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Is Punishment Forever

Is eternal punishment scriptural, or has the Greek word aion and aionious been mistranslated as eternal and forever?

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 ---Billy on 11/25/06
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Punishment is not forever. 1.Cor.15.22-28
---InimicusStultitiae on 1/23/08


Brother Billy, are you still around, I hope it is you I have truly missed you. Your friend Ryan.
---Ryan_Z on 1/23/08


Billy,

Rev. 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

John was shown literal reality to come. Not some new age experience. He saw the real deal.
---tofurabby on 1/23/08


IAMI, that would fall under the obvious category.
---tofurabby on 1/9/07


1/ Lisa

Paul is speaking to those that were sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints. 1Cor 1:11 says that it had been declared unto me of you, my brethern, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Lisa, Paul calls these Corinthians that are having contention among themselves "his brethern." Lisa, I hope your using your Hermeneutics and context correctly, because your not considering the whole chapter to base your assumption.
---Billy on 1/8/07




2/ Lisa

Reading from verse 1 through verse 11, Paul never makes any suggestion that he has changed directions from first talking to believers, and then to unbelievers, but calls them his brethern. Even reading through chapters 2 and 3, Paul never gives us reason to believe this as well. In chapter three, Paul is admonishing the born again Corinthians to stop being little children and go on into maturity.
---Billy on 1/8/07


3/ Lisa

For someone to be well rounded in Hermeneutics, you sure seam to be having a hard time noticing the facts of these scriptures.

Lisa, thank you for schooling me about types in the OT. I was already aware of this information and thought I had voiced this truth when I was debating you and Ramon about how to rightly divide Gods Word on another blog. I had made a statement about a type in the OT which I refered to the Christian Church today, and never heard back from Ramon.
---Billy on 1/8/07


4/ Lisa

You said, I believe if you are a baby Christian you are saved because of your faith in Jesus Christ. Lisa, you have no scripture to back this up. Scripture does say that if we believe and confess the Lord Jesus, that we would be saved, but we have to take the whole of Gods Word to base the truth of the matter. [1]We would have to leave out, induring to the end that we would be saved. [2] staying little children in Christ and not going into maturity. Lisa we must mature and endure.
---Billy on 1/8/07


5/ Lisa

Professing Christ alone doesnt get us saved, not everyone that say Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom, but he that does the will of the Father. And the will of the Father is to go on into perfection [maturity]. Refusing to mature will cost us the liberty of being in the first resurrection. Lisa, do you think that Christ would have little children to stand with him that have never been tempered through the fire, or that havent filled up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ?
---Billy on 1/8/07


6/ Lisa

There is a reason for maturing in Christ, but the christian church has no need for this. They think that just having faith alone can save them. I am I, has made this statement many times and it goes right over everyones heads. No one can grasp the need to go on into maturity. Yes, without faith its impossible to please God, but taking the whole of Gods Word, its grace through faith that we are saved, and not of ourselves.
---Billy on 1/8/07




7/ Lisa

Its not faith alone that saves us. Lisa, remember what grace does? "Tit 2:11,12" Grace chasens us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. You use your analogy of a baby, but you say that these babies eyes and ears are open to hear Gods Word and to believe them to be true. Lisa, "Heb 5:13" For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of Righteousness: for he is a babe. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age.
---Billy on 1/8/07


8/ Lisa

Lisa, you know that most babes will believe anything that you tell them. Most any voice they hear isnt the voice of a stranger. Give a child a sucker and hes your friend for life. There are plenty of babes in Christ that will never matured in the spirit. Yes they have faith, but most will never go beyond the milk of the Word. They are know different from a servent. Lisa, the servent isnt a true Israelite.
---Billy on 1/8/07


9/ Lisa

Professing Christ doesnt get us saved, but chasening grace through faith is what saves us. God bless
---Billy on 1/8/07


1/Tofurabby

I said FLESH and BLOOD. Since Jesus has flesh and bones, does that mean no blood runs through his bones? What about those who came out of their graves and went to talk to people?
Also, I hope you recognize that you have changed your mind from when you first told me you are a LITERALIST.

