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Is This The Anti-Christ

Does this verse identify all Moslems, Orthodox Jews and Jehovah witnesses as being antichrist? "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."

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 ---mima on 10/26/06
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It is meanings antichrists. Those who do not see Jesus as being the Son of God are antichrists. They are not THE Antichrist. The antichrist is in Rev. in the end times. Who I believe will rise out of Islam. It makes perfect since when you look into it.
---Tammy on 5/31/08


There are no other Religeons that are of God.Religeons are man-made,for our righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God,but Christianity is of Christ.There is only ONE way to the Father,not many.One is either born-again by the Blood of Christ or lost in their sin.Godly sorrow worketh repentance that need not be repented of.Marvel not that I say unto you,Ye MUST be born again.Religeon is not salvation.
---Tommy on 1/1/08


When the Son of man came the first time, he made it clear that he has sheep who belong to another flock, and that when he comes again, they who know him, will accept him as their Leader. (Those from other religions.)
---duke on 12/16/07


then you better add all mankind that is not saved.
---willow on 4/25/07


SandraW, I said that I didn't recall ever being prideful (at least not in the manner in which you accuse me of) because I've never had any reason to be prideful. If you knew me personally you would understand where I'm coming from.
---Kay on 11/6/06




Kay, you said you've never been prideful in your life? That is pride in itself. ALL have had a touch of pride here and there on occasion.
---SandraW on 11/6/06


SandraW, I don't recall ever being prideful in my life. I've never had a reason to be prideful. I don't mind if others disagree with me. I'm not omniscient. I don't have all the answers. But I think others here seem to think that their explanation of things is absolutely right where mine is absolutely wrong. I was simply saying that both of our answers regarding the particular subject can be correct. They obviously disagreed. But, oh well. Thats their right to do so.
---Kay on 11/5/06


"Much of Revelation is symbolic, and you have to know the language of scripture to be able to understand it."
True. Much is symbolic, but that doesn't mean all of it is symbolic. I do understand the language of scripture. The book of Revelation is one of my favorites to study.
---Kay on 11/5/06


Kay, You seem to be a woman who doesn't like anyone to disagree with you. We all can learn from one another. Pride says, "I know all the answers. No thank you for yours".

I find this attitude in my bible study class with those who have read the Left Behind Series. Much of Revelation is symbolic, and you have to know the language of scripture to be able to understand it.
---SandraW on 11/4/06


"Kay, Please look in your Strongs and you will find the word Woman and Women are the same word."

Charles, but this passage specifically says "women". Using "woman" in this passage still supports my view. "These are they which were not defiled with WOMAN; for they are virgins." Its still showing sexual purity & celibacy. I don't understand why its so hard to believe that this passage may be referring to both the physical and the spiritual. I believe it is.
---Kay on 11/2/06




Kay, Please look in your Strongs and you will find the word Woman and Women are the same word.

As a teacher of The Revelation I will have to agree with kathr in this one. Keeping the whole verse in context, the main theme in the verse are those who follow the Lamb.
---Charles on 11/2/06


(Matthew 24:34)(Matthew 24:37-41) (2 Peter 3:1-4)
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/2/06


"Understand that many scriptures refer directly to more than one thing at the same time."

Okebaram, thats true.
---Kay on 11/2/06


the key is the seventh trumpet, how can we return with Christ after the seventh trumpet if we are still here? scripture tells of all the things we will see before we return with Christ. Read again.
Peace be with you
---Kent on 11/2/06


"Kay, those 144,000 are not virgins in the sense you may be referring to. But virgin's in the sense that they refuse to worship anything other than the Lamb of God. Their hearts are pure. Not to give argument, but there are many who see the spiritual here more than the physical."

kathr4453, the passage says "These are they which were not defiled with woman; for they are virgins (Rev.14:4). It could actually refer to both physical and spiritual.
---Kay on 11/2/06


The verse says "not defiled with woman", not "a woman".

kathr4453, it says "..not defiled with womEn.."
---Kay on 11/2/06


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"If it were the physical, then there would be a contradiction of scripture that would say the marriage bed is defiled and sinful."

