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Once Saved Always Saved

Everyone who believes the extrabiblical teaching 'Once saved always saved' how do you reconcile this with Hebrews 6:1-6? To me (I may be misunderstanding) these scriptures speak of one that has attained salvation, the power of the Holy Spirit & the blessings of God yet they have 'fallen away'.

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Robert:: That is what contrition, true contrition does.If its not,then its a false sense of security.which needs re evaluation one cannot delude Almighty God But it is possible to delude ones self, & lull your self into a false sense of Security.
---Emcee on 7/18/07

So i guess i am unforgiven for backsliding. If this were the case why do I still have a clear cut desire to follow Christ and never truly found happiness until i returned to Him. Oh and again explain the story of the prodigal son. Oh and we are saved by works and Christ, right, so why did Christ have to come die for sin if we can work for the salvation. And why does He say all who come to Me I will not cast out.
---Robert on 7/18/07

Moody writes this:
Total depravity defined negatively: it does not mean (1) depraved people cannot perform actions that are good in man's or God's sight.(2) that fallen man has no conscience judging between good and evil for him.(3) that people indulge in every form of sin to the greatest extent possible.

Depravity means that because of sins corruption there is nothing man can do to merit saving favor with God; total means that depravity has extended to his entire being.
---John_T on 2/6/07

Scriptures emphasize the depravity of man by mans continual sinning (Gen. 6:5; Jer. 17:9; Rom. 3:1018). The reason is that man is born a fallen creature with the pollution of sin (Ps. 51:5). Depravity also affirms the inability of man to do good (Matt. 7:1718; John 15:45; 1 Cor. 12:3).
---John_T on 2/6/07

Depravity further affirms mans inability to understand the good (Matt. 13:14; John 1:11; 8:43; Acts 16:14; 1 Cor. 1:18; 2:14; 2 Cor. 3:1218; Eph. 4:18).

Depravity also indicates man cannot desire the good (Matt. 7:18; John 3:3; 6:44; 8:43; 15:45; Eph. 2:1).

Total depravity indicates mans utter inability to do anything for his salvation; God must initiate the process if a person is to be saved.
---John_T on 2/6/07

#1 John T,
I am glad you concede at least "SOME" good
coming forth from Man. God's viewpoint is as
stated in Genesis 3:22 and was written for all
posterity to learn from and for remembrance.
Many do not concede to Man a mustard seed
of capacity for good but ascribe to Him an
Ocean of capacity for Evil and rebellion.
---Nana on 2/6/07

#2 John T,
What about as you state "the implication" and
about what Man can do for Salvation of his own?
What about the "Atonement"?
The Lord Jesus said:
Luke 5:32: "I came not to call the righteous, but
sinners to repentance." Can you see in that verse
that SOME were already right with God? I for
one do. How about Matthew 5:20?
---Nana on 2/6/07

#3 John T,
Salvation is twofold, for this life and for eternity.
This life of course we are living it and so were
those people while Jesus walked on earth. Those
sinners had a life but they were slaves to their
ignorance and concupiscence. What was the
prescription for that life? Matthew 19:17: "And
he said unto him, Why callest thou me good?
there is none good but one, that is, God: but if
thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
---Nana on 2/6/07

#4 John T,
Eternal life, beyond this one? For
that one we must get the "mind" that was in Christ;
Philippians 2:5. The only "Atonement" I believe
is in Christ Jesus being born a Man that we can see
how one lives and seeks God. The word
"Imputed" does not frequent my lips for I keep to:
Matthew 16:24: "Then said Jesus unto his disciples,
If any man will come after me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross, and follow me."
---Nana on 2/6/07

I know many people who say they are Christians, yet live a sinful lifestyle. There is more to just 'Once saved always saved'.
Many Christian's use the 'I'm already saved because of Jesus, so it doesn't matter what I do' -excuse, and continue to SIN!
GOD said because you are niether HOT nor COLD, I will spit you from my mouth (Revelation 3:14-22).
This is another reason why believe that GOD's O.T. 10 commandments still stand! We are saved by Christ, only because through him we can be born again!
---DePuTy on 2/6/07

nana, you mix things. Created good in the eyes of God is NOT the same as doing good.

