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Salvation Dependent On US

Where did the concept of salvation being dependent on you accepting and receiving Jesus come from? Aren't our instructions, as Christians, to SUBMIT & WORSHIP?

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 ---Ryan on 12/13/06
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First of all we do not become Christians unless we accept and receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior. (John 14:6) Therefore, we cannot submit and worship unless we have someone to submit to and who is worthy of worship.
---Danette on 3/8/08


It's according to the word. Romans 10:9-10. God did His part in John 3:16. It is up to us to recieve the free-gift of righteousness.
---Rickey on 6/25/07


Ryan, first of all Jesus was not speaking to the disciples only, if He had the passages I wrote would not be for them. If you go to 8:12, you will see that the Pharasees and many unbelieving Jews were around him asking Him questions. Verse 15 Jesus tell them they judge Him according to the flesh. and in verse 30 the word says, As He spoke these words, many believe in Him," But the others continued to ask questions of who He was. They still did not believe He was the Messiah and Son of God.
---lisa on 1/7/07


2. From verses 31-36, John writes the pivotal passages in understanding genuine salvation and true discipleship. verse 31 begans with those that believe in Him. The first step in the progress toward true discipleship is belief in Jesus Christ as Messiah and Son of God. The second is preserverance in obedience to Scripture, third that they are not slaves anymore, but to sin not from bondage as they presumed since they were in bondages all through their ordeals in the past.
---lisa on 1/7/07


3. That is where the subject comes to view in verses 39-42, speaking of Abrahams children. Jesus responds"Jesus said to them, If you were Abrahams children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me" Then verse 42 Jesus explains who they are and why. In the feast of the Dedication in Jerusalem, Jesus again is speaking to the unbelieving Jews. If you read those passages from verse 10:25-30, you will get the same answer to them that He had already told the
---lisa on 1/7/07




4. unbelieving Jews. He had no problem with the one's that had believed, but the one's that didn't. In verse 26 Jesus explains again why they don't believe, "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear my voice." He clearly explains that those who hear or the one's that believe, and those are His sheep. The lost, the one's that are asking the questions, How long do you keep us in doubt? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly,"
---lisa on 1/7/07


5. Those are the one's that don't believe and are in doubt. So to explain to you, that people lost don't belief unless they are already His sheep. So to say that we believe before we belong to Him, is not true at all. We believe because we are saved. We don't believe in order to be saved. We love Christ, because He first loved us. Otherwise we have emnity against Him. A lost person is dead to the things of God and is unable to wake himself up to make a commitment to God.
---lisa on 1/7/07


Sheila, if you notice when Jesus was speaking to the Jews, He was doing almost what we do when we bring the gospel to the lost. He was in the flesh, and did so many thing, those people witnessed Him physically, and many of those, as verse 8:30 says, believed as Jesus witnessed to them. The same holds true when we spread the Gospel of Christ, He is present through the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit gives life, grants the repentance and faith to believe in His truth.
---lisa on 1/7/07


#2. Yes, to your question Sheila, the one's that are spoken to in John 8:12 through 59, were unbelieving Jews but many of them did come to believe in Him, yet the others didn't and Jesus told them why they didn't believe in Him.
---lisa on 1/7/07


lisa, I don't understand your take on the unbelieving Jew not being one of God's sheep. Are you talking about the Jew that doesn't believe in Jesus,....yet?
---Shiela on 1/6/07




Eloy, you have to be His sheep first in order to believe in Him, hear Him, see Him, understand Him, and follow Him. Otherwise the person is lost and heading right to hell, that is if you believe in Hell. Some here don't. Some of them believe He was created, and some believe it even takes their works to make it in, so nothing surprises me."But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."
---lisa on 1/6/07


#2. Clearly Jesus states that the reason the unbelieving Jews don't believe is because they are not of His sheep. They have to be His sheep in order to believe, hear His voice and follow Him. No unbeliever has faith before he is one of His sheep. Why? they are of their father the devil and have emnity against Christ. They have to belong to God, in order to believe and love Christ, and then they will follow Him.
---lisa on 1/6/07