Revelation never says that these men were married. There is no mention of them having wives. I believe that "not defiled with women" refers to their celibacy and purity. After all, they follow Christ every where He goes and reigns with Him during the millennium. So they don't have time to be married.
---Kay on 11/2/06


"2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

kathr4453, like I've mentioned, it could refer to both physical and spiritual purity.
---Kay on 11/2/06


Kay: "Jack, the wrath of God is both the Tribulation period and Hell. But 1 Thessalonians 1:10;5:9 is referring to the Tribulation."

1 Thessalonians 1:10 & 5:9 refer to BOTH the tribulation and hell. Understand that many scriptures refer directly to more than one thing at the same time. The rapture is a true bible mystery, and it's not that far away! Both the rapture and the tribulation, like so many other center events, are foretold across both the OT and the NT!
---Okebaram on 11/1/06


Kay #3 One more thought.

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/06


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Kay, those 144,000 are not virgins in the sense you may be referring to. But virgin's in the sense that they refuse to worship anything other than the Lamb of God. Their hearts are pure. Not to give argument, but there are many who see the spiritual here more than the physical.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/06


Kay,#2
The verse says "not defiled with woman", not "a woman". If it were the physical, then there would be a contradiction of scripture that would say the marriage bed is defiled and sinful. The "woman" is the one who has " "Mystery Babylon" on her forehead. God has placed His mark on theirs. Just food for thought.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/06


"Kay: walk into any megachurch where thousands have a seat. Answer me truthfully, how many of those "followers" will make it to heaven? at the end of your seven year period?"

Steveng, what does this have to do with my point of view?
---Kay on 10/31/06


"No Israelite or Christian in history were ever raptured."

Steveng,are you sure? Jesus,Elijah and Enoch were raptured.
2 Kings 2:11-"..and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Gen.5:24-"And Enoch walked with God:and he was not;for God took him."

"Read Revelation about how the mark of God will keep Christians from his wrath."

If you're referring to Rev. 7, those individuals are the 144,000 virgin men from the 12 tribes of Israel.
---Kay on 10/31/06


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"The wrath referred to here is eternal wrath in hell, not to a passing 7 year period."

Jack, the wrath of God is both the Tribulation period and Hell. But 1 Thessalonians 1:10;5:9 is referring to the Tribulation.
---Kay on 10/31/06


"God's spoiled brats, the Rapturists, reply, 'You'd better believe it!' "-Jack

No, not spoiled brats; just loved children.
---Kay on 10/31/06


There is THE AntiChrist (the one man who will try to rule the world during the coming last days)and there are antichrists (just regular folks who don't believe Jesus) much the same as there is THE Sabbath (the day God himself proclaimed) and there are other sabbaths.
---Steveng on 10/31/06


**So why do today's Christians think they are more special than anyone else in history? **

Isaac Watts wrote:
Shall I be carried to the clouds on flow'ry beds of ease
While others fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas?

God's spoiled brats, the Rapturists, reply, "You'd better believe it!"
---Jack on 10/31/06


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Antichrist is anyone who doesn't believe Jesus came in the flesh. that's simple. THE antichrist could be anyone and there have been many likely canidates throughout History, starting with Nero and the last person I heard a compelling case for was USSR's Gorbichov. (I don't put much stock in labling though) Pre-Trib theology is the newest and least accerate esscotalogy around. Mainly because those that believe it don't know much about church History. Pre-trib is about 150 yrs old.
---Jared on 10/30/06


Kay: walk into any megachurch where thousands have a seat. Answer me truthfully, how many of those "followers" will make it to heaven? at the end of your seven year period?

No Israelite or Christian in history were ever raptured. Not Noah, not the Israelites during the plagues, not Job, not one person. So why do today's Christians think they are more special than anyone else in history? That's so vain. Read Revelation about how the mark of God will keep Christians from his wrath.
---Steveng on 10/30/06


**
Jack,the Bible promises that we (Christians) will not have to endure God's wrath. So why do you think God will make us endure the Tribulation period after promising us that we aren't "appointed to wrath"?**

The wrath referred to here is eternal wrath in hell, not to a passing 7 year period.
---Jack on 10/29/06


"Kay: Christians will be fooled by the signs of the end times and the anti-Christ that even the elect will be fooled, if that would be possible."

