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Is God All Sovereign

Is God all sovereign? Does He really have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth "Romans 9:18"? Sounds like God is showing favoritism?

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 ---Billy on 9/28/06
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Amen Catherine -
---Shaun on 10/23/07


Cont>>> On the sovereignty of God: Nay but, O man. This is not an objection fit to be made by the creature, by man against God. It become to submit to Him, not to fly in His face, not to charge Him with folly. [We are the thing formed, and He is the former]. [Exodus 33-19]. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, He will do what He will. God is no debtor to no man, His grace is His own. The various dealings of God must be resolved into His absolute Sovereignty.
---catherine on 10/23/07


Those who are saved must thank God only, and those who perish must thank themselves only. God is bound no further than He has been pleased to bind Himself. And that is He will receive, and not cast out, those that come to Christ. It is because He would have mercy on them. He might well find fault if people refused to come up to the terms on which such a salvation is offered. Why does He give grace to some, denies to others?>>>Cont.
---catherine on 10/23/07


Another portion of the bible says that God is impartial. Contradiction? NO; he whom God will have mercy on is anyone who humbles himself before him. But what he is saying is no selfish person should question his goodness because he knows what He is doing...you know like someone thinking because he's been in church 5 years, he will receive more favor that the much-more-humble-than-him new convert next door.Con't...
---Okebaram on 10/23/07


Eloy, If you choose to believe your phantom free will over the scriptures, thats between you and God.

Exod 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I [GOD] will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

You shouldnt think to highly of yourself Eloy. No flesh will glory in his presence, neither will your free will.
---Billy on 10/9/06




Pharoh also represents the children of the flesh, Egyptians you know, creatures of the world. The children of the flesh hate the children of the spirit. They harden their own hearts against God's word.
Romans 9 is about the promise of the Spirit, that came through Jesus Christ, From, Abraham,to Isaac, to Jacob, through Judah,to Jesus Christ. Abraham's seed (Jesus Christ). Those blessed with Faithful Abraham.
The world (Pharoah) has always hated God people Israel and His Church.
---kathr4453 on 10/7/06


.billy, "...against Pharoah's own will", as you say, is not true. The meat of the Word is that Pharoah blatantly refused God's Word, and therefore God rightly moved to judge him. As I said before the same sun melts butter and hardens clay, because of Pharoah's hard heart God condemned him. If Pharoah would have yielded with a soft heart, then God would have blessed him. God and his Power is not the guilt, any more than the Tree in the Garden was the blame for man's sin.
---Eloy on 10/7/06


.billy, "...against Pharoah's own will", as you say, is not true. The meat of the Word is that Pharoah blatantly refused God's Word, and therefore God rightly moved to judge him. As I said before the same sun melts butter and hardens clay, because of Pharoah's hard heart God condemned him. If Pharoah would have yielded with a soft heart, then God would have blessed him. God's and his Power is not the guilt, any more than the Tree in the Garden was the blame for man's sin.
---Eloy on 10/7/06


.billy, Again, God is the present active force, but man in his own free will, which God never violates, responding by rejection and refusal against God's presence will bring hardness to happen. If Pharoah would have obeyed God, then the hardness would not have happened. Scripture does not say that God went against Pharoah's own will, as you wrongly say. Please read Hebrews 3:7,8,13-19.
---Eloy on 10/7/06


Lisa, I think the moderators got them out of order while posting each one. But also ive injoyed the discussion myself. I noticed that we both used the same scriptures at the same time when we were posting. It was the one about David numbering Israel, and how in one place it says God moved David, and the other said Satan provoked David to do this "II Sam. 24:1, I Chron. 21:1". I believe that God was leading our hands in that one.
---Billy on 10/6/06




Billy, do you have any idea how the numbers in our answers got so mixed up? Thanks for your inside on God. When you keep answering about God's sovereignty It is such a joy, because it takes me back to reading and putting together God's word. I sure have fun, and its been a wonderful experience. Just the subject of Phoraoh, is a story that is wonderful to study.
---lisa on 10/6/06