Genesis 1 does not teach about the sin nature of man, but looks at creation from God's viewpoint.

The difference is imense, and the consequences of each position are greater. The implication of your position is that man can save himself via good works.

Man is capable of doing SOME good things, but if he were capable of doing good unto salvation, Jesus Atonement would be unnecessary.
---John_T on 2/5/07

#1 lisa,
My point is not quite exactly your point.
All that God created in the beginning he
"saw that it was good "
Man obtained the knowledge of Good
and Evil through disobedience. God had
that knowledge and it would seem he just
wanted Man to "be". The Creator made
separation of elements with a judgement
and distinction of Goodness.
---Nana on 2/4/07

#2 lisa,
Man's new adquired knowledge put Man
in a position to judge even God's Creation
as Good or Evil. For all of those that say
"... who is the Pot to talk back to the Potter?";
I will refer them to
Genesis 3:
22: "And the LORD God said, Behold, the
man is become as one of us, to know good
and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand,
and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and
live for ever:"
---Nana on 2/4/07

#3 lisa,
On point, you teach that Man is
incapable of anything Good and I totally
disagree with that point on account that
fist of all Man was and is part of God's
"Good" Creation and second of all because
Man has the same knowledge of Good
and Evil as God and them ("as one of us")
have. So Man is quite capable to be and
to know and recognize and to do Good
from the onset. Maybe yo can see now
what I mean when I said "Good is good
---Nana on 2/4/07

#4 lisa,
Some other time if it happens, I will comment
on that Philipians quote " will and to do...".
---Nana on 2/4/07

" Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure"
It is by God's power that we are able to do and to will and the reason given is, for God's good pleasure. Yes, many obeyed in the presence of Paul, and now while he is going to be gone, he incourages them to continue to obey what he taught them.
---lisa on 2/4/07

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Amen Lisa.No one is good Matthew 19:17.A lot of unsaved people often do selfless good and for no personal reward or hope thereof.Fact is our works will be tested by fire and only that which is of God will endure and be taken into account for reward.Only what comes from God is pleasing and acceptable to Him never mind how "good" it looks to men.Even Satan has the ability to present himself as the angel of light?So,everyone can do good but not according to God.
---Martin on 2/4/07

Nana, you are correct from that passage you gave. My point. Everything good comes from above, and that is why I said if there is any good in us, it is from the work of Christ in us. If we were not saved, everything that we think is good would be sin since anything without faith in Christ is sin, for it has its own agenda. Self, and not for God. To say we are good as Christians, we give the glory to God and take no credit for anything ourselves.
---lisa on 2/3/07

2. If we ask the question, why do we give thanks to God in our prayers? it is because by faith we we depend on Him for all things and not of ourselves. What good would it be to be in Christ and be depended upon us? No purpose at all. True Faith in Christ acknowledges that we are trusting in the hope we have in Him. Everything for a believer is by faith in Him. On our knees we give thanks to God for whatever reason it might be, but we are to thank Him for everything.
---lisa on 2/3/07

3. My whole purpose for answering is for our relience in Him and Him along. Praying for our kids salvation only proves that it is only through Him that our kids can be saved. We cannot pray to our kids and ask them to be saved, because they don't have the power to change their own hearts, God has to enable them through Conviction in the word of God. Their salvation is also dependent upon God as is everyone's. Our faith is dependent upon that salvation promise He gives us.
---lisa on 2/3/07

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4. Faith holds on to that promise of salvation that will it will come. Nothing else other then faith can hold to that salvation. Nothing we do or ever will do, will be enough to get us through the gates of heaven, but our faith in Christ will.
---lisa on 2/3/07

James 1:17: "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above,
and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no
variableness, neither shadow of turning."
Good is good period. Good is treasured in a good man's heart and
from there he draws. Remember the Good Samaritan? What does
"faith" have to do with doing good?
---NanaH on 2/3/07

"by which also you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain." (1 Co 15:2)

