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Five Point Calvantist

Please will someone, lovingly explain what is a Five Point Calvanist?

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 ---Kim on 11/5/06
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I've never heard of that, but I do know what Five-point Calvinism is:

"TULIP" Theology:

T--total depravity
U--unmerited election
L--limited atonement
I--irresistable grace
P--perseverance of the saints

(It helps if you spell it properly.)
---Jack on 10/31/07

Bruce: Neither verse destroys the thesis.
In what respect is God not willing...that any should perish...?

A loving God DOES want all of humanity to be in heaven.
But a just and holy God permits only justified, holy believers there.

The Rev passage asks 2Qs: Who makes people thirsty, and who allows them to hear? Jesus taught parables for those who would hear, but not hear.
---John_T on 1/23/07

All your reasoning about election is undone with these two verses.
2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
---Bruce5656 on 1/23/07

Revelation 22:17, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."
---Bruce5656 on 1/23/07

Here is the key to getting the order of my posts.:

Do the mumbers first.
The letters are part of post 5

MODS: Thanks for posting it all
---John_T on 1/23/07

(4) God, being all-powerful is able to do as he pleases with whomever or whatever he chooses. And being a God who will never deny himself, he always acts in accordance to his divine attributes, never acting contrary to any of them. For example, God is good all the time, and all the time, God is good. Thus he is never the author of evil, but is always sovereign over it, allowing his good will to be accomplished despite the vicissitudes of evil men on earth.
---John_T on 1/22/07

(3) Men are elected to salvation, to the adoption of sons, to be holy and without blame before him in love (2 Thess. 2:13; Gal. 4:4, 5; Eph. 1:4). The ultimate end of election is the praise of Gods grace (Eph. 1:6, 12). Eastons
Election then is another word for predestination, and predestination is rooted in the eternal, sovereign, immutable, unconditional decree of God determines all events of every class that come to pass.
---John_T on 1/22/07

(2) Why would God elect any? Two reasons:

(A) The ground of this election to salvation is the good pleasure of God (Eph. 1:5, 11; Matt. 11:25, 26; John 15:16, 19)

(B). God claims the right so to do (Rom. 9:16, 21).
It is not conditioned on faith or repentance, but is of sovereign grace (Rom. 11:46; Eph. 1:36 Faith and repentance are the exercises of a regenerated soul; and regeneration is Gods work, a new creature. Election comes first, then faith.
---John_T on 1/22/07

(1) Election outside of salvation is not unique in Scripture; e.g., Abraham, Jacob, Saul, David, Solomon, were all chosen by God for the positions they held; so also were the apostles. There is also an election of nations to special privileges, e.g., the Hebrews (Deut. 7:6; Rom. 9:4).
However, with the TULIP, there is an election of individuals to eternal life (2 Thess. 2:13; Eph. 1:4; 1 Pet. 1:2; John 13:18).
---John_T on 1/22/07

W) Holy Spirit is the guarantor of our inheritance
X) This inheritance is the redemption of Gods own possession (v.14)
Y) This redemption is for the good pleasure of God

Thus election is none of mans doing, but it is of God, about God, and for God. Bragging about self is forbidden once one understands Unconditional Election.
---John_T on 1/22/07

W) Holy Spirit is the guarantor of our inheritance
X) This inheritance is the redemption of Gods own possession (v.14)
Y) This redemption is for the good pleasure of God

Thus election is none of mans doing, but it is of God, about God, and for God. Bragging about self is forbidden once one understands Unconditional Election
---John_T on 1/22/07

R) And that Believers are sealed until the end of time (perseverance of the Saints) even after earth and time shall be no more (v.10)
S) In Jesus we have our inheritance, and we were forordained unto it (v.11)
T) This inheritance is done in according to a preordained inheritance (we cant loose it)
U) The aim is so that we will praise the glory of God, the Author of the plan. (v.12)
V) All believers are sealed with Holy Spirits promise (v.13)
---John_T on 1/22/07

L) Chosen to receive the lavishly-bestowed grace, freely given to us, and bestowed in Christ
M) Through election we have redemption through the blood of Christ (v.7)
N) Through election we have forgiveness of sins
O) The measure of our forgiveness is measured by the depth of the riches of Christs love.
P) That love is abounding to the believer in all the wisdom and prudence of Christ. (v.8)
Q) Allowing only believers to see how good God is (v.9)
---John_T on 1/22/07

(5) From Ephesians 1:3-14, we learn that election
A) is a blessing (v.3)
B) Believers were chosen (v.4)
C) Chosen in eternity
D) Chosen for holiness
E) Chosen to be positionally justified
F) Chosen to be pure
G) Chosen in the love of God
H) Chosen to be adopted as sons (v.5)
I) Chosen through Christ to belong to him
J) Chosen because it gave Christ pleasure to do so
K) Chosen with the purpose of glorifying Christ (not man) (v.6)
---John_T on 1/22/07


Due the unusual circumstance of your PM post to me here please verify by stating the last 4 numbers in your name in this public forum.

