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Sabbath Keeping Done Away

Does the following verse" Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: from Colossians 2:16 do away with the S.D.A. argument about keeping the Saturday Sabbath?

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Jeff, what tells us "there is a space of time in between the 7 weeks and 62 weeks" in Dan 9:25? Did you pull that out of the air?
---Geoff on 6/21/07


We are not to judge any man concerning how he worships God.Read Romans chap 14, as well. We are to share the gossip of Jesus Christ...that' it. We plant the seed then God does the rest. I have no opinions. I believe the Holy Bible. Each person has the same rights as I do. The same choices. I pray we all make the right choices.
---Robyn on 5/7/07


Geoff- "Are you with me?"

Were you waiting on me to respond? Don't forget one key element Geoff, in Dan.9:25 where it says "there will be 7 weeks AND 62 weeks. In the hebrew that little vav (and) means a whole lot. The time period for that vav is explained with the next half of the verse. there is a space of time in between the 7 weeks and 62 weeks.
---Jeff on 2/1/07


Jana, you misread my 1-28 post.

I said you did not observe feast days, nor circumcision, etc.
---John_T on 1/30/07


Jeff, let's get on the same page. When did the 70 weeks of Dan 9:24 begin? The Bible tells us in the next verse-v25: "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem." That happened in 457 BC-see Ezra 7:11-23. Are you with me?
---Geoff on 1/30/07




Geoff-2.And his end will be (to be swept away as)in a flood. Then until the end of the war,desolation is decreed. He(this prince to come not Messiah) will forge a strong covenant with the great ones for one septet;but for half of that septet he will abolish sacrifices & meal offering, and the mute abominations will be upon soaring heights,until extermination as decreed will pour down upon the mute(abomination).(cont'd)
---Jeff on 1/30/07


Geoff-3.If the messiah is the one who makes the 7 year covenant then breaks it, you have no covenant. if he even was the one who did this, it just shows that messiah did not ascend into heaven after the cruxifiction, because this covenant is what leads to the destruction of the temple in 70 CE. Also the one who makes this covenant IS the one who erects the mute abominations. Straight from the hebrew Geoff,if jesus fulfills this role of the prince to come then he would be disqualified as messiah.
---Jeff on 1/30/07


Geoff-1. here is the problems w/your interpretation of Dan.9:26-27. Dan.9.26: "Then, after the sixty-two septets, the Moshiach will be cut-off" Sixty-two seven year periods is simply 62 * 7 = 434 years, which brings forward the window, in which the Moshiach was prophesied to be "cut-off" to 30 C.E. This is the number that's important not the anointing or stephen being stoned. Also AFTER he's dead it says the people of the prince to come will destroy the city & sanctuary. (cont'd)
---Jeff on 1/30/07


Jeff, THEN comes "one who makes desolate"

Note the prophetic week: 27AD, Jesus anointed-Mt 3:13, Is 61:1, Lk 4:18; till 34AD, Stephen stoned & gospel goes to the world-Acts 7:59.
---Geoff on 1/29/07


Jeff, is Jesus refering 2 Himself? Absolutely. Follow scriptre Jeff.Read previous blog with texts 2 your accusation that follwing statement isnt biblical. He caused sacrifices 2 end n He bcame Lamb of God 2 cleanse our sins. Your quoting scripts here n there JOHN T we dont observe feast days its done away n bible is for all makind, not Judaism only.Read Jerry6593s statements. B spiritual and learned of the truth, not sda doctrine bashing.We preach what God gives us
---jana on 1/29/07




OK boys, let's cut to the chase. From your responses, I see that you believe that the Messiah foretold in Dan 9:25, 26 is a false Messiah, and that Daniel is a false prophet; since this prophecy did not occur. I would urge you to reconsider the direction you reasoning is leading you. [JohnT's "E/M = day" reasoning is too lame to bother explaining again.]
---jerry6593 on 1/29/07


Wow, I love it. let no man impose those things upon you, for God has not impose them. Intruding in those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind. Though there was a show of humility in the practice, there was a real pride in the principle. IN other words[MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.]
---CATHERINE on 1/29/07


Jeff asks "Matt 24:15 is referring to Daniel 9:27, right?"