Ifs and more ifs.
---augusta on 2/3/07

IF you hold fast, and IF you keep up the faith, and IF you abide in me, and If you stand firm, and then Hebrews 6. That is undeniable proof that one can fall away, and not be brought back.Hardening ones heart to a point of no return. I always used "sealed with the Holy Spirit" and I will never leave you, and nothing can separate us from the love of my defense against losing salvation. I might also add we are not saved until we die.We do not have salvation until we die.
---jill on 2/2/07

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When Jesus instructed Nicodemus about flesh and spirit He said you must be "Born Again". The question, once saved always saved, can only be answered by understanding what happened when you were "Born Again". "Flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit."
---Tom on 2/2/07

Jana, Are You from Australia? You said "mate", and that is so cute! I love the way Australian people talk. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 2/2/07

Righeous living should be for all Christians. That is comes from us is for sure, but it comes from us only because of the Holy Spirit in our lives who gives us the desire to do more for God. Otherwise our works are meaningless. For our own merits never earned anyone salvation. Good works is the evidence of our faith. "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our sufficiency is from God" 1 Corinthians 3:5.
---lisa on 2/2/07

lisa, my disagreements are not with your comments, but with parts of Catholic theology. I only mentioned in passing so not to create a side subject.

I was just putting a separation between what's agreeable and what is not.
---TDG on 2/2/07

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Robert speaks of remorse. Is remorse for sin, evidence of being a Christian. Can a detachment stategy be applied to remorse, and one still be a Christian. Again, do we need to feel remorse for sin to show our evidence of being a Christian as Robert has addressed. Quote "..and sin without remorse are not truly followers of Christ."
---jhonny on 2/2/07

lisa wrote: TDG, my reference that the book of Hebrews..

I agree. I was just adding it was to Christian Jews. With the exception of the pastor epistles, all epistles where written to the Church. You additional comments address this quite well.
---TDG on 2/2/07

2. If you notice that the present tense is used in (5:1-4; 7:21,23,27,28,; 8:3-5, 13; 9:6-9,13,25; 10:1,3,4,8,11) suggest that the Levitical priesthood and sacrificial system were still in operation when the epistle was composed. Emphases on the Levitical Priesthood and on sacrfices, as well as the absence of any references to the Gentiles, support the fact that a community of Hebrews (Jews) were been addressed. If you have other information for me, please correct me.
---lisa on 2/2/07

3. TDG, I also find that a proper interpretaion of this epistle requires us to recongnice that it addresses 3 distinct groups of Jews, believers, unbelievers who were intellectually convinced of the gospel, and unbelievers who were attracted by the gospel and the person of Christ but who had reached no final conviction about Him by the Holy Spirit. And I believe the failure of many is not acknowledging that these groups existed and leads many to inconsistent or contradictions in other books.
---lisa on 2/2/07

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Robert, you want to follow christ right? Right.When u have accepted Him n baptised etc, then u will want to live righteously and sin no more cos U now should know good n evil n keep away from it n not do it when it faces u. Thats what it means u have to be good. U cannot rely on Jesus to do the work of being good 4u mate. U do your own work by living right n shun evil.
---jana on 2/2/07

TDG, my reference that the book of Hebrews was to the Hebrews is from information given in the book itself. This were Hebrew (Jews) or Gentiles. But since the epistle is filled with references to Hebrew history and religion and do not address any particular Gentile or pagan practice, the traditional title has been maintain to be for the Hebrews, believers and unbelievers attending the church.
---lisa on 2/2/07

Please find another blog name than "Observer". You are stealing mine, and I've been her a long time.

Perhaps you are my clone, then?
---Observer on 2/1/07

"Maybe Mrs. Morgan would like to explain if Heb 10:23 is true?Why does this Scripture tell us to hold fast to our profession of faith and not our Salvation?" -- "The Faith" and the saint's [profession of It] has everything to do with salvation, The Faith is the pure Word,the [pure] gospel message of Christ and It [saves], this is why it's so important to CONTINUE to ABIDE In It. God's [true] people live and die by It, It's their [testimony].(Revelation 3:11)(Revelation 12:11).
---Mrs._Morgan on 2/1/07

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I've taken note of the borderlines.
I have observed, closely.

