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What Is The Trinity

What is the individual role of each person within the God-head (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) within the life of the Christian?

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jhonny, I don't believe you saw God Almighty himself. As I told Eloy, you may have seen a number of things, angels, or even Satan, who constantly transforms himself into an angel of light, to mislead man. See my posts on this listed on this blog.
---Johnny_5 on 2/15/07


jhonny, I don't believe you saw God Almighty himself. As I told Eloy, you may have seen a number of things, angels, or even Satan, who constantly transforms himself into an angel of light, to mislead man. See my posts on this listed on this blog.
---Johnny_5 on 2/15/07


jhonny, I don't believe you saw God Almighty himself. As I told Eloy, you may have seen a number of things, angels, or even Satan, who constantly transforms himself into an angel of light, to mislead man. See my posts on this listed on this blog.
---Johnny_5 on 2/15/07


Johnny5, you are absolutely correct. God did SPEAK at his GREATEST SON*s baptism. That clearly shows Jesus is not the one true God. I guess this disproves one of Gina*s three trinities: Jesus = Father; Jesus = H.S.; Jesus = Son; and Jesus = ONE TRUE GOD. Thanks and God bless.
---I_AM_I on 2/11/07


Wow, just reading what all of you understand as truth scares me a little, but I understand that there is many out there making some remarkable statements not only about the Trinity but about seeing the face of God. Just listening to most of you, I am reminded that it is very clear how far one goes to not only dispute Scripture but build your own religions and finding each other in the website. I can see how you guys believe in each other and agree with each other.
---Lisas on 2/11/07




I Am I, You are correct in the last statement, God be with you at all times.
---Johnny_5 on 2/11/07


I Am I, My heart goes out to you, I know you understand about the TRINITY, one of the few, meaning only a few will know the TRUTH!! It's always better to fight evil in pairs or 2's. I will keep the fight against Satan. God bless
---Johnny_5 on 2/11/07


I Am I, What of the "voice" of God? God did speak to Moses, "person to person", he also spoke when Jesus was babtized, saying, "this is my son", please confirm.
---Johnny_5 on 2/11/07


Eloy: "For I myself have seen God more than once, even as the Bible says." I understand your position, yet may I ask you. Did you see the gate with the flower, the temple with no doors, the trees, the water. Did you walk and talk? Did you see angels overhead, some reading, did you break bread. What were you told. Could you briefly indicate what you saw. Don't say too much. Just answer.
---jhonny on 2/10/07


1/Johnny5

RE: Eloy and see God*s face

I wanted to wait until you and Eloy completed your discussion before I joined it. It appears both of you are finished. Therefore, let me add this: Eloy and I have been through this last year on this very blog. Not only does Scripture say no one has seen God*s face AT ANY TIME, it also says no one has ever heard God*s voice AT ANY TIME.
---I_AM_I on 2/10/07




2/Johnny5

However, in the OT many people have heard God*s voice, including Moses, and several people have seen God. Abraham had diner with God and Jacob had a fist fight with God before God broke his hip. Eloy called these ANTINOMIES. Webster* dictionary calls them CONTRADICTIONS. This is where I left off with Eloy. If you need the scriptures on these I can provide them. Keep up the good work. God bless.
---I_AM_I on 2/10/07


3/Johnny5

One other thing, I used those scriptures to show that Jesus is not THE ONE TRUE GOD, because people have seen Jesus and heard his voice!!!!!!!!!!!
---I_AM_I on 2/10/07


Jacques, You are right if I reply right, "Yah Weh almighty, Yahshua son." Then you are correct in that Yahshua does rule now, but he will give the Kingdom back to "Yah Weh."
---Johnny_5 on 2/10/07


CAROL. Bless you. You have it right. 100%. On the trinity. The Trinity is God's MYSTERY. Every attempt to illustrate the TRINITY IS INADEQUATE. The Trinity shows God has personal relationships and expresses love within His own Being.
---catherine on 2/10/07


the father,son and the holy spirit is the trinity.which is our lord and savior jesus christ.he is all of them.
---carol on 2/9/07


The only thing at this time that I can add is, Jesus actually said to me,"that is why I came". Also, I did have a vision of Jesus torso and face. OFCOURSE, the devil said, "that is your imagination". So I blinked real quick and the vision left. Then later I read in a book that sometimes God will reveal Himself in that way. I felt a little cheated [DEVIL] because I didn't know.
---catherine on 2/9/07


