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Why Do You Think You Are Saved

Why do you think you are Saved?

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 ---Kent on 11/8/06
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Romans 3:11, John 6:44, Titus 3:5, Eph. 1:19, & Romans 9:11-16, Eph 2:8-9 seems to suggest man does not have free will but God does when it comes to salvation. This is different than every day responsibilities we are all accountable for. God is Holy and no one accepts the spirit things of God 1 Cor. 2:14. We all deserve wrath for He is Holy and we are not. Mercy is never dependant on the sinner but rather the person who givers mercy who is God.
---Tony on 1/4/10


Tina, Free will, God does not force us to chose the Gift Jesus died for. we are free to chose the Gift or not. God does not impose His will upon us. When you get truly saved, your will should become His will.
Peace be with you
---kent on 10/13/07


Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
---Exzucuh on 12/16/06


o.k Tina Have a nice day :)
---kent on 12/15/06


Kent,
At the risk of being told to "take a hike"... I'm not entirely sure how to respond. Your remarks seem contradictory at best, or dualistic at worst. I'm not accusing you of dualism, but your comments seem to be leading in that direction. In addition, I would not want to offend a brother or ruin anyone's day by a "back and forth table tennis". So I deemed it best to keep my comments to myself.
---Tina5349 on 12/15/06




Tina where did you go?
---kent on 12/13/06


Amen Levi, but when a brother or sister does not have an absolute understanding, it must be addressed and sometimes it is painful.
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/11/06


No Tina flesh man is Dead in sins, the Holy Spirit must convict it, or call upon it to show us we are wrong, and that we need Jesus.
Peace be with you.
---kent on 12/11/06


The back and forth tabble tennis has ruined the blog for the poor person that just wants to say why they are saved.
---Levi on 12/11/06


Kent,

So do you contend that the human being has not completely died to the good in spiritual matters but rather is seriously wounded and only mostly dead? That on the basis of its own natural powers the "free" will can meet God? That it can contribute something and assist in inclining itself toward God's Grace? If so, please explain 1 Corinth 2:14 and Rom. 8:7
---Tina5349 on 12/10/06




Sorry but John 10:9 says nothing about the ability of fallen man to dispose himself to God apart from Grace. Rather, it speaks of Jesus. Jesus is the door. This door gives salvation, freedom from the enemy and food. Vs. 6 tells us that Jesus' enemies did not understand what He said. Read 9:39-41. Jesus had healed a blind man in body and soul. Now he could see. The Pharisees claimed that they could see (spiritually) but remained blind. That is why they could not understand Jesus in our text.
---Tina5349 on 12/10/06


Tina are you asking, is Salvation based upon Gods offer to us and our decision to accept the Gift, if you are asking, is that what it all centers around the answer is Yes Praise the Lord my child it is so pleasing to the Holy Spirit when Gods children seek a common goal.
as far as you verse, the best I can come up with is John 10 V 9 Man must make that choice to open that door and enter in, if he stands staring at the door it will never open itself. or he can turn and walk away.
Peace be with you.
---kent on 12/10/06


I think we agree on this point Kent.

#1 It is helpful to distinguish between the civil realm where natural man *is* capable of making decisions for good and accomplishing good works, and the Spiritual realm, where he is not. Righteousness in the Spiritual realm is only ascribed to the operation of the Holy Spirit *alone* through His chosen means of Grace.
---Tina5349 on 12/10/06


Kent,
#2 The natural human will has some measure of freedom regarding good works and matters that reason can understand by itself in the civil realm, but *not* regarding Spiritual matters...namely fear, love, and trust in God. The conviction that God cares for us, hears us, and forgives us is impossible for the human heart to produce apart from the Grace of God. These are the real works of the first table which the human heart cannot produce without the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinth. 2:14.
---Tina5349 on 12/10/06


Kent,
#3 I hear you! Sometimes hectic is a good thing and sometimes not so good. My life is about to get rather hectic too, due to holiday madness!

