorphine, but what pentacostals experience is. Acts records manifestations of the spirit, not as seen today. Its unclear who the 'you people' are.

If one is to broadbrush ALL science as "carnal minds" then not only a rejection of what science proves concerning endorphines, then to be consistant one should not go to any doctor, as medicine is the product of the carnal mind, science.
---MikeM on 6/13/07

The Bible clearly teaches the baptism of the Holy, speaking in tongues, but what is seen today is induced by bio-chemical reactions.

The facts do not conflict with the Bible. The Bible also says do not suffer a witch to live, does that verse hold the same weight? Its the Bible vs. Man. "Bio-chemical" reactions have been measured, catagorized. I am not afraid of the Bible, or science. If such studies are delusional, then so is all of science.
---MikeM on 6/13/07

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Ashely. You too need to the read the Bible. Read the Book of Acts and Paul's Letters. The Apostals experience the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues as do the Penetcostals today. To say that every experience within the Pentecostal Church is from the devil is a direct contradiction of Sacred Scriptures and you both have just basphemy the Holy Spirit. God have mercy on both you.
---Ramon on 6/13/07

Mike, maybe that is what happens to the human body when people get in that spiritual state of mind or (when the spirit is upon them. maybe? That could be a fair conclusion. I still say that tongues was a worldly language in Acts and Corinthians. A miracle indeed. The instructions in 1 Cor is a little vague to change it from the way it was in Acts. Obviously it can be believed either way in Corinthians or there wouldn't be room for debate. It's a choice we all have to make.
---DANNYBOY on 6/13/07

Mike made a valid point. record the service and see what happens. I have attended services where people have spoken Russian, French and Tagalog and everyone went, it is of God. I speak those languages. it was not gibberish, but a real language of the world. It was easy to translate for others in the pentacostle church. When many though began shaking and screaming it was a heavenly language, I left quickly. satan was evident and overtook the service, not God.
---ashley on 6/12/07

MikeM. Like I said, the Holy Spirit is not an endorphine. What the Book of Acts record and what Paul taught are not endorphines running in your body, but the Holy Spirit. But then again, I won't expect you people to understand this. Listen to the Bible not men!

Pentecostals believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit because the Bible said so. They believe in tongues (etc) ALL EXPERIENCE BY THE APOSTLES AND THE EARLY CHURCH

So no MikeM, I won't listen to you, but the Bible.
---Ramon on 6/12/07

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#2 I don't care what some "guy" say about a subject. It's what the Bible states. Doesn't the Bible said that "carnal" minds only receive "carnal" things? I'm not saying that all experiences are from God, but the Bible clearly teaches the baptism of the Holy, speaking in tongues, etc.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues were experience by the Apostles and the Early Church. This was the Holy Spirit, yet you say that now its some "bio-chemical".
---Ramon on 6/12/07

#3 Your "facts" doesn't seem to stand with the Bible my fellow. Your question is not too tough, the Bible states something else my friend. What Pentecostals experience is NOT "bio-chemical" in nature according to the Bible. I know MikeM, you avoid using Scriptures because you know it disagree with your "studies".

Since I can't use Scriptures to refute your claims because you won't answer me, I will leave you with your own delusions.
---Ramon on 6/12/07

Gail-Again, I attack no one personally,(ad hominum) I deal with the issues themselves, the ISSUE ITSELF I raise is avoided. The issue is what pentacostel's experience is bio-chemical in nature, the realease of endorphines in the bloodstream causing the effects pentacostals, and those of others religions experience. I have offered medical evidence, quoted studies, so I will conclude my question is too tough.
---MikeM on 6/12/07

Ramon- Your reasoning is circular. Its the old emporers new cloths, "You cant see the fine cloths (pentacostal experience) as you are not one of us" I am sure you know the story.

I avoid using scriptures as it is self-serving, I could defend slavery, war, witch burning, anything with a few Bible verses, I CAN do that, but choose not to twist scripture to defend failed social policy, or dogma.

my points are not ideas, they are scientific fact, and seem to stand, do they not?
---MikeM on 6/12/07

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One 'experiment' I encouraged other questioning family members to try was to tape record pentacostal meetings, making 'sounds' and see what responses they result in. So when they are told its 'of the spirit' they will find what its really of. Ths they have done, and 3, so far, have left pentacostalism. This follows Apostle Paul council when he says 'test the spirits.' BTW, the pentacostal leaders fought very very hard to find, destroy those tapes, a story in and of itself.
---MikeM on 6/12/07

MikeM can never understand heavenly things. He is to trapped in his Mormon doctrines to understand anything. The Book of Acts record the Apostles and other people being baptize in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. All this was by the Holy Spirit. I doubt Mike believe this, but instead believe that some "bio-chemial" were responsible for their behavior and not the Holy Spirit. Don't believe what Mike said about the Penetcostals; no one as and no one will.
---Ramon on 6/12/07

I challenge MikeM to provide a soild Scripture that clearly contradicts Pentecostal Theology and clearly shows that the Pentecostal experiences are not from God.