NOT entirely. A common but understandable error. Dan 9:27a is about Messiah-v26. But Dan 11:31 is about 1 of 2 kings-11:27. Dan 12:11 gives timing. Jesus death was NOT the "abomination of desolation" but it DID "bring an end to sacrifice & offering" (Mt 27:51, Mk 15:38) & He DID confirmed the "Covenant with many" for seven yrs-1 prophetic week (AD 27-34)-see Dan 9:27 NKJV.
---Geoff on 1/29/07


The ten commandments is the only words in the Bible in which God wrote with His own finger, so since keeping the sabbath holy is also one of the ten commandments, I would think that there is a message there. Also God actually came to me one day and, guess what, HE warned me to do just that.
---CATHERINE on 1/29/07


Jerry needs to be reminded that God has been grinding away in determining who will and who will not merit salvation for over 162 years - since that great day in October 1844 when Jesus went into the heavenly sanctuary to begin judgment.
---lee on 1/28/07


Jerry, nice attempt at Scripture contortion! "days" themselves are sometimes used to represent "years" in OT prophecy... With this in mind, the Messiah prophecy of Dan 9:25-27 makes sense.

You conveniently gloss over thet "M&E" never means years, and instead revert to the SDA version to interpert SDA theology in Daniel.

Have you EVER checked out a non-SDA source on that verse?
---John_T on 1/28/07


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Jerry6593- 2."The prophecy also states that He would cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.you have been shown from the OT a prophecy where the Messiah ended the sacrificial system'

No all you have done is show him as a false messiah since he even states contrary to you that the ceasing of the sacrifice & oblation is a result of the false messiah.(Matt 24:15) BTW your calculations would put the messiah making this covenant & breaking it at 76 CE , 6 years AFTER the fall of the temple.
---Jeff on 1/28/07


Jerry6593- 3."You must then admit that either this unknown messiah (of 455 BCE) or Jesus was the true Messiah."

Deut.12:32-13:5. Thats all I need to know. You have already made him to be a false messiah by saying that he is the one who fulfills Dan.9:27. Try reading Dan.9:22-27 with understanding.
Try again to show me a OT passage that states the messiah will do away with the sacrifices. Hint: you can't & won't find it, it doesn't exist!
---Jeff on 1/28/07


Jerry6593- 1."And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"

The hebrew states that the one making this covenant will wage war with Israel, establish a covenant,then break the covenant partway by putting an end to sacrifices & erecting the mute abomination, this is the abomination of desolation. You do realize that Matt 24:15 is referring to Daniel 9:27, right? Is jesus referring to himself?
---Jeff on 1/28/07


Jeff, Thanks for telling us where you hang your theological hat (Yarmulke)!

I thought you were Jesish, as you wrote about G*d, etc.

What causes you to enter this blog? For me, its obvious errors within the SDAs, and their inconsistences.

For example they insist on observing shabbat, but do not light the candles. They do not observe the feast days, nor do they circumcize with a Bris.

Nevertheless they they condemn others for not following their partial observances of Judiasm.
---John_T on 1/27/07


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(1)
OK Jeff, here you go. No one here has ever stated that the Hebrew "ereb boqer" or "yom" are ever translated as "years." This is an invention of John T to have something to argue about. What has been stated (but conveniently forgotten) is that "days" themselves are sometimes used to represent "years" in OT prophecy (e.g., Num 14:34; Eze 4:5). With this in mind, the Messiah prophecy of Dan 9:25-27 makes sense. No other interpretation does.
---jerry6593 on 1/27/07


(2)
Dan 9:25-27 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: ..... And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: ..... And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"
---jerry6593 on 1/27/07


(3)
The final commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes in 457 BCE (see Ezra 6 &7). Using the day = year rule, and beginning with Artaxerxes decree, the above 69-week prophecy predicts the coming of the Messiah in 27 ACE the exact time of Jesus' baptism by John, and his annointing by the Holy Spirit. Further, Dan 9:24 states that 70 weeks were determined (or cut off from) Daniel's people (Jews) - that is, one week after the arrival of Messiah.
---jerry6593 on 1/27/07


(4)
Jesus was crucified (cut off, but not for Himself) 3 1/2 years after His baptism - exactly in the midst of the week prophesied by Daniel. The prophecy also states that He would cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. (This was fulfilled according to the NT when the veil of the temple was rent at Jesus death on the cross.) OK Jeff, you have been shown from the OT a prophecy where the Messiah ended the sacrificial system.
---jerry6593 on 1/27/07


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(5)
Now I shall demand of you an explanation of Daniel's 69 week prophecy (as well as his 2300-day prophecy) without the day = year principle. I will expect you to show the arrival of the Messiah a year and 4 months (you know, a day = a literal day) after Artaxerxes decree. You must then admit that either this unknown messiah (of 455 BCE) or Jesus was the true Messiah. Or perhaps you don't believe that Daniel was God's true prophet.
---jerry6593 on 1/27/07


John T-"Jeff, thank you for acknowledging the obvious from the Hebrew. No other SDA here has done that re Dan8:14."