YOU WROTE: I'm not on the "the world is a metaphor" bandwagon. I am a Christian fundamentalist and take God's Word very seriously and definately literally.
12/28/06
---I_AM_I on 1/8/07


2/Tofurabby

YOU WROTE: [T]he Bible is very literal. It should be read literally unless you are either told otherwise or there is such obvious symbolism that you cannot come to a literal conclusion. But it should always be approached from a literal view first. 1/2/07
[R]evelation is a very literal book. 1/2/07

How do you interpret Rev. 11:8 (Jesus was SPIRITUAL crucified in Sodom and Egypt)? The new blog (SYMBOLICAL or LITERAL Bible) I mentioned to you is now on the system.
---I_AM_I on 1/8/07


Billy, in the case of Matthew 2:15, Out of Egypt, this quotation is from Hosea, which speaks of God's leading Israel out of Egypt in the Exodus. Matthew suggest that Israel's sojourn in Egypt was a pictorial prophecy, rather than a specific verbal one such as verse 6; 1:23. These are called "types" and all are always fulfilled in Christ, and identified clearly by the New Testament writers. Another example of a type is found in John 3:14. I wrote this because of your answer to Tofu.
---lisa on 1/8/07


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#2. Billy, "types" comes from the Greek word "tupos" and its synonyms are the concepts of "Resemblence, Likeness, and similarity." A type is a preordained representative relationship which certain person, events, and institutions bear to corresponding persons, events, and institutions occuring at a later time in salvation History. Typology is based on the assumption that there is a pattern in God's work thoughout salvation history.
---lisa on 1/8/07


#3. God prefugured His redemptive work in the Old Testament, and fulfilled it in the New. In the Old Testament there are shadows of things which shall be more fully revealed in the New. The cremonial laws of the Old Testament, for example demonstrated to Old sins: These creemonies pointed forward to the perfect atonement to be made in Christ. The prefigurement is called the type, the fulfillment is called the "antitype." This I write from my studies in a few classes I had on hermeneutics.
---lisa on 1/8/07


4. In John 3:14,15, where Jesus says,"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life." Jesus pointed out two coresponding resemblances: The lifting up of the serpent and of Himself, and second, life for those who responded to the object lifted up. Just something to help you on reading Scripture.
---lisa on 1/8/07


2. In answer to 1 Cor. 1:2," To the church of God which is at Corinth, (Now listen to this part) to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:" not all in Corinth were saved, and he was speaking only to the one's saved, the others of course could not understand since they are not believers in Christ, yet attending the church.
---lisa on 1/8/07


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3. Billy, in answer to the other reference you gave whether all Christians can understand, I believe if you are a baby Christian you are saved because of your faith in Jesus Christ. You don't see Him but you believe and trust in Him. You are a baby Christian and as such you are bearlly learning about God. Just as a baby who is born to a mother. As he grows in the teachings he begans to grasp as much as he is able to grasp. Each one different then the other.
---lisa on 1/8/07


Hosea is not prospective but rather Matthew is retrospective. Mathew quotes Hosea 11:1 for purposes of reaching back into Israels Exodus experience and drawing deliberate parallels between Israel and Christ. The reason for drawing such parallels is to show that Christ succeeded in every area where Israel failed thus becoming all that failing Israel was called to be. This would be consistent with Matthews purpose of convincing his Jewish audience of Christs unique identity as the Davidic messiah.
---tofurabby on 1/8/07


4. yet his eyes are open and his ears can hear. He hears God's Word and believe them to be true. As God reveals His word the baby grows to be mature. But the difference is that the unbelievers eyes are close, his ears do not hear God, he is at emnity against God so he is spiritually dead to the things of God. So no matter how wise he is he will never understand or believe in God and His Word. That is the difference between the two.
---lisa on 1/8/07


2- Matthew is quoting the history of the Jew's exit out of Egypt, and says that it is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. But that doesn't make it a prophecy. Just because the very word "fulfilled" is used of prophecies elsewhere doesnt mean Matthew sees it as a prophecy here. The Greek for fulfilled has more than 1 meaning and in this verse carries the meaning "to render perfect" or "to carry through to the end". Jesus completed the calling that Israel did not which was perfection.
---tofurabby on 1/8/07


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Billy, in answer to the first question if you are the wise and prudent, no, not speaking of you. I could have wrote them, others, just happened to put you in answering. I was speaking of those who think they are wise but are not saved.
---lisa on 1/8/07