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Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger admits that the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19 was invented and originated in Rome(second century) and not the original Church in Jerusalem(33 A.D.).He states,

"The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome."
---Lari_S on 2/9/07


Eloy, Thanks for your interesting analysis, however it hasn't changed my mind. I still believe no man has seen God's face, as the Scriptures I showed you before. On the other hand, the Scripture you wanted me to read about Paul is not seeing God, but he saw Jesus. Next, I don't know what you may have seen, but I don't think it was God himself. It could however be a number of things, including; 2 Cor 11:14 which says; And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. God bless.
---Johnny_5 on 2/9/07


.johnny5, The hebrew word Paniym, not only means "face", but also means "person", as in Leviticus 19:15; thus Ex.33:11 and Dt. 34:10 is person to person. Moses spoke to the pillar of cloud which was God's presence, much like Paul did on the road to Damascus in Acts 9:3-9. In Ex.33:13 it is show me now your eye; vs.18 show me your abundance; vs.20,23 is my face. Please read Genesis 32:30,31; Exo.33:11,13,18-23; Deut.34:10; Jeremiah 29:13; Matthew 5:8; 11:27; John 14:21,23; I John 3:6.
---Eloy on 2/7/07


.johnny5, you must be inspired to understand in-spirited words properly. Jesus always knows what he is talking about, because he has the mind of God. When the O.T. and N.T. say that no one has ever seen God, and again in both testaments it says that some have seen God, then you need to take these antinomies in their context. And when we do, we understand that no worldy ones can see God, but the god-seeking will see God. For I myself have seen God more than once, even as the Bible says.
---Eloy on 2/7/07


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Yahshua has been given all authority. The Christ destroys sin. The Holy Spirit is an example of unlimited power. The Father is to be feared, you will live longer!
---Jacques on 2/7/07


Eloy, I can see your argument that at Exodus 33:11, saying that God spoke with Moses face to face, however "after" that at Exodus 33:20-23 God states, And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me, and live. And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: (cont.)
---Johnny_5 on 2/7/07


1/Brother Earl

Your last post is a homerun!!! I agree with MOST of it. I can even live with the fact that you use the word *Father* and *himself.* While I understand the context of these words, I TRY to stay away from anthropomorphic terms (like father, son, etc) because they tend to confuse some people. To this day, some people still believe God is a bearded face, gray haired old man up in the sky.
---I_AM_I on 2/7/07


2/Brother Earl

While some have graduated from this view of God, they still cling to an entirely anthropomorphic concept. The most anthropomorphic I like to get is body, mind and soul or body, soul and spirit. ONE BODY, ONE MIND, ONE SOUL, ONE SPIRIT, ONE INDIVISIBLEGOD manifesting throughout creation at all times! Since you know this or speak the language, you need to share more. You have a God-given duty to educate and not to indoctrinate.
---I_AM_I on 2/7/07


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3/Brother Earl

You may not know it, but you answered most of the question of what are the elements or composition of Spirit. The answer is in the very last sentence in your post. God bless or Peace Profound.
---I_AM_I on 2/7/07


pt.2 to Eloy, Exodus 33:22,23; And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23; And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Also John 1:18; says, No "man" has seen God at "any" time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (cont.)
---Johnny_5 on 2/7/07


pt.3 to Eloy, Now to try to understand what is said at Exodus 33:11; And the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend; can only mean one thing. That God himself spoke to Moses, there was no mediator between them, figuratively speaking, face to face, not seeing God's face, but having a conversation with Almighty God himself. God doesn't contradict himself, but if you have no reasoning with the Scriptures, they will appear contradictory. God bless.
---Johnny_5 on 2/7/07


Danie9374
(The Word has the same nature as the Father and Holy Spirit; all 3 are Deity, but NOT separate beings!)