Perhaps you are going to answer my question regarding your belief in the synergistic effort between God and man in conversion? I anxiously await your response.
---Tina5349 on 12/10/06


1 Thess. 5:16-18 "Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, 'in everything' give thanks for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you' If God is not in everyhing, can we honestly give thanks for everthing? Paul declares this idea of giving thanks when he writes, "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to 'His purpose' for those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed
---lisa on 12/10/06


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2. to the image of His Son" God called us, and from all eternity He knew who were going to be His chosen people. It wasn't by anything good in us, or by how much we knew, but because of His purpose and will. Man is lost and enslaved to sin. Without God first making that heart alive, that person will continue to be dead spiritually. Only God can wake up a heart, through the power of the Holy Spirit.
---lisa on 12/10/06


Tina said But prior to God's grace, our will is hostile toward God. "Our Will" yes it is our will, Influenced by satan. yes we are slaves to sin, but only because Jesus is not in our heart. be it that we still make decisions based on right or wrong, MANY unsaved people make decisons to do the right thing, to help others, to treat others with kindness, more often than those who claim to be saved. thirty years ago the unsaved man would not do what the Christian will do today.
---kent on 12/10/06


Tina i will find your Freedom Verse, soon sorry this weekend has been hectic.
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/10/06


Kent,
#1 Yes, we do have a will. I never said otherwise. But prior to God's grace, our will is hostile toward God. 1 Corinth 2:14, Romans 8:7

Now let me see if I understand you. What you are you saying is that conversion is based on God's conviction *plus* our decision....that conversion is a synergistic effort between God and man. Correct?
---Tina5349 on 12/8/06


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Kent,
#2 BTW, I agree with you that God does not force salvation upon us. But just because someone is free from coercion does not mean his will is free. Fallen man chooses sin due to a corrupt nature. Again I ask you...where does scripture use "freedom" to describe fallen man?

Prior to Grace, we are slaves to sin. Slaves are not free. The Grace of God in Christ changes our naturally hostile disposition to God and sets us free.
---Tina5349 on 12/8/06


Tina, No I did not change my mind,you admited we have a will,"will and heart of the human." our will becomes Gods will when the Holy Spirit, Convicts us that we are sinners and I/we/you make the decision to accept Gods will for our life , I/we/you have to Repent or turn from your old ways and then God will begin to give you Grace. it is not done any other way, if it is done the way you say, then we are nothing but a herd of cattle. GOD does not force salvation upon us.
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/8/06


Right Kent. It's sounds like we agree. :) So did you change your mind?

You said, "you have to accept the Gift and Repent before God is going to give you any of his grace."

Rx: That's not saying the same thing as "Conversion is wholly a gift of the Holy Spirit working through the Word in the mind, will and heart of the human."

We can't concoct repentance and faith up within ourselves. Repentance and faith are gifts given to us by the Holy Spirit.
---Tina5349 on 12/7/06


Tina, you just answered yourself
Conversion is wholly a gift of the Holy Spirit working through the Word in the mind, """will and heart of the human""". FC SD II
---kent on 12/7/06


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Jesus says, follow me, the only one's that follow are the ones that have faith. The others won't follow. Some will for a while and they will eventually go their way. It isn't hard to understand that when God commands something He is talking to the ones that can hear, see and understand. To the others He calls them wicked. When he says, believe in Me, He is speaking to one's that have faith in Him, and wants them to trust in Him. They already have faith, now they have to learn to trust in Him.
---lisa on 12/7/06


2. What do the others do? They don't follow cause they don't have faith. What did the rich man do? He didn't follow. The teachings in Scripture is for believers only. They need to trust in God's power that He can change anyone, and that we can be who He wants us to be. Paul reminds Christians that until the kingdom comes in its fullness, believers can only have an assured hope, they must walk by faith, not by sight. With the resurrection, our despair tuned to hope.
---lisa on 12/7/06


3. True saving faith is composed of Trust. It involves content. We are not justified by believing just anything. Some have said, "it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are sincere." That sentiment is radically opposed to the teaching of the Bible. The Bible teaches that it matters profoundly what we believe. Justification is not by sencerity alone. We mayb be sincerely wrong. Right doctrine, at least in the essentials truths of the gospel, is a necessary ingredient of saving faith.
---lisa on 12/7/06


4. We believe in the gospel, in the person and work of Christ. That is why He keeps saying believe in Me, follow me, trust in me. It is very important that we understand those passages for what they were meant for.
---lisa on 12/7/06


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So Kent, how do you explain 1 Corinth 2:14?

"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

And Romans 8:7 "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so" And John 6:65?
---Tina5349 on 12/6/06


#2 Kent, how does a spiritually dead person make any decisions (spiritually) for the good? How does a spiritually dead person accept anything spiritually?