1/ Tofu and Lisa,

one more thing. In Luke 24:44, Christ laid down this principle of how to interpret His Word, which is rejected by those who, generally speaking, consider themselves today to be "the body of Christ". "These are the words I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the Psalms concerning me."
---Billy on 1/7/07


2/ Tofu and Lisa,

Christ had been explaining it to them for years. In Luke 24:44-45, Christ simply opened their spiritual minds (previously blinded and veiled) to understand and remember what He had been showing them all along.
---Billy on 1/7/07


3/ Tofu and Lisa,

In other words, Christ had taught his apostles over and over that anything that applied to any of the Old Testament patriarchs or prophets or Israel or any particular Israelite ("one of the least of these my brethren") will, and does apply to Christ. Also, anything that applies to Christ as the head of His body, will apply to any part of His body, or to any part of spiritual Israel.
---Billy on 1/7/07


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4/ Tofu and Lisa

So let me ask one more question. When Christ opened there understanding to the scriptures "Luke 24:45", was Christ teaching them Hermeneutics, or did he not open there spiritual eyes to see the things of the spirit? God bless
---Billy on 1/7/07


(1). Tofu, you said, *I dont think Matthew is calling it a prophecy at all. Christ fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet, but not that this was a prophecy. Matthew is quoting Israel's history to say it has been fulfilled in Christ. *.

Tofu, if Christ fulfilled what the prophet Hosea was saying, then Hosea must have been prophecing about Christ. This had nothing to do with Matthew, other than what he saw as prophecy by Hosae.
---Billy on 1/7/07


(2). Tofu, So if Christ fulfilled what the prophet Hosea was saying, then how could this not be a prophecy of Christ? Tofu, I do believe that this was prophecy of Christ. But according to context, and Literal Interpretation, this is not speaking about Christ but Israel. Tofu, to say otherwise would be interpreting scripture the way I do!
---Billy on 1/7/07


(3). Tofu, this is what youve done when you say verse 2 begins to show, in short, their imperfection. Matthew is showing that through Jesus this history is perfected.
---Billy on 1/7/07


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(4). Tofu, you have know scripture to back up this interpretation, only a hypothesis. If Israels history is perfected through Christ then why has Israel been cut off till the fulness of the Gentiles be come in "Rom 11:25"? So again, could you tell me from Literal Interpretation and context, was Hosea speaking of Christ? God bless
---Billy on 1/7/07


IAMI, again I refer you to the literal example of Christ's resurrection. I believe your answer is here. flesh and bones, but he doesnt mention blood. Peculiar. I believe we (and those who rose after his crucifixion) will be raised the same way he was.

Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
---tofurabby on 1/5/07


IAMI, I will always believe the Bible is literal. Like I said before, it will use symbolism, figurative speach, parables, etc. from time to time, but I will always default to a literal reading unless it is obviously not meant to be so. If that case arises, then there is always an obvious answer to what is meant. No room for debate because God does not author confusion.
---tofurabby on 1/5/07


-billy, actually after looking at it closely, I dont think Matthew is calling it a prophecy at all. Christ fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet, but not that this was a prophecy. Matthew is quoting Israel's history to say it has been fulfilled in Christ. What Matthew then is saying is this: continued...
---tofurabby on 1/5/07


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-2-billy God first called His son out of Egypt. That was Israel. Hosea 11 (not prophetic, but looking back), but verse 2 begins to show, in short, their imperfection. Matthew is showing that through Jesus this history is perfected. Jesus was called out of Egypt, and was perfect in His obedience towards God, unlike the Israelites.
---tofurabby on 1/5/07


(1). Lisa, im soon to be going out of town so I want be able to answer through the weekend, so this will be my last post till then. Lisa, if you think that im the wise and prudent man that Gods word has been hid from, thats OK, each to his own opinion.

Lisa, you said, *Only the New Born again believer will have the faith to believe and the others cannot understand any of it*

Lisa, I dont have much time so I would have to say that I dont agree with this statement. 1st ill us 1 Cor 1:2
---Billy on 1/5/07


(2). Lisa, 1 Cor 1:2, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours:

So these Corinthians were Born again believer that also came behind in no gift, 1 Cor 1:7. Lisa, this would appear that these Corinthians were mature christians wouldnt you say? So would you say that these Corinthians could understand the meatier things of Gods Word?
---Billy on 1/5/07


(3). Lisa, so to get to my point, hears another scripture to the same Corinthians 2 chapters later.