Eloy, If Pharoah would have submitted to Moses's demands, God did, and would have caused Pharoah to be hardened, and not let Israel go. This is scripture Eloy, GOD hardened Pharoahs heart, against Pharoahs own will to do other wise. Eloy, this is tough meat to chew on, but if you cant handle it, you can always go back to the milk of the word.
---Billy on 10/6/06


billy, When Pharoah refused the Word of Moses, it was God's Word that Pharoah was rejecting; nevertheless it was Pharoah's free choice to either refuse or obey, and he refused to accept the truth, that there was one higher than him. Just as many today reject God's authority over them onto their own destruction, but how sweet it is when one sinner accepts his love onto the salvation of their soul.
---Eloy on 10/5/06


(1). Okebaram, thanks for you reply. I hope your not classifying me in the category of a baby.I have learned a lot from experience. As a matter of fact, ive learned more from personal investigation, and from Gods spirit, and have tried not to be swayed by mens teachings. I once believed like all Orthodoxie. I once believed that God would torment most of his creation in litteral fire for all eternity. It troubled my spirit that the punishment would over extend the crime.
---Billy on 10/5/06


(3). Ok Okebaram, hears some scriptures that, to me, shows Gods sovereignty in all things. First in Exodus 30:12-16 God had instructed Moses never to number the people without collecting a "ransom for there soul". This census was for one reason only, and that the atonement money would be appointed for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

So we have King David in "II Sam. 24:2-3" doing exactly the opposit of what God had said to do.
---Billy on 10/5/06


(2). Okebaram, is God a just God that will judge us according to our works, or do you think that man could some how do an eternity of sin, to deserve eternal punishment? This is why I dont believe in eternal hell any more. This is just one example of what ive searched out, and found to be mistranslated in our english bibles. Eather way, you had said that I should seek the Holy Spirit on the issue of whether all evil is included in Gods will. Well, ive done that and I know what God has shown me.
---Billy on 10/5/06


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(4). If we look at "II Sam. 24:1" we will see who it was that moved David to do such a thing.

Wooo, its God that moved David to do something that God himself had said not to do. But thats not all, so heres another twist to the story.
---Billy on 10/5/06


(5). In "I Chron. 21:1" the same story is told. But what does verse one say?

Wooo, it was Satan that provoked David to number Israel. Why does it say that God did it in "II Sam 24", but in "I Chron 21" it was Satan. Ill end with that. Give me your comments...
---Billy on 10/5/06


5. Just remember Before Absalom had committed his sin it was announced to David that this was the form which his punishment was to take: "Thus saith Jehavah, behold I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house; and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of the sun," 2 Sam.12:11. Hence this acts were not in every way contrary to the will of God.
---lisa on 10/5/06


God, through His Sovereign will, does everything necessary to accomplish His plan, and His works are always just, right, and perfect. It is His creation and He has told us what He has done and will do, and it is always as He wants, for His glory. We might not understand it all but that is what He tells us. It's His Word and He is Sovereign. Any other God that is presented that is helpless in the affairs of men, is not the God of the Bible.
---lisa on 10/5/06


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4. we are told that it was Satan who instigated David's pride and caused him to number them, 1 Chr. 21:1. In this we see that Satan was made the rod of God's wrath and that God impels even the hearts of sinful men and demons withersoever He will. While all adulterous and incestuous intercourse is abominable to God, He sometimes uses even such sins as these to punish other sins, as was the case when He used such acts in Absalom to punish the adultery of David.
---lisa on 10/5/06


Okebaram, Even Satan and the evil spirits are made to carry out the divine purposes of God. As an insturment of divine vengeance in the punishment of the wicked an evil spirit was openly given the command to go and deceive the prophets of King Ahad. "And Jehovah said, who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner; and another on that manner. And there came forth a spirit,
---lisa on 10/5/06


2. and stood before Jehovah, and said, I will entice him. And Jehovah said unto him, wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of his prophets, And He said, thou shalt entice him, and shall prevail; God forth and do so. "Now therefore (said Micaiah), behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these they prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee" 1 Kings 22:20-23.
---lisa on 10/5/06


3. Concerning Saul it is written, "an evil spirit from Jehovah troubled him," 1 Sam. 16:14. "And God sent an evil spirit between Ablimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech," Judges 9:23. In one place we are told that God, in order to punish a rebellious people, moved the heart of David to number them 2 Samuel 24:1,10; but in another place where this same act is referred to,
---lisa on 10/5/06


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#2:I want you to seek the Holy Spirit on the issue of whether all evil is included in God's will. God's will is held back by His justice and love in many areas and would continue to be until His kingdom comes. God does not tempt people to sin. As for your question, the olden day English may have used the word tempt for test, but when I say temp I refer to the persuasion of a person to do evil.
---Okebaram on 10/4/06