#1 lisa, you reference John 8:42-47, who was Christ speaking to in this passage? His disciples! Everyone is born a child of wrath, evryone is born in the flesh subject to the father of lies, this includes you me and all humanity. You must be called by the Father. John 6:65 says none come to the Son unless it is granted by the Father. You do not initiate the relationship Romans 9:16 says it does not depend on the man who wills.
---Ryan on 1/6/07


#2 lisa, It is not our choice to receive salvation, to say so is to usurp the sovereign authority of God. It is the Fathers choice to grant you salvation. Not your choice to demand salvation from the Father. This is one of the most widely misunderstood concepts withn the body. This doctrine that says it is your 'free will' to choose Christ is completely unscriptural and is building on a foundation of sand.
---Ryan on 1/6/07


#3 lisa, If the Father does not call you to the Son than you will not have access to salvation; Many are CALLED few are chosen
---Ryan on 1/6/07


lisa, you say "Now if you are saying that God calls you, and you are still dead to the things of God, how can you hear his calling?"

Are you limiting God's sovereign power to call out the Bride for His Son? It certainly appears this way. Saul, who became Paul, was filled with enmity to Christ, did this stop God from being able to call him? Be careful not to put God in your humanisitc box.
---Ryan on 1/6/07


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Lisa & Ryan ... Again I put in my pennyworth. Although I have said this elsewhere many times, it is necessary, because you continue to put forward your views that we are puppets with no choice.
Any gift can be refused. God does not immpose salvation upon anyone. If He did so, it would not be a gift.
Your version of God plays with the lives and fates of men, just as a cruel boy decides which butterflies he will pull the wings off.
---alanUKquent64534 on 1/6/07


3. Now if you are saying that God calls you, and you are still dead to the things of God, how can you hear his calling? How can you understand anything if you are dead? Not possible either. When God calls you, you do come to life or else you will never hear or see God in order to follow Him. When Lazuras answered the calling of Christ, he woke up and followed Christ calling.
---lisa on 1/6/07


Ryan, I believe you are wrong. The lost don't seek God. They don't ask for Christ, They don't have faith Ryan before they are born of the Spirit. They are children of the devil. They cannot believe in Christ before they are regenerated. Please read John 8:42-47, and from Jesus words you will see what the reasons are why those didn't believe. They were of their father the devil and could not seek, look for, or even have a love for Christ before they are saved.
---lisa on 1/6/07


2. What you are saying is that God calls you first, in that case in order for you to see and hear God's calling you would have to be alive spiritually. If you are alive spiritually, you must be born of the spirit to be alive. So if you are alive spiritually, how can you reject the calling? How can a person that is born of the Spirit that believes by faith, reject what he believes? He already has faith, how does he get rit of the faith in order to answer no to God? Not possible.
---lisa on 1/6/07


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3. Now if you are saying that God calls you, and you are still dead to the things of God, how can you hear his calling? How can you understand anything if you are dead? Not possible either. When God calls you, you do come to life or else you will never hear or see God in order to follow Him. When Lazuras answered the calling of Christ, he woke up and followed Christ calling.
---lisa on 1/6/07


Phyllis, how can a heart conceived and born in sin; a heart of stone, a heart that is in enmity to God desire righteousness. I do not disagree that salvation is a gift but if the Father does not present it to you than you have no right to take it.
---Ryan on 1/5/07


From Jesus himself: "For if you all believe not that I am, you all will die in your sins."
---Eloy on 1/5/07


When someone gives you a gift, you have to accept it and then it is yours. Y'shua (Jesus) gave us the gift of salvaton by the shedding of his blood on the execution stake. He was buried, rose again and now sits at the right hand of the Father. Unless we accept that gift of salvation so dearly paid for, we cannot be saved. You have to believe first before you can even think about worshipping and that has to come from your heart.
---Phyllis on 1/5/07