1 Cor 3:1-3 [1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto babes in Christ.
[2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and division, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
---Billy on 1/5/07


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(4). Lisa, I hope that this helps you see that just because someone is a christian and born again doesnt mean that they can understand spiritual things. There are many Christians that never go beyond the milk of the word and mature into adults. Lisa, if we remain children, we differ nothing from a servant, though we be lord of all "Gal 4:1".
---Billy on 1/5/07


(5). So Lisa, you tell me, just because someone is truely born again, comes behind in no gift, and being sanctified in Christ Jesus, does this make them understand spiritual truths. God bless
---Billy on 1/5/07


(1). Tofu, Your trying to tell me what Matthew was looking back to see, but could you please tell me if Hosea 11:1,2 in its context is speaking of Christ? The problem is that people keep telling me that I take scripture out of context when I see a spiritual application in scripture. Matthew uses Hosea 11 as prophetic scripture of Christ comming out of Egypt in his youth, but Hosea doesnt fit according to context.
---Billy on 1/5/07


(2). Tofu, if Matthew would have never made this prophetic connection to Hosea concerning Christ, and I came along on Christian Net and said that Hosea 11:1 is speaking of Christ as a child comming out of Egypt, I would be laughed to scorn and told I didnt use proper Hermeneutics to translate Hosea. I hope this helps you see what im trying to say, so could you please answer my question concerning Hosea 11? God bless
---Billy on 1/5/07


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Tofurabby

In Luke when Jesus was crucified the graves immediately opened up, the prophets came out of them and went to talk with people. What kind of body did they have? Was it the same like Jesus', which can eat physical food? If yes, how do you reconcile this with Paul's statement that FLESH and BLOOD CANNOT inherent the Kingdom of God?
---I_AM_I on 1/5/07


[2] Tofurabby

Perhaps we will answer this question on a new blog I sent for approval on biblical interpretation. Do you still believe that the Bible is ONLY literal?
---I_AM_I on 1/5/07


Billy, let me answer #1 question you ask. First of all God does keep hidden to the wise and prudent? He does keep them hidden from anyone that is not of faith. Only the New Born again believer will have the faith to believe and the others cannot understand any of it. You see when you answer questions you are talking about both the saved and the unsaved. When I am talking about studying and learning about God I am talking about a True Christian. If you had the true faith that God gives you,
---lisa on 1/5/07


2. you would be able to understand them but in your case, you are the wise and prudent that wants to speak against God's Word which is Scripture without faith in His Word, then you are the wise one. But even as wise as anyone thinks he is he will never understand the word of God. That is why my first question to you earlier was, do you believe Scripture to be true? You said it has errors, you use your logic to and smartness to do that, why? Because you don't have faith.
---lisa on 1/5/07


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3. When a person is truely born again, in the very beginning, his eyes are opened. He doesn't know much of Scripture but he begans to read and understand, in time he will be studying and learning all there is to know about God but only because He loves God so much and wants to know. So he begins his walk but with open eyes to God's Word. The lost who think they are so wise, can speak all they want, but will never understand anything of God, Why? They have no Spirit in them to discern God's Word.
---lisa on 1/5/07


4. That's why I said, that when a person really and truely loves Christ, He will do anything possible to be right in God's Word, and will find ways to learn about Him because he cares for his relationship. God has gifted many good writers that can teach others to find the meaning of passages, it doesn't mean the believer is going against the Bible by reading the material, but he wants to learn to help himself to find that truth of Scripture. If you have that thirst for Christ you will work hard to learn.
---lisa on 1/5/07


5. Billy you also say that Leterial Interpretation is not right, if it is not then you will read a parable as a Metaphor, a noun as a pronoun and so on. You have to have some kind of order Billy. In your case you could change what is said to mean what you say as a reader. That is only done by people that don't care how they use God's word. Because if you cared you would make sure what you are intepreting is correct. where again comes back to whether you really have faith, true faith Billy,
---lisa on 1/5/07


