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Has The Church Replaced Israel

I was wondering how many believe that the Church has totally replaced Israel in the promise and blessings of the Lord according to scripture?

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I do not believe Dan 12 says only some awake. It says two groups awake. One group is the saved. The other is the lost.

Since all are either saved or lost that means all awake.

Jews are coming to JESUS every day they are not cast aside. Being a Jewish person does not keep you from being saved. Neither does it save you. All can be saved. Which I know those here are Calvanist disagree with.

But Salvation is by Grace alone not because of ancestory.
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
---Samuel on 12/16/11


Jesus Christ is the central figure of the Christian faith. It's plain in Paul's letters "Christ is all, and in all" (Col 3:11). Paul says all the believer has or needs is found "in Christ."

It surprises many, that Paul states our Lord's ministry on earth excluded most who read these words: (Rom. 15:8).

Paul makes no mistake for he was writing by inspiration, and we have records of Christ's earthly ministry that agree with Paul.

Listening to most teaching on our Lord's earthly ministry, one would think it was primarily to Gentiles. Wrong! passages like the following have been ignored by Bible teachers who claim a part in Christ's earthly ministry:
(Matt 10:5,6).
(Matt 15:24).
(John 4:22).
---michael_e on 12/16/11


Rom 4:13 For the promise, ....not to Abraham, or...seed, through law, but ..righteousness of faith.

Rom 9:7 ... In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Here is what scripture says.
---Samuel on 12/15/11

Indeed you are correct as these above tie with all the prophets. Pertinent language highlighted. GOD scripture states for-ever, Everlasting. We shouldn't doubt or avoid he'll deliver and prove.
"Many" below is not "all". Some never awake...but, the doctrines today say all will. I'd rather embrace truth than doctrines of men. We all choose.
Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.
---Trav on 12/16/11


Trav, Those that believe in the Lord, makeup the Spiritual Israel of God.
The flesh profits nothing. Thanks for debating, blessings to you.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/11

There was never any debate, except with you and the scriptural witnesses. You never addressed them, by default they won. They always do having the authority of GOD to enlighten. Authority you presume, but never acknowledge you lack. No burn intended, just an observed truth.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, knowledge shall be increased.

Here is your increase...Heb 8:8. The foundation I started with and end with.
---Trav on 12/16/11


I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
---Rod4Him on 12/16/11




Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Here is what scripture says.
---Samuel on 12/15/11


The promises are true.
But if you do not belive in them or follow GOD can they be to you?
---Samuel on 12/13/11

Find the witnesses GOD provides. They are there.

If my father promised me and give to another ....?
Do we will our kids inheritance to strangers? Chinese? Kurds? Estonians? No, it is your son's.
If your sons cup overflows....who catchs the overflow? Was womans daughter healed because of her faith? Touch of a robe healed one also.
There is no limit to the GOD of Israel. GOD of all whether acknowledged or not.
Matt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
---Trav on 12/15/11


There are many Jewish Christians who follow GOD. In fact some of the main leaders, writers and teachers in my denomination are Jewish by birth.

Paul discusses in Galaton and Romans about the importance of belief and faith as being whether you are part of Isarel to wo the promises are made. The promises are true.

But if you do not belive in them or follow GOD can they be to you?
---Samuel on 12/13/11


There is a reason GOD chose the wife he did.
She tended sheep as profession, not Lions and Bears)
---Trav on 12/9/11

Hosea 12:12
And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep.
Ezekiel 34:6
My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
Psalm 95:7
For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
---Trav on 12/13/11


Those are part of Isarel are by faith not inhertance.
---Samuel on 12/8/11

Even if so, and you could put 2+ scriptures showing this negated all the prophets....it does not negate two words. For-ever and ever-lasting.