---Observer on 2/1/07

I read it again. I compared. I made mental notes.
I did see a borderline bully.
---Observer on 2/1/07

Tom, in refuting the SDAs on the "suicide blog" I was driven to exegete what a cultish poster left out.

I think you will like it.
---John_T on 2/1/07

Only by understanding the first principles of the doctrine of Christ can you understand salvation.
---Tom on 2/1/07

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Lisa, you will notice some of the same things in this blog that I PMed you about.Read it again, then compare what you see

I urge you to make mental notes of borderlines, and avoid entaglement with barbed wire.
---John_T on 2/1/07

Trace, if you refuse to read the context of the passages, it is your loss. You will never be able to understand the passages correctly. If you take a passage out of context you will lose the intrinsic meaning God wanted to convey to you. You make such comments only because of your stance against something you don't believe, and compromise God's Word in the process. But it's still your choice to do as you like, since it is your own personal relationship with God.
---lisa on 2/1/07

2. You said "you wouldn't walk 20 ft." How far will you walk to learn God's Word is the question? Have you given only lip service to your confession of faith? You see if the Holy Spirit is in a believer, He, gives the desire to learn about the very God we have given our life's to. That desire should be in every believer no matter his or her stance on any one subject in Scripture. Not all believers are in the same level, but the desire should be there. Context is so important and when someone
---lisa on 2/1/07

What is amazing lisa is that your one of those people!
exzucuh on 1/31/07

I disagree. I think Lisa is speaking what she understands. If there is a disagreement, then we should address the comments and not the person.

Shouldn't the objective be to dialog about the topic and not make accusations?

I see the book of Hebrew for the Christian Jews directly, for all others indirectly.

All scripture is given by God and is profitable
---TDG on 2/1/07

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3. mentions that to help the believer, you turn around and say it is not important and that you would not walk 20ft. Instead of wanting to know more as to how to understand Scripture which should be in everyone's heart, you turn around and condemn it becuase of your stance to OSAS. It has nothing to do with OSAS. It has everything to do with learning correctly. No one forces you to love and learn about God, it has to come from your heart.
---lisa on 2/1/07

4. Context and why it is important; In Mark 7 for example, Jesus upbraids the Pharisees soundly for their concept of corban. In the practice of corban a man could declare that all his money would go to the temple treasury when he died, and that, since his money belonged to God, he was therefore no longer responsible for maintaining his aging parents. Jesus argues that men were using this Pharisaic tradtion to render God's Command (the fifth commament) of no account.
---lisa on 2/1/07

5. Without a knowledge of the curlture context practice of corban, we would be unable to understand this passages in Mark. General and Historical-cultural context is very important to get the true meaning of passages. Who was speaking to whom, what was happening at the time, and who was been addressed when the writer spoke and wrote. Were they believers, or unbelievers? Were Jesus words to the apostles or to everyone around Him? All is very important.
---lisa on 2/1/07

The personal 'contexts' taken from library books, literature could be used as a secret tactic to get the 'enemy' to talk. Forced to sit in a room and read them for months; an endless dripping on your head. Brainwashing. They're not healthy for your brain or head. I won't be reading anymore of them, not if I can help it.
---Trace on 1/31/07

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Trace: "I wouldn't walk 20 feet to hear anyone talk about their private context ever again.

Context and exegesis are NOT private interpertations. They are public, derived from the words of the Word. Ignoring either of them are simply invalid.

All Scripture is surrounded by other Scripture, providing a context that we MUST NOT IGNORE. When we do, we go off onto any whimsical tangent, and not constrained sometimes by either common sense or systematic theology.
---John_T on 1/31/07

If I never, ever, hear the term, "people just don't understand the context of scripture" one more time, from someone who uses William Shakespeare to interpret the Bible; it will be one time too many.

If I never hear "I'm the only one using Scripture", and "you must understand the context, OSAS", ever again, it will be too soon.