Answer: He cannot. He must be made alive first. God comes to us and makes what was dead to be alive. Eph. 2:1,5 and Col. 2:13

Where does scripture ascribe freedom to fallen man?
---Tina5349 on 12/6/06


"For just as the resuscitation in the physical resurrection of the body is to be ascribed to God alone, so the conversion of our corrupted will, which is nothing other than an awakening of this will from spiritual death, is wholly and alone God's doing..." Man, on the basis of his own natural power is not capable of anything and cannot help with his own conversion. Conversion is wholly a gift of the Holy Spirit working through the Word in the mind, will and heart of the human. FC SD II
---Tina5349 on 12/6/06


I agree with Kent.
We receive everlasting life (being saved)by Gods Grace through Faith alone in Christ alone.
---JIM on 12/6/06


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If a babe went on this to share their testimony they would think what in the world am I saved is it that hard? Kent is right Jesus said it simply follow me the rest will come with walking with Jesus. A simple question has become a hard one that is why Jesus said be like a little child they just believe not all this "deep" back and forth. if a babe gave their testimony every word, pause, would be picked apart and maybe cause them to question their salvation and love.
---Jeanne on 12/6/06


Tina , so you are saying that you get Grace before you accept the Gift? I don't think so, you have to accept the Gift and Repent before God is going to give you any of his grace.
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/6/06


Kent,
Right...We can reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But we cannot accept it prior to grace. God *does* change unwilling people into willing people through the drawing power of the Holy Spirit.

Conversion, faith in Christ, rebirth, renewal, and everything that belongs to the actual beginning and completion of these things, is ascribed not to the human powers of the natural free will...not in the slightest little bit, but rather to the Divine activity of the Holy Spirit alone. BOC
---Tina5349 on 12/5/06


Tina, that's the way it happens, but at that point you had the choice to turn away, walk away, or reject the Gospel right?
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/5/06


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Thank you Tina, you put it very well. Salvation comes from hearing the Word of God. The gospel of our salvation. God has to come to us, the Holy Spirit has to quicken our hearts and bring us to life, and speak to us, but a person cannot hear unless he is made alive to hear God. Many others hear it but are not alive to Christ. They are lost, spiritually dead to God, and enslaved to sin. A dead person cannot hear. He has no ears to hear are eyes to see. I gave the illustration of Lazuras some time back.
---lisa on 12/5/06


Kent,

The Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel.
---Tina5349 on 12/4/06


Kent,
God does not effect conversion without means, but uses the preaching and hearing of God's Word, as it is written Rom. 1:16 The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Also Rom. 10:17 Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God.

God makes what was dead to be alive by the power of His word, specifically, the Gospel of Jesus Christ crucified for sinners.
---Tina5349 on 12/4/06


Tina so how did you happen upon the Gift, if the Holy Spirit did not call you?
---kent on 12/4/06


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If one doesn't believe upon God, then one can't be saved. God must first convict a sinner, of their sins, by dealing with their heart. Then they must ask God to forgive them of their sins and ask God to come into their heart. If this doens't happen, then this person didn't get saved in the beginning.
---Rebecca_D on 12/4/06


Kent,
No...it was not forced upon me. It is not force, but unfathomable, unmerited mercy.

"...I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith; even as He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian Church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith..." Luther's Small Catechism
---Tina5349 on 12/4/06


Tina if you did not accept the Gift , it was forced upon you, was it?
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/4/06


Complicated? Not at all! God saves us all by Himself. He doesn't need our help, our decision, or our acceptance. The only contribution I make to salvation is my sin. God took what was mine (my sin) and gave to me what was His (His righteousness). The great exchange! We are counted righteous in God's eyes because of Christ. But this does not make us righteous in ourselves. That will only happen at our glorification when Christ transforms these bodies to be sealed in righteousness.


---Tina5349 on 12/4/06


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How simply did Jesus put It as he gathered his Disciples. "Follow Me"
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/4/06


Kent, you ask me what doctrine I follow, I follow the doctrine of Christ. And I will answer you question on top "why do I think I am saved" I believe God had mercy on me that I am saved. He didn't have to have mercy on me, I could have been born in a country where I would have never been taught the gospel. But I wasn't. I had a child speak the gospel to me. It was this gospel that brought me out of the darkness. God's Word spoken to me by a little girl.
---lisa on 12/4/06


2. And the reason I know I am saved is because I have a true love for Christ. No one that is lost has a love for Christ. I have believed the testimony of the Holy Spirit when He witnessed to my spirit that I am a child of God. And that is why I have an assurance on that salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. I am certain of my election and salvation Kent. Nothing hard about that.
---lisa on 12/4/06


Kent, if you will notice, the first comment to me you said, "When you talk to someone about Christ, and invite them in, and they are curious about what you have, the Holy Spirit goes to work convicting those people's hearts" That is exactly what happens when we teach the truth of the gospel Kent. The word of God convicts them of their sin. It is God convicting the unbeliever to recognize his sin against God. Without that conviction he would never come to Christ.
---lisa on 12/3/06