I believe the same concept you do.... I explained it in another form, but tryed to explain the same thing.
Oh! and by the way "I know there is NO = sign in scripture.. I was merely using it to try and explain.. but anyway, God bless!
---DePuTy on 2/6/07


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God's words which are delivered to man are not for man to dispute, but for man to accept onto the salvation of their souls.
---Eloy on 2/6/07


1/Brother Earl, BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Therefore, please tell all those Trinitarians, and those who are struggling with this and sending God all over the universe, that GOD IS ENERGY, whether in the form of LOVE, SPIRIT, CREATIVE INTELLIGENCE, etc. There is a reason why I locked into you from late last year. I started STUDYING your posts and realized that you may be onto to this THING.
---I_AM_I on 2/6/07


2/Brother Earl

However, when I read your exchange with brother Johnny5 on PERSON, that gave me pause. Also, you have yet to expose how the Christian trinity is cosmologically inaccurate, as you claimed.
---I_AM_I on 2/6/07


greetings,iami.Where there is spirit there is love,and love there is spirit of God's pattern of himself.Spirit is the vehicle ,love is it's payload.In closing,man as a mortal will never swing into full comprehension of the things spiritual while living in the flesh.All will come to know the Father as their Father labors quietly in them but the mortal limitations are bounds man cannot cross while remaining a terrestrial.Energy manipulated becomes matter,material and physical,ie.(children)
---earl on 2/6/07


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Brother Earl

One more thing, LOVE (energy/intelligence) is that GLUE that keeps everything in the universe *together* You need to elaborate on your idea of people confusing Jesus with the actual WORD/LOGOS, which is a Nile Valley creation that the Greeks borrowed. There was a Nile Valley God who spoke things into being BEFORE MOSES was born in EGYPT! I keep telling you and others that Judeo-Christian-Islam are based on Nile Valley myths in part.
---I_AM_I on 2/6/07


greetings.iami.Energy.The sayings he or she makes one happy,It makes me happy,I am happy for him,im loved,someone loves me,my father loves me,Brotherly love,love makes one warm inside,i can see the love,she makes me feel happy,etc.On and on when love is applied(energy) to another form there is a direct response from that energy(love)applied.The transmission of love is energy flowing and given.Love is mindal,not elemental.God is the pattern,energy and flowing from and of love.
---earl on 2/6/07


Brother Earl

YOU WROTE: Your reply on composition of Spirit is - LOVE.Love will free all people from any slavery they experience.Who said "Love your brother as I have loved you"?Did someone say God is Love?

God is indeed LOVE, SPIRIT, UNIVERSAL INTELLIGENCE, etc. However, what are the elements of love?
---I_AM_I on 2/6/07


1) More on the corruption of Matthew 28:19

The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge states,

"Jesus, however, cannot have given His disciples this Trinitarian order of baptism after His resurrection; for the New Testament knows only one baptism in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:43; 19:5; Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13-15), which still occurs even in the second and third centuries, while the Trinitarian formula occurs only in Matt. 28:19,.."
---Lari_S on 2/6/07


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2) ,..Finally, the distinctly liturgical character of the formula...is strange; it was not the way of Jesus to make such formulas... the formal authenticity of Matt. 28:19 must be disputed..."
---Lari_S on 2/6/07


*augua9846, out of the mouth the heart speaks, thus your bearing false witness reveals that you are not of the body and you are still unsaved.*
---Eloy

Are you a Oneness Pentecostal, eloy?
---augusta on 2/6/07


DePuTy: There is no such thing as an '=' sign in Scripture! Nor does John 1:1 use the word 'equals' either. The verb 'to be' (in whatever tense) MIGHT have that meaning in some contexts, BUT def. not in all of them; and certainly not in John 1:1c! I repeat: IF you try to say 1:1c means 'Word=God' then it contradicts 1:1b's "Word was with God". 1:1c means: The Word has the same nature as the Father and Holy Spirit; all 3 are Deity, but NOT separate beings!
---danie9374 on 2/6/07


Ac 17:29 "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and MAN'S DEVICE."
device:-deliberate pondering, thinking, thoughts.
---jhonny on 2/6/07


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greetings.iami.Your reply on composition of Spirit is - LOVE.Love will free all people from any slavery they experience.Who said "Love your brother as I have loved you"?Did someone say God is Love?Although i am not certain who you speak of is experiencing mental slavery.
---earl on 2/5/07


greetings.for iami.In all your questions ,you forgot to add who are the 7 spirits of God.
---earl on 2/5/07


greetings iami.I did not say the Father had the spirit of truth exclusive to him.
---earl on 2/5/07


greetings.iami.Why would one want to know detailed trinity concepts when 'who' places no value in "man made doctrines".I place no value in them either.My posts stand.
---earl on 2/5/07


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laris, I strongly suggest that you believe the Inspired Scripture from God himself, rather than the uninspired commentaries from clay about the Inspired Scripture.
---Eloy on 2/5/07


augua9846, out of the mouth the heart speaks, thus your bearing false witness reveals that you are not of the body and you are still unsaved.
---Eloy on 2/5/07


6/ Earl

even though Jesus clearly told us that the Father is greater than him!