21As for me, this is my covenant with them,

saith the LORD,My spirit that is upon thee,
my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed,
saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

(We should not cast away the tenders of the vineyard which GOD has chosen for the work. There is a reason GOD chose the wife he did.
She tended sheep as profession, not Lions and Bears)
---Trav on 12/9/11




Steven, if you stop now, I'm going to miss out on many rewards. I'm going to tell you a secret, I prayed for you before I answered. I pray not only for you but everyone else who answers, heretics included, and be one of the elect and that if you are not saved yet, that you will.
I thank God for giving me breath. My pride is in giving the glory to Christ not only for dying for me but for giving me His love. I know everyone has a purpose in the plan of God, you, I, and even the false teachers, good teachers, murderer's etc. No one's here on earth because he wanted to be born. We're here because of God. So don't worry about me, worry about yourself. Make your calling and election sure. I am praying for you and all my brothers and sisters.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/11


Mark_V.: "So now you made time to persecute me."

Relax, take a deep breath, breath out. Put aside your pride and thank God that I'm here. Let gratitude dominate your thinking and reap the benefits to your mental, physical, emotional and spiritual health. Read Proverbs 17:22 and Philippians 4:6. The spirit expressly asks you to also read Psalms 73.
---Steveng on 12/8/11


Yes I believe what the scriptures say about a new Covenant made with Israel.

Those are part of Isarel are by faith not inhertance.
---Samuel on 12/8/11


Those who live by faith are the Children of Abraham see Galations.
---Samuel on 12/7/11

Agree. Do u have faith that these below are true?

Isa 59:17For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, an helmet of salvation upon his head, ....

21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD, My spirit that is upon thee, my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Heb 8:8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 12/8/11


Those who live by faith are the Children of Abraham see Galations. Those who live by works are not for they have left the truth to bring about their own righteousness.
---Samuel on 12/7/11


Trav, you said no one knows who the Israel of God is, but you are wrong. Most of us know.

When will you?
---Steveng on 12/4/11


Perhaps we differ? I'm willing to look at your scriptural witnesses. All of them. I will not go against them. I will Berean them to see if all witnesses uphold the same. Old Cov and New Cov. They should never argue right? They should be aligned.

You claim you know but, you don't share what you know to one that is searching? Pointing cost you nothing but a few keystrokes. Point to the hundreds of witnesses. Otherwise you maybe implying wouldn't reach for one who was wrong? Hmmmm.
---Trav on 12/5/11


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---Mark_V. on 12/5/11

Good explaination
---francis on 12/5/11


francis, I believe most of those people you mentioned were saved, the reason I said "all who believed in the Coming Christ, or who now believe, make up the Church no matter where they come from." The gentiles as a whole were not included until Acts. Sure there were some gentiles in the Old T.
But here is where I want you be careful on, the words "they were saved or received eternal life" is not mentioned. Maybe there is one or two, but I have not read that. Some had the love of God like David, others had faith, many were moved by the Holy Spirit, but we are not told if they were actually saved. We assume they were because of their faith.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/11


Steven G, did the remarks you made to me, make you feel like a better Christian?
That is what happens from those so call themselves christians who persecute the Church of Christ. The spiritual Church of Christ is the body of believers born of the Spirit.
So now you made time to persecute me. Go for it. I'm suppose to suffer for the sake of Christ. Keep it going. The more I suffer the more the rewards. Curse me if you want. Do what is in your heart as you have done before. I will still be here to proclaim the gospel of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/11


Mark_V.: I believe most of us know that he was a great guy after his conversion, and one terrible guy before his conversion. Can you tell us what is the reason for your answers?

As soon as you tell the world what future date you are going to be converted.
---Steveng on 12/4/11


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Mark_V.: Trav, you said no one knows who the Israel of God is, but you are wrong. Most of us know.

When will you?
---Steveng on 12/4/11


Abraham was a man of faith. He too believed. So did many others. They were a part of the Church and so were the remnant that God reserved. The only difference is that Gentiles were not included yet until after the Cross. ---Mark_V. on 11/30/11

Explain this, and explain how Rehab, the queen of sheba, the people in ninevah, and ethiopean tresurer who were all gentiles were not part of this church of which Abraham was.