Billy, the bible is kind of mysterious sometimes, it can so easily be judged wrongly by honest experience or research. The babe is the person that learns nothing from experience, learns nothing from personal investigation or discoveries, does not adjust the statement of the Holy Spirit in his heart which is only what he learns from and believes. He only askses the Spirit his questions and the Spirit provides impeccable evidence.
---Okebaram on 10/4/06


...Be humble as a son, not a servant. Many of them, like you, will probably enter with rewards into heaven but look back and realize that their "revelations" caused them some of the fullness they should have had in their personal relationships with God and that of those whom they led. I initially decided to ignore your question because I felt like you would only continue to argue, but now I've tried to explain a little.
---Okebaram on 10/4/06


#3: God tested Abraham, ie. the provision of the choice to do good OR evil, with the persuasion but not compulsion to do good, in order to assert a person's discipline and obedience. Very different! if you've walked with God like you say you have, don't you know by now that God is predictably good, unrelentingly kind, yet very humble, sometimes held-back by even human decisions, that He operates on earth after receiving the permission or invitation of man and that is why He seeks one to stand in the gap.
---Okebaram on 10/4/06


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Lisa, Very well said ! Youve used your words well to explane what takes place in all of our lives as God reveals his word to us from glory to glory. This will happen to us till the day we draw our last breath. God reveals to us his word at different walks in our life, and each time he does, all of us scratch our heads and say, "why didnt I see that 10 years ago". How blind we all are, till God sheads just one small ray of light, to reveal the smallest peace of truth, that we might see.
---Billy on 10/4/06


O where have you been, charming Billy?
----on on 10/4/06


5. The unbelievers do have free will, but never for God. They do go around making a lot of choices but never for the Lord. They are slaves to sin and unable of themselves to see, hear, or understand anything of God until the Spirit brings them to light and gives them sight, ears to hear, and a new nature or disposition. This is something many have trouble with right now. They don't put it together, they refuse to hear and stay in one spot for a long time.
---lisa on 10/4/06


4. What I had wrong was the depravity of men and the position of the lost with God. How could I put both believes together and come out with the right answer? It was impossible. people lost, the Bible tells us that they don't seek God. Yet many would say they do. When I read the whole of the message of seeking, only the believers seek God and are told to seek God for everything.
---lisa on 10/4/06


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3. What is important is that he understands it correct now. But it was hard for him. For many years I too understood Scripture as I was taught, but I came to realize I had no answers for many things. It didn't make much sense to say that people lost have a free will for Christ when they have emmity against God, and were blind and dead spiritually.
---lisa on 10/4/06


2. understood something another way, and trying to put both together just doesn't work. It is hard to break a wall that is already there. Many are very sincere and love the Lord, but have known something one way and are not willing to give it up. I remember my hubby, understood something one way for a long time and one day he said, "I cannot believe I understood this wrong" now I can see why I could not make sense of many passages. He felt bad that he was decieved for such a long time.
---lisa on 10/4/06


Billy, you have done well in answering. You see nothing good in you and I can see that. There is many people that if they just took the time to read the whole of Scripture would come to a clear picture of so many things. One can take a verse out of context so easy, and many do here. But when they speak, they speak about God's Sovereignty because they cannot escape that part. They know God is Sovereign and they know God knows everything but they cannot put it together because they have
---lisa on 10/4/06


(3). Okebaram, I Hope you could tell me where Ive given you the impression that ive considered myself wise? Just by reading words that people write, its hard to detect tone, and facial expressions to know the sincerity, or the pride thats trying to come through. But I do pray often for me to decrease that he might increase. Eather way, I hope you want to continue to discuss this topic. If you do, just show me where God said that he was trying to build there faith to bring them out of Egypt?
---Billy on 10/4/06


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(2). Why do you think that Ive went to such great lengths to share with others that free will isnt found in Gods word.
Do you think that im pridefull because I push so hard to want scripture to prove every point? Im sure you dont disagree that if you or I give an opinion on something, that if you or anyone else asked me for scriptural proof for my words, that this is only right for you, or anyone to do so. I havent angered you in doing this have I? I sure hope not.
---Billy on 10/4/06