6. Billy, in answer to your answer the the writers of the New Testament rightly divided the word of God by overlooking the context of words written, is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Of course I am not surprise you say that, but you have no way of proving what you say. Since they are not here and if someone wrote that, he was probably like you who discredits Scripture. So I can see someone saying it, but believing is another matter. I will answer you question on Hosea 11:12, later today.
---lisa on 1/5/07


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-billy, one way to look at it would be that God called Israel out of Egypt, but they failed him by turning and worshiping Baalim (looking back to Exodus). Then in Matt. it is looking backwards to say that Christ suceeeded in his life where Israel failed during their calling in Exodus.
---tofurabby on 1/5/07


IAMI, I cannot say that I understand the full nature of what is to come. I can only go by what was written. Yes, our glorified bodies are raised spiritual bodies yet they obviously have very real physical characteristics. We see this by Christ's example. We will not be all combined in a big aura, floating around somewhere. We will be individual and will have physical properties such as a body. Like Christ is the best example I can give, which is something that really happened rather than a man made idea.
---tofurabby on 1/5/07


IAMI, please dont ask me to consult sources that are outside of the Word of God. I trust it alone.
---tofurabby on 1/5/07


1/ Tofu, After rereading your last post over, ive gotten a better understanding of what you were trying to say. You said, *If you look closer, verse 1 is referring to "him", verse 2 is referring to "them".* Tofu, verse 1 is refering to Israel as a body and a son. This is why God speaks in a singular sense. But verse 2 is still speaking to Israel, but in a plural sense because the body has many members.
---Billy on 1/4/07


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2/ Tofu, You know this to be true because the body of Christ is one body "singular", but His body has many members "plural". Verse 2 is a continuation of verse 1. So I still ask the question as to how Hosea 11 "being in its proper context" can be speaking of Jesus. God bless.
---Billy on 1/4/07


(1). Tofu, even If I mistranslated verse 1, still verse 2 says they went from them: and they sacrificed unto Baalim. So is verse 2 saying that Jesus sacrificed to Baalim? I had asked Lisa to use her Hermeneutics to prove that this scripture was speaking of Jesus, but it doesnt. Literal Interpretation speaks nothing of Jesus unless you want to say that Jesus worshiped idols. If none of what ive just said makes sense please let me know and ill try to explane it in more detail.
---Billy on 1/4/07


(2). Tofu, you read Hosea 11 and tell me with a truthfull heart, is there anywhere in that chapter that the context is speaking of Jesus? I know it doesnt but why doesnt someone tell me what kind of formula for rightly dividing Gods Word is Matthew using?
---Billy on 1/4/07


(3). Tofu, If he wasnt using proper Hermeneutics and context, what kind of method for translating Gods Word did he use? It could have been the Spirit that spoke this to him. OO, I forgot that we need to keep the context to use proper translating methods so it couldnt have been God who showed this to Matthew. God bless.
---Billy on 1/4/07


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1/Tofurabby,

How do you harmonize or reconcile the verses (Acts 1:9-11, Luke 24:37, John 20:24-27, 1 John 3:2 and especially with 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:13-18) you cited with Pauls 1 Cor. 15:42-44: *Resurrection of the dead, etc. It sown a NATURAL BODY; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual one.* Is Paul saying two different things in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Cor. 15:42-44?
---I_AM_I on 1/4/07


2/ Tofurabby

As far as the ascension, that is not something limited to Jesus. The story of a doubting Thomas is an interesting study. I know you only read the Bible, as you told me, but the Gospel of Thomas shed light on what John did to Thomas in that verse. There is a big difference as to how Thomas sees Jesus and how John sees him. At least one scholar has highlighted the conflict between John and Thomas. Since you only read the Bible, you do not know the history
---I_AM_I on 1/4/07


3/Tofurabby

behind why John portrayed Thomas that way. That notwithstanding, Jesus eating fish reminded me of Abraham asking Sarah to bake bread so that Abraham and God (in the FLESH) can eat the bread. God, who is Spirit, ACTUALLY ate physical bread with Abraham. In the process of harmonizing Paul*s verses, please harmonize the one with Abraham and God eating bread.
---I_AM_I on 1/4/07


Billy, you are confusing Hosea 11:1,2 by assuming the 2 verses are speaking of 1 person. If you look closer, verse 1 is referring to "him", verse 2 is referring to "them". Also, notice verse 1 has a comma that shows the sentance has 2 distinct parts. The first word "when" tells us that it is setting up a timeframe. It could be read: when Israel was a young nation, at that time I loved him ...or then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt... when Israel was a child.
---tofurabby on 1/4/07