I wouldn't walk 20 feet to hear anyone talk about their private context ever again.
---Trace on 1/31/07

What is amazing lisa is that your one of those people!
---exzucuh on 1/31/07

Maybe Mrs. Morgan would like to explain if Heb 10:23 is true? Why does this Scripture tell us to hold fast to our profession of faith and not our Salvation?
Mrs. Morgan as I have asked you and Eloy before and you have not answered, Have you ever lost your Salvation? What sin do you commit to lose it?
How did you get it back? Or, have you?
---Elder on 1/31/07

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"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

It is clear the sacrifice hear Is Jesus. Jesus was sacrificed once and only once. If he is saying there remains no more sacrifice for sins left he means you can't go back to the old self, the disobedient enemy of God you once were after having accepted Jesus.
---Matthew on 1/31/07

You want to be saved? Have faith in Christ. Yield to God and make God first in your life. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Which are those who have crucified their old selves and through the glorious power of Jesus blood have been sanctified and made holy in God's sight. That is the truth. Follow or don't follow it. That is up to you.
---Matthew on 1/31/07

To answer your question about backsliding. many people commit two different sins. those by ommission and those by commission. we know when we have done something wrong and repent of it so we do not make the Savior shed another drop of blood. when we commit sins we do not know about, the Saviors grace is sufficient providing we do our best to live a Christ-like life. if we do what the Savior would do in every situation, we do not have to worry about backsliding.
---Dave on 1/31/07

we will live every day as though it is our last and glorify God. the problem rises when people NOT GOD, tell us it is all right to do things that are evil in God's eyes. "Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the light, He who comes unto him shall have eternal life." He is our example, NOT ministers, pastors, teachers,priests,professors of religion or any other man or woman. by learning all we can about Jesus Christ and His teachings, we have our roadmap for life.
---Dave on 1/31/07

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What is tragic Morgan is that people refuse to read the whole context of Scripture and come out with some rediculous understandings. Those are people that look for lopholes in God's word to preach something that is totally untrue. The reason it is called the book of Hebrews is because it was direct to them. Emphases on the Levitical priesthood and on sacrifices, as well as the absence of any references to the Gentiles, support the conclusion that a community of Hebrews was the recipient of the epistle.
---lisa on 1/31/07

2. Although these Hebrews were primarily converts to Christ, there were probably a number of unbelievers among them. Who were attracted by the message of salvation, but who had not yet made a full commitment of faith in Christ. One thing is clear from the contents of the epistle, the community of Hebrews was facing the possibility of intensified persecution (10:32-39). As they confronted this possibility, the Hebrews were tempted to cast aside any identification with Christ.
---lisa on 1/31/07

3. It is extremly important that you read the whole context before making judgement. All Scripture has a purpose when we understand who is been spoken to, why, and what was happening at the time the passage was written or else you will take every word out of context.
---lisa on 1/31/07

"Book of Hebrew directed to the Jewish nation. Where in the bible did that say?" --That's a good question Jana, I have only heard that here on the OSAS blogs, some like to [erroneously] use (Hebrews 10:26,27) in regard to that [fable], it's really tragic. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 1/30/07

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*So you are telling me after we accept Christ we need to be perfect.*

Not exactly Robert. The only thing that we can do is make choices. Everything else we are able to do comes form God. Does God want you to be perfect? Yes! "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Does he mean like Christ? God wants you to be as much like Christ as possible. How do you do that?
---Matthew on 1/29/07

2) By yielding to God. Romans 6: 13 "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." How do you yield to God. Give your life to Him! Tell Him your will be done not mine and ask Him to change you unto righteousness. Why do you think they started calling Christians, Christians? Because they reminded everyone of Christs love.
---Matthew on 1/29/07

I know many people who say they are Christians yet live a sinful lifestyle. There is more to just 'Once saved always saved'. GOD said because you are niether HOT nor COLD, I will spit you from my mouth (Revelation 3:14-22). If your are going to serve GOD serve him everyday by obeying his commands and living as SIN FREE as POSSIBLE (Luke 11:4).
---DePuTy on 1/29/07

3) Christians display the Godly fruits(Galations 5:22-26). We don't want the fruit of the flesh(Galations 5:19-21). Those who do such things without repentance will face God's wrath. God's power is powerfull. "For with God all things are possible." If you don't let Him help you to stop sinning you are fighting with the sanctification process and are destroying the purpose the Holy Spirit comes within us! To make us Holy and therefore blameless before the Lord.
---Matthew on 1/29/07