Explain part 5 of your post further. What is the BASIC COSMOLOGICAL ELEMENT of the infinite three, keeping in mind that THE ONE TRUE GOD is Spirit (John 4:24)? This is the same question I have been asking and have yet to receive an answer to. What is the composition of Spirit? If we know this, we can free billions of people from mental slavery!
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


**"It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but...a later liturgical addition."**

Often affirmed by WHOM? Heretics, maybe.

Not by the historic Christian Church.
---Jack on 2/5/07


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Gina

Thanks for the three different IDEAS, CONCEPTS or THEORIES on the trinity. Which one is based on spiritual truth? WHY?
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


1/LADIES and GENTLEMEN:

This has gotten CRAZY! None of us will ever agree on the particulars in our belief or knowledge of God. Accordingly, let us narrow the issue and keep it simple! The Bible says God is Spirit (John 4:24). Therefore,

[1] are Jesus and this Spirit ONE and THE SAME?

[2] Are the Teacher (Father) of Jesus and this Spirit ONE and THE SAME?

[3] How about the H.S./H.G?
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


2/LADIES and GENTLEMEN:

Recognize that I am not asking you if they (John 4:24 and Jesus/Father/H.S) are the same or similar. I want to know if they are ONE and THE SAME. This means there is absolutely no distinction or difference. MikeM, these are your *homoOusios* and *homoIousios*.
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


1/ Brother Earl

YOU WROTE: It is unthinkable that i will say that the trinity in any format is rooted in paganism.There was never a time when the trinity was not.So who came first?Pagans may have adopted their definition as does christianity theirs in relation to the revelation of the trinity christians have.

Yes, THE ONE GOD does manifest throughout creation in triune! However, you clearly know
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


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2/ Earl

that the Christianity trinity is rooted in paganism and heathenism, especially Nile Valley myths, which PRE-DATE Judeo-Christian-Islam! All three religions are based in part on these myths. Therefore, Christianity got the concept of the trinity from paganism and heathenism.
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


3/ Earl

YOU WROTE: Paradise is not heaven.Paradise is perfect without beginning.Heaven is a created vast domain,having beginnings.Paradise exists as the center of all things that is created around it. cont- The eternal Father,Son and Spirit reside in paradise.

So where exactly is it? Do believers get to paradise or only to heaven?
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


4/ Earl

YOU WROTE: .The Father ,son or spirit in no way leave paradise to create but their sons and daughters do."Wisdom"(a part) of the H.S.speaks of origin thus H.S. beginnings also

PLEASE explain this, especially since Trinitarians on this blog and on this site have Jesus and the H.S traveling all over the universe
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


5/ Earl


Regarding mortal and spiritual thinking, I have read on this blog some DEEP spiritual thinking on this man-made doctrine!

YOU WROTE: And the spirit of truth is Jesus' spirit exclusive to him alone

Does the Father have a spirit of truth exclusive to IT alone? How about the H.S? If the answers are yes, then please tell me how this is not POLYTHEISM. If the answers are no, then Jesus is GREATER THAN his TEACHER (Father),
---I_AM_I on 2/5/07


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More on the corrupted Matthew 28:19.

The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries states,

"It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but...a later liturgical addition."
---Lari_S on 2/5/07


The trinity is revealed in both testaments: Please read Isaiah 48:16; 9:6; Matthew 28:19; I John 5:7,8.
---Eloy on 2/5/07


.johnny5, read Exodus 33:11. Your checking is imperfect. "And Iaacob called the name of the place Penuel: for I have seen God face to face, and yet survived is my life. Blessed they of clean heart: for they will see God. All things were given to me by the Father of me: and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does know anyone the Father, except the Son, and to whomever will the Son reveal." Genesis 32:30; Matthew 5:8; 11:27. Please read John 14:21,23; I John 3:6.
---Eloy on 2/5/07


Eloy, I've noticed you throwing the word "trinty" around as if you're a trinitarian when you're not. And you also try to conceal the fact that you're a Oneness Pentecostal. You deceptively do this in attempts to mislead people into believing your heresy is biblical. It's not. You have been misled and you need to pray for truth and understanding.
---augua9846 on 2/5/07