You do know I'm not SDA right? For that matter I'm not even christian. I'm orthodox jewish so please keep that in mind when you accidentally might want to lump me in with them. I do however follow Ad'mor Moshiach Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef of Natzeret, who is NOT your jesus. 2 different guys.
---Jeff on 1/26/07


John T- 1. "Can you also acknowledge that those interperting the phrase to place a date on the "sanctuary cleaning" as 1844 have no basis in fact from the Hebrew, either?"

This is a timeline of evening and morning sacrifices ONLY, equal to about 6.39 years when all sacrifices have been added up. You are correct, the 1844 date has no basis. Sounds to me like more christian misinterpretation. (cont'd)
---Jeff on 1/26/07


John T- 2. The one thing I can say though John is this, the description of the false one is one who would do away with the sacrifices, this is why jews don't accept the christian jesus, because according to your teachings you make him fit this description. You say he did away with sacrifices, guess what? he now fits the description of the false one. Show me a prophecy where G-d says the messiah will end the sacrifcial system. No NT! Do like jesus and show me from the OT.
---Jeff on 1/26/07


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Jeff, thank you for acknowledging the obvious from the Hebrew. No other SDA here has done that re Dan8:14.

Can you also acknowledge that those interperting the phrase to place a date on the "sanctuary cleaning" as 1844 have no basis in fact from the Hebrew, either?
---John_T on 1/26/07


John T- "Now, can you find any incidence in the OT where the same phrase in Hebrew is translated as "years"?"

John I am assuming you're referring to the 2300 evenings and mornings. In the original hebrew it translates as "until nightfall(erev), morning(bocher), 2300;& then the holy one will be rectified." This verse does not use anywhere the word for "years". Whoever said it does has no idea what they are talking about.
---Jeff on 1/26/07


Jeff, lets not get huffy about a fumble fingering on the keyboard!

I meant Daniel 8:14, and I apologize for that.

Now, can you find any incidence in the OT where the same phrase in Hebrew is translated as "years"?
---John_T on 1/25/07


Name calling again, Jerry? Your pedantic and derogatory demeanor consistently show your lack of Christian conversion.

My how short you are on the facts to do that!

However, I will not hold it against you if you are able to show me where the HEBREW phrase in Daniel 8:14, "evenings and mornings" is translated as "years" as EGW and the Millerites allege, to their shame.
---John_T on 1/25/07


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Jeff, you shamelessly show the condemnatory spirit of EGW reverting to name calling:

Never having been raised in the Law, you learned the ways of lawlessness. That explains your rejoicing in your lawlessness.

Christians disagree over many non essential things, but to do as you have done to others and me is out of line.
Deal with the facts w/o attacking people.

Can you prove that eating pork CAUSES leprosy & cancer as EGW said?
---John_T on 1/25/07


Sorry Jerry but JohnT and I recognize Biblical scholarship the Lord has given the church over the centuries.

The SDA on the other hand refuses to recognize Biblical scholarship of any age.

They even refuse to recognize the fact that the KJV translation of Daniel 8:14 upon which their unique belief is based, is not supported at all from the Hebrew language. Golly, even a beginning student of Hebrew can see that.

Are you really afraid of the truth?
---lee on 1/25/07


"I guess we are wrong ...., huh?" Yes John T, you and Lee are very wrong. Your pedantic and derogatory demeanor consistently show your lack of Christian conversion. You have been shown the biblical basis for the day-year principle of prophetic interpretation (e.g. Num 14:34, Eze 4:6), and the evidence of its veracity in the messianic prophecy of Dan 9:25, yet you rail against that for which you have no explanation at all - the meaning of the 2300-day prophecy of Dan 8:14. Shame on you!
---jerry6593 on 1/25/07


"Does Colossians 2:16 do away with the S.D.A. argument about keeping the Saturday Sabbath?*

It is interesting that even SDA scholar Samuele Bacchiocchi, theologian & church historian at Andrews Univ. even conceded that Col. 2:16 refers to the weekly Sabbath observance; not only the festival SabbathS that many SDA want to maintain.