If you say that they did not have faith, then show me the scripture
---francis on 12/4/11


//all believers by faith make up the Church. No matter where they come from or from what age in history.//
Good thought, but do you have scripture for it?
---michael_e on 12/4/11


francis, all believers by faith make up the Church. No matter where they come from or from what age in history. But what I wanted you to see is that when you give passages you have to read the context. Just been a believer does not make someone saved. They have to have faith. Another thing, the meaning of saved has different meanings, some were saved from slavery, others from the destruction of Sodom, while some were saved it does not always mean eternal salvation. Yes, there were some who were not Israelites who received faith, they too make up the Church. The Israelites were saved also, from slavery. But as a whole rejected Christ yet within Israel, God reserved His elect.
---Mark_V. on 12/4/11


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Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not
Esther 8:17 And many of the people of the land became Jews,
Acts 8:27 a man of Ethiopia,..had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
Jonah 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God
Luke 11:31 The queen of the south ...

All these people belived just as Abraham did, and none of them were hebrews
Which proved that if Abraham was part of the church before the cross, then so too are these many people.

then lets us not forget the
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven...Jews and proselytes ( gentile who accepted the gospel BEFORE the cross)
---francis on 12/3/11


Samuel, your conclusion to those passages are wrong. You have to remember that all believers make up the Church. No matter where you come from. There was believers in the Old Testament. Abraham was a man of faith. He too believed. So did many others. They were a part of the Church and so were the remnant that God reserved. The only difference is that Gentiles were not included yet until after the Cross. Those whom you mentioned. The Old Testament believers had a promise note that was completed after the Cross. They believed in the Coming Christ. Yet He had not come yet at the time of their faith. Mark_V.

I agree. I am sorry for making it seem I did not believe this.
---Samuel on 12/2/11


//Can you tell us what is the reason for your answers?//
Mark, here are a few answers
Acts 9:15 1 Cor.11:1 Gal 2:8 1 Tim. 1:16 Eph 3:2 2Pet. 3:15,16
One reason why he was so great.
//great guy after his conversion, and one terrible guy before his conversion//
---michael_e on 12/2/11


1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out...:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
---Samuel on 11/29/11

Peculiar, meant special/separate in KJames time.
Deut 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all nations upon earth.
Psa135:4
For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.
Nth House of Ten were not a people by putting away/divorce.....until Christ's death.
---Trav on 12/2/11


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Michael, I notice that you constantly bring the name of Paul up, and try to make a point of how great he was, but you never bring anyone else up or speak about them. What is it that you are trying to convey? I believe most of us know that he was a great guy after his conversion, and one terrible guy before his conversion. Can you tell us what is the reason for your answers?
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11


From the beginning, having dual citizenship, Paul, apostle to the gentiles was clearly separate and distinct from the twelve(apostles to Israel)He was called and commissioned far from
Jerusalem. His appointment was "not of men, neither
by man," but by the glorified Lord Himself (Gal. 1:1). He was, from the start, called to a different ministry than the twelve: "to testify the gospel of the grace of God," to "preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of
Christ" (Acts 20:24, Eph. 3:8).
---michael_e on 11/30/11


Samuel, your conclusion to those passages are wrong. You have to remember that all believers make up the Church. No matter where you come from. There was believers in the Old Testament. Abraham was a man of faith. He too believed. So did many others. They were a part of the Church and so were the remnant that God reserved. The only difference is that Gentiles were not included yet until after the Cross. Those whom you mentioned. The Old Testament believers had a promise note that was completed after the Cross. They believed in the Coming Christ. Yet He had not come yet at the time of their faith.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/11


1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:


1Pe 2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The Church according to Peter is now the people of GOD. Which Jews can join at any time. Except in ages past many who called themelves Christians murdered jews in the name of JESUS.
---Samuel on 11/29/11


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Trav, I find no connection between ( Eze. 37:5 and Luke 23:30). Luke is speaking of believers seating with the Lord in His kingdom. Judging the twelve tribes of Israel. That would have to be at "The Great White Throne of Judgment" Because no mention about believers been judge there. Believers are judge for rewards at "The Judgment Seat of Christ" And there is no unbelievers there or any mention of the twelve tribes getting any rewards, only believers.
---Mark_V. on 11/29/11


//Michael, the Church did not replaced Israel. The Israel of God is the Church// Mark ???
Ex. 19:5,6..." These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the "children of Israel." .."a kingdom of priests and a holy nation"
Gal.2:9 we(Paul, Barnabas) should go unto the heathen, and they(Peter, James and John) unto the circumcision.