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2. Isaiah 55:11 says, ..so shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but is shall "accomplish that which I purpose," and prosper in the thing for "which I sent it" and also Romans 9:16 says, "So it depends "not" upon man's will or exertion, but upon God" mercy." Jeane says, it is not important. How can God's word not be important? The very reason these people cannot come forward is because they cannot.
---lisa on 12/3/06


Kent RIGHT many on here the simple salvation message & by the time they are done not even Gaits/Einstein could "get" it. He spoke to kids & they got it, to simple men/women & they got it, to prostitutes-they got it as well as the educated like Paul or Luke the Doc. The old saying -Keep it simple Stupid. We turn off many baby Christians or those almost becoming one what did Jesus say? He said come follow me-that was all-open invitation to come as you are and then the changes happen.
---Jeanne on 12/3/06


I agree Kent if a non saved or babe read those blogs it looks like a dog chasing their tail going over a 100 miles yet never leaving the one spot and would bring confusion. Salvation is a gift, freely given Jesus said come follow me and they did and still do it is that simply just put one foot in front of the other and start to follow him and all the other hangups, sins, will start to fall away the more you walk with Jesus.
---Jeanne on 12/3/06


Kent, you said it, the lost are confused. They are lost Kent. Everyone that does come to Christ, is a baby in the beginning but you are not a baby anymore. You are a part of the body of Christ. You should as everyone else continue to learn more and more about God. There is no reason to be ashame when bothers and sisters discus Scripture. None whatsoever. You take the information, check it with Scripture and then do what you feel is correct or not.
---lisa on 12/3/06


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2. Everyone that is in-love with Christ, wants to learn so much more because he is motivated by the Spirit to learn more about God. Learn about salvation, sanctification, the law, the reason why certain things are explained to us through scripture. Of course many don't care, and prefer not do anything anymore and stay where they are at. The hunger should be there. It is like when someone falls in love with someone Kent. He meets her, talks to her and the more he knows her the more in-love he becomes.
---lisa on 12/3/06


Shame on you all, you make it so complicated, it is no wonder the lost look at us and are confused. When you first got saved, a glorious feeling came over you, and you knew it was the right thing, but you were babes in Christ, ignorant of the teachings of Christ, when the Holy Spirit calls,if one simply say's Lord Jesus come into my heart and guide me and I will repent or turn from my old ways that is all that is required, the Lord will lead you from there. Stop making it so complicated!
---kent on 12/3/06


Tina and Lisa what doctrine do you follow? it may help me understand your teachings
Peace be wtih you
---kent on 12/3/06


Lisa you said.. In your theory, you have a lost person entering the kingdom of God without been reborn,..I am not sure where you read that? First one must accet Jesus Christ to enter in to Heaven, He is the door and there is no other way. Second once you accep Jeus Christ and Repent you are no longer lost, therefore you are not entering Heaven lost, which is not possible anyway, .
---kent on 12/2/06


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Cont...Third if you do not accept Jesus Christ when the Holy Spirit calls upon you then you are dead in sins and headed for hell when you pass from this body. the Holy Spirit may call upon you one time, or several. but if you reject Jesus Christ then you are hell bound plain and simple.
love to you too my sister in Christ
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/2/06


Explain to me how He calls you from the state you are in? Does He wake you up from your spiritual death?...When you talk to someone about Christ, when you invite someone to church, when someone wonders why you act like you do and not like the world. The Holy Spirit goes to work convicting those peoples hearts. You have thrown out the life line. the Holy Spirit reals them in. Sometimes they make it to shore Sometimes they untie themselves God gave us free will.
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/2/06


Kent,
#1 I understand you to mean that man is free from coercion. But just because man is free from external compulsion does not mean that his will is free. Does the scripture speak in terms of "freedom" to describe fallen man?

Lisa is right.
---Tina5349 on 12/2/06


Kent,
#2 Question: Is man "able by his own powers, prior to and before his regeneration by God's Spirit, to dispose and prepare himself for God's grace, and to accept [and apprehend], or not, the grace offered through the Holy Ghost in the Word and holy [divinely instituted] Sacraments."? FC II

Answer: No. 1 Cor. 2:14 John 6:65 Gen. 8:21 Rom. 8:7

Prior to Grace, we are slaves to sin.
---Tina5349 on 12/2/06


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Kent,
#3 "...as little as a dead body can quicken itself to bodily, earthly life, so little can man, who by sin is spiritually dead, raise himself to spiritual life." FC II 3

Eph. 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, He hath quickened us together with Christ;

2 Cor.3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything good as of ourselves, but that we are sufficient is of God.
---Tina5349 on 12/2/06