But what do you do with those that simply will not admit what they believe in is in error? Sometimes the "seeds of truth" falls on stony ground.
---lee on 1/25/07


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JohnT-" Daniel 8:44 says in HEBREW "evenings and mornings","

You must have that new christian "add to and take away" bible. This verse does not exist.
---Jeff on 1/25/07


John T-"Just as we do not go back to learn spelling, we do not go back to learn the law. It is done away with."

Once you learn how to spell, you continue in it the rest of your life, just as IF you had learned the Torah(Laws)you would continue in them the rest of your life. That was the point Paul was making. Since you didn't learn Laws or ever kept them, you were never under the schoolmaster in the first place. If you did you would understand this passage correctly.
---Jeff on 1/25/07


John T- "Grown up Christians are no longer under the elementary school teacher of the law."

Grown up christians have been raised in the wrong school. Sad thing is you think your education is correct but it is not. Never having been raised in the Law, you have learned the ways of lawlessness. That explains your rejoicing in your lawlessness.
---Jeff on 1/25/07


Lee-"not by works of the law" (Romans 3:20).

When Paul refers to "works of the law" it was a term used to describe circumcision only. This belief is still around today that one has to be circumcised to merit the "world to come". This statement has nothing to do with keeping Torah. James says in James 2:24 that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. How would YOU, Lee reckon this seeming contradiction if we go with YOUR interpretation of Romans 3:20?
---Jeff on 1/25/07


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Since when are Lee and I mean and evil because we point out errors? If a blind person is in a pit, is it not "Christian" to help him out?

Well that is what we do. If y'all do not like the truth we state either deal with it, or show it false by using well-accepted sources, not cobbling non-related passages together.
---John_T on 1/24/07


Lee reminded us of this Scripture: "the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith"(Gal. 3:24-25)

Notice the inherent metaphor of growth Paul uses. Grown up Christians are no longer under the elementary school teacher of the law.

Just as we do not go back to learn spelling, we do not go back to learn the law. It is done away with.

Why? So that we might be justified by faith, not adhering to elementary school things.
---John_T on 1/24/07


If we are so mean to the SDAs then why is it that no one has EVER been able to refute the fact that Daniel 8:44 says in HEBREW "evenings and mornings", and that there is NO place in the Bible where that exact phrase can ever be interperted as "years".

I guess we are wrong when we show things like that, huh?

Gimme a break! Look up some GOOD (non-SDA) commentaries. You will see your error plainly
---John_T on 1/24/07


audrey - *God set up His law to be kept 'forever.'*

So you beleive than that one should obey ALL Old Testament laws such as circumcision, observing the feasts, civil laws, cultural customs,temple worship, tithing, etc. (there are around 613 of them)?

Or do we need only follow moral laws?
---lee on 1/24/07


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hi brian. People are truly taking scriptures out of context, thinking that all of a sudden, God changed His Holy Laws. We need to understand the time frame and put the Bible together Old AND New Testament. Jesus did not come to destroy the law. I agree with you and I'm sorry that people think SDA are a cult. God set up His law to be kept 'forever.' Jesus paid the penalty, but not for us to keep breaking the law. It is how we KNOW righteousness. I used the ex. before about running a stop sign.
---audrey on 1/24/07


Well, God told me, "to keep it holy and to rest. Later He said,"Do only WHAT IS NECESSARY." good day.
---CATHERINE on 1/24/07


*The law is given as a guide for this life. Not as an arbitrary means to enter the next.*

The problem is that they certainly ignore that fact that "the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith"(Gal. 3:24-25) and "not by works of the law" (Romans 3:20).

---lee on 1/24/07


I appreciate your theological discussion and hate to intrude but FYI, no serious SDA believes that by living under the law he is saved. The SDA just wonders, would God give the Hebrews laws that are arbitrary? An SDA lives 9 years longer than a nonSDA. This is because of the dietary law. The SDA worships from sundown to sundown. Do you not see a value in that! The law is given as a guide for this life. Not as an arbitrary means to enter the next.
---Brian_Smith on 1/24/07


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Lee: You asked "Jerry - was Jim Jones also a Sabbatherian?" No, he kept the same counterfeit sabbath as you do. BTW, it's "Sabbatarian," not "Sabbatherian." Once again, EGW did not have a brain injury, it was a nose injury, and your "credible" medical sources are not credible. Do you actually subscribe to the notion that a lie told often enough will become fact?
---jerry6593 on 1/24/07


Lee, actually Jim Jones used Flavour Aide.