MikeM and Ashely, the Holy Spirit is not an endorphine. What the Book of Acts record and what Paul taught are not endorphines running in your body, but the Holy Spirit. But then again, I won't expect you people to understand this. Listen to the Bible not men!
---Ramon on 6/12/07

#2 He can never understand the Pentecostal Church and Her doctrines because he can't. The Bible states that those who live in darkness hate the light. I never see him quoting any Scriptures that clearly contradicts Pentecostal Theology. Why? Its because he can't.

He could never attack Pentecostals with Scriptures, so he had to "explain away" the truth using Science. He must has a bad experience when he was young with the Pentecostals. He can never convince one to his "ideas".
---Ramon on 6/12/07

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Gail: I see you have not read the judging blog yet. If you did, you would never ridicule, mock or condemn anyone that live as an example of Jesus Christ. do not try to remove the mote in someone else's eye until you remove the beam from your own eyes and see things clearly. Mike was not bashing pentacostles. He stated a fact of life. endorphines are released into the bloodstream during excitement and they do stupid things. it is carnal and devilish. read what is written and not what you see.
---ashley on 6/12/07

MikeM., you're consumed/fixated on religion. Pentecostals in particular.
You would think that your new mormon religion would be "all that" for you. But it's not consuming your thoughts and actions.
You're still back here at square one, fixated on Christianity and bashing pentecostals. It's all you think about. Your family must sit idly by, while you spend hours every day here. Daddy types all day, kids, stuck in his childhood; unable to move on with mormonism.
---Gail on 6/12/07

MikeM., I would say you're probably too far down on the rungs to be temple worthy.
So you probably haven't been allowed into the secret places. Joseph Smith/Moroni forbid you get mad at the mormons, you'd tell all of their secrets. They do have to take that into consideration. After all, 100,000 people see this aday. Someone will recognise you, oooh scary.
---Gail on 6/12/07

MikeM., 20 years later and people are still avoiding you. Have you ever wondered why?
Have you ever examined your mannerisms and paranoias?
Have you thought about some professional help? I think you need it.
Spiritual help is out of the question, try a doctor, you need one.
---Gail on 6/12/07

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I suppose my question is too tough. My point to 'pointed' for the posters here. I have ben asking it for 20 years, no answer. I make the point that what pentacostals experience is bio-chemical, the release of endorphines in the bloodstream. This is found in all cultures, and religions, only the idisyncratic jargon surrounding it is differs.
---MikeM on 6/11/07

In all this how do we abide by this verse 1 Corinthians 1:10. How do we get to this point?
---DANNYBOY on 6/11/07

I just got to ask this question! Where in the bible do you see Pentecostal at? There is only one GOD one Christ, One Holy Ghost and one gospel, there is no devision in relegion, Church of Christ is the only church that matters! I have not read anything in the bible that states anything about man made religion.!
---Cheryle on 6/10/07

To everyone's reply: Please read Acts 2:38 for salvation plan. I am Pentecostal and I am proud of it. I love Jesus and I pray in the Spirit as much as I can (speak in tounges)It is like nothing you have ever felt in your life. It is a prayer language between you and God. It's awsome.
---Sandy on 6/10/07

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Explain to me only the ones that said the church i attend is and a cult.pray tell me how you receive the spirt of the Lord When we stand before the Lord he doesn't care what church we belong to as long as we obey what he told the apostle to teach us - He didn't give Paul the key to the kingdom
---betty on 11/7/06

contiune He gave old Peter who denied Jesus but he trusted Peter and he gave him the keys to the kingdom which is the plan of salvation which is acts2-37-38 jesus had to die fist before they could carry out his plane no where in the new testement will you fine any one been baptize any other way but in jesus name some of you not all of you have made fun of people speaking in tongues but thats how we know we have recived his spirt and the Holy spirt is jesus
---betty on 11/7/06

And no we don't belive we are saved by works we are saved by Grace but if you are saved you will witness to people when someone
allows you to and if they don't the bible says shake the dust of of your feet meaning
walk a way from them .
we are to help people pray for each other.vist the sick go to the jails.What ever we find to do .Do IT.
---Betty on 11/7/06

This salvation is not church you belong to but if you got the goods [Holy Ghost]
---Betty on 11/7/06

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Rev Herb is an exclusionist. If you are not a Baptist who reads the KJV only, then you are NOT saved. What a bunch of nonsense. Jesus died once for all, and ALL who accept Him as Savior and Lord WILL be saved. God's Word, not mine. Did you know that true, died-in-the-wool, old fashioned Baptists don't think you should call anyone Reverend? What's up with that, Herb. There is only ONE person who deserves that title, and it ain't you! That is according to the majority of Baptists. Hmmm...
---Crystal on 10/26/06

My part one below should read "in their case the "work" was circumcision (not baptism).
---Bruce5656 on 10/17/06