Steveng, the Bible makes it very clear that the followers of Jesus Christ will NOT be fooled by the Anti-Christ.
---Kay on 10/29/06


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"There is NOTHING, repeat NOTHING in 1 Thess that says this happens BEFORE the Tribulation."

Jack,the Bible promises that we (Christians) will not have to endure God's wrath. So why do you think God will make us endure the Tribulation period after promising us that we aren't "appointed to wrath"?
---Kay on 10/29/06


"Rapturists redefine "descend" to mean 'Christ does a U-turn in midair.'"

Jesus is descending out from His Heaven down to meet us IN THE AIR. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 says that we are going to meet Jesus in the air. We are going up to Him. This passage isn't referring to when Jesus returns to the Earth to reign for 1000 years.
---Kay on 10/29/06


Kay: Christians will be fooled by the signs of the end times and the anti-Christ that even the elect will be fooled, if that would be possible.
---Steveng on 10/29/06


PEOPLE! Jesus will return. He promised it.

However He did not promise it according to JN Darby (pre trib, premillinnial) Nor according to any other position, mid trib, or post trib OR amillennial.

EACH have support among Evangelicals, and NONE is a measure of being a Christian or heathen.

THEREFORE IT IS A NON-ESSENTIAL! Let's cut some slack here, OK?
---JohnT on 10/29/06


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There is NOTHING, repeat NOTHING in 1 Thess that says this happens BEFORE the Tribulation.

"Descend" means to go from up to down.

Rapturists redefine "descend" to mean "Christ does a U-turn in midair."

It is US who do the U-Turn, meeting the Lord in the air, and escoring Him as He returns to earth.
---Jack on 10/29/06


Jack, 1 Thess.4:16,17 says "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel,and with the trump of God:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds,to MEET the Lord IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
*CAUGHT =catch(away,up),pluck,take(by force),to take for oneself,to lift;to take up;away with
*RAPTURE =a state or experience of being carried away.
---Kay on 10/28/06


Jack, the Bible teaches that Christians will not have to face the wrath of God. The Tribulation is part of the wrath of God. "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the WRATH of the Lamb:For the great day of his WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?"-Rev.6:16-17
---Kay on 10/28/06


1 Thess.5:9-"For God hath not appointed us to WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thess.1:10-"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which DELIVERED US FROM THE WRATH TO COME."
Luke 21:28-"And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift your heads; for your redemption drawth nigh."
---Kay on 10/28/06


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Morgan: How many Christians believe that they have the one truth? How many Christians say they have an honest heart? How many Christians believe that they are the only ones who obey God? But yet all have different doctrines that they believe. Very rare do you have any two Chritians believe exactly the same way.
---Steveng on 10/28/06


"Kay: If the rapture is totally Biblical, why do so many Christians debate it?"

Christians debate A LOT of biblical teachings. Thats why there are so many denominations. Everyone has their own opinions.

Oh, and a born-again Christian will NOT bow the knee to the Anti-Christ and receive the Mark of the Beast. The Bible clearly states that ANYONE who receives the Mark will spend eternity in Hell. Do you believe that some born-again believers will spend eternity in Hell?
---Kay on 10/28/06


steveng, What subject have Christian's NOT debated about? There is only ONE TRUTH, and God will reveal It only to the honest hearted and the obedience, not ALL Christian's are honest hearted, and not ALL Christian's are obedient. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 10/28/06


Kay: If the rapture is totally Biblical, why do so many Christians debate it? The rapture theory causes divisions among Christians so how could it be a Christian doctrine? There are at least four different rapture theories which one is it? Is it really something to debate over? What does Jesus say is more important, debating doctrine or helping people and being the light of the world. Any debate over doctrine shows the world how arrogant Christians are.
---steveng on 10/28/06


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**Plus, the pre-trib rapture doctrine is totally biblical.**

Why was it never taught before 1830?

Jesus said, "I pray that You not take them out of the world, but keep them safe from the evil one."

The Rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus! Take us out of this world."

Look up

Boulos Iskander

on the net, and read all the side links about Christians suffering RIGHT NOW in Islam countries.