But David Koresh (nee Vernon Wayne Howell) was also a Sabbatatian, and they used AK 47s and gasoline to leave this world, April 19, 1990, celebratig Hitler's b'day coincidentally, just as they did in Colombine Colorado years later.
---Observer on 1/23/07


Lee, we agree re: Dispensationalism. I did not include Scofield, Pentecost; seminaries like Dallas, Trinity, schools like Moody or Phila College ofBible.

You are correct these are a distinctive school of Biblical interpertation likewise Reformed institutions like Calvin, Westminster, or Arminian etc.

Each respects the other, since each sees the biblical basis for the other.

That is NOT the case with any of the SDA schools, and that was the basis of my use of Dispensationalism.
---John_T on 1/23/07


jhonney - *Lee, that is a riot, catatonic epileptic. And you are serious. That was even a bigger laugh. Wow!*

What is more interesting and maybe even a bigger laugh is that most of the diagnoses on Ellen White came from SDA medical schools; one being Loma Linda. Of course, the hardshelled SDA will accuse them of being heretics; denying the one true faith.

Reference: Visions or Partial Complex Seizures, Dr. Delbert Holder, Loma Linda Univ. published in Evangelica 1981 (an SDA magazine)
---lee on 1/23/07


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I could be getting in trouble here, but Lee I read that post again and each time it cracks me up. I do need to ask though is this knowledge of Ellen White's condition from a veritable source. I suspect there must be contention to such a proposal. I understand from Bob Trefz(spelling?) that there have been disappointing changes from his view.
---jhonny on 1/23/07


Lee, that is a riot, catatonic epileptic. And you are serious. That was even a bigger laugh. Wow!
---jhonny on 1/22/07


John T - Dispensationalism is merely a means of studying Scripture in terms of eras of time during which man is tested in respect to obedience to some definite revelation of God's will.

I suppose like Calvinism, one can go to extremes in interpretations.

C.I. Scofield probably did more to popularize dispensational premillennialism in his footnotes to his Scofield Bible.
---lee on 1/22/07


Gina 3/ Another example of a new doctrine making it into mainstream theology is Dispensationalism, begun in 1830 or so by Scotlands JN Darby, and the morphing of it into the belief of pretribulational rapture.

Thus, it is also ignorant to put down scholarship of any sort, especially if it advances our knowledge of Scripture, and does not violate either principle stated above.
---John_T on 1/22/07


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Gina 2/ New doctrines from studying are always subject to scrutiny by others to see if 1) they are supported by Scripture, and 2) do not destroy any other doctrine. Examples passing both tests are Calvinism, Arminianism, Lutheranism, Anabaptist and Weslean theologies.

Both JWs and SDAs fail either one or both tests. JWs adhere to the Arian heresy, condemned in 325, Nycea, and SDAs adhere to the Galatians heresy condemned by Paul. Both wish to force all to return to works-righteousness.
---John_T on 1/22/07


Gina, Basically, heresy is teaching extrabiblical things. Closer defined, it is things that are at odds with the early churchs didactic Ecumenical Creeds, such as the Apostles creed and Nycea (325). They merely state, This is correct . They are catholic insofar as they are believed by ALL churches, excepting Mormons, JWs and SDAs. They are bare minimums of belief.

However calling them Roman Catholic is inaccurate, and being ignorant of historical facts.
---John_T on 1/22/07


jhonney - Seventh Day Adventists believe that Rome is the Great Harlot of Rev. 17 and that the Protestant churches are allied with her. But that belief was advanced by Ellen White who suffered a brain injury as a child and was diagnosed as a catatonic epileptic by medical experts who studied her symptoms.

In short if you hold to what your church believes in but are not a SDA, you are an evil person bec you do not obey the Mosaic Ten Commandments esp. the 4th commandment.
---lee on 1/22/07


"They may well be Jesuit infiltrators. Do you ever get the feeling that they would burn you at the stake if they could?"
---jerry6593 on 1/20/07
Jerry are you aware of such an infiltration?
Both John Paul 11 and Pope Benedict have referenced them.
---jhonny on 1/22/07


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Could you tell me. Are there any indications from the land that the 7th day is the best for rest.
Kevin Trudeau refers to a cycle of some sork in his book, but it is not the land. Specifically I was wondering if you knew anything about the land and the sabbath.
---jhonny on 1/22/07


Jerry - was Jim Jones also a Sabbatherian?