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(1). Tofu, didnt I say earlier that this was the Revelation of Jesus Christ. You have also claimed that this is of endtime events, so how could this be the Revelation of Jesus Christ? Tofu, when I say that this is a book that we should live, im saying that this book is to unveil Christ in us "The Revelation of Jesus Christ". The unveiling of Christ in us is a spiritual walk, and this walk takes us through many avenues that lets us see the image in the glass darkly more clearly.
---Billy on 1/4/07


(2). Tofu, The Revelation of Jesus Christ is of the things he will spiritually do, fulfill, complete, etc.... in our lives. Christ showed these things to John as a promise of what he will do in us all. You said, *To say Revelation is about us is silly, this is Christ's story.* Tofu, I never said that it was about us, its about Christ being revealed in us. Isnt it just as silly for you to say that Revelation is Christ being revealed in endtime events?
---Billy on 1/4/07


*Lisa, if this is true, then how is God to keep these things hid from the wise and prudent, and is to reveal them unto babes "Mat 11:25"?*
---Billy on 1/3/07


Excellent point, Billy. And so true.
---augusta on 1/4/07


(3). Tufu, when you said that this is Christ's story, I would have to agree 100%. Jesus came in the volume of the book that was written of himself to do his Fathers will, "Heb 10:7". But now Christs life is being written in our lives and understanding what Revelation is all about is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. It is a revealing of Christ in us. God bless
---Billy on 1/4/07


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-Billy, It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ... not the Revelation of Jesus Christ's followers. The Revelation of 1 and the things he will literally do, fulfill, complete, etc.... Christ showed these things to John as a promise of what he will do. It is not a metephorical image of each of our lives. To say Revelation is about us is silly, this is Christ's story. "...all things were created by him, and for him" Col. 1:16
---tofurabby on 1/4/07


(1). Lisa, you said, *Hermeneutics is the science and art of biblical interpretation.* So I ask, is this mans way to interpret the scriptures or is it Gods way? According to Hermeneutics, any man with a brain can interpret Gods word by learning the science of Hermeneutics. Lisa, if this is true, then how is God to keep these things hid from the wise and prudent, and is to reveal them unto babes "Mat 11:25"?
---Billy on 1/3/07


(2). Lisa, God isnt revealing his Word to everyone "Mat 13:11". Lisa, the best proper way to interpret scripture is not Literal Interpretation. I had given some good examples on another blog to Ramon as to how the the writers of the New Testament "rightly divided the Word" by overlooking the context of the words written, and assigning a different meaning to words other than their original meaning. Did they really do that? Yes they did!
---Billy on 1/3/07


(3). Lisa, by using your Hermeneutics and context of scripture, please tell me how Hosea 11:1,2 can possiably be refering to Jesus when the context of the scripture is refering to Israel being in Egypt sacrificing to Baalim? But Matthew "Mat 2:15" had no problem with taking Hosea 11:1,2 and refering it to Christ. Can I ask you, did Christ ever sacrifice to Baalim, and if he didnt, then how could Matthew make such a parallel to Hosea concerning Christ? God bless.
---Billy on 1/3/07


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Tofu, Rev 4:1 doesnt prove that John was shown literal reality to come. He was shown what was to be lived hereafter in the lives of every person that is to come to Christ. God bless
---Billy on 1/3/07


I am I, Thank you for your kind words. Youve done the same for me as well! I had never heard the phrase "Johannine Comma 1 John 5:7" till you presented it in the "what is the trinity blog". This helped me to search out the truth of 1 John 5:7. Thank you for bringing some light to the table.

Either way, I still look forward to discussing some other things with you, so ill get started on a post just for you :-).
God bless.
---Billy on 1/3/07


IAMI, Jesus left earth and ascended to heaven in his real life physical body and will return exactly as he left (Acts 1:9-11). They thought he was a spirit at first (Luke 24:37), but Thomas needed to know first hand that he was really physical (John 20:24-27). We will also be like he is (1 John 3:2). Those who died in Christ (the saved) will return with him (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:13-18).
---tofurabby on 1/3/07


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