Okebaram, why would you think, that I dont think of myself as humble, or that I dont consider myself as nothing before the Lord? I dont consider myself as wise by a long shot. You dont know the wilderness experiences that God has put me through to show me just how much "me", or any flesh will glory in his presence. There is none good, no not one. Every man needs to know that when he thinks that he stands, to take head that he just might fall. And fall he will with such pride in himself.
---Billy on 10/4/06


4. God's Truth does not change, His word does not contradict. If we look for the real meaning in the whole context there is an answer to every question. God is Sovereign and He does as He pleases. He is in control of heaven and earth. We are only completing what He already saw from infinite time. Whatever decision you make He already knows. He is God, He set a plan, and He will complete His plan.
---lisa on 10/3/06


3. Another reason why that passage is not speaking of the world but of the believers is that God tells us, "I do all that I please" Here in this passage, if He says He does all that pleases Him, why are so many going to hell? You see If He is willing that no one in the world be lost and He does all that He wills, then His word is not truth and He really doesn't do all His will. He is not Sovereign and so not God.
---lisa on 10/3/06


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2. Is go back to the beginning of chapter 1, he says, "To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ." He is writing to them and telling about God and how God is not willing that any of them should perish. The context of all of the letter has to be read to understand what he was saying and to whom.
---lisa on 10/3/06


Rickey, I thank you kindly for answering the way you do. You put down 2 Peter 3:9. Let me explain this passage to you. It seems to imply that God is not willing that anyone in the world should perish. But that is not what the context of the passages teach Rickey. In the passage Peter is talking to the believers, "the beloved" and not speaking on behalf of the whole world. If you go back to 3:8, "But, beloved" and if you want to find out who they are
---lisa on 10/3/06


...No argument is enough to convince such theologians on their error. "Professing to be wise, they became fools" (Rom 1:22). I thank God that I was a babe before Him, that His Spirit taught me His heavenly riches. And I'm not just talking about you Billy, I'm talking about thousands of people on CN and in all kingdoms of the earth, of apostles and preachers, of scientists and theologians.
---Okebaram on 10/3/06


...I realise now how easy it is to neglect the bible's context and misconstrue its statements, to miss implications though reading the very words that convey them. how easy it is to satisfy false theologies by misinterpreting scriptures. Indeed, only the Holy Spirit reveals these secrets to babes (the humble, those who aknowledge they nothing of themselves, that they aren't wise). Cont'd...
---Okebaram on 10/3/06


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You know, these blogs have made me understand what Jesus said in Matt 11:25:
I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes." Cont'd...
---Okebaram on 10/3/06


Okebaram, No comment on what I had wrote to you? I would like to hear what you thought about the scriptures I had used first, before we start on something else that I had said to Lee. You still didnt show me a scripture that says, God did all of this to increase Israels faith? Lets finish discussing this first, and then we can deal with my alleged, "revelation birthed in misinterpretaion and advocated by demons doctrin".
---Billy on 10/2/06


Rickey, you didnt comment on John 15:16. Do we really think that we have any rights "free will"? Do you think that you are not bound to serve one of two masters "Mat 6:24"? You will hate the one, and love the other; or else you will hold to the one, and despise the other. Your free will doctrine has lied to you Rickey. Your free will has bound you to another, and the other isnt Jesus. Free will is an idol of the heart, for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
---Billy on 10/2/06


Billy, your revelation is not from God. It is a man-made revelation, a revelation birthed in misinterpretaion and advocated by demons.
---Okebaram on 10/2/06


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Billy, no one has made free-will an idol, but I do believe that folks have taken it too far. God didn't make us to be robots completely controlled by Him. He gave us the right to make our own choices. For instance, Adam & Eve, they had the choice to choose to obey God & not eat from the tree or to disobey. God knew what they were going to do, but still gave them the right to choose. God cannot force anyone to get saved. He doesn't "choose" certain people to get saved either.(2Peter 3:9)
---Rickey on 10/2/06


Lee, I use to have the same problem. I believed that God was all sovereign, but couldnt quite understand how it worked with mans will. It does take God opening your spiritual eyes to understand this revelation. After all, how does one explane scripture that says God chose us, but in another scripture he says, choose you this day. It sounds like a lot of contradictions if one doesnt understand Gods sovereignty. And this is why there words go against each other.
---Billy on 10/2/06