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#1 Elder, I believe you are missing my point. So many evangelists today ask, "Are you ready to accept Jesus as your personal savior and accept Him into your heart today?" or some variation thereof. The problem is your will has nothing to do with getting saved, Romans 9:16. Only those called by the Father are granted access to the Son, John 6:65.
---Ryan on 1/5/07


#2 Elder, So the accurate question is, "Is God calling you?" The relationship is initiated byt he Father not by you. Once the Father has proposed His Son to you than you will either reject or accept. But you cannot accept on your terms it is not initiated by you. The scriptures say aske, seek and knock; not accept, seek and knock. Don't skip steps you cannot go to the accepting part if you have not been called. And it is dangerous to assume everyone is called.
---Ryan on 1/5/07


Ryan how could anyone get Saved if they don't accept what God offers? You might be able to ask Cain, Judas, Diotrephes, Alexander the Coppersmith and others the same question if you continue on with your skeptic attitude.
The last bird I saw with his head buried in the sand got run over by a Dune Buggy.
---Elder on 1/5/07


#1 God has given each of a a free will. John 3:16 says "whosoever." Obedience is better than sacrifice because God wants us to be obedient out of our love for Him rather than being forced. If you notice, there are many many "let", "if", etc. Which indicates that we have a choice even after salvation has occured.
---Debbie on 1/5/07


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#2 That is why there are some Christians that are more mature than others and seem to be more blessed than others, because they have "let" instead of "not letting" God. God does not force us to do anything, including getting saved. God gives the us the faith and the grace, but it is still up to each individual to accept His grace and be saved. There are many that are brought to that place of decision and still reject Christ, which will send them to hell.
---Debbie on 1/5/07


#3 God does not wish for any to perish, but He leaves the decision up to us. Each born again Christian is pre-destined, but only in the New Creation, that predestination doesn't come into play until after we have accepted Christ as Savior and have been born again.
---Debbie on 1/5/07


We don't supply the faith, God gives us the faith to believe, through grace. It is faith that holds the believer to Christ. Anything of yourself is sin, for it does not bring glory to Christ but to you. We do all works through Christ who strengthen us. The works we do is only because of Him in our lives. Otherwise they are sin. Anything not of faith in Christ is sin.
---lisa on 1/5/07


2. But you have to believe it by faith. Works of righteousness not of the Lord or your own works and bring glory only to you. Works of righteousness of Christ brings glory to Christ. Anyone preaching self-righteouness is in sin. No Christian should ever believe he is saved because of himself.
---lisa on 1/5/07


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2. They all backslided by rejecting Christ. "Then Jesus said to them, "All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written." Made to stumble translates to "fall away." refers to the disciples temporary falling from their loyalty to Jesus, quoted from Zech. 13:7. Did that send them to hell? No, and the reason Why? Because Jesus promise to meet the disciples in His post-resurrection 16:7; Matthew 28:16,17.
---lisa on 1/5/07


Phi 2:12-13 ESV Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, (13) for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

These verses clearly show that while we are saved by grace alone, WE must cooperate with that grace. I.E., we must do 'righteous works' (James 2) to maintain our salvation.
---scott on 1/5/07


it comes directly from GOD.written in the bible,called the new testament is the story of jesus and why he died for us.please.I post question everyday and none are put up.this is a NO BRAINER RYAN.
---tom2 on 12/31/06


As CHRISTIANS, "yes" we are to submit & worship - but you have to be a Christian first. In order to do that, it can ONLY be done through salvation, which is provided through the death and resurrection of Christ, so state many verses of Scripture. God provides the grace, and we supply the faith. Without faith, you can't submit and/or worship correctly.
---wivv on 12/16/06


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Danette, Ricky & Jim say it all. How can you submit and worship before you are saved? Is that what you're saying? You're question is very convaluscent (? spelling). The "concept of salvation" came from God. Accepting and receiving Jesus came from God also. Paul said, "if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved." It says nothing here about submitting and worshipping, that comes after you are saved.
---Donna9759 on 12/14/06


John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
---JIM on 12/14/06


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