Kent,
"God the Holy Spirit, however, does not effect conversion without means, but uses for this purpose the preaching and hearing of God's Word, as it is written Rom. 1:16 The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Also Rom. 10:17 Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God.
---Tina5349 on 12/2/06


Kent,
"And it is God's will that His Word should be heard, and that man's ears should not be closed. Ps. 95:8. With this Word the Holy Spirit is present, and opens hearts, so that they, as Lydia in Acts 16:14, are attentive to it, and are thus converted alone through the grace and power of the Holy Spirit, whose work alone the conversion of man is." FC II 4
---Tina5349 on 12/2/06


"Free-will" is a term appropriate only to God Himself. For only He can do..."Whatever the LORD pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps. (Ps. 135:6).

"But if there were enough good in man to apply itself to good then man would have no need of grace" (Packer & Johnston, 145).
---Tina5349 on 12/2/06


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Kent, ok, lets say you are correct, and the Spirit calls you, Explain to me how He calls you from the state you are in? Does He wake you up from your spiritual death? And if He does awake you, and then you refuse, do you go back to been dead? Your theory has a lot of holes. Here is why, in order for someone to respond to God he has to be alive. If he is made alive, regenerated, does he loss his life again if he response "NO"? A dead person cannot respond Kent.
---lisa on 12/1/06


2. I love you kent, and do wish to continue this with you. I just want you to think. That is all. Make sure of your teachings. Lost people have no spiritual thoughts. No connection with a holy God. They follow their god. In your theory, you have a lost person entering the kingdom of God without been reborn, if he believes without been regenerated. If that is the case why be born again? He is already in God's kingdom. But Jesus said, you must be born again in order to enter the kingdom of God.
---lisa on 12/1/06


Kent, I have read a lot of your answers and I believe you are on the right track. I only answer for a reason, and that is to teach what I know from Scripture. I can see I am one of the only one's posting a lot on this subjects. I guess everyone else is staying out. I sure wish others would join in. My time on this website is not going to last. Again thank you Kent and have a great weekend. blessings to you too.
---lisa on 12/1/06


Lisa said, Do you really believe the unbeliever has the ability to have faith on his own? Do you really believe that a person lost, with emnity against God, that doesn't love God, that is blind, dead spiritually to God, is able of himself to change his nature and make a commitment to God on his own? Lisa read again, one may not get saved unless the Holy Spirit calls upon them, only then do they have to make that choice. to accept or reject
Peace be with you
---kent on 12/1/06


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No Kent, you were lost and you were found. You could not believe before been born again. If you could, everyone lost would have a key to God's kingdom without been born again. In that case, why be born again if you are in God's kingdom already? Why bring the gospel to others? If a lost person already has the power to believe. That would also mean they are not lost because they already believe. Yet Scripture is clear that we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith, not of ourselves.
---lisa on 12/1/06


2. Do you really believe the unbeliever has the ability to have faith on his own? Do you really believe that a person lost, with emnity against God, that doesn't love God, that is blind, dead spiritually to God, is able of himself to change his nature and make a commitment to God on his own? I don't understand Kent how you can believe that garbage if you do. You answer great on many matters but here you are wrong.
---lisa on 12/1/06


3. The Holy Spirit quickens the heart of the person so that he is able to repent, to understand, see, hear, the Truth. It is God working in the life of the unbeliever to bring him to salvation. Men love the world. Is a child of satan. does the desires of the enemy. How in the world can he, of himself get himself out of that mess? It takes an act of God. That is how I read Scripture Kent. I am sorry I disagree with you. Man is fallen, is morally dead to all the things of God.
---lisa on 12/1/06


lisa are you saying that Salvation is forced upon you?
---kent on 12/1/06


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Lisa, I was lost and I chose to accept Jesus Christ, If I did not have a choice, then the Holy Spirit must of Mandated that I accept Jesus, I don't recall tha Holy Spirit mandating that I accept, What doctrine are you going by?
---kent on 12/1/06


2. Kent, Before man can make a choice for Christ he has to be given the ability to choose Christ. While lost man make many choices but they will never be for God because his desire is not God. Here is why, Before Adam's fall, Adam was endowed with two possibilities. He had the ability to sin and the ability not to sin. After the fall, he had the ability to sin, and the inability to not sin. What that means is that after the fall man was morally incapable of living without sin.
---lisa on 12/1/06


lisa word it how you want, but when the Holy Spirit seeks you out, you have the Choice to accept Jesus Christ or reject Him,
God does not force acceptance upon you.
Peace be with you.
---kent on 12/1/06


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