Yes. Yes. No.
---On on 10/2/06


3. Here is one topic. They don't believe God saves them, that they have to have their free will in order to be born-again, yet when they pray for a son/daughter or someone asking for someone that is not saved, they pray and ask God to change their son/daugther or someone, knowing in their hearts that only God can change their hearts, because they cannot change it themselves. They know the truth already about God, but argue agianst that very point.
---lee_1 on 10/2/06


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2. many argue against a question like salvation in one form, but when answering they use the exact thing they are against. Morgan did that on a few answers, spoke of men and his works and then said that only through Christ work. Both mixed together. Eloy and many others do that. I read writings from many and they do the same thing and it is because they don't understand or realize what they are saying.
---lee_1 on 10/2/06


Billy, that is what I have noticed coming from Eloy, he connects two theologies together and is the reason he makes so many mistakes when answering. He cannot help doing it because its in Scripture and cannot avoid it and yet he speaks so much against God's sovereignty together with free will. So his mixed up when writing. He should take one stance and completely that stance. Either for men or for God. Yet he cannot because his mind is not convince one way or another.
---lee_1 on 10/2/06


Eloy, Its funny that you think that Pharoahs heart was heardened by pride and selfishness, as if God didnt have anything to do with this. But then you say that The same sun melts butter and hardens clay, which are we? So was it Pharoahs pride, or Gods sun "Son" that made Pharoah this way?
Of course we arnt robots, but we are clay in the potters hands. You have said that you know the bible. So, Whos hands are all of us in, that does the molding?
---Billy on 10/2/06


Rickey, dont listen to men, and make free will an idol of your heart also. Free will is the antichrist spirit, sitting on your hearts throne, proclaming to be god. Man wants to be a god in himself to say, "I alone choose to serve God, or not serve God". God does work all things after the counsel of his own will "Eph 1:11". If you think that its up to you to choose God, and not God that does the choosing, please comment on "John 15:16".
---Billy on 10/1/06


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(4). Okebaram, Yes it was Gods will for this to happen to Israel, and it was for our admonition. If you dont believe that, then I dont know what else to tell you.

You also say that God doesnt tempt us or send evil on anyone? First you might want to ask Abraham if God can tempt us "Gen 22:1". Also, here are some other scriptures you might want to consider.

Isaiah 45:7
Pro.16:4
Pro. 20:24
Jeremiah 10:23
Amos 3:6
Isaiah 10:15
1Sam 16:14
---Billy on 10/1/06


(3). 1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Okebaram, if you start at 1Cor 10:1, youll see that this was talking about Israel leaving Egypt. And it sounds like they didnt learn the faith that you clame that God was trying to teach them.
---Billy on 10/1/06


(2). Okebaram, Your words sound like it all depended on Pharaoh being a better person? I guess if Pharaoh would have done better this wouldnt have happened? But this doesnt go hand in hand with scripture "Rom 9:17". Im going to say something that might be hard for you to digest. Every thing that happened in the old testament, was orchestrated by Gods hand, "and it was for us". And yes, I can prove this with scripture.
---Billy on 10/1/06


(1). Okebaram, Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Does this scripture tell us anything about why Pharaoh was born? God created Pharaoh for this purpose, and it was to show Gods power. Show me a scripture that says God did all of this to increase Israels faith.
---Billy on 10/1/06


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3. No one can save himself, God has to wake him up from his sleep, just like Lazuras, and he responded to Christ when He said, come forward, Lazuras came forward, he followed Christ as Christ commanded. He did not say, "Why did you awake me Christ, I wanted to be dead." He saw for the first time the Lord of heaven and earth. All lost people are blind, and spiritually dead from the fall, making a lot of free choices but never for God.
---lee_1 on 10/1/06


2. Have you ever seen a person give himself faith to believe? Or have you seen someone that can justify himself? Or regenerate himself? While he is moving and thinking he is not thinking of God or can even see God, or hear God. He is so depraved that God has to bring him to life first, by grace, open his eyes, and gives him hearing so he can hear God, and give him the faith to believe in who he is hearing. So, your answer is correct, they do have free will but never to make a choice for Christ.
---lee_1 on 10/1/06


Rickey, men has free will alright. They choose to do what they want when they are not saved, but they don't make choices for Christ because they don't know Christ. While alive they walk and talk and do everything in their hearts and Christ is not in their hearts. Evil and selfishness is, they seek money, power, and thirst for everything that is not of God, for they have emnity towards God. Have you ever seen a dead person come to life by himself?
---lee_1 on 10/1/06