Acts 8:1 and they(Israel) were "all scattered" abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles .

1 Pet. 1:1Peter, an apostle(to Israel) of Jesus Christ, to the "strangers(Israel) scattered"
1 Pet. 2:9.. "an holy nation,"(What nation? Ex. 19)
---michael_e on 11/29/11


Trav, you said no one knows who the Israel of God is, but you are wrong.
You want to believe the Israel of the flesh goes to heaven, but they don't. ---Mark_V. on 11/28/11

Your opinion/doctrine vs Scripture.
Christ was resurrected in physical form. Ate and Drank, they touched him.
Ezekiel 37:5
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones, Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
Luke 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
---Trav on 11/29/11


Michael, the Church did not replaced Israel. The Israel of God is the Church. God on Mount Sinai, said "if" the Israelites obeyed His voice, "then" they would be "a special treasure...a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" Ex. 19:5,6. In a letter to believers Peter quoted the same words and applied them to God's Church. "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people.. who once were not a people but are now the people of God" 1 Peter 2:9,1. In Old T. days, God spoke about "Israel My elect" Isaiah 45:4. In New T. times, Paul also called true believers in the Messiah both Jews and Gentiles "the elect of God" Col. 3:11,12.
---Mark_V. on 11/28/11


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No, Mark, I had the right vs.
Rom. 11 1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
vs 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel,(how long) until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
His "people" was Israel, the Church the Body of Christ has not replaced them.
---michael_e on 11/28/11


Trav, you said no one knows who the Israel of God is, but you are wrong. Most of us know. You want to believe the Israel of the flesh goes to heaven, but they don't. Only those who place their faith on the Messiah. We do know that not all Israel is Israel. Only those who are spirit filled. When Spirit-filled Stephen looked back into history, what did he call Israel in Moses time? He called Israel, "The Church in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38). Thus according to Stephan-whose backward glance was enightened by the Holy Ghost perception-Old Testament Israel was God's Church. The Elect of God, the remnant of God.
---Mark_V. on 11/28/11


Rom 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles(completion of the BOC) be come in.
---michael_e on 11/27/11

Note one thing on this site. No one knows who Israel is. Judah makes 1/12 where are the rest?
Note that from the puffiest preacher to the most humble...no one looks for her (Israel)either. Reasons are multiple.
In the scripture above "blindness in part", means Judah. Until the fullness (opposite of Part) of the ("Nations/Ethnos" meaning the Nth House of "ten" divorced who lost her married name) be come in.
All prophets confirm.
---Trav on 11/28/11


Michael, you gave Romans 11:1, but your answer is in (v.4), the people God was to save are the people, the one's He foreknew before the foundation of the world.
"I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal" Those were the remnant of God, and what happened to the others? they were cut off. And he goes on to say, "even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to election of grace, And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace" And what did God do to the others? "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear to this very day"
---Mark_V. on 11/28/11


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This is a frivolous and unbeatable debate. Most of you will argue your case until your ears turn blue and never get anywhere. Most christians don't know for absolutely sure what the bible says about this topic as you can tell by reading these posts. The only thing for sure is what a christians is suppose to do.
---Steveng on 11/27/11


//All things pertaining to Israel is fulfilled in Christ.//
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles(completion of the BOC) be come in.



---michael_e on 11/27/11


Michael, only those who believe by faith will be saved. All things pertaining to Israel is fulfilled in Christ. Israel was a "vine" in Psa. 80:8, yet Jesus Christ declared, "I am the true Vine" ( John 15:1). God referred to the nation of Israel as "My firstborn" (Ex. 4:22), yet Paul later called our Messiah "the Firstborn over all creation" ( Col. 1:15). The prophet Isaiah clearly called Israel "the seed of Abraham" (Isaiah 41:8), Yet Paul wrote, "Now to Abraham and his "Seed" were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds" as if many" but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ" (Gal. 3:16).
---Mark_V. on 11/27/11


//Michael, the Church is the spiritual Israel of God//
Mark if that is the case, is the 12 tribes of Israel that
the 12 apostles to Israel are to rule over (Matt.19) spiritual or physical Israel?
---michael_e on 11/26/11