There is no rapture for them, is there?
---Jack on 10/28/06


Part 2:

In the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13, Jesus says that BOTH grow together until the harvest--the end of the world--and then the TARES are gathered first.

The Rapturist says that the WHEAT is gathered 7 days (or 1007 days) before harvest time.

Who is right: the Rapturist or Jesus?

Furthermore, in the same chapter, with the parable of the dragnet, what goes sailing through the air: the good fish or the bad fish?
---Jack on 10/28/06


"Those who are waiting for a pre-trib Rapture will be among the first to fall down and worship Antichrist."
That was a silly thing to say.
Why would those born again worship an earthly being? We're hidden with God in Christ Jesus. We're going to return with Him to reign and rule when He sets up the Kingdom promised to Israel!
Acts 1:6&7.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/06


"Those who are waiting for a pre-trib Rapture will be among the first to fall down and worship Antichrist."

Oh, now that is just silly! The Bible says that those who are born again will not worship the Anti-Christ. Plus, the pre-trib rapture doctrine is totally biblical.
---Kay on 10/27/06


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If the church does'nt begin to see the anti-christ within it's own walls it will be removed alright Jesus will come in an hour when you think not and throw these tares where there is weeping and nashing of teeth.
---Exzucuh on 10/27/06


Satan, in his ever increasing arsenal of God denying games, is happy when just one person turns his back on God or starts to question His Word. He must be doing cartwheels upon the tips of the flames of Hell and crying out in hysterical joy with the large percentage of people who believe in the pre-trib rapture, based upon one man's interpretation in the mid 1800s and marketed and made popular by the Left Behind novels/fables.
---Steveng on 10/27/06


There will be a time when Christians will receive the Mark of the Beast thinking in their minds that it can't be the Mark mentioned in Revelation because they were not raptured. Get back to reading the Word, read it from beginning to end, allowing the Holy Spirit to bring understanding. Put on the full armour of God to protect you during the soon to start end times, if we are not already in it.
---Steveng on 10/27/06


Reading the Bible from beginning to end - without concordances, novels, Christian opinions, and other reference books - forms a solid foundation of knowing God. By the time you finish the Bible, you'll have far less questions than if you jump around the book verse by verse, much like most Christians do today. Read the Bible not as an educated adult, but through the eyes of a child. The Bible is God's resume and the more you read the closer your relationship with God becomes.
---Steveng on 10/27/06


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and when your relationship with God congeals, He will reveal to you things not written in the Bible.
---Steveng on 10/27/06


** The anti-Christ will NOT be revealed until the church is removed,**

Those who are waiting for a pre-trib Rapture will be among the first to fall down and worship Antichrist.
---Jack on 10/27/06


This passage is referring to "AN" anti-christ..not "THE" Anti-Christ.
---Kay on 10/27/06


The anti-Christ will NOT be revealed until the church is removed, so stop trying to figure it out. When you think you've solved the mystery, you are nothing but wrong.
---Crystal on 10/27/06


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The writings are from John the Elder in 1st John 2:22, but to get the feel of it you need to read all of chapter 2. He is writing from a prospective that the return of Christ would be in his lifetime which of course has not occurred. So the applicability of mima's application to specif groups is problematics as it could be applied to individual as well as many groups in subsequent history but John was likely referring to the Roman Government at that time.
---notlaw99 on 10/27/06


mima; Why just "Orthadox Jews"? Conservative and Modern Jews also deny that Jesus is the Christ(Anointed) That takes in the entire State of Israel! Is that what you're implying?
---1st_cliff on 10/26/06


That verse descibes any antichrist that rears it's ugly head.If the decription fits any organized religion, or person, then the verse itself judges what they are. All we have to do is see if they don't line up with the real Word of God and do line up with what Antichrist is. We only need to become "fruit inspectors" to scrutinize, what they produce.
---Darlene_1 on 10/26/06


Yes, those who deny Jesus as God who came in the flesh is an antichrist or under his bondage. You are free if you recieve the Son into your heart. An antichrist is one who denies the Son or says he is an another "Jesus".

Rw
---Richard on 10/26/06


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