I guess for some the only way out of a cult is by way of the Kool-Aid.
---lee on 1/22/07


mariaj: I suppose you consider Jim Jones a reformer as well.
---jerry6593 on 1/22/07


[Only a few liberal new theology wolves in sheep's clothing have expressed such a view (that Ellen White had epilepsy)]

They used to call them Reformers.
---mariaj on 1/21/07


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Lee i disagree with you in that i think we should follow the old testament but i am dissapointed in the guy who speaks ill of you. HAVE YOU ALL FORGOTTEN WHO WE ARE?? we having excepted Messiah as our saviour and believed on him are ALL God's children and "you are not to sow discord among brethren" that's from the old testament, so if please stop with the slander and don't give the excuse that it is ok to get "fired up" unless you would say these things to the face of our saviour
---Lincoln on 1/21/07


Gina - *Heretics were burned at the stake to get rid of their Biblical beliefs.*

Very true but do you know of any Sabbatherians that were burned at the stake? Fox's book of martyxs reveals none that I know of only those that loved the lord and often met on the 1st day of the week for communal worship in accordance to that tradition established by the apostles.
---lee on 1/20/07


Adventists equate eschatological Babylon with the Roman papacy & her harlotrous offspring (Rev. 17:5), the other Protestant churches who contine to follow various Roman practices, such as Sunday observance. p.370 A theologian journey from SDA to mainstream Christianity, Dr. Jerry Gladson.
---lee on 1/20/07


There is a mountain of evidence that Ellen White was an epileptic from those in the medical field who have diagnosed her medical situation and analyzed the observation of others.

I would agree that many SDA would not want to acknowledge that but much like the old proverbial saying 'some cannot see the woods for the trees'.

We do know from her own testimony that she experience a brain injury as a child and brain injuries do manifest themselves in ways evidenced by Ellen White.
---lee on 1/20/07


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Jerry6593. Has there been a suspicion of jesuit infiltration.
---jhonny on 1/20/07


Jerry:"Gina: If you look at several of the key words used by Lee and John T (e.g. heretic, heterodox, church fathers, etc.), as well as their adoration of modern scholarship above the clear teachings of scripture, a pattern begins to develop. They may well be Jesuit infiltrators. Do you ever get the feeling that they would burn you at the stake if they could?" Yes. They claim to not hate us, only the heretical beliefs, but Heretics were burned at the stake to get rid of their Biblical beliefs.
---Gina on 1/20/07


*You, sir are a bearer of false witness. But that's not a problem for you because you refuse to keep God's Commandments anyway*

One trait often found among Adventists is that they do not hestitate to slander other Christians by accusing them of not obeying the 10 Commandments - the first & foremost to them being the ceremonial Sabbath commandment.

In that sense, they do indeed bear false witness like the "accuser of our brethren" Rev. 12;10
---lee on 1/20/07


*If you look at ... key words used by Lee and John T (e.g. heretic, ..., church fathers, ...),...their adoration of modern scholarship above scripture, a pattern begins to develop*

Jerry's posts reveals that a pattern of arguments based on conspiracy theories (e.g. 'they are Jesuits in disguise').

The truth often conflicts with many of their pre-conceived ideas; blaming 'modern scholarship' or interpretations of Scripture that hold more water then their leaky buckets can hold.
---lee on 1/20/07


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Lee: You wrote "It is a well known fact even among Adventists that Ellen White was an epileptic." I have been an Adventist for many years, and have known many, many Adventists. I've never met a single person who considered our prophet Ellen G. White to be an epileptic. Only a few liberal new theology wolves in sheep's clothing have expressed such a view. You, sir are a bearer of false witness. But that's not a problem for you because you refuse to keep God's Commandments anyway.
---jerry6593 on 1/20/07


Gina: If you look at several of the key words used by Lee and John T (e.g. heretic, heterodox, church fathers, etc.), as well as their adoration of modern scholarship above the clear teachings of scripture, a pattern begins to develop. They may well be Jesuit infiltrators. Do you ever get the feeling that they would burn you at the stake if they could?
---jerry6593 on 1/20/07


rhonda.c - It is a well known fact even among Adventists that Ellen White was an epileptic. Some medical types have even concluded that her visions were the result of a type of seizure called "psychomotor" or "partial-complex" seizure.

I know that is sound 'insulting' to be told that you follow someone that had a brain injury, but the facts are there.
---lee on 1/17/07


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