He concluded: Galatians 5:2, "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised" (in order to really be saved as the false teachers were teaching them) "Christ shall profit you nothing."
Galatians 5:4, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law" (by works of the flesh) "ye are fallen from grace."
---Bruce5656 on 10/17/06

What I meant was that if one claims to be saved by faith and because they have done some particular "good work" or religious act they do not understand what it is to be saved at all. Paul taught this to the Galations. In their case the "work" was baptism.
---Bruce5656 on 10/17/06

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"A body without spirit is dead and faith without work is dead". Spirit in a body helps a man to think,speak and act.All three activities would be missing when spirit departs from body. Likewise, one who receives the HOLY SPIRIT will be enriched with fruits (Works)of the HOLY SPIRIT. If the works of HOLY SPIRIT are not displayed in one who claims faithful, then he is deemed to be dead.
---authi on 10/17/06

Bruce, you said faith + works = no salvation. What you meant to say was either leaning on works instead of faith = no salvation OR faith - works = no salvation/"dead faith". It's just an issue of how I interpreted what you wrote.
---Okebaram on 10/16/06

"Burce, you have the faiths and work thing the other way round."

Could explain further?
---Bruce5656 on 10/15/06

Romans 10:9-10-"Tf you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved." There is nowhere in the scripture where speaking in tongues is a prerequisite for salvation. Although I speak in tongues it's faith in Christ that has quaranteed my salvation. Tongues is a gift of the spirit like healing or miracles. None of these are a quarentee of our salvation. How about people who accept Christ on their death bed? Are they without hope?
---Ken on 10/15/06

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Burce, you have the faiths and work thing the other way round.
---Okebaram on 10/15/06

Susie, you said it well.
---Eloy on 10/14/06

Betty.* There is only one church thats the one Jesus set up in bible people say we are a cult*

No thats false. You see Christ Church doesn't contradict Scriptures. And since the UPC contradict Scriptures it is not Christ Church. According to God's Word they are a Cult, Im not the one saying that, but God's Word.

Now let me ask you something. Will anyone outside the UPC be saved?
---Ramon on 10/14/06

I am a pentecostal (not UPC) who knows that I am saved. I do not worry about someone who says that pentecostals sometimes see "the light" and find Christ. I found him a long time ago and intend to keep on serving Him until he comes back or I've taken my last breath. The "church" is made up of a whole lot of people from different denominations and some from no denomination. The Bible says that everyone will have a judgment day. Rebecca you are left for God's judgment not mine.
---Susie on 10/14/06

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Betty ... I don't follow all you say. Punctuation whould help.
But who according to God's word is not saved?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/12/06

According to Gods word they are not saved im not saying that God says that from his word
---Betty on 10/12/06

Well there is one Lord one faith
and one bapbism You have to have the spirt of God to really understant his word
---Betty on 10/12/06

There is only one church thats the one Jesus set up in bible people say we are a cult no we are not cults one day people will understand Jesus give Peter the keys to the kingdom which is the plan of salavation Christ expects up us to follown'his plan he gives us his spirit he also gives us power we will won't to go to the jails the hospital nursing home we go were the lord
rsends us We are not saved bye works We follow his word
---betty on 10/12/06

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Darlene_1 , You are right, the extra non-biblical dont's have to go. It's so sad that many of Churches talk about don't wear pant's or makeup, but leave out "don't gossip" or "don't lie" , or "don't bear false witness". God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 10/8/06

Allow me to build on Bruce's equation of salvation:

Works = no Salvation
Faith = Salvation (but)
Faith - Works = PROBLEM! (see James2:14-26)

Bottom line, salvation comes from faith, but true faith will bear fruit (deeds, works), so true faith and works will always go together.
---Michel on 10/7/06

Paul's letter to the Galations teaches us that faith+works=no salvation. If one believes that they are saved because they are baptized in water vs baptized because they are saved, that is faith+works. Paul called this an "other gospel" which is in fact a false gospel.
---Bruce5656 on 10/7/06

Betty.#2. Its funny you say "Who set you up to be a judge" yet you say some people are not saved. Now I ask You the same question: Who set you up to be the judge? The bible is the judge and according to the bible, the UPC is a cult. They follow false teaching. You may defend cult if you want but non here will!
---Ramon on 10/7/06

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Betty. The bible is the judge. Any judgement is based on what the Bible said vs men's words. According to this, the UPC is a cult. Its full of heresy. They believe they the only one going to heaven and if you leave their Church you on your way to Hell baby. The RCC believe the same thing (Salvation through the Church). According to them, you also have to speak in tongues in order to be saved. These and other false doctrines make them a Cult. And you say they not a Cult?
---Ramon on 10/7/06

Betty - UPC, or Oneness Pentecostals, are a cult. See Bruce5656's post below. They do not believe that Jesus Christ saves in His finished work on the Cross for sin. Not everyone who says they are a Christian is a Christian.
---Helen_5378 on 10/7/06

Some people are not saved but upc pentecostal
are not a cult.Who set you up to be Judge????
---Betty on 10/7/06

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