You'll see why I do this
---John_T on 1/22/07

5/ The reason is that man is born a fallen creature with the pollution of sin (Ps. 51:5). Depravity also affirms the inability of man to do good Depravity further affirms mans inability to understand the good . Depravity also indicates man cannot desire the good

Total depravity indicates mans utter inability to do anything for his salvation. God must initiate the process if a person is to be saved. That leads us to the next point, Unconditional Election. More, later.
---John_T on 1/18/07

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4/ Moody says this: Total depravity should first be defined negatively: it does not mean (1) that depraved people cannot or do not perform actions that are good in either mans or Gods sight.(2) that fallen man has no conscience which judges between good and evil for him.(3) that people indulge in every form of sin or in any sin to the greatest extent possible. The Scriptures emphasize the depravity of man by mans continual sinning (Gen. 6:5; Jer. 17:9; Rom. 3:1018).
---John_T on 1/18/07

3/ Therefore, we get the T standing for total depravity. One confession says this: From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.

Supporting the above are these Scriptures

a.WE OPPOSE THE GOOD Rom. 5:6; 8:7; 7:18; Col 1:21.

b. WE PREFER TO DO EVIL Gen. 6:5; 8:21; Rom. 3:1012.

c. WE ARE SINNERS James 1:1415; Eph. 2:23; Matt. 15:19
---John_T on 1/18/07

2/ Jack had it right with the TULIP; it is a mnemonic device to help memorization.

Here is the rationale for the statement: GOD from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
---John_T on 1/18/07

Kim, (original poster) and Lisa.

Like others, I did not see this until today. Most likely it was because several she-wolves added so much NONSENSE to the doctrine, trying to refute and not bothering to learn WHY some people believe it, or its Scriptural basis for it that I removed myself from the other blogs in frustration.

Be assured that there is a Biblical for all but one of the points, and if no wolves appear, Ill try to explain it as best I can.
---John_T on 1/18/07

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The only reason I would have for not answering you is that I do not see your question. Surley you realize that it is almost impossible to keep track of all the blogs one might contribute to over time.
Did you see my answer to you about the baptism in the Holy Spirit and OSAS? I stayed up late that night just to answer you.
---Bruce5656 on 1/18/07

Also, (and I have seen this lots) is that while an answer is given to someone's question, it does not get posted. Sometimes the answers are simply lost in cyber-space and just don't show up.

There was no specific reason for me to address this here other than as a point of interest. It has nothing to do with you being the person making the posts or any one else. I had never heard your explanation before but I had heard the one given by Jack below. It was just an observation.
---Bruce5656 on 1/18/07

Bruce I just got your answer on the Spirit's blog so please disregard this one too. Thanks Bruce
---lisa on 1/18/07

Bruce, it must have had a reason for answering me on this blog for if it hadn't you would not have taken the time to write to me. My explanation on why they came to be from my studies, I did not explain each point for that was not in question. If I had, I would have taken many post to explain all of them. What was your reason? You don't need to answer as you don't answer me many times but inside your heart you had a reason for you don't answer many post. I am puzzled by it though.
---lisa on 1/18/07

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2. Bruce, I am not a pastor or theologian. I am just a sister that loves to study and will do anything that it takes to make sure my faith is in the right order. Yet I will do my best to answer you in what I know and believe in if you have a question for me. I know there is many others more equip then I so they can give correct answers if they like to.
---lisa on 1/18/07

That is interesting but I thought the "five point" thing had to do with the five points of "Calvin's Tulip" as Jack noted below.
---Bruce5656 on 1/17/07

This is the book, speaking.
---Tim on 1/17/07

Here is why it is called five points. In 1610 a year after the death of James Arminius, his followers drew up a protest against the church's Cathechisms's and the confession's of faith. They presented five articles of protest called a "Romanstrance." They insisted for the church to change their views on those five articles of protest. The high governing body called "Synod" met eight years later in 1618 for the purpose of examining the views of Arminius in light of Scripture.
---lisa on 11/7/06

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2. The Synod of Dort consisted of the States General of Holland, with 84 members and 18 secular commissioners included were 27 deleagtes from Germany, the Palatinate, Switzerland and England. Failing to reconcile those protest with the Word of God. which they had definitly declared could alone be accepted by them as the rule of faith, they rejected the protest. But felt, however , that a mere rejection was not sufficient.
---lisa on 11/7/06

3. They proceeded to answer the protest with five points against the Remonstrance, matching their five points. Since Calvin was a reformer who stood on defending the church views, the five points are known by his name. No doubt it will seem strange to many in our day that the Synod of Dort rejected as heretical the five doctrines advanced by the Arminians, for this doctrines have gained wide acceptance in the modern Chruch. In fact, people fight for them now and get angry when someone questions it.
---lisa on 11/7/06

Geraldine, Actually, scripture says God is no respecter of persons... as we would respect because of appearance or status or such. God chooses whom He pleases - and who are we in our finite understanding to argue with Him about it? Bottom line is that Calvinism teaches that our salvation TOTALLY up to God. He gets ALL the credit for it and we get none. Basically, how can a corpse make a decision about anything? We were dead until He made us alive.
---daphn8897 on 11/6/06

Try Googling Calvinistm or John Calvin. There are some very good websites that make an interesting study. It will lead you into studying doctrine of once saved always saved.
---Bob on 11/6/06

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Jack "(It helps if you spell it properly.)"
Is "irresistable" in your dictionary?
---quent5969_the_Scot on 11/6/06

Don't worry about the spelling, Kim, as long as you are understood. You are loved. My own problem with Calvinism is that the TULIP appears to offer salvation to only a select group. And Scripture tells us "God is not partial."
---Geraldine on 11/5/06

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