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Gos is not a racist. Jesus is the King of Israel, and all whom are baptized into him have put on Israel: and all whom reject him, whether Jew or NonJew are NonIsraelites and are the enemy of the true Israel of God. Some souls born in Israel does not automatically make them God's Israelite, for only the faitful are God's and all who have not his Spirit are none of his.
---Eloy on 11/26/11


Michael, the Church is the spiritual Israel of God. Within God's chosen nation, there was always a group of people who were God's Elect. Those were the one's who had faith in God. The story of Jacob which literally meant, "deceiver" or "crook" is a great story of how Israel came to be. The word Israel literally means, "Prince with God" Thus the name Israel itself was a spiritual name, sybolizing Jacobs spiritual victory over his past sin of deception. Israel first applied to a victorious man, then a people. God called this nation "My Son, My firstborn" Were told Israel was "a vine" God brought out of Egypt. To Israel "But thou, Israel, art My servant.
---Mark_V. on 11/26/11


Michael Part 2: All those words orginally applied to the physical nation of Israel. About 800 B.C. the Lord said through the prophet Hosea, "When Israel was a child, I love him, and out of Egypt I called My son" Israel failed to live up to its name. Now Matthew 2:14, under the inspiration of the Spirit Joseph, Mary and Jesus remained in Egypt "until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying "Out of Egypt have I called my son" Matthew was quoting Hosea 11:1,2. which in the historical context, referred to the nation of Israel, yet the very first Gospel writer picks up this text and declares it "fulfilled" in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 11/26/11


Mark, Has The Church Replaced Israel?

---michael_e on 11/24/11


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Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Romans 11:17 some of the branches be broken off, ... because of unbelief they were broken off..if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Only TWO trees: Those of belief and those of unbelief. The unbelieving Jews are thus no different than an unbelieving gentile. And a believing gentile no different than a believing jew
---francis on 11/25/11


Michael, in Eph. 2:12 Paul is clear. Believing Non-Jews were "Once Gentiles" ..aliens from the commonwealth of Israel" But "now in Christ Jesus" Jews and Gentiles have become "One" When the early Jewish Church (believers in Christ) expanded into the Roman world, the question was finally raised "Is the Messiah only for us? What about the Gentiles?" Slowly, prejudice broke down. That is why they had the Jewish Council in Jeruslem (Acts 15). Paul said "By which, when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ, been revealed by the Holy Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets, that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body" Eph. 3:4-6).
---Mark_V. on 11/24/11


Michael Part 2: I'm not speaking of unbelieving Jews. They are not part of the body of Christ. Only those who believe by faith in the Messiah are part of the body of Christ. What about "all Israel will be saved?"
When Paul wrote that, he didn't mean that at some point every Jewish person would find salvation, for in the same chapter he wrote
"If by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them" (v, Rom.11:14). And again in the same chapter Paul said,
" And they (individuals Jewish people) also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in" ( v.23) There's that tiny word "if."
---Mark_V. on 11/24/11


Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So being a descendant of Abraham as far as God / Jesus is concerned is not about blood line, but about FAITH in God/ Christ
---francis on 11/24/11


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Israel ws not called to be a physical nation. Israel was called to be a spiritual nation:

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel

and the church is IT

1 Peter 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
---francis on 11/24/11


Markv you are right, according to the apostle Paul, when the risen Christ revealed to him the mystery of the grace of God beginning with the BOC there is no difference. However in "time past" until Christ called Paul, ther was a big difference Eph 2:12)
---michael_e on 11/23/11


Continuing in Romans, [25] For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, so that you will not be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, [26]and so all Israel will be saved, just as it is written,

It appears that the "church" is happening along side of Israel, making the Jews jealous until they also become believers.