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4. Especially in the immediate context, Judas was in view, but the imagery extends from him to all those who make a profession of faith in Christ but do not actually posses salvation as many do in church. The image of no-fruit bearing branches being burned pictures eschatological judment and eternal rejection (Ezek. 15:6-8).
---lisa on 1/29/07

Book of Hebrew directed to the Jewish nation. Where in the bible did that say? We are the followers of Christ/Truth so the bible is our manual for righteous living and is written for our understanding. OT & NT is 4 our guide with OT looking 2ward the coming as a king and the NT looking 2wards His Return 2 take us home. You cannot do away with either one.
---jana on 1/29/07

Matthew you gave a good passage in 1 Colossians about who we were before while lost and how we have been reconcile by God and how He will present you holy and blameless and above reproach in His Sight. And verse 23 clearly shows it is by faith along that will clear your passage to His Kingdom. If you don't hold to that firmly, only shows you didn't have true faith to hold firmly and were never one of His.
---lisa on 1/29/07

Many use Heb 6 in error to "prove" you can lose your Salvation. Notice that if you could lose Salvation it would be impossible to be "resaved."
People who misunderstand the Eternal Security issue also misunderstand, Chastisement, the Doctrine of Salvation, God's role in keeping the Saint and a host of other major doctrines.
By the way, what sin would cause someone to lose their salvation?
I notice those who say you can lose Salvation claim they have never lost theirs.
---Elder on 1/29/07

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Matthew 1 Corinthians 15:2, clearly shows that those with faith will hold firmly to God's word. Why? Because they have faith in His word. Why wouldn't they hold firmly? because they do not have true faith and have believed in vain. It's not speaking about obedience in works but having faith in His word that constitudes His true faith.
---lisa on 1/29/07

#1:The thing that many do not pay close attention to is how sin make you feel and/or think.

If you sin against God, you are separated from God Isa 58. If you repent of your sin against God, God is faithful and just to forgive.

Christianity is more of a journey, than a destination.

The bible states the backslider in heart will be filled with his ways.

What or who is in you will show itself. You will either persevere or you will give up.
---TDG on 1/29/07

#2:The difference between a live person and a dead person in Christ is that the live person will always get back up. There is no other choice. He/She/they will persevere.

Statements in scripture like if the fall away, if you hold fast can just as well mean the sign you Christian is that you hold fast, that you don't fall away.

I've told this story before.
---TDG on 1/29/07

#3:Ray Stedman had a brother in the church he pastored who said something like "I just can't take it any longer. I can't explain it, but the excitement for God is all but gone. I don't want to go on in Christ any longer."

Pastor Ray Stedman replied "well, if you feel that way about it, then quit. If you just can't take any longer, then just quit."

There was a long pause and the brother finally spoke and said.

"You're right Pastor, I can't quit"
---TDG on 1/29/07

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2. Matthew, the context of John 15: and why Christ gave that extended Metaphor of the vine and branches, Here Jesus set forth the bases of Christian living. Jesus used the imagery fruit of the vine used commonly in the Old Testament to demonstrated not only what a true believer was but also in context of Judas and the rest of the diciples. Jesus specificly indentified Himself as the "true vine" and the Fathers as the "vinedresser" or caretaker of the vine.
---lisa on 1/29/07

3. The vine has two types of branches 1. brances that bear fruit (v. 2,8) 2. branches that do not (v. 2,6). The braches that bear fruit are genuine believers. Though in the immediate context the focus is upon the 11 faithful disciples, the imagery Metaphor also encompasses all believers down through the ages. The branches that do not bear fruit are those who profess to believe, but their lack of fruit indicates genuine salvation has never taken place and they have no life from the vine.
---lisa on 1/29/07

Jesus taught us how to pray (Luke 11:4). He made it clear that we ought to ask for forgiveness of sin everyday as we forgive others. In Luke 21:36 we learn that Jesus makes it clear that we ought to live as if he (Rapture) was coming RIGHT NOW! This means we are not perfect but live as sin free as possible, if not you will miss it.
---Juan6693 on 1/28/07

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