God who is 100% perfect cannot be blamed for any fault. Man becomes hard through pride and selfishness, when God says to the proud, "I am your God, bow the knee to me, then their flesh (as Pharoah's has) rises up and hardens against God. The same sun melts butter and hardens clay, which are we? Do we humble and submit onto everlasting life, or do we harden and rebell onto our own destruction. God did not make robots but souls each given freedom of choice or freewill to choose which path to follow.
---Eloy on 10/1/06


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I agree with Rev. herb, God is sovereign, but we all have a free-will. We can chose Jesus or reject Him, but it's all upto us. We all have a free-will to do whatever we want to. God won't force us to get healed, saved, delivered, etc. His will won't override our's. Now His as God, He can't be "controlled". What His word says that He will do regardless of man.
---Rickey on 9/30/06


To clarify things further, Billy, it wasn't God's will to "delay His Exodus", but in the situation (the frailty of the Israelites), it became love's most practical solution. Read Exodus 13:17-18.
Romans 9:14-18 shouldn't be misinterpreted as God being discriminative. God blesses people according to His good will; He never destroys or neglects people who don't deserve such by the standards of love and grace.
---Okebaram on 9/30/06


Understand this: That God turns around evil for good does not automatically mean that God originally intended or initiated the evil. The same God of which the bible says He tempts no man does not make people evil or more evil against their own will!
---Okebaram on 9/30/06


First of all, Billy, the main purpose of God showing Israel His mighty power was to increase their faith (and the dread of them among nations like egypt that tried to bully them). Secondly, If Pharoah had because of compassion set them free at Moses's first confrontation, or had never enslaved them in the first place, there would have been no talk about the plagues or the hardening of his heart. Do you think it was God's will that so many Israelites would perish in the wilderness? Cont'd...
---Okebaram on 9/30/06


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God is completely sovereign, and His will cannot be thwarted by anyone, or anything, not even man's supposed "free-will." He has the power to do whatever He desires with anyone of us, or anything else He created. He owns it/us all.
---tommy3007 on 9/30/06


4. but men, with his little wisdom, make God a being they can mold and change to fit their own understanding. He declared even the end time and knows even the intentions of each one that speaks against His Sovereign authority. That He doesn't strike people for speaking against Him is only because He does not will it. He holds the unbelievers and wicked one's, over the pit of hell, and if He so please, could release them in a second taking their life's and the opportunity to ask for forgiveness.
---lee_1 on 9/29/06


3. with all their hosts, the earth and all things that are therein, the seas and all that is in them, and thou preservest them all," Neh. (9:6. "In Him we live, and move and have our being," Acts 17:28. He is "over all, and through all, and in all," Eph. 4:6. All things, both in heaven and earth, from the seraphim down to the tiny atom, are ordered by His never-failing providence. This is written in Scripture for all to see and understand,
---lee_1 on 9/29/06


2. The Scriptures which He gave us very clearly teach that all things outside of God owe not merely their original creation, but their continued existence, with all their properties and powers, to the will of God. He upholds all thing by the word of His power, Heb. 1:3. He is before all things, and in Him all things consist, Col. 1:17. "Thou are Jehovah, even thou alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens,
---lee_1 on 9/29/06


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Very good Billy, I believe people forget the nature, attributes and character of God when they answer a question. They think from their perspective, and forget who God is. Like someone dealing with people through time and changing things ever so much because men has made a different choice and He was somehow surprise what people are doing. Scripture clearly teaches that God is Sovereign from beginning to end.
---lee_1 on 9/29/06


Donna, So your saying that God shows mercy to the Good, but hardens the hearts of pridefull people? Donna, have you ever thought that there is none good, no not one. Will the pridefull man not be made to bow before God, or will mans will rise above Gods sovereign hand? Isa 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
---Billy on 9/29/06


Okebaram, I dont quite understand. You said, "God caused Pharoah to not be afraid in spite of the palgues so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go". But you clame that Pharoah was still free to actually free them out of love. Are you saying that pharoahs will could have prevailed over Gods will, to let Israel Go before Gods time? The purpose for God to delay His exodus, was to show with a mighty hand, and great power, how God was going to deliver His people. Not to increase there faith.
---Billy on 9/29/06


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