That's a short speculative answer for what is a complex question.
---Rod4Him on 11/23/11


Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

You are either a branch in the good olive tree which is isarel, or of the wild olive tree

Some unbelieving Hebrews were cut off, some believing gentiles grafted in. BUT those unbelieving hebrews who were cut off, if they believe will be grafted into THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE

NO THIRD TREE
---francis on 11/22/11


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Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people,

Isaiah 49:6 I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
---francis on 11/22/11


Michael e according to the New Testament, believing Jews and believing Gentiles are now one. The two combined are "Abraham's seed" ( Galatians 3:28,29).
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are of Christ's then you are Abraham's seed. and heirs according to the promise"
There is also an Israel after the flesh (1 Cor. 10:18). That Israel is not saved for the passages teach they sacrifice to demons and not to God. So physical linage does not get anyone in, only those who are of the Seed. The spiritual Israel of God.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/11


Israel is still Israel
The Church is the Body of Christ, not the same
---michael_e on 11/22/11


Israel is the people who choose to follow GOD not just those who have a birth lineage. We are not saved by ancestory but by faith.

No faith to follow GOD means you are not of Israel.
---Samuel on 11/21/11


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Barb:
True Israel did not live up to the covenant with God. However, they did not make the covenant with Him, He made it with them. It is His covenant and He will keep His word.
When you came to know Christ as your savior there was a covenant made, the new covenant. Have you lived up to your part? Christ will keep his and it is not dependent upon our works.
---Harold on 11/21/11


//Harold on 11/18/11 For the church to replace Israel then God would have to break His covenant He made with them. If God is capable of breaking his promise then He lied to the one he made the promise too.//
Amen and amen
---michael_e on 11/21/11


Israel broke the covenant with God. God would not have left them desolate if they had obeyed Him.

Matt 23:37-39 "your house is left unto you desolate". Also read John 19:14-15 where the Jews deny their Messiah. Matt 21:43, Jesus is speaking very clearly here.

No church has replaced Israel. Jesus came to purchase a kingdom who will obey His father's commandments and listen to His testimony. Rev. 5:9, Rev. 12:17, Rev. 14:12.
---barb on 11/20/11


For the church to replace Israel then God would have to break His covenant He made with them. If God is capable of breaking his promise then He lied to the one he made the promise too. If God lies then he is not God because he just sinned. The Church is inserted in a new covenant. The church age will end but His promise to Israel is eternal, as eternal as his promise of salvation today. God will again call, use, and save those in Israel that believe on Christ. David's throne will be established in Israel from where Christ will reign.
---Harold on 11/18/11


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Too many, especially here in the UK!
---Adrian_Glasspole on 11/10/11


I beleive God has a special place in his heart for Israel and that he still remembers his covenant with them. I also believe that we are God's people under a new covenant. We have been grafted into the vine under that covenant and we have been given the right to be called children of God.
---MichelleS on 10/13/07


No, I do not believe in replacement theology. I pulled up two other blogs with scripture references.
---Raine on 10/12/07


Israel is the church ... believers in Jesus Christ our Lord n Savior. Followers of Christ.
---jana on 1/5/07


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#1 Gen. 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

In the above Scripture we see that Abraham has two seeds: "they seed as the stars of heaven and they seed as the sand of the sea." He has a heavenly seed and a earthly seed.
---Debbie on 12/26/06


#2 The Church is Abraham's heavenly seed and Israel is his earthly seed. The Church's inheritance in in the heavenlies while Israel's inheritance is on earth. The Church will be in Heaven with Christ during the Millenium and Israel will be on earth.
---Debbie on 12/26/06


Israel & the Jews will always be God's people, as well as Christians. Christians are commanded to bless Israel & the Jews. If you bless God will bless, if you curse God will curse.
---Leslie on 12/22/06


No. God has laid HIS Bride to the side for a moment and is seeking a Bride for His SON. A good peice of scripture to help you with this is Romans 11. God Bless.
---jason on 12/13/06


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I think we need to look at what the church is? it is those that believe in Jesus as the Messiah promised to Israel. the CHurch is Israel (the believing portion) and the Church that is gentile is grafted into israel through Christ. there is still an israel, the church is part of it we are always part of the history of israel (spiritually not racially). the church didn't replace Israel, but it fullfills Israel.
---Jared on 12/13/06


NO.The church HAS NOT replaced Israel.
---pkay on 12/13/06


We cannot. Reasoning being, God made a covenant with them before us and He cannot/will not nulify it.
---Rickey on 12/13/06


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