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greetings,for johnny5.there will never be a final book written.Prior to Jesus, men read from scrolls,some known as the o.t. to us.Again revelation came and there is the n.t.God never ceases to revelate .God is an unceasing revelation.God will never be a found complete in the human mind.
---earl on 2/5/07


DePuTy, Prov 3:5,6; is correct, however there is no mention of a "trinity" in the whole bible.
---Johnny_5 on 2/5/07


Earl, Yes, I can see how you come up with a TRINITY God, however it is still not biblical. God is God, the Son is his first creation, the holy spirit is God's active force, the three being one, means they are in union with each other, just as husband and wife are in union with each other. The husband and wife are "one" but does that mean they are fused together? I don't think so, that is why I said, you speak as man speaks. God bless.
---Johnny_5 on 2/5/07


More on the corrupted verse of Matthew 28:19.

The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics states,

"The obvious explanation of the silence of the New Testament on the triune name, and the use of another formula in Acts and Paul, is that this other formula was the earlier, and that the triune formula is a later addition."
---Lari_S on 2/4/07


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Eloy, Should we not believe what God himself has said at Exodus 33:20? And he said, "Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me, and live." Or should we take the word of imperfect man who claims to have seen God? Let's remember that there are many gods, 1 Cor 8:5; For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many.) cont.
---Johnny_5 on 2/4/07


pt.2 to Eloy, I have done some cross referencing and found that god people claim to see is not God Almighty. Gen 16:7; Jg 6:22; If you note these people do not see God himself, but are seeing an "angel" of God. Even John 1:18 says, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. I have more, hopefully I have made my point though. God bless.
---Johnny_5 on 2/5/07


greetings.The truth of the trinity is training like rainbands in the sky.Saturating the mortal mind with increasing spirit consciousness and values;assurance of a spiritual springtime ahead.
---earl on 2/4/07


Mike again, why are you manipulating facts. To hide the historic evil of the catholic church, and their evil acts.
---jhonny on 2/4/07


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MikeM
I agree that many EVIL men have wrongfully used the Word of GOD (Bible) for their evil plots.
Does that change the bible or the it's meaning? Absolutely NOT! We ALL have an appointment with GOD, and will be JUDGED according to our works.
I'm pretty sure that ALL who have used his Word (bible) for evil intent are already paying the price in spiritual realm.
The word of GOD is EVERLASTING and until the time of the end, not a thing will change until all is fulfilled! The Bible!
---DePuTy on 2/4/07


.augusta, One God is truth, and the truth is not some repackaged thing as you have mockingly disgraced. You chose to believe a lie, but you are more judged for calling the truth a lie.
---Eloy on 2/4/07


Eloy: "The one true God is expressed in 3 aspects or manifestations."

Wrong. That is not the Christian dotrine of the Trinity. That's the ancient heresy of modalism regurgitated and repackaged in the name of "Oneness" Pentecostalism.
---augusta on 2/4/07


Deputy"If you disagree, it's not me with whom you have the problem but with GOD, for it is his Word"

Throug history many evil men have made such a statement. In the play "The Crucible" by Arthur Miller there was absolute relience on scripture for justification of evil acts, "Tis not I but holy writ thou speaketh against" - 3rd act.

When colonist in New England scalped( invented by whites)1000's of Indians Joshua was quoted-'cleansing' the land for the Lord.
---MikeM on 2/4/07


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Many people don't take the scriptures literal because they LIMIT Gods POWER.
Remember this folks - GOD created everything in existence, believers and non-believers belong to him. The entire UNIVERSE is his property, he created it. The holy trinity is literal because GOD wants it that way!

PROVERBS 3:5&6
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make you paths straight.
---DePuTy on 2/4/07


I have seen God more than once, and I know that I will see more of God. All of God's children see God's face; the carnal man whom is not seeking God will not see God's face, because with sin they separate themselves from my holy God and refuse to come to him, but instead they choose to remain in darkness and wrongly believe that all mankind are like they themselves.
---Eloy on 2/4/07


And Iaacob called the name of the place Penuel: for I have seen God face to face, and yet survived is my life. Blessed they of clean heart: for they will see God. All things were given to me by the Father of me: and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does know anyone the Father, except the Son, and to whomever will the Son reveal. Genesis 32:30; Matthew 5:8; 11:27. Please read John 14:21,23; I John 3:6.
---Eloy on 2/4/07


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